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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (1 Viewer)

People are/were way to quick to write off Manziel. He is going to get a shot at some point. He is too talented and young and has a high ceiling to not get a chance at some point. That some point could be sooner than later, especially with a below average older starting QB ahead of him. The shouts for Manziel won't take long if the offence is spiralling and the team is losing with Mccown at the helm.

 
I'm a long time Manziel detractor but I think he definitely showed growth last night. Seems more willing to stay in the pocket, although it broke down on him several times, and also more willing to keep his eyes down field to make plays with his arm rather than just run like some back yard pickup game. I thought his accuracy was off. He made a nice play avoiding the rush and running out to his right, stopped didn't set his feet and threw a completion to a WR. While a completion, the pass was about 3 yds off target to the inside and the WR made a great adjustment to it. Luckily he was wide open and able to make the adjustment. Still, it was a pretty inaccurate pass. There were others, but overall he looks like he just might be heading towards competent QB play.

 
pantherclub said:
To me he lacks zip on the ball and throws too many ducks.
Click to expand...
This is not true.

Manziel has plenty of arm strength and can make all the NFL throws. People tend to see things they want to see though. Shorter QB's tend to be questioned with arm strength. So many people questioned Brees and Wilson's arm strength and ability to be good in the pocket prior to them becoming successful.

Manziel's issues were his work ethic was shocking and he relied on being a superb athlete in college to get by. He left the pocket so early and often and was a one read guy. Just get the snap and go playground.

He does though have the talent to become a competent successful NFL qb if he works hard, learns the playbook and continues to improve each session. It is baby steps for the time being, but as has been reported he has improved drastically from last year to this year. I likened him to Wilson based on measureables. Wilson however was and always has been notoriously known as a hard worker and great teammate. If Manziel can improve on those things he has a shot as his other talent is definitely NFL starter material.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
pantherclub said:
To me he lacks zip on the ball and throws too many ducks.
Click to expand...
This is not true.

Manziel has plenty of arm strength and can make all the NFL throws. People tend to see things they want to see though. Shorter QB's tend to be questioned with arm strength. So many people questioned Brees and Wilson's arm strength and ability to be good in the pocket prior to them becoming successful.

Manziel's issues were his work ethic was shocking and he relied on being a superb athlete in college to get by. He left the pocket so early and often and was a one read guy. Just get the snap and go playground.

He does though have the talent to become a competent successful NFL qb if he works hard, learns the playbook and continues to improve each session. It is baby steps for the time being, but as has been reported he has improved drastically from last year to this year. I likened him to Wilson based on measureables. Wilson however was and always has been notoriously known as a hard worker and great teammate. If Manziel can improve on those things he has a shot as his other talent is definitely NFL starter material.
Click to expand...
watching last night, did you think he had zip on the ball?

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
He is too talented and young and has a high ceiling to not get a chance at some point.
Click to expand...
Only one of these three things is even remotely correct.The hideous truth is that when you're a 1st round pick who's spent two years in camp with the likes of Hoyer and McCown, you've ALREADY had a million times the chance most backups ever get.

That this far along, he not only can't command the starter's role, but remains "firmly" behind (the coach's own words) merely serves as vindication of all the negative opinions. When you can't even give aging career backups a run for their money, it's time to be written off.

Talk about seeing what you want to see. :rolleyes:

Amazing how desperately some will cling to college legend long after it ceases to be relevant.

 
pantherclub said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
pantherclub said:
To me he lacks zip on the ball and throws too many ducks.
Click to expand...
This is not true.

Manziel has plenty of arm strength and can make all the NFL throws. People tend to see things they want to see though. Shorter QB's tend to be questioned with arm strength. So many people questioned Brees and Wilson's arm strength and ability to be good in the pocket prior to them becoming successful.

Manziel's issues were his work ethic was shocking and he relied on being a superb athlete in college to get by. He left the pocket so early and often and was a one read guy. Just get the snap and go playground.

He does though have the talent to become a competent successful NFL qb if he works hard, learns the playbook and continues to improve each session. It is baby steps for the time being, but as has been reported he has improved drastically from last year to this year. I likened him to Wilson based on measureables. Wilson however was and always has been notoriously known as a hard worker and great teammate. If Manziel can improve on those things he has a shot as his other talent is definitely NFL starter material.
Click to expand...
watching last night, did you think he had zip on the ball?
Click to expand...
You mean on those 11 pass attempts? Ya I thought it was fine.

 
Freelove said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
He is too talented and young and has a high ceiling to not get a chance at some point.
Click to expand...
Only one of these three things is even remotely correct.The hideous truth is that when you're a 1st round pick who's spent two years in camp with the likes of Hoyer and McCown, you've ALREADY had a million times the chance most backups ever get.

That this far along, he not only can't command the starter's role, but remains "firmly" behind (the coach's own words) merely serves as vindication of all the negative opinions. When you can't even give aging career backups a run for their money, it's time to be written off.

Talk about seeing what you want to see. :rolleyes:

Amazing how desperately some will cling to college legend long after it ceases to be relevant.
Click to expand...
Last year was a disaster. Manziel was awful and due to character he should not have been drafted in the 1st round as well. He was entitled and needed a reality check.

Had Manziel came into camp and had the mind set he has now things would not be as they are today. Young qb's even those selected in the first round can be groomed by veteran QB's. It would have been more concerning to Manziel and his career had the Browns selected a young qb in the earlier rounds this year or next year. For the time being things are looking great for Manziel. He is not being pressed into action and he is training and making the steps to become a starting NFL QB.

McCown is the transition QB who will make way for Manziel at some stage this season. Manziel will then have to show enough to the Brown's that he is someone you build around.

 
Freelove said:
That this far along, he not only can't command the starter's role, but remains "firmly" behind (the coach's own words) merely serves as vindication of all the negative opinions. When you can't even give aging career backups a run for their money, it's time to be written off.
Click to expand...
How old do you think Manziel is out of curiosity? Then ask yourself how old Brett Favre and Peyton Manning were when they started their first NFL game.

Amazing how fast we lose perspective.

 
pantherclub said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
pantherclub said:
To me he lacks zip on the ball and throws too many ducks.
Click to expand...
This is not true.

Manziel has plenty of arm strength and can make all the NFL throws. People tend to see things they want to see though. Shorter QB's tend to be questioned with arm strength. So many people questioned Brees and Wilson's arm strength and ability to be good in the pocket prior to them becoming successful.

Manziel's issues were his work ethic was shocking and he relied on being a superb athlete in college to get by. He left the pocket so early and often and was a one read guy. Just get the snap and go playground.

He does though have the talent to become a competent successful NFL qb if he works hard, learns the playbook and continues to improve each session. It is baby steps for the time being, but as has been reported he has improved drastically from last year to this year. I likened him to Wilson based on measureables. Wilson however was and always has been notoriously known as a hard worker and great teammate. If Manziel can improve on those things he has a shot as his other talent is definitely NFL starter material.
Click to expand...
watching last night, did you think he had zip on the ball?
Click to expand...
I think his style is to do what is needed. A lot of throws on the run require 'giving the receiver a chance'. They are just thrown to the side away from the defender, and "zip" isn't required. That being said, I can't say his arm has impressed me either.

 
daveR said:
I think he has finally attained the level we expect rookies to come in at.
Click to expand...
I've had trouble putting that performance into words, but I think this hit the nail on the head.
 
Kid has a long way to go.

I loved watching him in college. But his rookie year was an absolute disaster of epic proportions. It will be very interesting to see if he can win over his teammates. Ultimately he will if he can "bring it" and help this team win. It's really that simple.

I am skeptical he has what it takes top to bottom to be a starting NFL QB. I am not sold on his ability to be effective in the pocket and go through his progressions. He must learn to be able to make most of his living in the pocket. He has a tiny frame and I just can't see him taking punishment over the course of a 16 game schedule and being effective. being a wild stallion and looking to improvise more often than not will lead to turnovers, sacks and injuries in the NFL.

It's an interesting story. This team is bad. So if he can't crack the starting lineup by say week 10 to finish the season out so the team can get a final look at their 1st round investment, then he may be in trouble for his career as a starter.

 
i'll admit, i was way too quick to write this kid off.

if he keeps progressing the way he is, i really think he has the potential to develop into a mediocre backup NFL QB.

 
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny

 
Da Gildz said:
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny
Click to expand...
Yeah. Again, in the regular season vs the #1's he will get killed.

 
He keeps on progressing which very nice to see. Still a lot left to show, but he is making some big strides in comparison to last year. Also, it is tough to doubt his arm strength after his throw on the run this evening.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Todem said:
Da Gildz said:
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny
Click to expand...
Yeah. Again, in the regular season vs the #1's he will get killed.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like people who doubted R. Wilson time and again.
Click to expand...
Wilson doesn't rely on his speed to be effective tho. That's what made Johnny special.....in college.

 
Da Gildz said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Todem said:
Da Gildz said:
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny
Click to expand...
Yeah. Again, in the regular season vs the #1's he will get killed.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like people who doubted R. Wilson time and again.
Click to expand...
Wilson doesn't rely on his speed to be effective tho. That's what made Johnny special.....in college.
Click to expand...
Wilson relies on both. Being a runner and being good in the pocket.

Wilson 4.55 forty time.

Manziel 4.56 forty time.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Da Gildz said:
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Todem said:
Da Gildz said:
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny
Click to expand...
Yeah. Again, in the regular season vs the #1's he will get killed.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like people who doubted R. Wilson time and again.
Click to expand...
Wilson doesn't rely on his speed to be effective tho. That's what made Johnny special.....in college.
Click to expand...
Wilson relies on both. Being a runner and being good in the pocket.Wilson 4.55 forty time.

Manziel 4.56 forty time.
Click to expand...
Speed is a bonus for Wilson. He has proven to be an effective pocket passer. Johnny hasn't shown anything...yet

 
Manziel is seeing things and stepping up well.

The size and Patriots Flutie comparisons, I thought this was a real concern.

I'm more open to Buffalo San Diego Flutie comparisons now and think I might have seen a considerable difference tonight(no pun intended)

Isn't it hard for a tall QB to see their speedy lil bugger WRs? I'm curious if this didn't inadvertently speed up his learning curve.

The "no QB controversy" statement from the coach is probably right on cue for his development. Another step, that's our unofficial sign a backup has made progress too.

I still like the Josh will get hurt and Manziel will come in mid-season thought. Some modicum of success in preseason, learn behind a vet...that's good, predictable.

I'm totally open with zero expectation of success or failure and just curious. I'm still of the "another step" mindset and not ready to make him some star or starting QB.

 
Carter_Can_Fly said:
Todem said:
Da Gildz said:
That throw on the run on the naked boot was a thing of beauty. Having said that he barely out ran 3rd stringers. The speed advantage at this level is non existent for Johnny
Click to expand...
Yeah. Again, in the regular season vs the #1's he will get killed.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like people who doubted R. Wilson time and again.
Click to expand...
Never doubted Wilson...loved him from day one. He had something very important coming in and that was maturity. It makes a huge difference.

Manziel still looks like a deer in headlights. He has a long ways to go. No doubt the kid has oodles of talent. He made a couple of beautiful plays on his TD drive. The roll out pass down field was great, and the play action 3 step drop and fire to the end zone was picture perfect.

I really question his ability between the ears to put it all together. Time will tell. I don't hate him. I just don't believe in him.

Big difference.

 
Todem said:
Manziel still looks like a deer in headlights. He has a long ways to go. No doubt the kid has oodles of talent. He made a couple of beautiful plays on his TD drive. The roll out pass down field was great, and the play action 3 step drop and fire to the end zone was picture perfect.
Click to expand...
What do you mean here? It doesn't seem to matchup with the deer in headlights comment

 
Bri said:
Todem said:
Manziel still looks like a deer in headlights. He has a long ways to go. No doubt the kid has oodles of talent. He made a couple of beautiful plays on his TD drive. The roll out pass down field was great, and the play action 3 step drop and fire to the end zone was picture perfect.
Click to expand...
What do you mean here? It doesn't seem to matchup with the deer in headlights comment
Click to expand...
A lot of times he was a deer in headlights....but he managed to make a few nice plays. He is very raw, and still young. I am not a believer but I also am not going to completely write him off. He may hang on as career backup...maybe.

He has a looooooooong way to go.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Disclaimer: I did not see any of this kid's college games. All I have seen are some pre-season games, and one late-season NFL game.

I don't know what they see in him. Maybe it's a personality thing. Maybe it's "swagger".

I see a really small guy with a so-so arm. Somebody who gets flushed from the pocket more often than not. Somebody who will be crushed into the ground three or four times before his professional career ends.

I don't know how tall he really is, but Wilson looks much bigger to me. Neither does he look strong. Really wish Dallas had drafted him.

 
daveR said:
Disclaimer: I did not see any of this kid's college games. All I have seen are some pre-season games, and one late-season NFL game.

I don't know what they see in him. Maybe it's a personality thing. Maybe it's "swagger".

I see a really small guy with a so-so arm. Somebody who gets flushed from the pocket more often than not. Somebody who will be crushed into the ground three or four times before his professional career ends.

I don't know how tall he really is, but Wilson looks much bigger to me. Neither does he look strong. Really wish Dallas had drafted him.
Click to expand...
Watched him in college. He was awesome in college.

But he is not making the transition thus far. Nothing new. It happens to most QB's. It's one of the toughest positions in all of sports. So not I am not surprised.

 
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