*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (1 Viewer)

[Masked Vigilante]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character.

...well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.

So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

I don't think they mean they had created the ending the very second they created the concept of the show. I think they mean that some time very early on in season one they had decided how the show will end. It was JJ's ending.

 

[menobrown]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character....well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

Yes it's true that the original plan was to make us think Jack was going to be the leader and than kill him off. But this was the plan well before the Pilot was ever shot or production had ever started. Keaton said when ABC saw the script they said the Jack character needed to stay alive. So by the time actual casting and shooting began they no longer planned to kill Jack off quickly.

 

[Native]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character.

...well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.

So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

I don't think they mean they had created the ending the very second they created the concept of the show. I think they mean that some time very early on in season one they had decided how the show will end. It was JJ's ending.

What whey said is that the main protagonist of the show was initially going to be the "Kate" Character and not the "Jack" character. So the story stayed the same, but the characters flipped roles.

 

[menobrown]

So I rewatched the finale and enjoyed it even more. Like a lot of people I have a lot of questions and this one is probably obvious to some but I can't figure it out.

If sideways world was not real why did Desmond tell Jack he sat next to him on Oceanic flight 815 and that the plane did not crash. How would Desmond on the Island know what happened in Jacks purgatory world?

 

[Sack-Religious]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character.

...well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.

So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

I think you're confusing a couple things and it depends on your idea of "very beginning." If you view the very beginning as the ABC exec (Lloyd Braun, then ABC Entertainment chairman) who had an original concept for a show similar to Lost after vacationing in Hawaii. He brought it forward at a corporate retreat and was met with :crickets:. Another exec (Thom Sherman) later informed Braun that he liked the concept so they developed the concept a little more on the QT. They asked screenwriter Jeffery Lieber to pen a script, but they didn't like it so they brought in JJ Abrams.Abrams brought in Lindelof and the concept started to take on the more familiar version of Lost we saw. They knew at that point the opening sequence, how the pilot episode would end and about flashbacks and the hatch.

Apparently the search for Dr. Jack Shephard wasn't a priority and they briefly considered a guest-spot for Micahel Keaton as Jack and in the original script they were going to kill him off mid-way through the pilot in a twist designed to surprise the audience. Network execs put the kibosh on killing off Jack. Lindeloff and Abrams logic was that it'd be like killing off the female lead in Psycho, a perspective switch, and making the movie about Anthony Perkins. Stephen McPherson (then president of Touchstone Television) said that TV is different than movies and that you can't kill off the "hero" so early because people won't get emotionally invested to anyone else since they'll think they can lose them at anytime. Abrams and Lindelof agreed and went back to the drawing board and said "What does the show look like if Jack survives?" And Lost, as we know it was born.

Matthew Fox originally auditioned for the Sawyer role, but they also gave him the revised script and had him read as Jack. Both he and they saw the immediate fit, and here you have it.

I don't see the gripe about Ben being all that valid, to be honest. If the post on a previous page is right that JJ Abrams penned the closing scene of Jack's eye closing in the field he woke up, then they did know the end and didn't deviate from it. Ben's character was originally forecast to be a small part and Eko's to be bigger. Stuff happened and the roles were reversed. It didn't affect the end-result and was all used to build towards the end.

 

[bostonfred]

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told my MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

I would need to rewatch the show to answer this, but my understanding is this: - Jacob's mother is the first protector of the island (or at least the first one we know about)- She kills Jacob and MIB's real mother and raises them as brothers who get along at first- MIB meets the first group of visitors to the island, and while he has contempt for them, he learns from them, angering his mother.- MIB tells his mother his plan to leave the island. They fight to the death, MIB wins. - Jacob tries to kill MIB in retaliation, but he doesn't die. - Jacob brings some people to the island.- MIB corrupts them, eventually they die. - Jacob brings the black rock to the island- MIB kills everyone on the boat except Alpert, who he leaves to suffer until he finally releases him.- MIB tries to convince Alpert to kill Jacob for him.- Jacob talks Alpert out of it and offers him eternal life in exchange for helping him. - Jacob brings more people to the island. Some follow Alpert, who represents Jacob, and they become the Others. - Eventually, Dharma comes to the island. - Ben leaves Dharma and joins the Others, eventaully becoming their leader. - MIB somehow convinces Ben that he can summon the smoke monster, when it's really the other way around.- Ben, who has never spoken to Jacob, kills the rest of the Dharma people.----Then the contentious part: - The MIB somehow manages to trap Jacob in the cabin. This is the part I'm not completely sure of. I know we saw and heard the smoke monster before they broke the trail of ash around the cabin, so my suspicion is that Jacob was trapped in the cabin, and the MIB couldn't get in there to do anything about it because of the ash. But I may be wrong about this. ----- Jacob brings Desmond to the island.- Desmond enters the numbers every time but once- Jacob brings the plane to the island so the one time Desmond doesn't enter the numbers, it tears the plane apart, which brings Jack and co. to the island. - The remaining Others believe that all newcomers are evil and will either help the MIB, or hurt the island. They know that some are "good people", so they don't immediately slaughter them, but they watch them. - Ben Linus goes undercover, in part to find out more about them and in part because Jack is a surgeon who can save him. - Ben and the Others bring Sawyer, Kate and co. to the cages but keep Jack separate to get him to perform surgery on him. - Jack does it, but holds the Others hostage by cutting open a sack in Ben's back, threatening to kill him if they don't let his friends go.- They let his friends go, Jack saves Ben's life- Jack tries to leave the island. The others try to stop him.- Locke refuses to push the button, and the resultant electromagnetic event sends Desmond time travelling and allows Widmore to find the island.- Locke sends a boat to the island with people who are supposed to kill everyone on it.- Jack and co. stop them. Michael tries to kill them, but can't. - The Oceanic Six leave the island- Sawyer stays behind because the helicopter won't carry him. He's the last candidate left on the island for a while.- Ben kills Locke. We find out later that the MIB tricked him into thinking he was supposed to. But that's OK because the MIB had tricked Locke into killing himself, until Ben stopped him, realized what was happening, and killed him anyways. - Jack realizes that he needs to go back and brings the Oceanic Six, and Locke's corpse, back to the island- The MIB inhabits Locke's corpse, and also appears as Alex, to convince Ben to kill Jacob. - The MIB gets Richard to bring them to Jacob, where he cannot go by himself- Richard gets them in there, thinking it's Locke and Ben, the current and former leader of the others, what could possibly go wrong.- It turns out it wasn't Locke. Things go wrong.- Ben kills Jacob. Locke finalizes his plans to leave the island. Help me understand what the Others did that didn't match their motivations, and help me understand where in the storyline it happened. And if anyone wants to fix the storyline above, feel free. I know I don't remember it perfectly.

 

[boubucarow]

So I rewatched the finale and enjoyed it even more. Like a lot of people I have a lot of questions and this one is probably obvious to some but I can't figure it out.If sideways world was not real why did Desmond tell Jack he sat next to him on Oceanic flight 815 and that the plane did not crash. How would Desmond on the Island know what happened in Jacks purgatory world?

It wasn't Jack's world, we were told they all created the world however that is possible. It was Desmond's purgatory just as much as Jack's. As to why Desmond was able to exist in both at the same time, he did it before in two separate time periods so I guess the purgatory falls along the same line.

 

[cstu]

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told my MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

You don't seem to realize that Jacob was ALL about free will and leaving it up to the people he brought to the island to make the right choice. But, he was also flawed — he was naive and immature in many ways and Alpert had to convince him to that he needed an intermediary otherwise he could never prove that the fundamental nature of man is good.Jacob was very "hands off" in his leadership. You may not like that, I get that, but that's that nature of his character that he inherited from Mother. Again, you might not like that, but just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.So, here we have Jacob being hands off, hoping that his Candidates make the right choices and come to the right conclusions. This ultimately led him him getting stabbed by Ben. Right up until the end, he hoped Ben would do the right thing so he didn't intervene, even though he knew his life was on the line. If you can't see this, I'm not sure you were watching the same show as the rest of us.MiB had to find a way to kill Jacob's potential replacements and influencing the Others to do just that was a means to an end.

I understand what the writers meant to do, but there are serious holes in the story. For example, Richard should have understood from the beginning that MiB can take the form of dead people, yet this isn't common knowledge among the others. In 150 years Richard finds about almost nothing about the island, MiB or Jacob. I don't buy it.

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Did Jacob bring Roseau to the island or did her boat get there by accident

 

[sho nuff]

So I rewatched the finale and enjoyed it even more. Like a lot of people I have a lot of questions and this one is probably obvious to some but I can't figure it out.If sideways world was not real why did Desmond tell Jack he sat next to him on Oceanic flight 815 and that the plane did not crash. How would Desmond on the Island know what happened in Jacks purgatory world?

Desmond thought that removing it would send him to that point in time...IMO...Desmond saw the purgatory flash...like he saw the future before...but did not realize exactly what it was in his mind while on the island.

 

[Sack-Religious]

So I rewatched the finale and enjoyed it even more. Like a lot of people I have a lot of questions and this one is probably obvious to some but I can't figure it out.If sideways world was not real why did Desmond tell Jack he sat next to him on Oceanic flight 815 and that the plane did not crash. How would Desmond on the Island know what happened in Jacks purgatory world?

This is a snip of a post of mine from a few pages back.

The Sideways were created, for lack of a better term, by their souls as a place where, when the time was right, they would eventually meet, remember and move on to the afterlife. That's not to say that the Sideways weren't real. Up until their enlightenment, the Sideways was just as real to everyone as everything else. In the sideways their characters and personalities were fundamentally the same, but the circumstances of their lives changed by varying degrees depending on the individual and depending on how much "work" they had to do to be ready to move on. I think many people will be confused by the Sideways and the "timing" of it and the appearance of the characters. The sideways could be 2000 years from now, or it could be right now. As Christian Shephard said (and I'm paraphrasing here), time doesn't matter there. The appearance of the characters is how each of the characters remembers each other at the critical part of their life when they met each other and formed the bonds that stretched beyond this mortal life.

In the sideways, since it wasn't "owned" by one specific person and it was a shared "meeting place" for these people, Des did sit next to Jack on Oceanic 815. The experiences they shared on the island, and in the flash forwards and flashbacks created the inextricable links between them so that they'd connect in the Sideways "meeting place" eventually. But since "time" doesn't matter in the sideways it's not a matter of "when" they meet, just that they'll meet, remember and in most cases be ready to move on.Does that help at all?

 

[northern exposure]

what was the deal with Jack's son?

And why after he woke up after his surgery did Locke say to Jack "You don't have a son"?

 

[Sack-Religious]

I understand what the writers meant to do, but there are serious holes in the story. For example, Richard should have understood from the beginning that MiB can take the form of dead people, yet this isn't common knowledge among the others. In 150 years Richard finds about almost nothing about the island, MiB or Jacob. I don't buy it.

Yes, Richard should have understood. But perhaps the ability to impart or learn this knowledge was one of Jacob's cockamamie rules.You don't have to buy it, but it's what you were sold. At this point you can take it or leave it. You obviously won't take it, so I suggest you leave it. I can totally understand where you are coming from, but I'm OK with how they told the story. Would I have liked more? Sure, but I've got to live with what they gave me and I'm happy with what I was given.It's been said and said again here, nobody's going to convince anyone to change their viewpoint. I don't believe I could change your viewpoint, and I don't want to. It's your right to not like it, as much as it's my right to like it. If people don't like it because they're not understanding, or misunderstanding, I'll provide my interpretation to see if that might help, but I hold no illusions that I'll be able to "convert" anyone, nor do I want to.

 

[Sack-Religious]

what was the deal with Jack's son?

And why after he woke up after his surgery did Locke say to Jack "You don't have a son"?

Jack's son in the sideways gave Jack the opportunity to work through one of his major issues/hurdles to "moving on" by being a better father for his son, than Christian was to him. Again, the fundamental nature of the characters remained the same, but circumstances varied to help them move on.When Locke woke up from his surgery and regained feeling and use of his legs, he became aware of non-sideways reality where Jack did not have a son and knew what the Sideways was. Jack had a small flash, but it wasn't enough. I interpreted it as Locke's way to help Jack along in his process.

 

[Chiwawa]

The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island.

Then why didn't Samuel/Smoke Monster/Fake-Locke/Norwood just have the Others wipe out all of the survivors, and potential candidates, on Day 1? Or all of them except the children that they were so interested in?Knowing what we know now about Sammy, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would be too concerned about there being some "good" people amongst the survivors. He's demonstrated that he's pretty ruthless in using people to achieve his ultimate goal.

 

[northern exposure]

Am i missing something? Why is nobody commenting on the fact that they showed the wreckage at the very end over silence? thought on the meaning?

Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

 

[bostonfred]

The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island.

Then why didn't Samuel/Smoke Monster/Fake-Locke/Norwood just have the Others wipe out all of the survivors, and potential candidates, on Day 1? Or all of them except the children that they were so interested in?Knowing what we know now about Sammy, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would be too concerned about there being some "good" people amongst the survivors. He's demonstrated that he's pretty ruthless in using people to achieve his ultimate goal.

The Others worked for Jacob, not MIB. But MIB was manipulating Ben, who was their leader. That's all we really know. You can fill in the details in whatever way you think fits the narrative, because that was left pretty open. I'm sure the Dude would be happy to give you his version of a script for this that would be really awesome.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Am i missing something? Why is nobody commenting on the fact that they showed the wreckage at the very end over silence? thought on the meaning?

Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

There is no meaning to the final shot.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Am i missing something? Why is nobody commenting on the fact that they showed the wreckage at the very end over silence? thought on the meaning?

Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

I think this was an homage to an iconic part of the story. Without that crash, there couldn’t have been a show and filming the beach with the wreckage with no characters or music was a way to say “it’s all over.” I liked it, although I can see how some people may read it differently.

 

[northern exposure]

Of love 'Lost'

A riveting series' finale fails to top the six seasons that preceded it. But then, it was always about the journey.

Well, it could have been worse. It could have all been a dream.

Actually, that might have been better, if the finale of "Lost" had ended with some alien life form or surprising human — Ray Bradbury, say, or Terry O'Quinn in a pre-audition nap — opening his eyes from the craziest dream ever.

Instead, it turns out the passengers of Oceanic 815 are all dead, victims, if the end-credit imagery is to believed, of the same tragic plane accident that started the whole thing. Six seasons of polar bears, bachelor pad hatches, landlocked ships, personal submarines and a fleet of fallen airplanes, and it was all apparently some sort of shared afterlife experience. Excuse me, but what are we supposed to do with those religious statues full of heroin, with Fionnula Flanagan's pendulums, with the crazy Frenchwoman and the time shifts and the whole glorious Richard Alpert back story? And what on Earth are we supposed to do with the Dharma Initiative?

Release them into the universe, apparently, along with the image of Allison Janney in bad biblical hair. Because as Desmond (Henry Ian Cusick) kept telling Jack and anyone who would listen, really, none of it matters, except that it's over, and even if Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse decided, and possibly at the last minute, that their uber-narrative would be an over-the-top marriage of "Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" and "It's a Wonderful Life," at least it's over, and that's something.

Because watching "Lost" has been a bit like being pregnant. The thrill of discovery, followed by the delight of watching a nascent form evolve into something real. Then the long delightful exhausting middle months, until it came down to a few final weeks, fueled by fevered anticipation and the wretched, bloated desire to just get the dang thing over with.

And as with most birth experiences, there was blood and there were tears. Lots of tears. In the end, "Lost" was not, despite all that blogging to the contrary, a modern allegory of good versus evil or faith versus science. "Lost," it turns out, was nothing more or less than a love story, the 2 1/2 hours of its finale tilted much more toward lovers' reunions than the final battle between Jack ( Matthew Fox) and John Locke (Terry O'Quinn).

So the sound you heard 'round about 10 Sunday night was thousands of nonromantics wishing for a time slip that would give them those 2 1/2 hours and possibly six seasons back.

Which is ridiculous, of course, because the message of "Lost" had nothing to do with smoke monsters or even true love — it was about living in the present. The slippery, ever-shifting, oh-now-there's-a-temple-in-the-jungle present. Viewers either went with it or they didn't.

No matter how you felt about the resolution of the finale, the 144 or so minutes that preceded it were pretty compelling television, proof if nothing else that if Kate ( Evangeline Lilly) picks up a gun in the first episode, it will go off in the last, that O'Quinn and Michael Emerson (Ben) should be nominated for at least two Emmys apiece and Cusick needs his own series. And if there was some pretty clunky dialogue, including Hurley (Jorge Garcia) saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this," there were more than a few highlights, including:

The resigned exclamation Ben (Emerson) makes when Sawyer hits him — is there any member of the cast who hasn't beaten Ben up?

The "My mouth's bleedin', Bert" look on Locke's face when Jack hits him and Locke realizes he is mortal once again.

That Hurley becomes, at the last moment, the keeper of the island. His belief in himself was touching and for one moment one could forget the real mystery of "Lost," which is how Hurley actually seemed to get heavier despite all that walking.

The return of Shannon (Maggie Grace) into Sayid's arms was the most romantic moment of the night, though I don't know what to say about the Dixie Chick hair — especially if this is heaven.

The scene in which Claire ( Emilie de Ravin) gives birth backstage at the Widmore benefit while Kate assists and Charlie (Dominic Monaghan) in full rocker gear looks on was one of the low points (although it works well for my pregnancy analogy). But the most disturbing image of the evening happened during the commercial break: It is too soon for the smoke monster to shill for Target.

The bolded part is what confused me. I thought I understood the ending and then the end credits suggested the whole series was the afterlife because everybody died in the initial plane crash.

 

[bostonfred]

Am i missing something? Why is nobody commenting on the fact that they showed the wreckage at the very end over silence? thought on the meaning?

Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

I think this was an homage to an iconic part of the story. Without that crash, there couldn’t have been a show and filming the beach with the wreckage with no characters or music was a way to say “it’s all over.” I liked it, although I can see how some people may read it differently.

That's definitely one interpretation. Partly because they wanted to close the show the way they began it, and partly to show you the egg shells after you finished the omelette. Another explanation is to show the aftermath. The plane really crashed. This really happened. The island moves on, but it has some scars, too.

Or maybe it was to honor the victims of the crash.

There are other interpretations, too. It was a good scene, and left to stand on its own.

 

[Black Box]

It's been said and said again here, nobody's going to convince anyone to change their viewpoint. I don't believe I could change your viewpoint, and I don't want to. It's your right to not like it, as much as it's my right to like it. If people don't like it because they're not understanding, or misunderstanding, I'll provide my interpretation to see if that might help, but I hold no illusions that I'll be able to "convert" anyone, nor do I want to.

Thanks, Jacob.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Something that caught my eye in the final scene was that when Christian was leading them to the light, he had on the same white tennis shoes Jack saw him wearning on the island.

Could it be that Jack was actually seeing the spirit of his father, rather than MiB on the island?

We know MiB appeared as Christian to Claire, but there's been much debate as to whether the Christian that appeared to Jack was actually MiB. I don't think we can take MiB's word anymore since he appears to have been lying, for the most part, to everyone he came in contact with.

The show has hit us over the head with obvious clues before so I'm wondering if Christian appearing the same in both sequences means something more. Am I reading too much into the white tennis shoes?

 

[Chiwawa]

The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island.

Then why didn't Samuel/Smoke Monster/Fake-Locke/Norwood just have the Others wipe out all of the survivors, and potential candidates, on Day 1? Or all of them except the children that they were so interested in?Knowing what we know now about Sammy, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would be too concerned about there being some "good" people amongst the survivors. He's demonstrated that he's pretty ruthless in using people to achieve his ultimate goal.

The Others worked for Jacob, not MIB. But MIB was manipulating Ben, who was their leader. That's all we really know. You can fill in the details in whatever way you think fits the narrative, because that was left pretty open. I'm sure the Dude would be happy to give you his version of a script for this that would be really awesome.

Right. As I understand it, the Others took orders from Ben. Ben took orders from who he thought was Jacob, but it was really Sammy. So why didn't Sammy just say "Hey, take these ####ers out." I'm not looking to fill in the blanks, I'm just wondering why he didn't just end them when they were sitting ducks.Further, why did Sam (taking the form of Jack's Dad), show Jack where the cave was?

 

[Sack-Religious]

The bolded part is what confused me. I thought I understood the ending and then the end credits suggested the whole series was the afterlife because everybody died in the initial plane crash.

Keep in mind that's one person's opinion, just as mine is on it. If it was an homage, or whatever, it seems to be a big error on their part since it's led to so much confusion.

 

[bostonfred]

The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island.

Then why didn't Samuel/Smoke Monster/Fake-Locke/Norwood just have the Others wipe out all of the survivors, and potential candidates, on Day 1? Or all of them except the children that they were so interested in?Knowing what we know now about Sammy, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would be too concerned about there being some "good" people amongst the survivors. He's demonstrated that he's pretty ruthless in using people to achieve his ultimate goal.

The Others worked for Jacob, not MIB. But MIB was manipulating Ben, who was their leader. That's all we really know. You can fill in the details in whatever way you think fits the narrative, because that was left pretty open. I'm sure the Dude would be happy to give you his version of a script for this that would be really awesome.

Right. As I understand it, the Others took orders from Ben. Ben took orders from who he thought was Jacob, but it was really Sammy. So why didn't Sammy just say "Hey, take these ####ers out." I'm not looking to fill in the blanks, I'm just wondering why he didn't just end them when they were sitting ducks.Further, why did Sam (taking the form of Jack's Dad), show Jack where the cave was?

You mean at the beginning? Because his whole plan to kill Jacob revolved around Richard bringing him to see Jacob, along with someone who Jacob trusted enough to make leader, yet was manipulable enough to kill Jacob for him. He needed a new group, and he used all of them. I think he even said as much at one point in the show.

 

[Statorama]

Proof again that not just anyone should take the keys of the Gekko alias

 

[(HULK)]

Page 108!

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

The Lost series is a lot like The Matrix Trilogy.

There's one really good movie that exists in the second two. Problem is all the other nonsense surrounding it. Where people like myself end up ultimately liking the movies is because we ignore/fast forward through the parts we don't like and take away the parts that we do.

Seasons 1-3 of Lost is like the first Matrix movie - it's all pretty good, new, and inventive. And theres a season to a season-and-a-half worth buried in the last three seasons. The problem for most people is that they won't be able to disregard the stuff they don't like to get to the stuff that they do.

 

[DocGonzo]

The bolded part is what confused me. I thought I understood the ending and then the end credits suggested the whole series was the afterlife because everybody died in the initial plane crash.

Keep in mind that's one person's opinion, just as mine is on it. If it was an homage, or whatever, it seems to be a big error on their part since it's led to so much confusion.

It has no meaning. ABC execs screwed that up.http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-fin...cenes-wreckage/

 

[Mario Kart]

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told my MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

The Others wanted to get rid of all comers and couldn't kill the candidates. I don't think we can assume Jacob wouldn't have instructed all of this. He wrote the lists with names that the Others needed to protect/not kill so I assume he knew they would kill newcomers probably through his orders. Humans in the past like Dharma attempted to harness the power of the island which would threaten the island. It seems that many visitors appeared to do the same thing probably in part due to the influence of MIB attempting to reach the light. The motivation of the Others was that Ben/Jacob/Richard convinced them that the Island was a special place (and with live saving water among other things, it isn't hard to understand) and they needed to listen to Ben/Jacob/Richard in order to keep it that way.

Also, it was nice to see the four characters working together near the end on the island, Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley were the same four characters that were captured and taken to the Hydra island at the end of season two. Those four on the list played a crucial role in the whole thing and it was nice to see the captured become the saviors.

 

[GDogg]

Am i missing something? Why is nobody commenting on the fact that they showed the wreckage at the very end over silence? thought on the meaning?

Very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

It didn't mean anything. It wasn't part of the script and wasn't aired in other countries. ABC made a statement regarding the scene:

You know those Oceanic 815 plane crash images that ran after Jack's (Matthew Fox) eye closed and the "Lost" logo appeared on our TV screens? Some "Lost" fans and TV critics have wondered if they were a last Easter egg from the producers, a clue meant to lead us to conclude that no one survived Oceanic 815's crash landing — and therefore everything we've seen over the last six years never really happened.

Well, ABC wants to clear the air: Those photographs were not part of the "Lost" story at all. The network added them to soften the transition from the moving ending of the series to the 11 p.m. news and never considered that it would confuse viewers about the actual ending of the show.

"The images shown during the end credits of the 'Lost' finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the final story but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news," an ABC spokesperson wrote in an e-mail Tuesday.

That means, Losties, that we were not supposed to think that Christian Shepherd (John Terry) is a liar. What Christian told his son, when they were reunited at the church, should serve as guidance for our interpretation of the series' ending.

So let's review: Christian told Jack that he was dead and everyone else in the church was too — some had died before Jack, as we already knew, and some died long after. The sideways flashes then were a step in everyone's after-lives, a way to reconnect before moving on permanently. While there still may be unanswered questions related to that religious and spiritual conclusion to the "Lost" story, the photographs were really just a nostalgic, transitional touch added by ABC executives — and not executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

Love or hate it, that's the final answer.

From the L.A. Times.

 

[bostonfred]

The Lost series is a lot like The Matrix Trilogy. There's one really good movie that exists in the second two. Problem is all the other nonsense surrounding it. Where people like myself end up ultimately liking the movies is because we ignore/fast forward through the parts we don't like and take away the parts that we do.Seasons 1-3 of Lost is like the first Matrix movie - it's all pretty good, new, and inventive. And theres a season to a season-and-a-half worth buried in the last three seasons. The problem for most people is that they won't be able to disregard the stuff they don't like to get to the stuff that they do.

Amazing. I was going to say the exact same thing. Not word for word, but every single point you just made.

 

[Neo]

Proof again that not just anyone should take the keys of the Gekko alias

Funny, I started reading that post without knowing who wrote it and was halfway through and was like WHO wrote this and see GG......should have known....I should have known.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Certainly this has been covered, but in response to those who said the time travel was unimportant. Wasn't it necessary to get Richard to believe that Locke was the chosen one, as much as it was for Richard to convince Locke? That moment when Locke appeared and was wounded, and Richard came over to give him some first aid was all set up through the time travel. I'd like to watch all that again.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

The Lost series is a lot like The Matrix Trilogy. There's one really good movie that exists in the second two. Problem is all the other nonsense surrounding it. Where people like myself end up ultimately liking the movies is because we ignore/fast forward through the parts we don't like and take away the parts that we do.Seasons 1-3 of Lost is like the first Matrix movie - it's all pretty good, new, and inventive. And theres a season to a season-and-a-half worth buried in the last three seasons. The problem for most people is that they won't be able to disregard the stuff they don't like to get to the stuff that they do.

Amazing. I was going to say the exact same thing. Not word for word, but every single point you just made.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

FFA - you need to let go

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Page 108!

Was just about to post the same.

 

[Joseph]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character....well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

Fox on Kimmel said that what they meant by that was that they knew the final shot of the show would be jack's eye closing, the opposite of the initial shot of the series.

 

[Andrew Garda]

FFA - you need to let go

And if you can't, Desmond will run you over with his car until you do.CAN YOU FEEL IT CHARLIE???

 

[sho nuff]

FFA - you need to let go

And if you can't, Desmond will run you over with his car until you do.CAN YOU FEEL IT CHARLIE???

Why did you suck so bad on Idol after doing "Straight Up"?

 

[Rooster]

- The MIB somehow manages to trap Jacob in the cabin. This is the part I'm not completely sure of. I know we saw and heard the smoke monster before they broke the trail of ash around the cabin, so my suspicion is that Jacob was trapped in the cabin, and the MIB couldn't get in there to do anything about it because of the ash. But I may be wrong about this.

Are we sure that was Jacob in the cabin? I mean, I know Ben thought it was Jacob, but didn't he appear as Christian Shepard? MIB appeared to Jack as Christian Shepard early on. My assumption would be that somehow MIB managed to convince Ben that he was Jacob and that MIB was in the cabin pretending to be Jacob. Even then, that doesn't make sense because MIB got Ben to kill Jacob out of resentment because Jacob never talked to him/he couldn't see him/he wasn't special. So Richard had to convince Ben that MIB in the cabin was Jacob (I can't come up with a good reason about how/why that would happen), but I still think because he appeared as Christian it was MIB somehow communicating with Locke and further angering Ben so that he would resent Jacob.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

So I rewatched the finale and enjoyed it even more. Like a lot of people I have a lot of questions and this one is probably obvious to some but I can't figure it out.If sideways world was not real why did Desmond tell Jack he sat next to him on Oceanic flight 815 and that the plane did not crash. How would Desmond on the Island know what happened in Jacks purgatory world?

my take on that is that when Widmore subjected Desmond to that huge electromagnetic force in the shack, Desmond had a near-death experience and was able to connect with the sideways purgatory land and see the lives that the other people were living. but he didn't necessarily understand what he was seeing, and possibly thought that it was an alternate reality where the plane didn't crash and everyone went on with their lives. so he thought that if they were able to unplug the light and kill MIB, then everyone would flash to their other happily-ever-after reality.that's why after he was subjected to electromagnetism, he seemed very confident and willing to do what was needed, because he thought he saw their other happy lives and believed they would go there.

 

[Chiwawa]

Page 108!

Was just about to post the same.

Lock it?

 

[The Dude]

There is no evidence of Jacob taking another form. Plus Jacob seemed to be fairly uninvolved on the island until he was killed.

You have to conclude that Christian in the cabin is MIB until there is reason to think otherwise. Same with Christian in the hospital (post rescue).

The first one cna be explained away. You assume because the ash circle was broken, that MIB was locked in the cabin up until the point we saw the break in the circle. We don't know when the circle was broken.

The second IMO is a serious error on the part of the writers.

The only reason people are trying to make Christian <> MIB in those instances is beacuse that story is flawed.

 

[shuke]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"

The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

Because Ben had the list of names that were candidates. Either he felt he needed to keep them on the island, kill them, or most probably try to keep them under his control since he was dealing with a lot of issues about these people being more important than him.It's quite obvious you didn't pay much attention the past 6 years. Not sure how that translates to the show not having any meaning.

 

[cstu]

Somebody explain this alternate reality thing to me.

Oh...and I'm raising the on the whole repairing the aircrafts landing gear hydraulic system with freaking duck-tape.

Did you not see Mythbusters, duct tape special, That stuff can do it all.

http://www.armyparatrooper.org/dropzone/sh...-Tape-in-Alaska

Lost's Duct Tape Fix Wouldn't Work

Our last Lost fact check ever focuses on duct tape—the material that can build bridges, but can't seal a hydraulic leak. Note: If you haven't seen the series finale, don't read! There are spoilers below.

By Erin McCarthy

Two years ago, I interviewed executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse about the science behind their show, Lost. And when I introduced myself to Cuse at a recent event, every nerd dream I ever had came true. "Are you still doing that 'Could it Happen?' column?" he asked.

"We are," I responded. "You guys are making it kind of hard for us this season, though."

"Yeah," Cuse concurred. "We're doing more fiction than science these days…"

Perhaps instead of fiction, Cuse should have used the word faith. When PM interviewed the producers, science ruled the day—but faith was a key player, too. "The core of the central theme of the show … is the notion of faith versus empiricism," Cuse said. "Jack represents the empiricist camp, and Locke represents the faith camp, and you know who is right? Well, the show hasn't fully answered that question yet."

"Hopefully it won't feel like it's a cop-out when the show does answer that question, because we never promised a show that was based entirely and grounded in science," Lindelof said. "It's nice that it's able to do that, but we reserve the right to go in the direction that the über-plan directs us."

And in the über-plan—finally laid out in the show's series finale, aptly titled "The End"— John Locke had it right all along. On the Island, Jack defeated the Man in Black, keeping the world safe from evil; then he saved the Island from sinking to the bottom of the ocean. In a call back to the pilot episode, Jack stumbled to the bamboo field where we saw him wake up six seasons ago to die, Vincent the dog by his side. But before his eyes closed, he saw the plane holding Kate, Sawyer and Claire (along with pilot Lapidus and Richard and Miles) flying overhead, back to the outside world. In the flash sideways, Christian Shephard explained that what we thought was a parallel universe wasn't that at all. Instead, we found out that the castaways had all died—at various points in time, some on the Island, some off, some before Jack and some long after—and that they had created a place where they could all find each other again and move on together. "Where are we going?" Jack asked his dad. "Let's go find out," his father responded.

This faith clearly can't be fact-checked. Thank goodness, then, that Cuse and Lindelof gave us one thing we could look in to: The duct tape fix that allowed Ajira 316—which had previously crash-landed—to leave the Island. "I don't believe in a lot of things, but I do believe in duct tape," Miles said as he channeled his inner MythBuster and used the super material to fix a hydraulic tube. (Fun fact: Lost's Ajira plane is completely digital. "An aircraft museum in Honolulu had a DC9 that we could've used [on set]," visual-effects supervisor Mitch Suskin told PM. "I did a little bit of checking, and I said, 'We can use this DC9 but you're talking about a nonstop flight from [Los Angeles] to Asia, and a DC9 can't even fly to Hawaii non-stop.' So we found a variant of the 737 that could go that far. The producers are cognizant of trying to make things credible.")

But could duct tape actually seal a tube—and hold long enough to get the castaways to land safely?

Lin Roberts of Flight Test Associates, which repairs and refurbishes aircraft, saw the episode and says in that situation, her biggest concern would be foreign-object damage to the engines and blades caused by the crash landing. "Unplanned landings on a dirt or gravel runway present all types of problems for the aircraft systems and the engines," she says. "You have rocks flying into the engines, tires blowing, landing gears twisting off and, of course, structural damage not always visible to the eye. So many situations can occur. Pieces can go flipping out and land in trees—but [they] would probably take the tree down in reality. I can't see anything just hanging there."

Surprisingly, Miles's and Lapidus's plan to seal a hydraulic tube using duct tape—that seemingly fail-safe, do-it-all material—probably wouldn't have worked. "I can see duct taping light items (like indicators) in place in the cockpit, as they sit in a shelf anyway," Roberts says. "But down in the bays under the cockpit, I think [Lapidus] was referring to all hoses/switches/electrical wires/plugs that were all connected together. I saw duct taping of that tube and shook my head and thought, 'Well, what are their options at that point of escaping?' It would probably hold for a few seconds." Hydraulic fluid in planes flows through tubes at 300 psi; most standard issue duct tapes will begin leaking fluid between 24 and 35 psi. (Another thing duct tape can't do? Seal HVAC tubing.)

A few seconds certainly wouldn't get the castaways the thousands of miles they needed to travel to get to another land mass. Roberts also points out that how much fuel was left would also figure into the success of their escape plan. "Good thing it was a fantasy situation," Roberts says. "Being an aircraft person, I would have stayed on the Island and gone to another level on my own!"

And that, dear readers, is our last Lost fact-check ever. Over the years, the writers and producers have portrayed science, medicine and technology in the clear light of fact—and sometimes they've veered into fiction. But through it all, they've always made us think. And for that, this editor is thankful.

 

[shuke]

what was the deal with Jack's son?

And why after he woke up after his surgery did Locke say to Jack "You don't have a son"?

Because he didn't.

 

[HellToupee]

what was the deal with Jack's son?

And why after he woke up after his surgery did Locke say to Jack "You don't have a son"?

Because he didn't.

 

[cstu]

what was the deal with Jack's son?

And why after he woke up after his surgery did Locke say to Jack "You don't have a son"?

Because he didn't.

Here's something else that doesn't make sense...they all lived new lives in the ATL/Purgatory yet all of that is immediately rendering moot the second they remember their Island life. Even though ATL/Purgatory wasn't "real" in the traditional sense, the lives they lived there should mean something to them. The writers got too smart here by trying to fool the audience about what the ATL really was and it ruined the ending for me.