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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (7 Viewers)

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Sinn Fein said:
Well, we don't get to elect, nor confirm the SOS, now do we?

Ultimately she had responsibility to clean up the IT stuff, if it was a mess.  She passed the buck, because it was not a very politically rewarding move.  Racking up frequent flyer miles looks a lot better than actually getting something useful done.
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I agree that addressing the IT infrastructure is likely a major shortcoming of Hillary's tenure, but selling short Hillary's role of restoring the credibility of the US in the aftermath of "Cowboy diplomacy" is ignorant at best!

 
I mean hell's bells Hillary is a lawyer - might as well claim privilege in every ### ####ed word she wrote and pull it down off the State Department website.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Sinn Fein said:
Well, we don't get to elect, nor confirm the SOS, now do we?

Ultimately she had responsibility to clean up the IT stuff, if it was a mess.  She passed the buck, because it was not a very politically rewarding move.  Racking up frequent flyer miles looks a lot better than actually getting something useful done.
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I agree that addressing the IT infrastructure is likely a major shortcoming of Hillary's tenure, but selling short Hillary's role of restoring the credibility of the US in the aftermath of "Cowboy diplomacy" is ignorant at best!
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credibility with whom?

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
I agree that addressing the IT infrastructure is likely a major shortcoming of Hillary's tenure, but selling short Hillary's role of restoring the credibility of the US in the aftermath of "Cowboy diplomacy" is ignorant at best!
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Well, the world still hates us.  Obama calls Libya his worst mistake - which many cite as Clinton's best accomplishment.  Syria?  She let Russia have whatever they wanted in Ukraine.  She really has no accomplishments.  I know she got the ball rolling in Iran, but thats the easy part, and we still have to see how it turns out.

She was great for ISIS though.  So, she has that going for her.

 
tommyGunZ said:
I have no idea.  I'd estimate my time spent at well over 5 minutes, but likely under the hundreds of hours you, Ham, and Saints have spent reviewing the details.

I may be wrong. Certainly wouldn't be the first time, nor the last. I just think that the story is way overblown. The reality is compliance with email retention policies has never been a priority issue, and it's only one now because lots of folks have a political interest in making it an issue. 

I certainly don't remember the 22 million emails deleted by the Bush administion causing this much uproar, do you?  Was there even a thread about it?  
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Listen, I know YOU think you're fooling everyone and getting away with it, but all of us here realize what you're doing.  By minimizing this to an "email retention policy" you think you can make it sound like the issue is trivial, but rest assured that your "well over 5 minutes" is not nearly enough time to diagnose the issue like this.  Had you spent any time looking at anything other than HRC Talking Points, you would see how this is NOT an "email retention policy".  It goes to the much larger issues of trust, judgement and transparency - none of which HRC posses.   And from a LEGAL perspective, what she did would land anyone else in jail or out of a job or both.

So while we know you think you're being sly with your "email retention policy" shtick, just don't think you're fooling anyone but yourself.

 
The Commish said:
left out the word "many"....edited again
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If by handpicked do you mean when I wen to the polls in April and I hand selected as a voter X men and X + 1  women (I think) to serve as pledged delegates  at the convention to represent me?   (Well other voter's in MD elected delegates that actually won, mine all lost,)  Do you mean the super delegates that are unpledged delegates on the basis of holding a particular defined elected office?  Or being ex-presidents?  Or, maybe you mean those that hold specific defined jobs within the DNC?   I'm not sure how "hand picked" defines any of these delegates?   

 
Henry Ford said:
If the ultimate conclusion you drew was that Hillary Clinton violated her duties and the law by failing to preserve communications, failing to place those communications into archives of the Department of State and/or Federal government generally, and by creating an unauthorized private email server system outside the review and retention policies and enforcement of the Federal Government, then yes.  I also agree with your mitigating language.  And failure to adhere to retention policies and laws is hardly the level of offense that should lead to impeachment or a war crimes tribunal or anything, though it is important.

Of course, all of that is separate and apart from the content of the emails themselves and any investigations related thereto.  More disconcerting is that it appears now that virtually every position taken by Clinton with respect to her emails that could be addressed by the report has been debunked.  That seems problematic.
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So Hillary lied?   Shocker indeed.

Nice post by the way.  Succinct.

 
Trump is beating Hillary in Oregon.  Its early.  Lots of things can happen.  But Trump is currently beating Clinton in Oregon.  Amazing to watch and see if it actually holds up.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Well, the world still hates us.  Obama calls Libya his worst mistake - which many cite as Clinton's best accomplishment.  Syria?  She let Russia have whatever they wanted in Ukraine.  She really has no accomplishments.  I know she got the ball rolling in Iran, but thats the easy part, and we still have to see how it turns out.

She was great for ISIS though.  So, she has that going for her.
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What nonsense!   

 
Riversco said:
Trump is beating Hillary in Oregon.  Its early.  Lots of things can happen.  But Trump is currently beating Clinton in Oregon.  Amazing to watch and see if it actually holds up.
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Also tied in NH, per Boston Herald and yes I know what that means but really it should not be close.

 
If Hillary steps aside we get a Sanders presidency and the world is a better place because of it. If she stays in then we get a Trump presidency and the doomsday clock moves to 11:59 and change. Will she for once in her life be a patriot and do the right thing for the country? Or will she put her own self interests ahead of every man, woman and child on the planet? I think we know the answer to that question which is why we need an indictment sooner rather than later. God bless Bernie for staying in this thing.  A true man of the people who knows the movement he's created will live on long after he's gone.  A man who walks the walk and is committed to making this country and the world a better place. He's been up the mountain, looked over and seen the promised land.  He may not get there with us but he knows as a people, we'll get there.  Thank you Bernie.


 

 
Willie Neslon said:
If Hillary steps aside we get a Sanders presidency and the world is a better place because of it. If she stays in then we get a Trump presidency and the doomsday clock moves to 11:59 and change. Will she for once in her life be a patriot and do the right thing for the country? Or will she put her own self interests ahead of every man, woman and child on the planet? I think we know the answer to that question which is why we need an indictment sooner rather than later. God bless Bernie for staying in this thing.  A true man of the people who knows the movement he's created will live on long after he's gone.  A man who walks the walk and is committed to making this country and the world a better place. He's been up the mountain, looked over and seen the promised land.  He may not get there with us but he knows as a people, we'll get there.  Thank you Bernie.


 
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I'm not convinced the Trump would be any better or any worse than Clinton.  This whole "sky is falling" shtick with Trump is unfounded.  We have no idea what will happen with a Trump presidency.

 
Willie Neslon said:
If Hillary steps aside we get a Sanders presidency and the world is a better place because of it. If she stays in then we get a Trump presidency and the doomsday clock moves to 11:59 and change. Will she for once in her life be a patriot and do the right thing for the country? Or will she put her own self interests ahead of every man, woman and child on the planet? I think we know the answer to that question which is why we need an indictment sooner rather than later. God bless Bernie for staying in this thing.  A true man of the people who knows the movement he's created will live on long after he's gone.  A man who walks the walk and is committed to making this country and the world a better place. He's been up the mountain, looked over and seen the promised land.  He may not get there with us but he knows as a people, we'll get there.  Thank you Bernie.
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:yawn:

 
Dang, reading this stuff makes Trump look like the honest and ethical candidate.  How can you Hillary people support a dishonest bigot?  Still can't see myself supporting a flawed candidate, but it may maybe Tim can convince me to change my mind and vote Trump.

 
The irony of Clinton, and her surrogates, using her SOS time as some sort of accomplishment is that she was really doing Obama's bidding at the time - none of it was hers.

When she left she had some rather unkind words for how Obama pursued foreign policy.

For the 19 months since Hillary Rodham Clinton departed as President Obama’s secretary of state, she and Mr. Obama, and their staffs, have labored to preserve a veneer of unity over how they worked together and how they view the world.

On Sunday, the veneer shattered — the victim of Mrs. Clinton’s remarkably blunt interview with Jeffrey Goldberg, a writer for The Atlantic, in which she criticized not just Mr. Obama’s refusal to aid the rebels in Syria, but his shorthand description of his entire foreign policy.

“Great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle,” Mrs. Clinton said, referring to the line that Mr. Obama has used with aides and reporters to describe his reluctance to inject the United States into messy foreign conflicts.

Mrs. Clinton said she assumed the line was more a “political message” for a war-weary American public than his worldview — an interpretation that makes her words even more stinging, since “Don’t do stupid stuff” was in fact the animating principle for the foreign-policy blueprint that Mr. Obama laid out in a speech at West Point in May.

That Mrs. Clinton is more hawkish than Mr. Obama is no surprise to anyone who watched a Democratic primary debate in 2008. Her policy differences with the president during his first term were well documented, though they were less about underlying strategy than tactics.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I'm not convinced the Trump would be any better or any worse than Clinton.  This whole "sky is falling" shtick with Trump is unfounded.  We have no idea what will happen with a Trump presidency.
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I think he's unqualified and will spend the majority of his time in office settling personal scores and "correcting" op-eds. I don't even think he'd run for a 2nd term.  Once he wins the presidential election he's reached the summit and the ego attains maximum inflation. He's won. As far as what his presidency would be like, I agree with you that it wouldn't be as bad as his campaign rhetoric. He's just trying to get the rubes to vote for him. I thought his campaign would be a joke that lasted 2 weeks.  Say what you want about the guy but his shtick has been genius.  Nobody gave the guy a legitimate chance and he rather easily disposed of all comers. I honestly think Hillary will be the easiest opponent of all for him. He's going to eviscerate her.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I'm not convinced the Trump would be any better or any worse than Clinton.  This whole "sky is falling" shtick with Trump is unfounded.  We have no idea what will happen with a Trump presidency.
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I don't think I could ever bring myself to vote for Trump - but I tend to agree.  Trump is a wild card, but I don't really get the impression he would get us embroiled in a conflict.  He sort of reminds me of the crazy guy that nobody wants to poke, because there is no telling how he'll react.

With Clinton, I am more worried about getting involved in a military conflict - she is much more hawkish than even the guys who says we should bomb europe.

 
Not an accomplishment so to say for Hillary, but according to her, her daughter was walking around the block when the World Trade Center was hit on 9/11.  According to Hillary her child is lucky to be alive.  Chelsea was no nowhere close but "What does it matter now"?   Just can't support a serial liar like that & it's been a pattern.

Sorry for piling on Hillary(named after Sir Edmond Hillary by the way-according to her), but she makes it so easy with her lies.  IMO she wants power for powers sake and nothing in her past actions will override that distinct impression I have.  I hope I'm wrong.

 
dparker713 said:
You're entirely ignoring the risk of pushing Hillary aside and alienating the millions that have already voted for her.  The time to shove her aside would have been before the primaries - its too late now absent something significantly more substantive than the OIG report.
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The OIG findings are plenty enough.  I'm not worried about alienating those who support a recidivist criminal.  As Tim likes to say in regard to Bernie Sanders supporters...they'll come around if the alternative is Trump.

 
Willie Neslon said:
I think he's unqualified and will spend the majority of his time in office settling personal scores and "correcting" op-eds. I don't even think he'd run for a 2nd term.  Once he wins the presidential election he's reached the summit and the ego attains maximum inflation. He's won. As far as what his presidency would be like, I agree with you that it wouldn't be as bad as his campaign rhetoric. He's just trying to get the rubes to vote for him. I thought his campaign would be a joke that lasted 2 weeks.  Say what you want about the guy but his shtick has been genius.  Nobody gave the guy a legitimate chance and he rather easily disposed of all comers. I honestly think Hillary will be the easiest opponent of all for him. He's going to eviscerate her.
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Obama was just as unqualified - probably even more so - yet people voted for him in droves.  So whenever I hear a liberal (not saying you are) talk of wanting their candidates "qualified", I laugh hysterically at the sheer hypocrisy of that statement.

I agree, qualifications would be great, but unless everyone is willing to apply it consistently to all candidates then it's nothing more than wishful thinking.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
If by handpicked do you mean when I wen to the polls in April and I hand selected as a voter X men and X + 1  women (I think) to serve as pledged delegates  at the convention to represent me?   (Well other voter's in MD elected delegates that actually won, mine all lost,)  Do you mean the super delegates that are unpledged delegates on the basis of holding a particular defined elected office?  Or being ex-presidents?  Or, maybe you mean those that hold specific defined jobs within the DNC?   I'm not sure how "hand picked" defines any of these delegates?   
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Link

Finally, let’s talk about everyone’s favorite scenario: No candidate gets a majority of delegates, and we head to a “contested convention.” What happens then? Could delegates that a candidate “won” in a primary end up voting for another candidate at the convention?

So this gets at whether a convention delegate is “bound” to a candidate – that is, they are obligated by the rules to vote for that candidate – or whether they’re merely “pledged” to that candidate.

Democratic rules do not refer to bound delegates. The delegates are seemingly only loosely pledged to a candidate based on the results of the primaries and caucuses.

But that loose pledge is stronger than it would appear. In some states, candidates hand-pick delegates and file their names with the state or party. Any delegates the candidates win come from this list, and so the bond between candidate and delegate is likely to be strong. In general, pledged Democratic delegates are likely to be loyal to their candidate if that candidate is still viable and has not “released” the delegates to vote for another candidate.

Meanwhile, the Democratic convention also features “superdelegates” – most of whom are party leaders – who are unpledged and free to choose a candidate regardless of the results in the primaries and caucuses.
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Yes, traditionally they select people of X position or Y affluence, but they aren't required to.

 
Sinn Fein said:
What did she do as SOS?

4 years - what are her accomplishments?
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Lets see, off the top of my head:

  • Sanctions against Iran that led to nuclear deal
  • China's agreement at Copenhagen (?) to reduce carbon emissions
  • Ceasefire deal between Israel ad Hamas
  • START with Russia
  • Groundwork for Cuba
  • Seems by most accounts to have an elevated role in the Osama decision
  • Libya is obviously still up in the air and may turn out as a negative
  • As is Myanmar
  • Oh and rebuilt the relationships with our allies that were strained with the "your with us, or against us" nonsense..
  • ...while spreading values including but not limited to treatment of women and children around the world.
 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Lets see, off the top of my head:

  • Sanctions against Iran that led to nuclear deal
  • China's agreement at Copenhagen (?) to reduce carbon emissions
  • Ceasefire deal between Israel ad Hamas
  • START with Russia
  • Groundwork for Cuba
  • Seems by most accounts to have an elevated role in the Osama decision
  • Libya is obviously still up in the air and may turn out as a negative
  • As is Myanmar
  • Oh and rebuilt the relationships with our allies that were strained with the "your with us, or against us" nonsense..
  • ...while spreading values including but not limited to treatment of women and children around the world.
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Oh, Jesus H. Christ. :lmao:

 
MaxThreshold said:
Obama was just as unqualified - probably even more so - yet people voted for him in droves.  So whenever I hear a liberal (not saying you are) talk of wanting their candidates "qualified", I laugh hysterically at the sheer hypocrisy of that statement.

I agree, qualifications would be great, but unless everyone is willing to apply it consistently to all candidates then it's nothing more than wishful thinking.
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Obama and Trump are incomparable.  Obama absolutely was qualified.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I'm not convinced the Trump would be any better or any worse than Clinton.  This whole "sky is falling" shtick with Trump is unfounded.  We have no idea what will happen with a Trump presidency.
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I think both would be bad.

She would most likely be another 4-8 years of Obama.  To the right, that is the worst ever.  To most, that is not great, but not terrible.  Internationally, I don't think she gets us into anything (but also don't think she handles issues that well.

Trump?  He can't control his mouth.  What happens when he says these things and is the President?  How does the market react to a leader saying such things?  I think he is more likely to get us into something crappy internationally.  Something we don't belong in at all.  He would have to surround himself with great people (not "they will be great, trust me"...but real great people).

I have zero faith in either of them being good.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Lets see, off the top of my head:

  • Sanctions against Iran that led to nuclear deal
  • China's agreement at Copenhagen (?) to reduce carbon emissions
  • Ceasefire deal between Israel ad Hamas
  • START with Russia
  • Groundwork for Cuba
  • Seems by most accounts to have an elevated role in the Osama decision
  • Libya is obviously still up in the air and may turn out as a negative
  • As is Myanmar
  • Oh and rebuilt the relationships with our allies that were strained with the "your with us, or against us" nonsense..
  • ...while spreading values including but not limited to treatment of women and children around the world.
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:lmao:  Can't forget that one, a favorite of Tim's, too.  What does this even mean?  

 
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Willie Neslon said:
He was a Columbia and Harvard Law educated constitutional scholar.  He taught constitutional law for 12 years. A state and US senator.
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That's like reading a book on How to Play in the NFL and thinking you can play in the NFL after you're done.  It's a horse#### qualification.  And his years in the Senate were unremarkable at best.

Besides, his last 8 years have shown he's anything BUT a Constitutional Scholar the way he's been trampling all over it with.

 
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MaxThreshold said:
That's like reading a book on How to Play in the NFL and thinking you can play in the NFL after you're done.  It's a horse#### qualification.  Besides, his last 8 years have shown he's anything BUT a Constitutional Scholar the way he's been trampling all over it with.
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This is an argument for another thread that I'm just not interested in having.

 
Willie Neslon said:
This is an argument for another thread that I'm just not interested in having.
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Hey, I respect you Willie.  I wasn't trying to be an ###.  I just think that his years "teaching" didn't prepare him for anything.  Experience is usually the best indicator, IMO, none of which he had.  NO private sector experience at all to boot.

 
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Just heard an interview with Hillary on MSNBC. She was very clear about the email story, maintained what she's said all along, and did not appear to contradict earlier statements. She also hotly denied telling anyone not to discuss it. 

 
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