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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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AnonymousBob
Footballguy
I missed that news. Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
That mean a grand jury probe is likely in progress. Hillary's got to be more worried about the 2nd investigation into the Clinton Foundation corruption charges.
If you hear carefully to what Obama says. He downplayed potential damages for Hillary's private email server getting hacked but did not comment on her wrong doing. Conventional wisdom says Hillary won't get to see the UFO files.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/10/president-obama-i-guarantee-politics-wont-taint-cl/
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is where we are in American politics today. One party's front-runner is under criminal investigation for mishandling classified information. The other party's front-runner is a reality TV B-list who makes **** jokes during presidential debates. Be sure to vote in November.
Trey
Footballguy
Too many Americans are automatic D and R votes no matter what unfortunately. It could be ripe for a Perot like 3rd party run to make waves but the country has just become so polarized.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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Trey
Footballguy
Typically 3rd party support is actually softer than polled come Election Day. Obviously this year will be a historic case with Clinton vs Cruz/Trump at the top however.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Anyone experienced, normal and likeable could walk in and win this thing. Registration in the two parties is at a near historic low.
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That's fine to prefer a BIG, but you don't want a higher minimum wage? I thought you did, apologies if that's not the case.
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm just not buying the narrative in this thread. I do not believe that Hillary Clinton is under criminal investigation. I do not believe there is a serious threat that either she or anyone working for her will be found guilty of a crime.
I also believe that Hillary's current unpopularity is a temporary thing, that can be changed. I don't think that the American public in general finds her to be an unlikeable person. She had high approval numbers back when she was Secretary of State, and also as First Lady and Senator. I think the public is a mode where they simply distrust establishment figures, but that can change.
And finally, I think that a lot of the problem that Hillary faces is due to sexism. I am convinced that if she were a man, a lot of the criticism she faces would simply disappear. The fact that she will, hopefully, be able to overcome this setback in thinking is a tribute to her.
I also believe that Hillary's current unpopularity is a temporary thing, that can be changed. I don't think that the American public in general finds her to be an unlikeable person. She had high approval numbers back when she was Secretary of State, and also as First Lady and Senator. I think the public is a mode where they simply distrust establishment figures, but that can change.
And finally, I think that a lot of the problem that Hillary faces is due to sexism. I am convinced that if she were a man, a lot of the criticism she faces would simply disappear. The fact that she will, hopefully, be able to overcome this setback in thinking is a tribute to her.
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I'd said it earlier, but look into Ginni Rometty. If ever she ran, she'd be an ideal candidate. Integrity, razor smart, positive, leading one of the world's biggest companies through a difficult transition very well, worked her way up from engineer to CEO, personable, understands the technology drivers that will impact life and the economy. Never heard her mentioned in the political arena, but if she were ever to run I can't imagine anyone beating her. Sooooo much better than Hillary it isn't even funny.
Hear she even works her own email.
There's my write-in.
Hear she even works her own email.
There's my write-in.
I disagree- I think it's a waste of time and political capital focusing on the minimum wage.
squistion
Footballguy
IMO, you're especially wrong about the third paragraph. If she were a man, she'd be much lower in the polls, due to not having the advantage of identity politics she currently enjoys (i.e. many women will vote for her simply because she's a woman).
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I know it won't happen, but it would be great if Bernie and/or Trump ran 3rd party. Having essentially only 2 choices is ridiculous in a country as large and diverse as ours.
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Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
If your state has a lot of delegates like California or New York then you are getting a wage increase whether you like it or not. ?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Why did Bryan Pagliano get immunity?
And why did the FBI tell State to halt its investigation in early February because they were taking over?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How many men have been accused of any of these things and gone on to win public office?:
- Been involved in a bank failure. (Madison Guaranty).
- An environmental catastrophe. (Tyson water pollution).
- Managing an office which wasn't under his purview with mass firings, followed by a 30 minute acquittal basically because someone was framed.
- Been caught destroying documents not once, not twice, but three times.
- Improperly obtained private information of citizens.
- Seen their campaign finance manager arrested and convicted.
- Taking public property.
- Profiting from the sale of pardons (this could apply to anyone who was a governor at any time).
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cstu
Footballguy
Even good Republicans are beholden to the interests of the Party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I don't recall who posted the article about Pagliano getting immunity (my money is on Saints
). Anyways, I think it was from WaPo and I think it said something along the lines of it being an investigation into potential wrongdoing. They are trying to determine if it was criminal wrongdoing.
I can't find the link and hope someone can to make sure I paraphrased it right.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ha, no it wasn't me, but good guess I admit. That 'wrongdoing', refers to Hillary, not Pagliano.I don't recall who posted the article about Pagliano getting immunity (my money is on Saints
Anyways, I think it was from WaPo and I think it said something along the lines of it being an investigation into potential wrongdoing. They are trying to determine if it was criminal wrongdoing.
I can't find the link and hope someone can to make sure I paraphrased it right.
My question is what did he - as opposed to Hillary - actually do criminally such that would merit immunity?
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One crime he definitely committed was not disclosing to State, where he was employed, that he was working directly of Hillary.
The rest probably had to do with all the things Hillary is accused of, but he's junior enough to actually be charged with.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Or, put it this way, is there anything Pagliano could have done which would not have also required Hillary's participation?
squistion
Footballguy
Please.
How many First Lady's were involved in politics before her? Only Eleanor Roosevelt and they didn't do approval polling in those days.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
True, so people know if they don't:
- Pagliano came into federal service for the first time ever at the highest possible entry level, GS-13. That requires a high level of clearance I believe, which he did not get.
- He got a salary of something like $130K+.
- And he was also was paid privately by Hillary. And I could be wrong but double employment is not allowed at State except with some special dispensation from GAS (or whatever agency) which he did not get.
But there is probably potentially other stuff relating to handling classified data.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How long have Gallup ratings been around?
Ok, since Eleanor.
But we are not talking about a complicated job here - manage the White House, coordinate State dinners, adopt some public program of great social worth, make the President popular.
You can probably go to Mrs. Wilson and Mrs. Lincoln. before and after that it's probably pretty much all popular women. Bess Truman was maybe a but of a homebody, true.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I can't imagine anything more exhausting than the mental gymnastics you have to go through to write some of these posts.
squistion
Footballguy
Nobody knew Mrs. Wilson was running the country, so even if there were polls she would have done fine.
Hillary was the only first lady following Eleanor to involve herself in politics. Certainly not Bess Truman, Mamie Eisenhower, Jackie, Lady Bird, Pat Nixon, Betty Ford, Rosalynn Carter and Barbara Bush. You can make an argument for Nancy Reagan for "Just Say No" but that was not really controversial at the time (who would argue against it even though seems a bit naïve and simplistic) but that about it as far as first ladies who were political activists until Hillary.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Hillary represents ALL that is wrong with politics., so we all need to remember this when the left diatribes against corruption, fraud and big money in politics. They don't really mean it. Or, more to the point, they only mean it if you're not on they're team.
If you're voting for Hillary, I one can only assume you're okay with all that.
squistion
Footballguy
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Hillary confesses to Bill that she almost didn't marry him, that a traveling salesman with a kind smile and a simple way almost sediced her when they were dating and whisked her away.
"Oh? Ever wonder how your life would have turned out?" Bill asks.
"I'd have been First Lady and then President."
"Oh? Ever wonder how your life would have turned out?" Bill asks.
"I'd have been First Lady and then President."
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AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Tim - you've stated you believe a lot of the folks not being a fan of Hillary feel that way because she's a woman. By this logic I'll assume why a lot of folks aren't voting for Bernie. As such, I'll ask you point blank - what do you have against Jews? I find your anti semitism to be distasteful and urge you to reconsider your position.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Politics was not the job description. Do you want to revisit Tim's claim? She had good approval ratings as First Lady. Sure, when she escorted Bill out to the copter and didn't throw his stuff out on the lawn instead.
Warsteinner
Footballguy
I lean right, but would vote for a female and even a democrat. I just hate her face and everything she says. I felt the same about her husband so it isn't sexist.
timschochet
Footballguy
Very funny.
But humor aside, there's a lot of evidence about sexism against Hillary. Some of it comes from Bernie fans, though most of it stems from the more predictable source: Republicans. Dana Milbanks gave a summary in the Washington Post a few weeks ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sexist-double-standards-hurting-hillary-clinton/2016/02/12/fb551e38-d195-11e5-abc9-ea152f0b9561_story.html
At a Clinton rally last week in New Hampshire, I discussed the decibel dilemma with Jay Newton-Small of Time magazine. “It’s very hard for a woman to telegraph passion,” she explained. “When Bernie yells, it shows his dedication to the cause. When she yells, it’s interpreted in a very different way: She’s yelling at you.”
That’s not about Clinton; it’s about us. “It is a subtle kind of sexism that exists that we don’t recognize,” said Newton-Small, who literally wrote the book on the matter. “Broad Influence: How Women Are Changing the Way America Works,” out last month, includes a chapter on Clinton. “When women raise their voices, people tend to get their hackles up. People I talk to at Clinton events put her in a maternal role: Why is she screaming at me? Am I in trouble?”
Campaigning While Female also deprives Clinton of the ability to make lofty promises. Sanders, for example, has a $15 trillion non-starter of a health-care plan. If Clinton floated such a plan, the media would mock it as patently absurd. But Sanders gets a pass.
Why the double standard? “Men are the guys who want to go out and buy the motorcycle, and women are the purse-string holders,” Newton-Small said. “It’s a very traditional role we are putting women into by making them the one saying, no, we can’t do all these really fun things. This is a very stereotypical box she gets put into, which then makes it very hard for her to be inspirational.”
This is the essence of Clinton’s trouble: If she can’t plausibly offer pie in the sky, and she can’t raise her voice, how does she inspire people? This hurts particularly with young voters — the same segment that shunned Clinton in 2008.
Clinton’s “likeability” problem also has something to do with her lack of a Y chromosome. It’s a direct consequence of the imperative that she demonstrate her toughness. Men can be tough and warm at the same time — think Ronald Reagan — but for women, it’s a trade-off.
In 2008, she played down gender and positioned herself as “ready to lead on day one.” This time she took a softer approach but eventually found herself back in the position of arguing that she’d be a better wartime leader than Sanders. For Clinton, “it’s a really tough needle to thread to be tough enough to be a commander in chief and still be likeable,” Newton-Small said.
I disagree with those who scream “sexism” every time somebody criticizes Clinton. But there’s no denying that women are more often the victims of online savagery. That was true long before the Bernie Bros (who could be heard booing a mention of Madeleine Albright at Thursday’s debate). Sanders objects to the Bernie Bros but may encourage them when he talks about the “drama” Clinton creates and her “shouting.” It’s also hard to imagine a male candidate being faulted for his wife’s misbehavior the way Clinton is blamed for her husband’s.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Meh. I'm not the one who has sacrificed my integrity and ideals. Some day, in the future, you're going to look back on this part of your life and wonder why you sacrificed so much of that for someone who represents the almost complete opposite of what you supposedly stand for.You really think that, Max? I am shocked, shocked, to hear that.
That's assuming, of course, that "what you stand for " isn't corruption, fraud and flat out lying. If they are, then maybe I pegged you all wrong in the first place.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
i do not like Hillary at all. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. I just don't like corrupt liars.
timschochet
Footballguy
One of the points that Milbank makes, correctly IMO, is that the sexism isn't really anybody's fault (of course the crude stuff is but that's not what I'm talking about.) it's been institutionalized into our thinking, much the way a lot of racism is. We have to work hard to defeat it. Unfortunately this effort is often resented (which is part of the reason Donald Trump has done so well.)
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