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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (5 Viewers)

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And BTW, I don't agree with Bill's comments about Bernie. IMO Bernie has worked hard to avoid sexism in his critique of Hillary. My issue with sexism is in the perceptions of the media and the public and not in any attacks by Bernie. 
You parroted the same "subconscious" line Bill Clinton used on Bernie.  But, you believe Bernie is not operating from some deep dark place of sexism in his sub-conscience?  Why does he get a pass, but everyone else is just being a sexist zombie?

 
I think Bill's and Hillary's style of campaigning (among a myriad of other things) has more to do with her unlikeability than her gender, at least in the circles I run in. This is a perfect example.
Bill was very likable and came across as much more sincere.  It is more Hillary being a complete phony and so damn condescending.  

 
You parroted the same "subconscious" line Bill Clinton used on Bernie.  But, you believe Bernie is not operating from some deep dark place of sexism in his sub-conscience?  Why does he get a pass, but everyone else is just being a sexist zombie?
Tim can read minds and hearts.  People that disagree with him have evil motives.  People who mostly agree with him have good motives and pure hearts.  It would be an amazing ability if he was even close to being right.  

 
The lip-biting trick was always effective.  
I will say, I think being a woman hurts Hillary in the sense that women in our society simply don't learn to lie as well as men do.  Men lie constantly about everything and nothing.  We learn how to keep a lie as close to the truth as possible and how to sell it. And particularly Bill.  He's one of the greats.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" is one of the all-time best whoppers that people actually believed. Briefly, of course.

 
You parroted the same "subconscious" line Bill Clinton used on Bernie.  But, you believe Bernie is not operating from some deep dark place of sexism in his sub-conscience?  Why does he get a pass, but everyone else is just being a sexist zombie?
It's not "everyone else", but Dana Milbank and several others have offered up numerous examples of statements and attitudes about Hillary in which in their opinion, and mine, sexism is clearly at play. I haven't heard that from Bernie Sanders. 

 
And it's not that Bernie isn't sexist. I think we all are. But he tries hard not to let it affect what he has to say. IMO that's commendable. And it's what political correctness is all about: working hard against ingrained thoughts and behavior to act in such a way that people won't be hurt or offended. I think that's a great thing, but so many people attack it. 

 
Hillary is the least charismatic person in the race from the very start.

BTW, I get a nagging feeling that something is coming down tomorrow :oldunsure:
Hmmm, an expedited closed meeting with Board of Governors of the FED at 11:30am then another meeting with Obama and Joe Biden at 3:00pm.  I hope Yellen is not moving ahead with bank stress tests for negative interest rates or something...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obama-fed-idUSKCN0X7105

 
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It's not "everyone else", but Dana Milbank and several others have offered up numerous examples of statements and attitudes about Hillary in which in their opinion, and mine, sexism is clearly at play. I haven't heard that from Bernie Sanders. 
There have been some anti-Semitic issues the Sanders campaign has faced as well. I think it's good for everyone to keep an eye out for such things, but I don't believe they are going to decide the election, for either one.

 
It's not "everyone else", but Dana Milbank and several others have offered up numerous examples of statements and attitudes about Hillary in which in their opinion, and mine, sexism is clearly at play. I haven't heard that from Bernie Sanders. 
Ok, then I suggest you stay in that lane.  Let's put up the examples of statements and attitudes attributable to specific individuals where sexism is clearly in play.  What you probably want to avoid is making blanket statements about everyone else.

 
Ok, then I suggest you stay in that lane.  Let's put up the examples of statements and attitudes attributable to specific individuals where sexism is clearly in play.  What you probably want to avoid is making blanket statements about everyone else.
Particularly Sanders supporters, most of whom really wish Warren were running instead.

 
I will say, I think being a woman hurts Hillary in the sense that women in our society simply don't learn to lie as well as men do.  Men lie constantly about everything and nothing.  We learn how to keep a lie as close to the truth as possible and how to sell it. And particularly Bill.  He's one of the greats.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" is one of the all-time best whoppers that people actually believed. Briefly, of course.
I have known some pretty good women liars though.  And I do think Hillary is a pretty good liar, but Bill was extremely good.

Where Bill was far superior was that he was good with showing empathy towards people without being condescending.  Hillary is terrible.

 
And it's not that Bernie isn't sexist. I think we all are. But he tries hard not to let it affect what he has to say. IMO that's commendable. And it's what political correctness is all about: working hard against ingrained thoughts and behavior to act in such a way that people won't be hurt or offended. I think that's a great thing, but so many people attack it. 
Bernie "tries hard" to filter what he says?  Hmm...

 
At a Clinton rally last week in New Hampshire, I discussed the decibel dilemma with Jay Newton-Small of Time magazine. “It’s very hard for a woman to telegraph passion,” she explained. “When Bernie yells, it shows his dedication to the cause. When she yells, it’s interpreted in a very different way: She’s yelling at you.” 
What a crock of ####.   I work with many incredible women that are very passionate about their work and life.  She comes off as yelling because she's not genuine. Bernie comes off passionate because he's genuine.

 
Particularly Sanders supporters, most of whom really wish Warren were running instead.
I remember when we were discussing Warren as a Presidential candidate and I said that I like her but didn't think she had a chance. Now I'm pissed she didn't run because I think she would have done better than Bernie.  Hillary's primary advantage is that she is a woman and Warren would have negated that.

 
I think Hillary would make the best president of this group by a mile.  She understands government and policy and, yes, diplomacy. But she is so ####### smug and unlikable. 

 
I remember when we were discussing Warren as a Presidential candidate and I said that I like her but didn't think she had a chance. Now I'm pissed she didn't run because I think she would have done better than Bernie.  Hillary's primary advantage is that she is a woman and Warren would have negated that.
I'm a huge Warren fan, but I'm not sure she would have been able to campaign as well as Bernie has.  She's still a relative newcomer to public office and campaigning does not come natural to her, whereas Bernie has been campaigning for decades and has his message dialed in.  

 
One of the great ironies is that if Clinton were a man, he would not have 25% of the support Hillary enjoys now.  If anyone is being sexist, it's the Clinton supporters who look past her deficiencies because she is a woman. 

 
One of the great ironies is that if Clinton were a man, he would not have 25% of the support Hillary enjoys now.  If anyone is being sexist, it's the Clinton supporters who look past her deficiencies because she is a woman. 
It is probably a net positive for her.   It is not like a bunch of strong women have run for office and have been rejected by the public.  Hillary would have worse support as a man.  Woman fair well when they run.  If any woman has faced discrimination it was Palin and I am not sure even that was sexism. 

 
If my liberal Facebook friends are a barometer, Hillary is getting a lift from her sex.  These are the same people that would be eyeing her critically and lighting pitchforks of they weren't looking for every excuse to look past -- everything, and pin it on men, jealousy and Republicans.  Guess it would depend on the man and the circumstances, but the identification in this case is purely gender-based.  I've been biting my fingers not to reply to their glowing posts or rebukes of those critiquing her (as not to be "that Facebook guy."). And yes, some of them have played the gender bias card.

 
The only real issue with Onama's comments yesterday is he guaranteed there would be no political influence but then went on to comment on Hillary's intent and carelessness.  By making those comments Obama was specifically targeting the two laws Hillary could be indicted on and saying her acts do not meet all the elements.  So he interferes right after guaranteeing he wouldn't. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
One of the great ironies is that if Clinton were a man, he would not have 25% of the support Hillary enjoys now.  If anyone is being sexist, it's the Clinton supporters who look past her deficiencies because she is a woman. 
This reminds me of something we heard a lot back in 2008.

 
Sinn Fein said:
One of the great ironies is that if Clinton were a man, he would not have 25% of the support Hillary enjoys now.  If anyone is being sexist, it's the Clinton supporters who look past her deficiencies because she is a woman. 
Is it totally inconceivable that a large portion of the democratic electorate is quite satisfied with the Obama presidency and wants the greatest probability that it's policies are continued or for the sake of argument that they don't like the policies Bernie is selling?

Do I love Hillary, no.  Do I like her more than Bernie, yes.  It's really that simple. 

 
jon_mx said:
I have known some pretty good women liars though.  And I do think Hillary is a pretty good liar, but Bill was extremely good.

Where Bill was far superior was that he was good with showing empathy towards people without being condescending.  Hillary is terrible.
If you're supporting either Trump or Cruz, you should make an effort to never again mention the word liar. Just makes you sound foolish.

 
Basically, what Politico found out is that it's almost the exact opposite of what Mr. Ham, among others, has been asserting in this thread: the FBI won't indict in these cases unless you can show it was done deliberately. Big surprise! 

 
Basically, what Politico found out is that it's almost the exact opposite of what Mr. Ham, among others, has been asserting in this thread: the FBI won't indict in these cases unless you can show it was done deliberately. Big surprise! 
All those cases have been discussed here, Petraeus, Gonzales, Berger, Deutch.

What do you think of the Deutch case, he was granted clemency by Clinton but he had pleaded guilty, true?

 
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I have no idea if she is or is not. But IMO if she is "gearing up" it's only for public perception purposes, not because she truly has anything to hide. 
People don't voluntarily talk to the FBI or do it for pr. - Then why grant Pagliano immunity? A: because he has provided information about conversations with Hillary, among other technical details. When Hillary speaks with the FBI she wouldn't tell them something different from what Pags said, right?

 
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Is it totally inconceivable that a large portion of the democratic electorate is quite satisfied with the Obama presidency and wants the greatest probability that it's policies are continued or for the sake of argument that they don't like the policies Bernie is selling?

Do I love Hillary, no.  Do I like her more than Bernie, yes.  It's really that simple. 
Based on primary results - I think, yes, it is inconceivable that a "large portion" of the democratic voters want Clinton.

Lets say 50-55% of the voters want Clinton - how many of those voters want Clinton because she is a woman?  How many want her to be a 3rd Obama term?

Let say 25% want her to be an historic 1st female president.  50% want her to be Obama's third term, and 25% really just don't like Bernie (which would be incredibly high, given his favorability ratings with the Democrats)

So, out of the democrats, 12% want her to be the first female president, 25-30% want her to continue Obama's presidency, 12% hate Bernie, and 45+% would rather have Bernie than Clinton. 

 
People don't voluntarily talk to the FBI or do it for pr. - Then why grant Pagliano immunity? A: because he has provided information about conversations with Hillary, among other technical details. When Hillary speaks with the FBI she wouldn't tell them something different from what Pags said, right?
I don't see why she would. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Because not talking to them generally greatly increases the chance of indictment for most people. The risk is in getting caught in a lie.
Yeah, but that's just academic because obviously Hillary will be completely honest and forthright when interviewed.

 
All those cases have been discussed here, Petraeus, Gonzales, Berger, Deutch.

What do you think of the Deutch case, he was granted clemency by Clinton but he had plead guilty, true?
That's also treated in the article:

“The Deutch case was quite a bit more egregious in terms of, by day, he would approve covert ops and this and that and at night go home and write a diary, a detailed recitation of his day, to include covert programs and the identity of covert operatives,” said Bill Leonard, former director of the federal Information Security and Oversight Office, a clearinghouse for classification standards and disputes in the U.S. Government. “He was actually creating these documents.”
Bottom line of the article is that there has to be some sort of aggravating factor to warrant prosecution, and there isn't one in Clintons' case. It is telling that they spoke to a number of experts and the only person who thinks there should/will be charges is former mayor and current Fox News caricature Rudy Giuliani. One gets the feeling that they reached out to him only because they needed some "balance" and knew he'd be willing to parrot whatever line of BS that anti-Clinton forces are running with these days.

 
Yeah, but that's just academic because obviously Hillary will be completely honest and forthright when interviewed.
Of course. I guess my point is one reason to immunize Pags is to validate what Hillary tells them. If they weren't serious or had no concerns Hillary could have committed a crime they would not have done that.

 
Based on primary results - I think, yes, it is inconceivable that a "large portion" of the democratic voters want Clinton.

Lets say 50-55% of the voters want Clinton - how many of those voters want Clinton because she is a woman?  How many want her to be a 3rd Obama term?

Let say 25% want her to be an historic 1st female president.  50% want her to be Obama's third term, and 25% really just don't like Bernie (which would be incredibly high, given his favorability ratings with the Democrats)

So, out of the democrats, 12% want her to be the first female president, 25-30% want her to continue Obama's presidency, 12% hate Bernie, and 45+% would rather have Bernie than Clinton. 
:lmao:

"Here, let me just make up a bunch of statistics."

 
That's also treated in the article:

Bottom line of the article is that there has to be some sort of aggravating factor to warrant prosecution, and there isn't one in Clintons' case. It is telling that they spoke to a number of experts and the only person who thinks there should/will be charges is former mayor and current Fox News caricature Rudy Giuliani. One gets the feeling that they reached out to him only because they needed some "balance" and knew he'd be willing to parrot whatever line of BS that anti-Clinton forces are running with these days.
I do think the Politico article is good but those cases have been discussed.

I agree Giuliani isn't a good expert on this. Bfs has posted articles with a more varied range of opinions. However I think the stat that Politico offered in referral decisions is more persuasive.

I think three questions still need to be answered and let me know if you have any thoughts on them:

- why was the server seized?

- why was Pagliano granted immunity?

- why did the FBI take over the investigation and shut down State's in early February?

 
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Based on primary results - I think, yes, it is inconceivable that a "large portion" of the democratic voters want Clinton.

Lets say 50-55% of the voters want Clinton - how many of those voters want Clinton because she is a woman?  How many want her to be a 3rd Obama term?

Let say 25% want her to be an historic 1st female president.  50% want her to be Obama's third term, and 25% really just don't like Bernie (which would be incredibly high, given his favorability ratings with the Democrats)

So, out of the democrats, 12% want her to be the first female president, 25-30% want her to continue Obama's presidency, 12% hate Bernie, and 45+% would rather have Bernie than Clinton. 
Yeah because she isn't leading Bernie 56%-42% in votes cast so far.  What would the percentage have to be to qualify as a "large" percentage?

 
:lmao:

"Here, let me just make up a bunch of statistics."
90% of stats are made up on the spot.

But, the larger point remains - if a "large portion" of democratic voters wanted Clinton, she would have the nomination wrapped up by now.  Instead, Democrats in key Dem states like Washington, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota...have overwhelmingly said they prefer someone other than Clinton...

 
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