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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (8 Viewers)

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Sinn Fein said:
Tim you have probably answered this so I apologize, but what significant success can Hillary point to as an accomplishment and say "Here was a problem that I solved" (i.e. What is she going to hang her hat on as a reason to elect her to the top office in the land?) Did she accomplish anything significant as SOS? Senator? She has those experiences, but were they good experiences?

The way I see this playing out, is that the Republican candidate, and their PACs are going to hammer her over a series of "failures", actual or perceived. That is going to be the lasting image of her in most voters minds - what is she going to do to counter that image?

The GOP will hammer her on the trustworthy issues, and as any lawyer will tell you - if you disbelieve a witness on one issue, you are entitled to disbelieve them on all issues.

She can't win, if her platform is I am a democrat and a woman.
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In the end, she tacked on "I am not Trump"

But, I think it has been a fatal flaw from the beginning that she could never settle on a positive theme about why she was running for President, and what she wanted to accomplish.  On that point, Trump's message was "stronger" and obviously resonated with enough people.  Hillary never had that in this entire election.

 
The Commish said:
I think it has to be at the very top of the list, probably the Holy Grail of choke jobs.  I don't think it will ever be surpassed.  I couldn't believe what I was reading when I woke up this morning.
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Somewhere, Warren Moon and Jack Pardee are wondering to each other how Hillary managed to blow such a sure thing.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
What troubles me most though is the continued undermining of our democratic institutions. Not only have Republicans succeeded in de-legitimizing government as a positive agent, but now we see a complete repudiation of the independent press as an arbiter of facts. It's not even just the "liberal" media. Most every conservative media outlet was either openly against or refusing to endorse Trump, pointing out that he's a demagogue, profuse liar, and generally awful human being. Somehow he managed to make the press public enemy #2, and tie them in with Clinton and this idea of a global elite at the root of "everyday American's" problems. I'm not sure where we go from there.
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I agree with the bolded and this is kind of my issue, along with governmental ethics, which are related however this cuts both ways. I think people have been in a reform mood since 2008 and I'm not sure they think they got it. Trump to me is not really about Reform but that is not how people see him. Or rather maybe as to Trump it was not a factor but with Hillary it was.

I think Obama has to realize that he has seriously put his presidency at risk by sticking with the woman whom he personally made a point of toppling on the basis of 'Change'. His original instincts were correct and he should have stuck with them.

Obama should have pushed Hillary out last summer.

Sanders, Biden, Booker, Kaine, and maybe a couple other good candidates with a reform message would have made for a good field.

 
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timschochet said:
Hillary is doomed. Nobody likes her. She's the worst campaigner ever. She's secretive, corrupt, and about to go to jail. Her trust with the American public has fallen to zero. She's losing all the swing states to Republicans. The base of the Democratic Party loves Bernie Sanders and despises Hillary. It's all collapsing!!
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:oldunsure:   This tim guy is pretty smart...

 
TLEF316 said:
Obviously many Hilary supporters will spend the next 4 years crying about how a bunch of ignorant racist rednecks beat their candidate. But the democratic party (the powers that be more-so than the electorate) only has themselves to blame. I'm a youngish (33) educated, well-paid, northeastern social liberal. I'm exactly the sort of person that is supposed to buy into the democratic message (like most of my friends. My facebook feed is a #### show right now.)  I don't vote (and wouldn't have voted for Trump) but even I could see that the Democrats nominated (through an absolute BULL#### process by the way. Still trying to figure out what the #### a superdelegate is. Maybe  Hillary can still win once the supervoters' ballots are counted) the most unlikable and obviously phony candidate in the history of American politics. There was exactly one person who could lose in this scenario, and that's the person they picked to run. 

I've got plenty of reasons why I dislike Hillary Clinton. The one I just was never able to shake was all the money she and her family have taken from Wall Street and other questionable donors. Its ok to take stupid amounts of cash to give bull#### speeches when you've already served your time in office and would just be spending time on the golf course anyway. Its a whole other thing to leave a government position, do speeches for years (raking in 10's of millions of dollars) and then come back and run for office (let alone the presidency) again.

How in the world is anyone with a brain in their head supposed to believe that all these groups didn't expect anything in return?

I think Donald Trump is a terrible human being and unfit to be the President. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not optimistic. But all the Dems had to do was nominate a decent human being with a little experience that normal every day people in middle america could tolerate. They couldn't even do that. They nominated a calculating, dishonest elitist who dressed like a Star Wars character. 
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This same post would have been in reverse had HRC won.

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
What troubles me most though is the continued undermining of our democratic institutions. Not only have Republicans succeeded in de-legitimizing government as a positive agent, but now we see a complete repudiation of the independent press as an arbiter of facts. It's not even just the "liberal" media. Most every conservative media outlet was either openly against or refusing to endorse Trump, pointing out that he's a demagogue, profuse liar, and generally awful human being. Somehow he managed to make the press public enemy #2, and tie them in with Clinton and this idea of a global elite at the root of "everyday American's" problems. I'm not sure where we go from there.
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The press hasn't been an independent arbiter of facts for, what, 30 or more years?  The minute they stepped in bed with the Democrats is the minute they lost any credibility.  It was painfully obvious this election that they were doing everything they could to get their gal elected, but that is how it pretty much is every election.  The Democrats will never know what it's like to have to battle the media day in and day out like the GOP has done for the last 30+ years.  Until that #### changes, they will never hold any credibility anymore.  They need to get back to reporting facts.

 
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By the way, where is @timschochet? I've read through the last 6 hours of posts and NOTHING????

Dude, don't be swinging from a shower rod; an election is not worth going into seclusion over.

 
Rich Conway said:
You can argue that she's incredibly qualified.  Reasonable people might disagree on just how qualified she is to be POTUS.

You can argue that she'll make a good President.  Reasonable people might disagree on just how effective she'll be.

You can argue that she's not especially corrupt (as compared to generic politicians).  Reasonable people might disagree on just how corrupt she is.

But don't argue that she's a good "candidate".  She's a terrible "candidate".  She can't get out of her own way when campaigning.  She stumbles and makes unforced errors at every conceivable opportunity.  Her disdain for average Americans shows through constantly.  Even timschochet has admitted multiple times that she's a terrible campaigner.
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So...

 
pantherclub said:
So no tim?
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Suspended, back tonight. 

Hey Sinn Fein, I always thought she'd win. I got the jitters once in a while (you can see it in this thread) but deep down I was pretty confident that Hillary would pull it out. I was more wrong about that than I've been about any result in my lifetime. I'm pretty devestated right now. 

That being said, if you go back through this thread you'll find that I almost never made the argument, during the primaries, that she was more electable than Bernie. I agreed with that argument, but my own position was that she should be the nominee because I preferred her views to Bernie. That is still true. Still, if I could control stuff and go back in time I would gladly have Bernie win the primaries if it meant him defeating Donald Trump. And FWIW I'm sorry that I didn't. I'm sick to my stomach right now. 

 
not a Trump fan but at least we can put the Clintons out to pasture after she gives her speech this morning..  

still stunned about WI and PA :shock:     she really is disliked

 
Adam West said:
Suspended, back tonight. 

Hey Sinn Fein, I always thought she'd win. I got the jitters once in a while (you can see it in this thread) but deep down I was pretty confident that Hillary would pull it out. I was more wrong about that than I've been about any result in my lifetime. I'm pretty devestated right now. 

That being said, if you go back through this thread you'll find that I almost never made the argument, during the primaries, that she was more electable than Bernie. I agreed with that argument, but my own position was that she should be the nominee because I preferred her views to Bernie. That is still true. Still, if I could control stuff and go back in time I would gladly have Bernie win the primaries if it meant him defeating Donald Trump. And FWIW I'm sorry that I didn't. I'm sick to my stomach right now. 
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Tim, you are right about not saying she stood a better chance than Bernie - that was Squish and Gunz.  Still, I think you grossly miscalculated how much she was disliked.  She's lost to a guy that has the worst approval ratings ever.

 
Adam West said:
Suspended, back tonight. 

Hey Sinn Fein, I always thought she'd win. I got the jitters once in a while (you can see it in this thread) but deep down I was pretty confident that Hillary would pull it out. I was more wrong about that than I've been about any result in my lifetime. I'm pretty devestated right now. 

That being said, if you go back through this thread you'll find that I almost never made the argument, during the primaries, that she was more electable than Bernie. I agreed with that argument, but my own position was that she should be the nominee because I preferred her views to Bernie. That is still true. Still, if I could control stuff and go back in time I would gladly have Bernie win the primaries if it meant him defeating Donald Trump. And FWIW I'm sorry that I didn't. I'm sick to my stomach right now. 
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You are not alone Tim.  

And in all honesty, I am not sure Bernie would have had a much easier time last night than Clinton.  He would have needed the full support of the Clinton/DNC/Obama machine - and I don't know if they would have pulled out all the stops with minority voters.  I do think that Bernie would have fared better in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin - but Bernie may have struggled in states like Virginia and Nevada.

I am confident that Bernie had the best message among the three, and I am saddened by the loss of his momentum in progressive causes.  And, as I posted last night, I am more worried that Kentucky gave control of the state government to the GOP for the first time in 100 years - that is going to have a much more impactful influence on my life, and my kids lives, than Trump winning the general (and I did vote Dems in all down ticket races, so I did my part there...)

 
MaxThreshold said:
How about "sorry for being such a d-bag for the last year.  I was completely and utterly wrong"?  That would be a good start to making the FFA great again.
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Why pour it on? He's here. You went from "they're not here" to "you need to apologize", so what's next, shine your ####### shoes? Gloating is the name of the day after this crap show?

 
Sinn Fein said:
You are not alone Tim.  

And in all honesty, I am not sure Bernie would have had a much easier time last night than Clinton.  He would have needed the full support of the Clinton/DNC/Obama machine - and I don't know if they would have pulled out all the stops with minority voters.  I do think that Bernie would have fared better in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin - but Bernie may have struggled in states like Virginia and Nevada.

I am confident that Bernie had the best message among the three, and I am saddened by the loss of his momentum in progressive causes.  And, as I posted last night, I am more worried that Kentucky gave control of the state government to the GOP for the first time in 100 years - that is going to have a much more impactful influence on my life, and my kids lives, than Trump winning the general (and I did vote Dems in all down ticket races, so I did my part there...)
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All I know is this: while I will support Trump to begin with, and hope for the best (he is, after all, about to become MY President) if he starts doing the stuff that I fear and anticipate then we need all hands on deck to fight him. I've said all along that I don't think most people fully grasp how bad this could be- and now I am not just talking about Dems who stayed home, but also well meaning Trump supporters, of whom there are obviously a lot more than I thought. 

 
MaxThreshold said:
How about "sorry for being such a d-bag for the last year.  I was completely and utterly wrong"?
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I called the election wrong, but so did just about every pundit and prognosticator on the left.

The people have spoken and this country will get the leader it deserves.

 
In all day meeting in our office sharing an atrium with Trump Tower.  Lots of high drama.  People flipping it off, screaming...

 
squistion said:
What is there to say? :sadbanana:
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How about post-mortum, Squiz. Where exactly do you think it went wrong for Hillary? I'm going to say at the beginning - she was always flawed on multiple levels, as you were constantly reminded - and then she completely and totally played into her own stereotypes with the her misdeeds in the email investigation but then also added her own constant dissembling about it.

The Democrats always should have had a Plan B, they should have let the chips fall where they may.

I somewhat suspect that Trump's success always had a little something to do with the presence of Jeb Bush and Hillary in the first place. They were more or less red flags waived at the angry electorate bull.

 
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squistion said:
I called the election wrong, but so did just about every pundit and prognosticator on the left.

The people have spoken and this country will get the leader it deserves.
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But you have a way of coming across that few people do.  You still owe Saints an apology on the Kaep thread. 

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
Why pour it on? He's here. You went from "they're not here" to "you need to apologize", so what's next, shine your ####### shoes? Gloating is the name of the day after this crap show?
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Yes.  Simply showing up isn't enough.

Did you post the same thing about gloating for our resident forum liberals when Obama won the last two elections?  Please provide a link if you have one, but in general I love how when Conservatives lose then gloating from the left can't be done enough, but when the Democrats lose everyone is supposed to take the high-road.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
How about post-mortum, Squiz. Where do you think it went wrong for Hillary? I'm going to say at the beginning - she was always flawed on multiple levels, as you were constantly reminded - and then she completely and totally played into her own stereotypes with the her misdeeds in the email investigation but then her own constant dissembling about it.

The Democrats always should have had a Plan B, they should have let the chips fall where they may.

I somewhat suspect that Trump's success always had a little something to do with the presence of Jeb Bush and Hillary in the first place. They were more or less red flags waived at the angry electorate bull.
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It's hard to argue with this in retrospect. 

I dunno. I thought she won all 3 debates pretty handily. I thought her convention was brilliant, his was a nightmare. He had so many election-ending moments and none of them did. 

Its easy to blame Hillary (and believe me, right now I don't think I ever want to see her on TV again) but maybe this guy was simply unbeatable. 

 
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