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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (11 Viewers)

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IvanKaramazov said:
So typical.  And she wonders why she lost.
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This.

How on God's green earth she did not talk to her rally supporters last night and give a concession speech to all those die hards in NY is a clear picture of why she lost.

Shameful.

 
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Todem said:
This.

How on God's green earth she did not talk to her rally supporters last night and give a concession speech to all those die hards in NY is a clear picture of why she lost.

Shameful.
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Because she is and always has been a POS. The US dodged a HUGE bullet.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
24 hours ago, I was thinking the same thing.  Except "they" were Republicans.  

This is really an amazing reversal of political fortune, as horrible as the outcome is.
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I don't think the Democrats are the ones with the long-term problem. They are still on the right side of every social trend and have the diverse coalition to thrive well into the next few decades. They also don't need to deal with the fallout of the Trump presidency... let's all pray that's figurative and not literal. 

 
NCCommish said:
She lost about 3 points on average after the letter. It mattered but it was the last straw not the only straw.
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Stating the obvious but I think the polls were seriously flawed - people recognized a Trump candidacy was breaking a lot of rules/norms but in hinsight I think they missed the impact his running had on polling.  

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I don't think the Democrats are the ones with the long-term problem. They are still on the right side of every social trend and have the diverse coalition to thrive well into the next few decades. They also don't need to deal with the fallout of the Trump presidency... let's all pray that's figurative and not literal. 
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I've seen this a lot around here.  Don't know that it's actually true, especially since that is a very subjective statement.

 
With that said Max makes a good point. Basket of deplorable was Hillary's 47% moment. Broad brushes cause a lot of trouble.

 
AAABatteries said:
While accurate (or I assume it is since I don't have the numbers handy), I agree with NCC - it misses the mark.  She ran against Donald freaking Trump, this shouldn't have been close.
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Yup, even yesterday during the day I thought she was gonna win big and bring a Democratic Senate majority with her.  I thought it would be a failure if she just squeaked out a win.  I didn't think a failure this size was even possible.

 
Adam West said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think some incorrect assumptions were made about demographics and what 2008 meant.
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I think, long term, they were correct assumptions. 

Here is a theory I have had for years: populism trumps all rules in politics. Populist surges on a national basis are pretty rare in this country (Andrew Jackson and Donald Trump and that might be it) but when they happen they are overwhelming. But they don't last. Many of the people who voted for Trump will return to indifference after this election cycle. 

But the Obama coalition will essentially remain. 65% of Latinos voted for Hillary. That's a lower figure than I would have estimated but in a normal election it still represents an untenable result for Republicans. I compared this election earlier to Pete Wilson and Prop 187 and how that changed California. 187 passed and Wilson won re-election. That was a short term victory for Republicans but the negative consequences were long term and right around the corner. I expect the same result here, once the populism wave has passed. 
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Tim, you keep going down this path with populism.  Here's the reality of populism, whether you want to accept it or not.  It's "rise" is a direct symptom of a larger problem.  Populism itself isn't a manufactured problem (which is the only way I've seen you frame it ever here in this forum)  If the government is listening to the people and reflecting the direction the people think things should be going, there's no need for a movement.  As soon as a government is perceived to be going against the will of the people or appears to be "in the bag" for a small group of people, a void of distrust is opened and populism is allowed to fill that void.  You don't want populism?  I recommend behaving in a manner that doesn't allow the void to be open creating the opportunity for populism to fester.

 
Slapdash said:
Not really.  Just because she wasn't charged doesn't mean that any other government employee wouldn't be.  Consequences are different for those with power though.
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Just last month, Bryan Nishimura, a California Naval reservist, was sentenced to two years’ probation and a $7,500 fine after he pleaded guilty to removing classified material and downloading it to a personal electronic device. The FBI found no evidence he planned to distribute the material.

Last year, Bronze Star recipient and combat veteran Chief Petty Officer Lyle White pleaded guilty to storing classified documents on a nonsecure hard drive in Virginia. He received a suspended 60-day sentence and a suspended $10,000 fine in return for the plea. White said the information was for training purposes to study and that he had no intent to communicate with anyone.

She got a free pass.  No doubt about it.

 
Adam West said:
the Obama coalition
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Tim, one other thought on this.

Identity politics, once made normal or part of the mainstream, cannot be limited to certain, approved groups, especially once legislative benefits and losses are associated with such identification. Arguably this has been going on since Wallace and Nixon but no one has ever seen fit to stop it.

So "white" nationalists (ahem alt right) influences broke out into the fore. Is anyone surprised, really? Identify as 'black', identify as 'hispanic', identify as 'gay', identify as 'female', identify as 'muslim'.... what's next do you think?

It's a bad development but it has always been a dangerous game.

 
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@beavers, what is the reaction among the lesbian community, what with getting one of your own so close to the White House... but just falling short? 

 
I thought it was great speech by Clinton.  I thought she hit all the right notes - and honestly, acted like the leader we all hope Trump will be.  

She was not ready to face her supporters last night, and I can understand that - but she conceded early enough for me, given the state of the voting, and put the overall country ahead of her own interests in potentially challenging some of the results.  That was not an easy decision to make - but she made it, and I think that deserves some recognition.

 
[icon] said:
@beavers, what is the reaction among the lesbian community, what with getting one of your own so close to the White House... but just falling short? 
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First of all, Hillary isn't a lesbian, but since she's a woman ....

People are sincerely devestated and scared for their families. I know several SS families and given Trumps anti-gay stance, people are seriously scared of the unknown. And with good reason.

I think we are trying to make sense of just how far we've come, only to take such a huge step back. Not just with the LGBT community and with women, but with other minority groups as well. America chose fear to win yesterday. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
I thought it was great speech by Clinton.  I thought she hit all the right notes - and honestly, acted like the leader we all hope Trump will be.  

She was not ready to face her supporters last night, and I can understand that - but she conceded early enough for me, given the state of the voting, and put the overall country ahead of her own interests in potentially challenging some of the results.  That was not an easy decision to make - but she made it, and I think that deserves some recognition.
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Clinton is a great leader and would be leaps and bounds better than Trump... But ... Who knew America was so sexist. 

 
beavers said:
Trumps anti-gay stance
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Did I miss something here?

Aside from the NC bathroom issue, which I doubt Trump really seriously gives two thoughts about, what was Trump's stance on LGBT issues? Because I don't remember him ever mentioning aside from being generally supportive?

Not being facetious, there has just been very little policy talk in general.

 
beavers said:
Clinton is a great leader and would be leaps and bounds better than Trump... But ... Who knew America was so sexist. 
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Lets not lose sight of the fact that Clinton, and the DNC made some huge mis-steps here.  When you are looking to blame someone - start there.  Hillary was a very flawed candidate - which is nothing new - but she never worked to address those weaknesses.  That is a campaign problem - not a voter problem.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Did I miss something here?

Aside from the NC bathroom issue, which I doubt Trump really seriously gives two thoughts about, what was Trump's stance on LGBT issues? Because I don't remember him ever mentioning aside from being generally supportive?

Not being facetious, there has just been very little policy talk in general.
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Seems to be a big misconception that Donald is pro LGBT among a lot of folks ...

http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-nationwide-marriage-equality

 
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