***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (5 Viewers)

[sporthenry]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Does it matter? I feel like this is/should be a never ending job. What do we tell the parents of the shooting? That it was just unlucky? That shootings are down so our work here is done? The stats that the odds of being in a mass shooting are equal to being struck by lightning doesn't really comfort me if I know there is something that can be done to stop either.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Does it matter? I feel like this is/should be a never ending job. What do we tell the parents of the shooting? That it was just unlucky? That shootings are down so our work here is done? The stats that the odds of being in a mass shooting are equal to being struck by lightning doesn't really comfort me if I know there is something that can be done to stop either.

Of course it matters. If there's a strong correlation between drop in gun ownership and drop in mass killings, it suggests that those of us trying to ban some types of guns may be standing on good ground.

 

[MaxThreshold]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

I see what you did. Care to back THAT up with data? Because gun ownership is higher than ever in the US.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

I see what you did. Care to back THAT up with data? Because gun ownership is higher than ever in the US.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/Sure. See number 7f above. Gun ownership as a percentage of households is way down.

 

[MaxThreshold]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Does it matter? I feel like this is/should be a never ending job. What do we tell the parents of the shooting? That it was just unlucky? That shootings are down so our work here is done? The stats that the odds of being in a mass shooting are equal to being struck by lightning doesn't really comfort me if I know there is something that can be done to stop either.

Of course it matters. If there's a strong correlation between drop in gun ownership and drop in mass killings, it suggests that those of us trying to ban some types of guns may be standing on good ground.

But you're not.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Guess what? Those of us who are willing to work to make this country a safer place will try to do so without either your help or the help of the extremists on the other side who want to ban all guns. You and them can go off in your own little corner and have your own little imaginary war. The rest of us will try to deal with real issues and responsible changes to the law.

You want to make this country a safer place then deal with REAL ISSUES. This is a country that lusts after violence thanks to Hollyweird, porn and rotten video games. You fall in the camp of those that eat up every lying word from a media drenched with deception. You are willing to toss aside your freedom and trust lying despots. Goverment doesn't compromise. Compromise is a lose-lose situation. You call yourself an American you have everything to lose. Despot politicians have everything to gain. You want to deal w real issues- throw your TV out and quit buying the lies from the media and the government.

Some of us appreciate your Manifesto. Dont let the haters get you down.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Does it matter? I feel like this is/should be a never ending job. What do we tell the parents of the shooting? That it was just unlucky? That shootings are down so our work here is done? The stats that the odds of being in a mass shooting are equal to being struck by lightning doesn't really comfort me if I know there is something that can be done to stop either.

Of course it matters. If there's a strong correlation between drop in gun ownership and drop in mass killings, it suggests that those of us trying to ban some types of guns may be standing on good ground.

But you're not.

Nope. More guns in less hands. Many fewer households have guns now. Percentagewise.

 

[sporthenry]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Does it matter? I feel like this is/should be a never ending job. What do we tell the parents of the shooting? That it was just unlucky? That shootings are down so our work here is done? The stats that the odds of being in a mass shooting are equal to being struck by lightning doesn't really comfort me if I know there is something that can be done to stop either.

Of course it matters. If there's a strong correlation between drop in gun ownership and drop in mass killings, it suggests that those of us trying to ban some types of guns may be standing on good ground.

I agree with your premise. I was more responding to Max with his false equivalencies. These people want to down play these incidences b/c they don't happen often. Quite frankly, that isn't a good enough answer but the stats won't ever be good enough with the whole correlation doesn't involve causation. Heck, they'll always bring up Chicago or DC or South Dakota if you want to go with stats or they'll go with the car analogy. Once you get past the whole absurdity of the car analogy such as the inherent value that cars provide us, it still doesn't work. We are constantly working to make cars safer. We have higher safety standards, mandatory seat belts, are working on technology for cars to drive themselves. What are we doing to make guns or gun violence less prevalent? Nothing? They don't want any restrictions and then bring up, are we going to ban cars? No, but we are going to work to make them less lethal just like at the very least we should with guns.

 

[tommyboy]

We should be like England, they got it right.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

 

[Bonezerelli]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

We may need some more sources. Your source is also quite right wing and pro-gun.

I'm not hear to get in a pissing contest, but this article says quite the opposite. Written by the CBC, a source outside of the U.S., it states there have been 16 mass shootings in the US this year alone.

"What's taken hold here in America is lunacy. There have been 16 mass shootings in the U.S. just this year alone, leaving 88 people dead. It's the new normal."

Link

Saying this: The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning may be the most idiotic reason for not advocating gun control. Heck, the chances me being struck by lightning are about the same as me being struck by lightning, but that doesn't mean I walk around with a metal pole.

Whatever...the solution is just so simple, this is what is so infuriating. But it's your country and if you think drastic change is not needed, wait until someone ups this last tragedy. What then? Maybe arm everyone to give everyone a fighting chance?

 

[Power Monster]

Guess what? Those of us who are willing to work to make this country a safer place will try to do so without either your help or the help of the extremists on the other side who want to ban all guns. You and them can go off in your own little corner and have your own little imaginary war. The rest of us will try to deal with real issues and responsible changes to the law.

You want to make this country a safer place then deal with REAL ISSUES. This is a country that lusts after violence thanks to Hollyweird, porn and rotten video games. You fall in the camp of those that eat up every lying word from a media drenched with deception. You are willing to toss aside your freedom and trust lying despots. Goverment doesn't compromise. Compromise is a lose-lose situation. You call yourself an American you have everything to lose. Despot politicians have everything to gain. You want to deal w real issues- throw your TV out and quit buying the lies from the media and the government.

Some of us appreciate your Manifesto. Dont let the haters get you down.

The haters will never get me down. They just need to see the root cause of issues. I have no ill will towards anyone that has goodness and decency in their heart.

 

[timschochet]

I rarely if ever agree with Max Threshold, and he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on this issue.

But he's right, mass shootings are down in this country. It's important to remember this when we discuss this subject. Facts are facts: in the end, what happened on Friday was anecdotal,. and NOT representative of gun violence in our country, most of which takes place in the inner city.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I rarely if ever agree with Max Threshold, and he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on this issue. But he's right, mass shootings are down in this country. It's important to remember this when we discuss this subject. Facts are facts: in the end, what happened on Friday was anecdotal,. and NOT representative of gun violence in our country, most of which takes place in the inner city.

You and I are more alike than you care to admit. I find myself agreeing with you about 70 to 85.3 percent of the time.

 

[parasaurolophus]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

I see what you did. Care to back THAT up with data? Because gun ownership is higher than ever in the US.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/Sure. See number 7f above. Gun ownership as a percentage of households is way down.

he is referencing the total number of mass killings, not as a % of the population. You are using a stat that is based on percentage of population.Not exactly apples to apples.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

I see what you did. Care to back THAT up with data? Because gun ownership is higher than ever in the US.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/Sure. See number 7f above. Gun ownership as a percentage of households is way down.

he is referencing the total number of mass killings, not as a % of the population. You are using a stat that is based on percentage of population.Not exactly apples to apples.

Neither is total number of guns, especially when people have 5, 10, or more guns in a household.

 

[sporthenry]

I rarely if ever agree with Max Threshold, and he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on this issue. But he's right, mass shootings are down in this country. It's important to remember this when we discuss this subject. Facts are facts: in the end, what happened on Friday was anecdotal,. and NOT representative of gun violence in our country, most of which takes place in the inner city.

Car deaths are also at the lowest rate since the 20's. So are we done trying to stop them? Do we not have more strict laws for traffic safety than previously? And the other thing people don't take into account is the traumatic effect that these have on our society. Much like 9/11, I suspect this will have a chilling effect for the rest of our lives. So similar to the extreme effort to make sure terrorists never get to airplanes, we have to do something similar to stop these mass shootings. Terrorists could much more easily kill people on a bus or a train but they want the psychological effect of the airplane.

 

[Otis]

I'll grant that but let’s key our eye on the target. It's the guy pulling the trigger. We are all just burying our heads in the sand if we believe making guns harder to get is going to solve this problem. These people will continue to find ways to get guns if they are determined enough. We need to get to the root of the problem and focus on the mental health in this country. I’m sure there were warning signs from this guy. It seems there always are, yet they are tragically ignored.

Another strawman. Nobody is saying that getting rid of guns will, "solve the problem." People are saying that it might make the problem better. It might not matter in these arguments terms if it was 20 kids killed that day or 2, but it matters to someone.You will always have crazies. The question is how big of a weapon are you going to make it easy for them to get.

It matters to me. As a parent I felt like I was kicked in the nuts when I first heard what happened. I am heartbroken for those people. I want to see something done too. I just don't want to see a knee jerk reaction from gun control advocates that try to take this too far. I also don't want to see what I and many others perceive to be the real issue here of mental illness brushed aside.

Why is everyone so terrified of the gun control advocates "taking this too far"? What are you afraid of? Obama quartering marines in your living room? Making you watch liberal TV programs?? I don't get the paranoia and terror over this "going too far."To me, the scarier end of the spectrum of "going too far" is crazies with bushmasters slaughtering women and children mercilessly. What am I missing?

 

[MaxThreshold]

I'll grant that but let's key our eye on the target. It's the guy pulling the trigger. We are all just burying our heads in the sand if we believe making guns harder to get is going to solve this problem. These people will continue to find ways to get guns if they are determined enough. We need to get to the root of the problem and focus on the mental health in this country. I'm sure there were warning signs from this guy. It seems there always are, yet they are tragically ignored.

Another strawman. Nobody is saying that getting rid of guns will, "solve the problem." People are saying that it might make the problem better. It might not matter in these arguments terms if it was 20 kids killed that day or 2, but it matters to someone.You will always have crazies. The question is how big of a weapon are you going to make it easy for them to get.

It matters to me. As a parent I felt like I was kicked in the nuts when I first heard what happened. I am heartbroken for those people. I want to see something done too. I just don't want to see a knee jerk reaction from gun control advocates that try to take this too far. I also don't want to see what I and many others perceive to be the real issue here of mental illness brushed aside.

Why is everyone so terrified of the gun control advocates "taking this too far"? What are you afraid of? Obama quartering marines in your living room? Making you watch liberal TV programs?? I don't get the paranoia and terror over this "going too far."To me, the scarier end of the spectrum of "going too far" is crazies with bushmasters slaughtering women and children mercilessly. What am I missing?

Oh, boy, this post is rich. You offer an extreme position of banning guns and then have the audacity to say, "Geez, I don't know why you guys think we are taking this too far". And just for good measure:

 

[Apple Jack]

"Gun violence since 1968 has killed more Americans than all the wars in all of U.S. history combined."

Link

I just can't understand how one can rationalize the solution to your horrible gun violence problem....is more guns. Even your average 3rd grader is taught that when something is not safe, is a problem, is scary or unhealthy, the best thing to do is avoid it.

Yet, we now have wahoos saying teachers should be armed.

Is it really about the outdated 2nd amendment? I just can't believe the forefathers had this horrible situation in mind as something gun enthusiasts should hitch their wagon to when arguing "pro-gun"

But then again, I don't live in a gun culture society, so I can't speak to it. What I can speak of is how you're being viewed by the outside.

As this great article says..."America seems to be the place the whole world thinks of when apparently ordinary people use guns for grotesque acts of violence."

2nd LInk

I have a lot of respect for the fortitude of American culture. One aspect of it I saw was after 9/11. As a Canadian, I was impressed with the good acts I read of, the kindness and strength of character particularly of New Yorkers. I must say, I was impressed.

Americans will have to dig deep here. Can you critically look at your own Constitution and ask yourself that hard question, that maybe as the country has changed, perhaps it too needs revision? Or has it become too sacred, to sacrileges to even consider? This is what I think your greatest challenge is.

But I don't think it will happen. The greatest gift Obama and you all could give your children is a society more free of violence. Do you think if you ask a 7 year old if they would prefer a world without guns, or a world where they are allowed to carry guns they would even hesitate to answer properly?

I just don't understand some of you.

Yeah, I stopped after this gem: "Mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather.". In reality, mass killings are actually down. This article is nothing but a knee jerk reaction.

Can you share the data you have on that? Been looking for specifically this information.

Still looking for the data on the original claim that "mass killings occur with the frequency of changes in the weather". Here, read mine.

I'm not playing any games. I'm absolutely certain you're right that mass killings have gone down significantly in the last couple decades as gun ownership has decreased significantly.

We may need some more sources. Your source is also quite right wing and pro-gun.

I'm not hear to get in a pissing contest, but this article says quite the opposite. Written by the CBC, a source outside of the U.S., it states there have been 16 mass shootings in the US this year alone.

"What's taken hold here in America is lunacy. There have been 16 mass shootings in the U.S. just this year alone, leaving 88 people dead. It's the new normal."

Link

Saying this: The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning may be the most idiotic reason for not advocating gun control. Heck, the chances me being struck by lightning are about the same as me being struck by lightning, but that doesn't mean I walk around with a metal pole.

Whatever...the solution is just so simple, this is what is so infuriating. But it's your country and if you think drastic change is not needed, wait until someone ups this last tragedy. What then? Maybe arm everyone to give everyone a fighting chance?

These are hardly our best and brightest; please don't give them any ideas.

 

[Nipsey]

America's Coach weighs in:

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

Maybe not, I think BGP lives in a video game world, this Power Monster clearly does not.

 

[Apple Jack]

America's Coach weighs in:https://twitter.com/PSBasketball/status/280869657160863744

Gotta love the goobers telling him to "stick with what you know" as if these half-wits have any idea what the conversation is actually about.

 

[Ranethe]

I am convinced that I need to buy a gun after reading the liberal rhetoric in this thread. People can believe anything they want but the main stream media propaganda is just sickening. The media in this country needs to go. It is a curse on a free socity. You want to see another civil war? Start taking away the 2nd amendment. The founders were SPOT on when they instructed Americans that the right to bear arms shall NOT be infringed upon. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone with a lick of sense would give this government any trust to protect your rights. You want to go live in a society without a 2nd amendment, you have plenty of choices. You think the events of last Friday are tragic? What about the millions of children that have been aborted? What about the filthy process of late term abortions? Where is the outrage for that blood shedding? I am sick to my stomach as to what has happened to these children. I am in a mode of depression over the death of these innocent children that lost their lives this past Friday. The media blames the guns BUT what about the state of the individual pulling the trigger? How does an individual kill children without mercy? What is the root cause of such EVIL? People go after the guns but what about the filth on TV? The violence in movies and video games? The manner in which people treat each other? The NFL? The MMA? The drones that kill innocent children? The war machines that destroy women and children in the name of stopping terror? We have become a society in LOVE with violence. You give a child a life influenced by violence from the filthy media and then beat people up for 8 plus years about how bleak and depressing our economy is- what do people think is going to happen to these kids? You are willing to toss away your right to defend yourself and trust government because the media is teaching our society about being filthy, violent, porn loving and unmoralistic? People want to talk about the source of the issue- the root cause- let's start with the filthy media and a power grabbing lying government.

Got any more where this came from?

Some serious crazy here. Especially love the part about how the media in this country is a curse on a free society. Just one nugget of goodness in a veritable gold mine.It's people like this that persuade me even more that guns need to be regulated more tightly. This guy and guns would be a scary combination.

No real crazy is being deceived by a lying media. You buy this nonsense that the media feeds? I sense a real danger with folks like yourself calling everyone who you disagree with- "crazy". What is crazy is suggesting that Americans should violate their second amendment right. What is crazy is absorbing the filthy violence from the media instead of recognizing that violence as being a true curse on Americans. What is crazy is ignoring the lust for violence and America's obsession with violence. What is crazy is accepting your never ending spoon fed drivel of lies and mind molding. Wars! Violent video games! Gangsta Rap! Violent movies! MMA! WWE! Porn! Legal drugs! Illegal Drugs! Tony Soprano! Fight Club! I recall your rhetoric Ranethe! You kiss the ring of lying despots. You think these filthy tools of the media and hollyweird do not have an impact on young minds? You are deceived. Evil is a devil that kills children without mercy. Evil is a pervert that rapes boys and then uses his good old boy network to cover it up. Evil is millions of aborted children especially late term abortions where a child is snuffed out in a tragic process. These are root causes for how minds get warped. You keep embracing government. I recall how you called me crazy 6 years ago for suggesting that everything govt. touches turns to ca ca but 6 years later it isn't exactly a utopia. Why it has gotten so bad that Americans that call themselves Americans want to chuck their freedom out the window because some numb nut on TV sells them a lie. You want gun control- try another country...

You're going to have to be a little clearer here.

 

[Otis]

I'll grant that but let's key our eye on the target. It's the guy pulling the trigger. We are all just burying our heads in the sand if we believe making guns harder to get is going to solve this problem. These people will continue to find ways to get guns if they are determined enough. We need to get to the root of the problem and focus on the mental health in this country. I'm sure there were warning signs from this guy. It seems there always are, yet they are tragically ignored.

Another strawman. Nobody is saying that getting rid of guns will, "solve the problem." People are saying that it might make the problem better. It might not matter in these arguments terms if it was 20 kids killed that day or 2, but it matters to someone.You will always have crazies. The question is how big of a weapon are you going to make it easy for them to get.

It matters to me. As a parent I felt like I was kicked in the nuts when I first heard what happened. I am heartbroken for those people. I want to see something done too. I just don't want to see a knee jerk reaction from gun control advocates that try to take this too far. I also don't want to see what I and many others perceive to be the real issue here of mental illness brushed aside.

Why is everyone so terrified of the gun control advocates "taking this too far"? What are you afraid of? Obama quartering marines in your living room? Making you watch liberal TV programs?? I don't get the paranoia and terror over this "going too far."To me, the scarier end of the spectrum of "going too far" is crazies with bushmasters slaughtering women and children mercilessly. What am I missing?

Oh, boy, this post is rich. You offer an extreme position of banning guns and then have the audacity to say, "Geez, I don't know why you guys think we are taking this too far". And just for good measure:

I didn't say ban all guns. You didn't answer the question.

 

[Otis]

I keep forgetting how insane this place is.

 

[Apple Jack]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

My notebook says he goes bat**** crazy from time to time, and then surprises you at other times with his normalness. Just when you start to feel comfortable, he goes and does this again.

Thankfully he's armed.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

On behalf of all Rush haters who had to share a side with LHucks, I'd like to say that Power Monster is one of yours.

 

[timschochet]

I rarely if ever agree with Max Threshold, and he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on this issue. But he's right, mass shootings are down in this country. It's important to remember this when we discuss this subject. Facts are facts: in the end, what happened on Friday was anecdotal,. and NOT representative of gun violence in our country, most of which takes place in the inner city.

Car deaths are also at the lowest rate since the 20's. So are we done trying to stop them? Do we not have more strict laws for traffic safety than previously? And the other thing people don't take into account is the traumatic effect that these have on our society. Much like 9/11, I suspect this will have a chilling effect for the rest of our lives. So similar to the extreme effort to make sure terrorists never get to airplanes, we have to do something similar to stop these mass shootings. Terrorists could much more easily kill people on a bus or a train but they want the psychological effect of the airplane.

I agree with all of this, especially the last part. All I'm saying is that if we're going to discuss this, we should stick to the facts and call people out when they're dead wrong. Someone wrote earlier that these shootings happen about as often as changes in the weather. That's simply not so. I really agree with your analogy to 9/11, and I think we can use that incident to be cautious about this. How did we respond to 9/11? We spent billions on a Department of Homeland Security, which may or may not protect us more than the FBI and CIA did before it existed- I have no idea. We spent more billions and thousands of lives on a war in Afghanistan which I really question if it did any good. And we engaged in a war in Iraq as an indirect result, which was an unmitigated disaster for this country. If there is a lesson in all that, it's that we need to be very cautious about public policy changes. Now this is not the same sort of situation, and nothing we do or don't do is going to be as terrible as some of those decisions. Still, let's be thoughtful about this.

 

[Clifford]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

 

[timschochet]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

 

[Nipsey]

Syracuse University basketball coach Jim Boeheim became just the third coach in NCAA Division I history to reach the 900-win plateau on Monday.But more than the 3rd-ranked Orange’s win over Detroit, Boeheim might have created more of a stir with his comments at the end of his post-game press conference.After watching television coverage of the tragic shooting that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., last Friday, resulting in 27 dead, Boeheim decided to use his platform to call for stricter measures against assault weapons.“This will probably offend some people,’’ Boeheim said, prefacing his remarks. “If we in this country as Americans cannot get the people that represent us to do something about firearms, we are a sad, sad society. I’m a hunter. I’ve hunted. I’m not talking about rifles. That’s fine. If one person in this world; the NRA president, anybody, can tell me why we need assault weapons with 30 shots in the thing. This is our fault. This is my fault and your fault. All of your faults if we don’t get out and do something about this.’’Boeheim’s comments elicited applause from some fans who had entered the press room to hear the coach’s comments about his historic victory. Instead, Boeheim offered more on the issue of gun legislation.“I saw one guy, a representative I was very proud of, somebody in his state had just come out and said ‘We need more guns. We don’t need less. We need to give teachers gun so they can shoot people.’ Yeah, that’s really good thinking to do that.“If we can’t get this thing done, I’m with the mayor of New York City, if we can’t get this thing done, I don’t know what kind of country we have,’’ he continued. “This is about us. This isn’t about the President or those other people down there (in Washington D.C.). We have to make them understand somehow that this needs to get figured out. Real quick. Not six months from now.’’

 

[Apple Jack]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a big difference, Beav. Now why is banning all guns "irrational?"

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a big difference, Beav. Now why is banning all guns "irrational?"

If you don't know why then I am not going to debate it with you. It is one thing to want more gun control. It needs to be addressed but banning all guns is not right.

 

[sporthenry]

I rarely if ever agree with Max Threshold, and he and I certainly don't see eye to eye on this issue. But he's right, mass shootings are down in this country. It's important to remember this when we discuss this subject. Facts are facts: in the end, what happened on Friday was anecdotal,. and NOT representative of gun violence in our country, most of which takes place in the inner city.

Car deaths are also at the lowest rate since the 20's. So are we done trying to stop them? Do we not have more strict laws for traffic safety than previously? And the other thing people don't take into account is the traumatic effect that these have on our society. Much like 9/11, I suspect this will have a chilling effect for the rest of our lives. So similar to the extreme effort to make sure terrorists never get to airplanes, we have to do something similar to stop these mass shootings. Terrorists could much more easily kill people on a bus or a train but they want the psychological effect of the airplane.

I agree with all of this, especially the last part. All I'm saying is that if we're going to discuss this, we should stick to the facts and call people out when they're dead wrong. Someone wrote earlier that these shootings happen about as often as changes in the weather. That's simply not so. I really agree with your analogy to 9/11, and I think we can use that incident to be cautious about this. How did we respond to 9/11? We spent billions on a Department of Homeland Security, which may or may not protect us more than the FBI and CIA did before it existed- I have no idea. We spent more billions and thousands of lives on a war in Afghanistan which I really question if it did any good. And we engaged in a war in Iraq as an indirect result, which was an unmitigated disaster for this country. If there is a lesson in all that, it's that we need to be very cautious about public policy changes. Now this is not the same sort of situation, and nothing we do or don't do is going to be as terrible as some of those decisions. Still, let's be thoughtful about this.

Well I'm not going to go into the successful or failed foreign interventions after 9/11 but I would liken gun control more to increased FAA security at air ports, not committing billions of dollars/thousands of lives. We would be changing the policies which would be a nuisance to most law-abiding citizens but such is the new norm where we have to find the happy medium between security and liberty (and save me the Ben Franklin quote).But I think the fear is that nothing will happen. After 9/11 happened, we didn't put a gag order on how to prevent future attacks. We were able to both discuss that and mourn at the same time, it wasn't mutually exclusive as some here seem to think nor was it disrespectful to the 3,000+ people who lost their lives. Heck, many of the Pro Gun people forget to remember that they were some of the biggest critics after Va. Tech asking for the repeal of the Gun Free School Zone policy. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a reasoned discussion on this but something should be done rather quickly b/c we should have all of the information necessary after years of this.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a big difference, Beav. Now why is banning all guns "irrational?"

If you don't know why then I am not going to debate it with you. It is one thing to want more gun control. It needs to be addressed but banning all guns is not right.

That's not a very compelling argument for why banning guns would be irrational.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a big difference, Beav. Now why is banning all guns "irrational?"

If you don't know why then I am not going to debate it with you. It is one thing to want more gun control. It needs to be addressed but banning all guns is not right.

That's not a very compelling argument for why banning guns would be irrational.

My mom said not to argue with an idiot.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

There is a big difference in banning all guns vs all semi-automatic weapons. One of those is irrational.

Yes, I'm aware that there is a big difference, Beav. Now why is banning all guns "irrational?"

If you don't know why then I am not going to debate it with you. It is one thing to want more gun control. It needs to be addressed but banning all guns is not right.

That's not a very compelling argument for why banning guns would be irrational.

My mom said not to argue with an idiot.

I think your mommy would tell you that I'm not arguing with you, I'm merely asking you to explain your claim that banning guns would be irrational.

 

[timschochet]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

Because they're not politically viable. I'm not going to claim they're irrational in the sense that they're necessarily bad ideas- I DO think banning all guns is a bad idea, and not sure about semis. But it's a meaningless argument, because (1) it's not going to happen and (2) it gives the NRA types a straw man to argue against. They'd rather not argue against ending the loophole and limiting magazines. They'd much rather argue against banning all guns or banning all semis. You're providing them the bait.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why does it matter how unlikely you are to be a victim of a massacre or how the incident rates have gone up or down? It happens, and there are always dead kids as a result.

I'd like to hear someone take that argument to the end. What is the point after its rare?

The reason it's important is because when you pass laws that are going to affect millions of Americans, you want them to be based on statistics and reason, and not on anecdotes and emotion. Some of the responses in this thread (ban all guns, ban all semi-automatic weapons, etc.) suggest an irrational response. We need to keep in mind just how rare these situations are so that we don't over-react. (But I don't want to under-react either.)

Why are banning all guns or banning all semi-automatic weapons "irrational" ideas? Because you don't agree with them?

Because they're not politically viable. I'm not going to claim they're irrational in the sense that they're necessarily bad ideas- I DO think banning all guns is a bad idea, and not sure about semis. But it's a meaningless argument, because (1) it's not going to happen and (2) it gives the NRA types a straw man to argue against. They'd rather not argue against ending the loophole and limiting magazines. They'd much rather argue against banning all guns or banning all semis. You're providing them the bait.

Proposing a gun ban right now is not a good idea and it will likely not happen in our lifetimes, but that doesn't mean that banning guns is irrational.

 

[parasaurolophus]

We should be like England, they got it right.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stmhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

Tommy, one of your articles is from 2009. The other is from 2001. I've already linked England's 2012 statistics here. They have a third or less of our murders and something like 1/100 of our firearm homicides.Yes. They're getting it right. Or at least more right than we are.

They may be getting it right, but I dont think they are getting it right simply because they banned guns. Their gun crime was already way lower. They banned guns and gun crimes still spiked for several years after.Gun crime has decreased since the spike, but it has also decreased in the US during that same time frame. Isn't it logical to think that there are other factors contributing to the decrease rather than a ban from many many years prior?We should be examining what England was doing before the ban, not after.

 

[[icon]]

All this crazy talk from the politicians has me looking into a Beowulf 50cal AR-15 with my FF winnings this year.

Screw that wimply .223 ammo. This thing can shoot a person thru a car door at 200yds.

Downside is can only fit 7 50cal rounds in a modded 20 round AR magazine since they're as big as your thumb.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.24hourcampfire.com%2Fubbthreads%2Fubbthreads.php%2Ftopics%2F3809856%2FRe_50_Beowulf_with_many_extras&ei=JADQUJPhKoWe8gTU7IDwCQ&usg=AFQjCNHx6AEbsb8480EPqC6fnVeRUYUy9Q

 

[tommyboy]

I love how when something tragic occurs the first thing people do is demand you give up your constitutionally protected rights. Apparently our lovely education system hasn't done a very good job of explaining the importance and legal significance of constitutional rights.

Because of 9/11 we all have much less rights to privacy. Id prefer we dont do this again. The 2nd amendment says "not to be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

 

[sporthenry]

I love how when something tragic occurs the first thing people do is demand you give up your constitutionally protected rights. Apparently our lovely education system hasn't done a very good job of explaining the importance and legal significance of constitutional rights.Because of 9/11 we all have much less rights to privacy. Id prefer we dont do this again. The 2nd amendment says "not to be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

Yep thats it. We should live in the 1700's. By the way, I think my slave ran away to your house, could you return him? Additionally, infringing has nothing to do with regulating. We already took away the rights to machine guns, would that be infringing on our rights? Additionally, we have the oldest working Constitution. And some of us might be of the belief that if you aren't moving forward, you are moving backwards. Do people think the US Constitution is perfect? A document drafted in 1787 can effectively determine our rights in the 21st C. in the age of the internet? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/us/we-the-people-loses-appeal-with-people-around-the-world.htmlPerhaps that sheds some light. While the US Constitution may arguably be the most influential document ever, citing it doesn't and shouldn't just end all discussion.

 

[tommyboy]

I love how when something tragic occurs the first thing people do is demand you give up your constitutionall protected rights. Apparently our lovely education system hasn't done a very good job of explaining the importance and legal significance of constitutional rights.Because of 9/11 we all have much less rights to privacy. Id prefer we dont do this again. The 2nd amendment says "not to be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

Yep thats it. We should live in the 1700's. By the way, I think my slave ran away to your house, could you return him? Additionally, infringing has nothing to do with regulating. We already took away the rights to machine guns, would that be infringing on our rights? Additionally, we have the oldest working Constitution. And some of us might be of the belief that if you aren't moving forward, you are moving backwards. Do people think the US Constitution is perfect? A document drafted in 1787 can effectively determine our rights in the 21st C. in the age of the internet? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/us/we-the-people-loses-appeal-with-people-around-the-world.htmlPerhaps that sheds some light. While the US Constitution may arguably be the most influential document ever, citing it doesn't and shouldn't just end all discussion.

Of course your response is full of strawmen arguing against things i didnt say. Tell you guys what, when you want to calm down and have a rational discussion, send me a pm.

 

[sporthenry]

I love how when something tragic occurs the first thing people do is demand you give up your constitutionall protected rights. Apparently our lovely education system hasn't done a very good job of explaining the importance and legal significance of constitutional rights.Because of 9/11 we all have much less rights to privacy. Id prefer we dont do this again. The 2nd amendment says "not to be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

Yep thats it. We should live in the 1700's. By the way, I think my slave ran away to your house, could you return him? Additionally, infringing has nothing to do with regulating. We already took away the rights to machine guns, would that be infringing on our rights? Additionally, we have the oldest working Constitution. And some of us might be of the belief that if you aren't moving forward, you are moving backwards. Do people think the US Constitution is perfect? A document drafted in 1787 can effectively determine our rights in the 21st C. in the age of the internet? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/us/we-the-people-loses-appeal-with-people-around-the-world.htmlPerhaps that sheds some light. While the US Constitution may arguably be the most influential document ever, citing it doesn't and shouldn't just end all discussion.

Of course your response is full of strawmen arguing against things i didnt say. Tell you guys what, when you want to calm down and have a rational discussion, send me a pm.

Well my first joke was just to dismiss the Constitution as infallible. I guess you could call it a straw man argument but when you act as if the Constitution is the end all, be all, I think it is fairly relevant. I am fairly calm. I thought my answer was well reasoned and thought out. You presented an argument about how our Constitutional rights are paramount to any and everything. The first argument, as Proninja reiterated, is that infringed does not equal regulation. We can see this as the US has regulated guns before making assault rifles illegal. Additionally, the first amendment, which says the government can't "abridge the freedom of speech," has since regulated some speech as not being able to use obscenities. My other point was that hiding behind the Constitution might be a bit outdated. I think Thomas Jefferson said that Constitutions should last for 19 years before they become outdated. This will probably be an incendiary comment to some who hold the Constitution supreme to all but when other countries are no longer using our government/legal system as the basis for their systems, I think we must look at ourselves in the mirror and ask why.

 

[greenroom]

I love how when something tragic occurs the first thing people do is demand you give up your constitutionall protected rights. Apparently our lovely education system hasn't done a very good job of explaining the importance and legal significance of constitutional rights.

Because of 9/11 we all have much less rights to privacy. Id prefer we dont do this again. The 2nd amendment says "not to be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

Yep thats it. We should live in the 1700's. By the way, I think my slave ran away to your house, could you return him? Additionally, infringing has nothing to do with regulating. We already took away the rights to machine guns, would that be infringing on our rights? Additionally, we have the oldest working Constitution. And some of us might be of the belief that if you aren't moving forward, you are moving backwards. Do people think the US Constitution is perfect? A document drafted in 1787 can effectively determine our rights in the 21st C. in the age of the internet?

http://www.nytimes.c...-the-world.html

Perhaps that sheds some light. While the US Constitution may arguably be the most influential document ever, citing it doesn't and shouldn't just end all discussion.

Of course your response is full of strawmen arguing against things i didnt say. Tell you guys what, when you want to calm down and have a rational discussion, send me a pm.

So another words you have nothing. And instead of admitting that you were wrong or have no idea on how to answer a good question , you are going to take your football away from the other kids. The question are valid, to bad you cannot answer them in an adult way.