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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (13 Viewers)

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I also accept Hillary's flaws. But in my judgment, she is the most qualified, best prepared candidate to be President in my lifetime, and I am more confident that she will be a good President than I've been about any other candidate I've supported. Furthermore, I STRONGLY disagree with this meme that she's a bad, dishonest person. I think she has proven herself over the years to be an exemplary public servant, a patriot, and a great American. She's one of the good guys. And Donald Trump is very clearly one of the bad guys. I don't need to compare him to anybody else to know that. So this is a very easy choice for me. 

 
timschochet said:
I also accept Hillary's flaws. But in my judgment, she is the most qualified, best prepared candidate to be President in my lifetime, and I am more confident that she will be a good President than I've been about any other candidate I've supported. Furthermore, I STRONGLY disagree with this meme that she's a bad, dishonest person. I think she has proven herself over the years to be an exemplary public servant, a patriot, and a great American. She's one of the good guys. And Donald Trump is very clearly one of the bad guys. I don't need to compare him to anybody else to know that. So this is a very easy choice for me. 
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Cmon Tim.  Seriously?  Good guys and bad guys?  Sounds like something Trump would say.

 
timschochet said:
You guys want proof that Hillary is a good person? Here you go:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/clintons-geneva-accord-gay-rights-are-human-rights/2011/03/04/gIQAPUipcO_blog.html
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There's tens of millions of people that believe gay people should have full rights and shouldn't be mistreated.

Does that make them all good people?

Also, you can't call someone a good person for reading a speech that someone else wrote for them.  Cmon man!

 
shader said:
Cmon Tim.  Seriously?  Good guys and bad guys?  Sounds like something Trump would say.
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I don't care if he says it. I truly believe Hillary is a good person, and Trump is a bad person. One way I define a bad person is being a bigot. Donald Trump is the most bigoted major political figure (excluding regional types like George Wallace) in modern American history. That makes him a bad guy; I don't need anything else. 

 
shader said:
There's tens of millions of people that believe gay people should have full rights and shouldn't be mistreated.

Does that make them all good people?

Also, you can't call someone a good person for reading a speech that someone else wrote for them.  Cmon man!
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1. It makes them better people than the ones who don't, IMO. 

2. I absolutely can, and I do. 

 
This is the part where someone Hillary friendly asserts Hillaryfans are cognizant of Hillary's flaws and they then proceed to deny all her flaws.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is the part where someone Hillary friendly asserts Hillaryfans are cognizant of Hillary's flaws and they then proceed to deny all her flaws.
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You have accused her, in this thread and others of: 

1. Complicity in a cover-up regarding what happened in Benghazi. 

2. Using the Clinton Foundation to accept bribe money to influence political decisions that she made as Secretary of State. 

3. Criminal and unethical behavior with regard to her private server and emails as Secretary of State. 

These "flaws" I deny. 

 
Henry Ford said:
And what was her position on gay marriage at the time of that speech?

Hint: a year later she still hadn't taken a new one.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/11/gay-marriage-hillary-clinton-edition-updated-150783

Gay rights are human rights.  I agree.  All of them.
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She evolved on that issue as did so many Americans. I have criticized her for that, in this thread as well. But changing one's mind is the exact definition of a progressive. 

What's important about that speech is that it was the first one of it's kind that an American Secretary of State ever made. It was a proud moment in the history of this country. I'm proud of her, and of the Obama Administration. That was special. 

 
cobalt_27 said:
As a moderate democrat, I can say the story with Hillary doesn't start or end with the republicans.  She is a recidivist liar, and there is no telling what she actually believes in.  She will bend to whichever way the winds of financial and political paybacks are blowing in the moment. That has been her political legacy and the best predictor of the future.  I will vote for her only to nix Trump.  But, I cannot in good conscience actively support someone as morally and ethically bankrupt as Hillary Clinton.
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:loco:

 
timschochet said:
She evolved on that issue as did so many Americans. I have criticized her for that, in this thread as well. But changing one's mind is the exact definition of a progressive. 
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:yes:

From the word progress. And progress in things such as civil rights would never have been made by maintaining the status quo.

 
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timschochet said:
I don't care if he says it. I truly believe Hillary is a good person, and Trump is a bad person. One way I define a bad person is being a bigot. Donald Trump is the most bigoted major political figure (excluding regional types like George Wallace) in modern American history. That makes him a bad guy; I don't need anything else. 
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What do you make of the racial undertones of her 2008 campaign?  It seems she can play the bigot card when it suits her interests...

 
timschochet said:
She evolved on that issue as did so many Americans. I have criticized her for that, in this thread as well. But changing one's mind is the exact definition of a progressive. 

What's important about that speech is that it was the first one of it's kind that an American Secretary of State ever made. It was a proud moment in the history of this country. I'm proud of her, and of the Obama Administration. That was special. 
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A progressive is the one who is trying to change minds. Not someone who eventually changes their mind or gets on board after the writing is on the wall. 
 


  1. noun


    1.


    a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

    synonyms:


    innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal,libertarian













 
timschochet said:
She evolved on that issue as did so many Americans. I have criticized her for that, in this thread as well. But changing one's mind is the exact definition of a progressive. 

What's important about that speech is that it was the first one of it's kind that an American Secretary of State ever made. It was a proud moment in the history of this country. I'm proud of her, and of the Obama Administration. That was special. 
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No, supporting policies that implement social reform or liberal ideas is the exact definition of a progressive.  You don't have to change your mind to do that. 

 
Rove! said:
How Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton helped to kill immigration reform in 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/13/AR2007061301966.html
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That's not what killed the bill. The McCain-Kennedy bill was killed because the base of the Republican party went ape#### crazy just as they always do whenever there is any attempt to come up with a reasonable solution to illegal immigration. Bob Novak knew that and was trying to come up with a plausible way to excuse the base's insane behavior. The attempt by mainstream Republicans to excuse and ignore the base's extremism is what has directly led to Donald Trump. 

 
fossdboss said:
A progressive is the one who is trying to change minds. Not someone who eventually changes their mind or gets on board after the writing is on the wall. 
 


  1. noun


    1.


    a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

    synonyms:


    innovator, reformer, reformist, liberal,libertarian









     




Click to expand...


Henry Ford said:
No, supporting policies that implement social reform or liberal ideas is the exact definition of a progressive.  You don't have to change your mind to do that. 
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OK guys. In any case, I'm convinced that Hillary is a pragmatic progressive. I'm glad she feels the way she does about this issue, and I admire her speech that I linked, which as I wrote was a great moment. 

 
timschochet said:
OK guys. In any case, I'm convinced that Hillary is a pragmatic progressive. I'm glad she feels the way she does about this issue, and I admire her speech that I linked, which as I wrote was a great moment. 
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I think it was a good moment.  But I don't think it was a very politically impressive moment in this country to fight against the murder and rape of homosexuals because of sexual orientation in December, 2011. Just like I don't think it's currently all that impressive to support gay marriage.

As I've repeatedly said, I think Clinton is a solid foreign policy choice.  Domestically, not as much.

 
Henry Ford said:
I think it was a good moment.  But I don't think it was a very politically impressive moment in this country to fight against the murder and rape of homosexuals because of sexual orientation in December, 2011. Just like I don't think it's currently all that impressive to support gay marriage.

As I've repeatedly said, I think Clinton is a solid foreign policy choice.  Domestically, not as much.
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Why do you feel she's a solid foreign policy choice?  Can a Hillary doctrine be articulated?  Or is she flexible enough to shift gears to the needs of the moment?  Domestically, you, I, Tim...nobody knows what she stands for or would support, but it doesn't seem her foreign policy agenda is well-established, either.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Why do you feel she's a solid foreign policy choice?  Can a Hillary doctrine be articulated?  Or is she flexible enough to shift gears to the needs of the moment?  Domestically, you, I, Tim...nobody knows what she stands for or would support, but it doesn't seem her foreign policy agenda is well-established, either.
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Primarily her existing understanding of foreign policy goals and how the pieces fit together in the current world stage, including trade regimes and the Obama administration's handling of negotiations to this point.  She was SOS recently enough that she has a decent handle on what's going on and can step in.

And yes, flexibility.  I think things are in flux enough right now that there will be massive unanticipated challenges in the next eight years.  And I think her lack of an articulable doctrine may be a benefit in foreign policy as a result 

 
timschochet said:
That's not what killed the bill. The McCain-Kennedy bill was killed because the base of the Republican party went ape#### crazy just as they always do whenever there is any attempt to come up with a reasonable solution to illegal immigration. Bob Novak knew that and was trying to come up with a plausible way to excuse the base's insane behavior. The attempt by mainstream Republicans to excuse and ignore the base's extremism is what has directly led to Donald Trump. 
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They both voted FOR the Dorgan amendment, which was the poison pill.for all of the right wing opposition, labor also opposed it and Obama and Clinton were on the side killing the bill

For all of the right wing opposition, the poison pill amendment only passed 49 to 48 and in the words of Chuck Schumer, killed the bill....

 
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timschochet said:
You have accused her, in this thread and others of: 

1. Complicity in a cover-up regarding what happened in Benghazi. 

2. Using the Clinton Foundation to accept bribe money to influence political decisions that she made as Secretary of State. 

3. Criminal and unethical behavior with regard to her private server and emails as Secretary of State. 

These "flaws" I deny. 
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Tim FYI those are not "flaws."

btw 1. is wrong, 2. Is partly wrong, 3. yeah ok.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
.

Hillary Clinton’s Email: the Definitive Timeline



2013


March 22: “Guccifer” hacks Clinton’s emails via aide’s account showing that Clinton had received confidential information from a public account.

2014

Dec. 5: Clinton privately turns over copies of 30,490 “work-related” emails to the State Dept. totaling 55,000 printed pages. No date has been provided as to when she deleted her “private” emails, but it is presumed to be around this time frame.


2015


March 10: Clinton answers questions about her email practices for the first time. She tells reporters:
Last year, she deleted nearly 31,000+ emails that were “private.”
She will not turn over her personal email server.
She “fully complied” with the law.
She has turned over to the State Dept. 55,000 pages of work-related emails.
There were 62,320 emails in her account: 30,490 were public business; 31,830 were private.

July 28: Clinton revises her statement regarding classified email to say she is confident she never sent or received emails that were classified at the time.

Aug. 11: Inspector General report to the Senate contradicts Clinton claims; some Clinton emails, says the IG, contained information that was classified at the time.

Aug. 15: In a campaign appearance at the Iowa State Fair, Clinton revises her statement about classified email a second time, stating that she never sent or received any that were “marked” classified.

Nov. 30: State Dept. releases 8,000 more Clinton emails; some of the emails received “classified” markings.


2016


Jan. 15: The Inspector General for the intelligence community Charles McCullough tells members of Congress that several dozen additional classified emails have been identified in Clinton’s stash, including some with a higher classification than top secret, regarding highly sensitive programs.
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There were a lot of subplots running though that timeline. The FOI requests and lawsuits, the missing Blackberries, the Benghazi hearings, etc  create some confusion because there's multiple stories going on.  I thought it would be interesting to pull out the entries related to a single point: Hillary's changing versions of whether classified emails were sent on her private server.

 
Henry Ford said:
timschochet said:
Here's some more:

http://creativity-online.com/work/hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-children/45286
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I will say, she has always been remarkably consistent in her very controversial "for the children" position.
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This is the one area she consistently comes across genuinely and is the litmus test I use as a reference when trying to figure out if she's full of it or not.  I've always admired her work and positions on children.  She's "different" when that topic comes up.  I look for those same characteristics/qualities in her other alleged positions and they simply don't show up. That's why I am left believing she's full of it on those other topics.

 
timschochet said:
She evolved on that issue as did so many Americans. I have criticized her for that, in this thread as well. But changing one's mind is the exact definition of a progressive. 

What's important about that speech is that it was the first one of it's kind that an American Secretary of State ever made. It was a proud moment in the history of this country. I'm proud of her, and of the Obama Administration. That was special. 
Click to expand...
yeah no....changing your mind is changing your mind....being progressive is LEADING a movement...being out in front waiting for others to catch up because you believe it's the correct thing to do.  Taking a position because a lot of people take the same position, then changing that position because a lot of people have made the same change is anything but progressive.

 
timschochet said:
I think she has proven herself over the years to be an exemplary public servant, a patriot, and a great American. She's one of the good guys. 
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And your evidence for this proposition is that she once gave a speech in which she said nice things about gay people, back when she was still in favor of denying them marriage rights.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
timschochet said:
I think she has proven herself over the years to be an exemplary public servant, a patriot, and a great American. She's one of the good guys. 
Click to expand...
And your evidence for this proposition is that she once gave a speech in which she said nice things about gay people, back when she was still in favor of denying them marriage rights.
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And the book Game Change.  Don't forget that.  The book that changed timschochet's view from "Hillary Clinton is worse than Cruella De Ville" to "she's a good person, a patriot, and an exemplary public servant".  Oh, and don't forget, she's also the most prepared and well qualified candidate for POTUS in his lifetime.  You know, except for practically every other candidate, as listed earlier in this thread.

 
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timschochet said:
I know it, but sometimes when I read the bs that gets spewed in this thread drinking is the only option. 
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This is like complaining about having a headache while willingly smashing your head into a brick wall Tim.  Stop the spewing and you won't have to drink.  Stop smashing your head into the wall and it'll stop hurting :shrug:

 
squistion said:
:yes:

From the word progress. And progress in things such as civil rights would never have been made by maintaining the status quo.
Click to expand...
In this episode of As the Hillary Turns, which will last through the summer, we will be tracking Hillary's slow turn right, like a WWI dreadnought heading back to port.

Today: Aipac!

 
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