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***Official*** Green Bay Packers Offseason Thread, v. 2014 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter smackdaddies
- Start date
Balco
Footballguy
How so? I watch the games, as I am sure you do. Pro Football Focus had him as the 42nd best ILB out of 53 qualifiers. On a horrific defense he was the second worst player according to PFF. That is competent to you? I am sorry I want a little more out of our defense. And the sad thing is, it won't take much to be an improvement over AJ Hawk.sho nuff said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Hawk is not an asset. He's a liability on almost every single play. Coverage, run stuffing, pass rushing. He fails miserably at all of these things. No wiggle. No instincts. He's a strong tackler once he gets his hands on the right guy. That's about all I can muster for him. He's Bernardo Harris.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I dont base my opinion of him off one year when the whole defense sucked...nor off of one website's ranking.Id find someone to go next to him...but feel he is plenty competent as a player and leader.
Pipes
Footballguy
Put me in the camp of disliking AJ Hawk. While I don't think he sucks to me he's been a huge dissapointment considering he was a top 5 pick. I think he's just another guy out there. He's not terrible but I don't think he's that good either. While I'd love to see him replaced that's about 4th or 5th on my list after Safety, DT, and another outside pass rushers is addressed. TE and additional OL help is needed too so I'm certain, for better or worse, we'll be seeing AJ Hawk making tackles, 5+ yards downfield, again in 2014 for the green and gold.
Balco
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah Hawk isn't going anywhere most likely until Mike and Ted can find a better player. They won't cut bait on him for the sake of saving cap space and they don't have a worthy replacement. I thought Bishop might be that guy. I'll tell you what though, Ted and Mike need to start hitting on some of these draft picks. They have whiffed repeatedly since snagging Raji and Matthews. Call it injuries or lack of development but these guys just continually throw mediocre players out there. I mean taking Datone Jones over Kiko Alonso or even Manti Te'o was another whiff most likely. They let Bobby Wagner slide past them and grabbed Nick Perry instead. Then following that up with Jerel Worthy over Lavonte David. They just keep picking the wrong guy and it shows in the win column. Hopefully they can reverse that trend.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Many Packer faithful looking to cut Hawk and I agree with them. Kiko would have been a huge pick for the Pack.
As much as the LBs need replacing, the DL is worse. So frustrating to watch other teams dominate the LOS. It is way too easy to run on the Packers. Time for Ted to grab some big time free agents to fill DL needs. He has the budget and now we need to see him close deals this week.
As much as the LBs need replacing, the DL is worse. So frustrating to watch other teams dominate the LOS. It is way too easy to run on the Packers. Time for Ted to grab some big time free agents to fill DL needs. He has the budget and now we need to see him close deals this week.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
We all know that isn't going to happen sadly. I've been a big Ted supporter but this defense is getting to Sherman'esque levels of talent. Cupboards are bare. If Ted hadn't hit on Rodgers, this team would be the Lions.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
Nobody. But it was people imply when they make statements like he is a bum and has no business on the packers
Facts
AJ calls the defense on the field, and does an excellent job of it. That is not just a job anyone can do.
Hawk is a good middle linebacker skill wise. Not great
Outside of picket, Mathews and Williams, the packers have no great defensive players. Raji is above average (down 2013), shields has the best speed and upside, but still has needs in skill development, hayword is returning from i jury the rest of the team is no better than Hawk
4 Dline are free agents. You really want to cut your field general and also have to fill that spot?
Complaining about hawk and ignoring the fact the Packers have no Dline starters, terrible safeties, shallow linebacker depth in a d that starts four, and only three good corners is stupid
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Albert Haynesworth, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, free agents as often as not, or more often than not, are not worth the price od acquisition. Winning March, like winning August does not interest me. I want to win in early February and that is done by showing restraint in March.
Fans remember the plays guys made two, three, and more years ago and figure they want that highlight play from a couple of years ago. The problem is that was a couple of years ago and was the highlight play. Fans forget the lowlight plays and the play from just the last year, which, in free agency, is likely the ceiling one can expect from a guy going forward. If it wasn't the guy would have never made it to free agency. His club would have already locked him up.
Fans remember the plays guys made two, three, and more years ago and figure they want that highlight play from a couple of years ago. The problem is that was a couple of years ago and was the highlight play. Fans forget the lowlight plays and the play from just the last year, which, in free agency, is likely the ceiling one can expect from a guy going forward. If it wasn't the guy would have never made it to free agency. His club would have already locked him up.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
AJ calls the defense. True. The defense sucked last year with guys out of position all the time. Also True.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree with that. However the Packers have bare cupboards on defense. If you don't go after FA and whiff on the draft picks, you get what we had last year which was a turnstile of a d.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I don't believe the cupboards are bare. I believe they are stocked with talented, injured guys. I'm not sure we could get another injured guy in those cupboards unless we expand the kitchen.
Balco
Footballguy
1. Not really sure how to respond to that. The Packers D was horrid.
2. Hawk is not a good middle linebacker.
3. Mathews is the only great defensive player out of those guys you mentioned. I want them to re-sign Pickett because he will come cheap, and I think he can be effective with a reduction in snaps. Raji is not above average. He is a rotational lineman.
4. Yes, I want AJ Hawk cut, he is not a field general and is easily replaceable. We are talking about a terrible linebacker here.
5. Who is complaining about Hawk and ignoring the other defensive areas? Re read the thread if you are referring to me. I have been begging for the Packers to address the front 7.
This defense needs changes. Signing a cb for 10 mil per, and going with a horrid MLB for another year are poor starts to the offseason.
Balco
Footballguy
I think the Packers need to be wise with their money, and they haven't been thus far. This team does not need to throw 30 mil guaranteed at a Jarius Byrd, Darrelle Revis, or Brian Orakpo. They also shouldn't have tossed that contract to Sam Shields.
They need to sign solid system guys that know their role within a defense. If they decided to spend decent money on one player,I would want it to be on guys like Arthur Jones or Lamarr Houston. We don't need a NT who can play all 3 downs. We need a couple NT's that can be rotated in who take up blocks to free up others. We need a couple D Ends who can hold the edge and free up OLBs. We need Inside Linebackers who maintain their responsibilities and can wrap someone up. This does not mean it will be expensive to get these guys.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I would want my GM and Coach fired if they were putting incompetent players in the field and starting them.
I would think that is common sense to think our coaches and GM shouldn't be putting incompetent players out there.
So if someone really thinks Hawk is incompetent...our coaches and GM should be canned immediately because they too would be incompetent.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agree on Jones and Houston...Antonio Smith as well.
I think the Packers have interest...but with the rising cap, many teams do and will overpay. Ted won't overpay.
We have to hope these players can get into GB early and want to play for the Packers because they will likely get offered more elsewhere.
We need a vet up front.
Pickett...even cheap...would be a waste of a move. His legs are done. I just don't think he has anything left in the tank.
You have to get guys like Houston or so on that are on the verge of breaking out (or you think are on that verge and still have most of their best football even ahead of them. It is why I think the Shields signing was a good one. I think he still has even better football ahead of him...and sometimes you have to pay a bit more to keep that on your team.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
There is scheme (capers), onfield adjustment (Hawk) and execution (individual players)
You get ####tty execution when you have bad or young players screwing up assignments. Pretty much what th Packers had by the end of the season.
smackdaddies
Footballguy
Jamari Lattimore had received the low tender of $1.431 million, which means the Packers have the right to match any offer he might receive. Because it's the low tender and Lattimore was not drafted, there would be no compensation if the Packers did not match an offer.
Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html#ixzz2vgQTNEWU%C2'>
Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html#ixzz2vgQTNEWU%C2'>
strykerpks
Footballguy
Looks like we can forget about Lamarr Houston. He went to the Bears 5/$35
sho nuff
Footballguy
He and Jones both went quick. (Jones got something like $16 mil guaranteed and an average of $6.6mil)
Antoine Smith? Though, looks like there is quite a bit of interest in him.
What kind of deal will Woodley get now that he is being released? Missed a lot of time the past 2 seasons...would that make him more of a TT type of guy that would be cheaper? Or will his name still bring big $$$?
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree with that. But injured players don't win games for you. They need guys that can play football on Sundays.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
I am glad we resigned Shields, he has graded out well the last two years on PFF, he is not a great run stopper but a very good cover cb. If the Pack had any semblance of a pass rush he would look even better, NO corners can cover forever. We need a safety that can cover (Hyde) and some help on the dline and a guy opposite of Clay that can rush the passer. Just mho.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
I was really hoping we would jump on Houston, yes, I did know better, but I was still hopeful. Of course he ends up on the Bears instead. Yippeee
Balco
Footballguy
I think Woodley will still sign a nice contract. When healthy and motivated, he is a fantastic player.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Just hoping that last 2.5 years of injuries keeps people away or scares someone from spending a lot and brings him into TT's range.
Balco
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I agree that occasionally there are bargains in free agency. I just do not understand how so many are so much for diving headlong into what is 9 times out of 10 a quagmire from which recovery often takes years. (I do not place you in the class of those who do not understand this dynamic, not remotley.)
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Let's go back and find all those posts calling the Packers stupid for not signing Steven Jackson.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Here is my take on the stated reason Hawk has a job. The Packers say he is excellent in lining up the defense. O.K., maybe he is the best ever at this. My questions though are as follows.
1. Don't pros know where to line up, and if they don't isn't that an indictment of the entire coaching staff? Should this really be that important? why can't they get their guys lined up, is the system too complex, and if so is that holding them back, keeping them from playing reflexively? Too much thinking is a bad thing, at least for most athletes.
2. Presuming this lining up the defense thing is so damn important, shouldn't the coaches be coaching several guys to do it just in case Hawk goes down to injury? If that is the case he is not the only one who can do this. If they can't teach someone to do this important thing well over an offseason though countless repetition then isn't that an indictment of the coaches?
In other words I call B.S. on everything the Packers have said on this subject.
1. Don't pros know where to line up, and if they don't isn't that an indictment of the entire coaching staff? Should this really be that important? why can't they get their guys lined up, is the system too complex, and if so is that holding them back, keeping them from playing reflexively? Too much thinking is a bad thing, at least for most athletes.
2. Presuming this lining up the defense thing is so damn important, shouldn't the coaches be coaching several guys to do it just in case Hawk goes down to injury? If that is the case he is not the only one who can do this. If they can't teach someone to do this important thing well over an offseason though countless repetition then isn't that an indictment of the coaches?
In other words I call B.S. on everything the Packers have said on this subject.
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The Claymaker
Footballguy
Hawk has never been more than an average talent, anyone who watches him play every week knows this already. Personally the bigger joke was paying Jones as he is even worse and we are probably stuck with this clown for the next few years. I think egos play a part in this, some of these big wigs don't seem to be able to admit/cut a mistake.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Dissapointing the Pack did not spend any money today. Blah
sho nuff
Footballguy
Again...how is it disappointing?
It would be disappointing if anyone really expected them to.
Here is the tip again...don't ever sit watching the first day expecting Ted Thompson to pay the 1st day prices.
He will not get involved in early free agency. EVER.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
He paid 1st day prices last week for no reason and has tons of cap space. Ohh yeah, the d sucks too. So i disagree with you now and the last few pages of this thread.
sho nuff
Footballguy
For no reason?
Seemed it was to keep a player of his own. Which history shows he will do.
Unlike the first day of free agency which he has shown over and over again he won't do.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Newsflash: the d sucks. No reason to keep/pay his own. I am not talking about history. I am talking about putting the most talent on the field.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Keeping Shields is a way of keeping talent on the field.
Letting him go would have created another hole in an already poor defense.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Overpaying for Shields was a mistake. I would have much rather had a good pass rusher like Ware. Defense sucks and it's time to reboot. The don't have a player outside of Matthews who could start for either Sf or Seattle on d.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Surprised no Packers were injured yesterday with all the movement.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Ware will cost far more than Shields and is 32 years old.
Seems they paid Shields right in line with the market price for a player of his age and talent.
If he sits back and does nothing through all of free agency...I will agree with you. But unlike some of you, Im not going to overreact to him not doing anything on day one.
Pipes
Footballguy
Yeah Ward is the only player that signed yesterday that had me kind of pissed off at Ted. 5 million per for a solid safety who's young and is a big hitter. That's exactly what this defense needs.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Seems like a screwup everywhere or Ward was convinced to take less. Ward may have underestimated the market for him and Ted may have overestimated it and never got involved.
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