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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

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Rohn Jambo said:
Black Lives Matter Coalition is learning from Bernie and making political demands.  Do you think Hillary will listen?

"As part of the effort, the groups are demanding, among other things, reparations for what they say are past and continuing harms to African-Americans, an end to the death penalty, legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, as well as investments in education initiatives, mental health services and jobs programs."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/black-lives-matter-campaign.html?_r=0
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Don't most groups make political demands? I am sure the NRA has made demands on the Republican platform and presidential candidate. I see nothing wrong with BLM making those demands. It's there right. I agree with most of them, not really sure about the legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, but most of the others I agree with.

Why wouldn't she listen?

 
Riversco said:
Hillary has a bounce going now!  Looking at past polling, the candidate that got the bounce after both conventions ended won every election except in 1980

In 1980, Carter got the big bounce coming out of the conventions and held almost a double digit lead in October 1980.  Reagan somehow closed the gap and won 49 states.  There have been some near-misses.   I was skeptical Hillary would get a bounce but she has, and that is tremendously good news for her.  I think we can all but dismiss Trump as a threat.
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Reagan won 44 in 80. He won 49 against Mondale. Not that it affects your point.

 
Riversco said:
Hillary has a bounce going now!  Looking at past polling, the candidate that got the bounce after both conventions ended won every election except in 1980.

In 1980, Carter got the big bounce coming out of the conventions and held almost a double digit lead in October 1980.  Reagan somehow closed the gap and won 49 states.  There have been some near-misses.   I was skeptical Hillary would get a bounce but she has, and that is tremendously good news for her.  I think we can all but dismiss Trump as a threat.
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Even if people keep calling him an orange dim witted, small handed, bigoted, narcisistic, Mussolini-lite?

 
badmojo1006 said:
Don't most groups make political demands? I am sure the NRA has made demands on the Republican platform and presidential candidate. I see nothing wrong with BLM making those demands. It's there right. I agree with most of them, not really sure about the legislation to acknowledge the effects of slavery, but most of the others I agree with.

Why wouldn't she listen?
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I also agree Hillary should do everything she can to help Africa Americans.  I hope does a lot more than just listen.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I think that's what it requires at this point.  She's still not well liked at all, but Trump is despised, and I think this Khan thing is really causing folks to seethe.  It's not that, in a vacuum, it's any worse than the other crap spewing from trump's brain on a day to day basis.  It just seems to hit home and his who attack on the family is antithetical to American exceptionality, which he needs as his message--not to sabotage it.

Hillary's big vulnerability here is if some boogie man jumps out of the wikileaks thing, connects all the dots with the Foundation and pay for play schemes, and whatever else might be lurking.  But, absent those fantasies and/or an abysmal/embarrassing debate performance, Hillary wins this thing.
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meh. Average voter will think they are talking about Khan Noonien Singh.

 
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/oh-mayor-restricted-trump-crowd-size-today-campaigned-hillary-yesterday/

Crooked Hillary at it again. Even with the help of corrupt local officials Trump crowds resemble a Super Bowl Champion's Parade while hers resemble an FFA Corn Hole. 

I'll give her credit, she won't stop until she is behind bars or in the ground. 

Trump rally in Mechanicsburg, PA:

https://twitter.com/danscavino/status/760282450807390213

ETA: His overflow rooms are 10x bigger than a Hillary rally. :lmao:

 
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chauncey said:
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/oh-mayor-restricted-trump-crowd-size-today-campaigned-hillary-yesterday/

Crooked Hillary at it again. Even with the help of corrupt local officials Trump crowds resemble a Super Bowl Champion's Parade while hers resemble an FFA Corn Hole. 

I'll give her credit, she won't stop until she is behind bars or in the ground. 
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Per @AdamATCBS, who just spoke w/ Columbus Fire Department, Trump campaign and event staff agreed to limit attendees to 1,000 four days ago:

I guess the secret US Society of Fire Marshalls (USSFM) has it out for Trump

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Yeah I don't think she's looking back now.

Over 50 at this stage is ridiculous.

And they're both totally known quantities.

The timing of the Khan thing has been unbelievable. Just when any remaining voters who could not make up their mind had finally emerged from balancing both conventions, Donald hits them with almost the most unacceptable attack imaginable. He does that at just that key moment.
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Trump doesn't have a winning temperament. He's a loser.

 
New Nickname - Lying Donald, Crazy Donald or Grifter Donald?


Makes Nixon look like George Washington. Maybe it took the George S. interview to really sink in, but I'm seriously starting to realize Trump might be, and probably is the most pathological liar I can recall advancing this far in a US Presidential race (if you only read one article below, or even one synopsis/excerpt, make it The facts behind Donald Trump’s many falsehoods).  


1) Is Donald Trump just plain crazy? Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-donald-trump-just-plain-crazy/2016/08/01/cd171e86-581d-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html

2) Donald Trump's bad 72 hours - CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/donald-trump-khizr-khan-ukraine/

3) Why the Donald is dangerous - The Economist (warning from last year, as relevant as ever)

http://discover.economist.com/?a=21663225&cid1=d/dsp/Outbrain/dyn/21663225/20160330-00:00am/paid/display-LA/BR-PO/BRP3/n/subs/US/BR-LIT&cid3=UM

4) Lies, Lies and More Lies - Washington Post 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/08/01/lies-lies-and-more-lies/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b

From the comments - "I saw a dismal CNN report on this where the lazy reporter said there was no evidence of Trump changing the GOP platform on Ukraine, claimed the doubts about Trump are based solely on Manafort's history with Yanukovych, and quoted Trump's foreign policy advisor Michael Flynn saying it was all a fuss over nothing. He failed to note (or learn) that Flynn himself -- as soon as he'd been fired from the DIA and forced out of the military, ran off and became a Russia Today analyst, and appeared as a paid speaker for the Russian government. So Flynn is actually a paid Putin employee in Donald Trump's campaign assuring us that Manafort is not one."

5) >>>>>>>>>>>>The facts behind Donald Trump’s many falsehoods - The Washington Post<<<<<<<<<<<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-facts-behind-donald-trumps-many-falsehoods/2016/08/01/0571b048-582d-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html

Certainly, Clinton tells whoppers, too. But Glenn Kessler, The Post’s Fact Checker, tells me that in his six years on the beat, “there’s no comparison” between Trump and other politicians. Kessler says politicians’ statements get his worst rating — four Pinocchios — 15 percent to 20 percent of the time. Clinton is about 15 percent. Trump is 63 percent to 65 percent.

PolitiFact, similarly, rated Clinton statements false 28 percent of the time (including 2 percent rating “pants on fire,” the worst rating), while rating 70 percent of Trump statements false (including 17 percent “pants on fire”).

Journalists hesitate to call these falsehoods “lies” because it’s hard to know whether ignorance or malice is to blame. But in Trump’s case, there’s a third possibility that is particularly alarming: He may not be able to tell fact from fiction.

“Lying is second nature to him,” Tony Schwartz, Trump’s ghostwriter for “The Art of the Deal,” told the New Yorker’s Jane Mayer in an article published last month. “More than anyone else I have ever met, Trump has the ability to convince himself that whatever he is saying at any given moment is true, or sort of true, or at least ought to be true.”


6) The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet - The Atlantic 


The sordid story of the Trump Institute is a sequel to the damaging tale of Trump University.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-scandals/474726/


Refusing to Pay Workers and Contractors


Where and when: various, 1980s-present

The dirt: Contractors, waiters, dishwashers, and plumbers who have worked at Trump projects say that his company stiffed them for work, refusing to pay for services rendered. USA Today did a lengthy review, finding that some of those contracts were for hundreds of thousands of dollars, many owed to small businesses that failed or struggled to continue because of unpaid bills. (Trump was also found to have improperly withheld compensation in the undocumented Polish worker controversy.)

The upshot: Trump has offered various excuses, including shoddy workmanship, but the scale of the problem—hundreds of allegations—makes that hard to credit. In some cases, even the lawyers Trump has hired to defend him have sued him for failing to pony up their fees. In one lawsuit, a Trump employee admitted in court that a painter was stiffed because managers determined they had “already paid enough.” The cases are damaging because they show Trump not driving a hard bargain with other businesses, but harming ordinary, hard-working Americans.

Read more: USA Today, The Wall Street Journal


7) Joe McCarthy was brought down by attacks on his decency. Trump will lose the same way.




What the Khans can teach us about the Republican nominee's vulnerabilities. - Washington Post



https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/01/joe-mccarthy-was-brought-down-by-attacks-on-his-decency-trump-will-lose-the-same-way/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b

8) Donald Trump’s Confrontation With Muslim Soldier’s Parents Emerges as Unexpected Flash Point - New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/politics/khizr-khan-ghazala-donald-trump-muslim-soldier.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article

"Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, who is seeking re-election, said the Khans deserved the utmost respect: “I am appalled that Donald Trump would disparage them and that he had the gall to compare his own sacrifices to those of a Gold Star family.”

"Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, said on Sunday that Mr. Trump had crossed another inviolable line. Like his comments about Judge Curiel, Mr. Graham said, Mr. Trump’s jabs at Mr. and Ms. Khan were unacceptable. “This is going to a place where we’ve never gone before, to push back against the families of the fallen,” he said."

"He added, “The problem is, ‘unacceptable’ doesn’t even begin to describe it.”

"Representative Mike Coffman of Colorado, a Republican who served in combat as a Marine and now represents a crucial swing district in the Denver suburbs, said Mr. Trump had disrespected American troops. “Having served in Iraq, I’m deeply offended when Donald Trump fails to honor the sacrifices of all of our brave soldiers who were lost in that war,” Mr. Coffman said."

9) Ghazala Khan Is a Gold Star Mother. Here’s What That Means. - New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/ghazala-khan-is-a-gold-star-mother-heres-what-that-means.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article


How do veterans groups view the controversy?


“In the military and veterans community, Gold Star families are sacred,” said Paul Rieckhoff, the founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. “They’re a group of people who uniquely understand the price of freedom and the cost of war.”

Mr. Rieckhoff said the respect afforded to those families cut across political lines.

“Any attack on them will be faced with a swift and overwhelming response,” he said. “We owe it to our brothers and sisters who have died to defend their families.”

10) Monday's Nightline ran the Trump headline - Tripling Down. It alluded to Trump vowing to unite the country (hehe) and how in a case of unintended blowback he has. A large cross-section of America from both sides of the aisle has coalesced into a growing crescendo of repudiation.

A few observations:

After so many earlier insane tactics beyond the pale (I like soldiers that don't get captured) that miraculously evaporated without sticking to the Teflon Don, the past 48-72 hours appear to have Trump reeling - with the unpleasant surprise of a boxer always used to going forward getting caught right on the button by a haymaker and staggered backwards. Two key campaign members were fired today. If the Wrath of Khan debacle ends up being his undoing, than the Clinton DNC speech reference to his being vulnerable to tweet bait was like a Babe Ruth shot. They called it. With a prospective ban on Muslim immigration, it would be incredible if from that very religion the father and mother end up wielding a death blow to the (at the time) ascendant campaign of a Populist Presidential candidate the likes of which the country may not have seen in over a century. The unlikelihood of that happening, is somewhat akin to the chances of blowing up the first Death Star in Star Wars (Donald Star?). Their son died heroically, and it is almost as if his spirit has lived on, expertly aimed by his Harvard Law educated patriarch like a thunderbolt at the gangrenous, putrefying, dead hole in the center of Trump's chest cavity where most humans have a heart.          

11) 7/31/16 This Week Trump interview by George Stephanopoulos (VIDEO 20 minutes), a KEY COUNTERPOINT to Khan's DNC speech itself, it is nearly impossible to believe any word that comes out of his mouth after a few minutes of a mind numbing torrent and fire hose of contradictions, evasions, misdirections and just bald faced lies (and on his behalf by campaign manager Manafort earlier in the day, who unblinkingly claimed he had nothing to do with the last minute RNC isolationist Ukraine provision during an interview on Meet The Press). Anyway, I thought George S. did an expert job of exposing Trump (for the charlatan that he is) by doing his homework, thinking on his feet and following up Trump's many blunders by surgically dissecting him into a state of pristine and immaculately heightened, magnified and amplified DISSEMBLING. He directed a klieg light on the deceptions, and like so many roaches under the dumpster that is The Donald's soul, they scurried away for the shelter of darkness.          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWdQD0SANgY 

12) TRUMPTY DUMPTY had a great fall

https://www.google.com/search?q=trumpty+dumpty&biw=1280&bih=603&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwi0n9ntvKLOAhVHyWMKHXkmCdkQ_AUIBigB    

 
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Grace Under Pressure said:
The Commish said:
wait....are we now allowed to look at polls???  Does "national polling" mean a whole lot with this wonderful electoral college we have?
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National polls are highly correlated, but I don't look at them though, no. I also don't like the dates on the Cnn poll. 7/28 was too close to the DNC imo 
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This would explain why I am beginning to see a lot of polling talk in this thread then....thanks :thumbup:   

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Nah, like Trumpites her most hardcore supporters are inoculated from criticism.
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In fairness, Hillary would be losing to any normal candidate.  The email scandal took its toll, but she has the good fortune to be running against a guy who thought it would be a shrewd political move to pick a fight with the family of a fallen soldier. 

 
timschochet said:
The list of prominent Republicans who are supporting Hillary Clinton in this election continues to grow: 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/25/the-biggest-gop-names-backing-hillary-clinton-so-far.html

Some of them warn that Donald Trump is attempting to bring Fascism to the United States- something I warned about months ago and which The Commish mocked me for. 
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No....I mocked you for thinking he could become dictator of the United States.  You keep putting words in my mouth...it's getting kinda weird if not embarrassing at this point Tim.

 
Movin' on up...

Bounce still increasing every 12 hours for Clinton -- it's now something like 4.5-5.4%.  If it gets to 6 or 7 it would be pretty hard to see how Trump gets it back to even.

Also, saw some interesting research yesterday that suggested the ebbs and flows in the polling, and especially the movement around the conventions, doesn't reflect real changes in the state of the race as much as it reflects people being willing to tell pollsters who they're voting for.

Imagine you're a Clinton supporter in mid-July, the e-mail thing is dominating the news, and then the RNC is shouting "She's a witch, she's a witch!" night after night.  Maybe you're not as anxious to speak your mind about the fact you're still voting for her.  But then, after the Midnight in America show ends and the DNC resurrects Kate Smith to sing God Bless America astride a Lord of the Rings style Eagle soaring over Ground Zero while John Phillips Sousa leads the band down Broadway through a tickertape blizzard, you think "damn straight I'm voting for Clinton and I don't care who knows it."

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
In fairness, Hillary would be losing to any normal candidate.  The email scandal took its toll, but she has the good fortune to be running against a guy who thought it would be a shrewd political move to pick a fight with the family of a fallen soldier. 
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In fairness, all the normal candidates are democrats.

 
wdcrob said:
Movin' on up...

Bounce still increasing every 12 hours for Clinton -- it's now something like 4.5-5.4%.  If it gets to 6 or 7 it would be pretty hard to see how Trump gets it back to even.

Also, saw some interesting research yesterday that suggested the ebbs and flows in the polling, and especially the movement around the conventions, doesn't reflect real changes in the state of the race as much as it reflects people being willing to tell pollsters who they're voting for.

Imagine you're a Clinton supporter in mid-July, the e-mail thing is dominating the news, and then the RNC is shouting "She's a witch, she's a witch!" night after night.  Maybe you're not as anxious to speak your mind about the fact you're still voting for her.  But then, after the Midnight in America show ends and the DNC resurrects Kate Smith to sing God Bless America on a Lord of the Rings style Eagle soaring over Ground Zero while John Phillips Sousa leads the band down Broadway, you think "damn straight I'm voting for Clinton and I don't care who knows it."
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I posted it in the Trump thread but this last RNC convention was the first convention of either party (going back to 84 or so) to have a net negative result in terms of people saying they might consider voting for a nominee after the convention was over. The timing of what has gone on and the tone of it has been remarkable.

 
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The Commish said:
No....I mocked you for thinking he could become dictator of the United States.  You keep putting words in my mouth...it's getting kinda weird if not embarrassing at this point Tim.
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What I wrote originally is that if Trump were president and if we had a major terrorist attack on the US (like a nuclear bomb going off in one of our cities) I could see Trump attempt to become a dictator. I never said he'd get away with it. Even so I'm not seeing the distinction between that and guys like Robert Kagan warning that Trump is bringing us fascism. 

You have put words in my mouth much more than I have in yours. 

 
timschochet said:
What I wrote originally is that if Trump were president and if we had a major terrorist attack on the US (like a nuclear bomb going off in one of our cities) I could see Trump attempt to become a dictator. I never said he'd get away with it. Even so I'm not seeing the distinction between that and guys like Robert Kagan warning that Trump is bringing us fascism. 

You have put words in my mouth much more than I have in yours. 
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You asked me and others if I had a problem with Trump becoming dictator because that's what he'd try to do.  There's no point to the question if you don't think it could happen Tim.  I'm surprised it took you this long to begin the backtrack.  I've put no words in your mouth.  Perhaps I have completely misunderstood what you were trying to say.  That's entirely possible given the garbage that's been coming out, like your bold sentence.  Fascism is a product of a dictator being in place in the first place.  

 
The Commish said:
You asked me and others if I had a problem with Trump becoming dictator because that's what he'd try to do.  There's no point to the question if you don't think it could happen Tim.  I'm surprised it took you this long to begin the backtrack.  I've put no words in your mouth.  Perhaps I have completely misunderstood what you were trying to say.  That's entirely possible given the garbage that's been coming out, like your bold sentence.  Fascism is a product of a dictator being in place in the first place.  
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I do think it could happen, which is why I wrote it. Not saying it will, but it could. And it scares the hell out of me, like everything about this guy and his movement. 

 
timschochet said:
Good article about why Hillary is (currently) wrong about free trade: 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-griswold-globalization-and-trade-help-manufacturing-20160801-snap-story.html
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We are on the cusp of exponential growth in several technologies.  Technology is the beast that our next President must confront: robotics, automation, AI.  I work with these things every day, and the platforms we're building are one, maybe two generations away (4-8 years max) from displacing 30-50% of the workforce associated with them, and diluting the value of all but maybe the top 30% who drive innovation and maintain the tech stack.  Jobs are not being created in proportion to the ones being displaced. Meanwhile, more jobs can be outsourced and ceded to the giant tech companies, shifting the center of economic value East.  It's not good and unless we are working proactively to understand how these massive changes will affect the American workforce, we are going to see a massive amount of wealth sucked out of our economy. This is a certainty, and should inform our trade strategy. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It is only august. Lets not go nuts yet. 
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:goodposting:

Also, no matter how good things look at any point between now and November, nobody should rest on their laurels.  This election is unusual because IMO it's not just about winning and losing, it's also about repudiating everything Donald Trump's candidacy stands for as strongly as possible to make sure it doesn't rear its ugly ahead again for a long time.  If we reach late October and Clinton is leading by 7 points in the polls we should go after Georgia and Arizona and Utah and Missouri.

 
squistion said:
:bs:   Max believes anything that is negative about Hillary.,
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As opposed to only believing positive things about Hillary and nothing else.  You and NutCase are the epitome of sycophants.  Jim Jones wished he would have had more zombie followers like you.

 
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I'm guessing Hillary still supports the trade agreement, but it became such a flashpoint of outrage for some voters that it's smarter to table it for now and make the case after the election. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It is only august. Lets not go nuts yet. 
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I think Hillary will pull away as we move into the fall.  When the idea of "President Trump" becomes a real, immediate thing and not just some funny hypothetical, independents and a decent number of Republicans are going to gravitate toward Clinton.  Hillary is terrible, but she's not going to stumble into WW3.  I don't see how anybody can have that degree of confidence in Trump.  Four years of partisan gridlock and public corruption looks like nirvana compared to a Trump presidency.

 
pantagrapher said:
I'm guessing Hillary still supports the trade agreement, but it became such a flashpoint of outrage for some voters that it's smarter to table it for now and make the case after the election. 
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I suspect you're right on this....Tobias, this is one of those situations I was referring to before with respect to Hillary changing her mind, being ok with it etc.  Attempting to hide your real position to get elected isn't really leading and example of the "bad flip flop" I was referring to.

 
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