*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (1 Viewer)

[southeastjerome]

I'm only on page 99 so I don't know if this has been mentioned. But after they set off that nuclear explosion from Jughead and Sawyer found Juliet, didn't she say, "It worked"? That's why I don't think the Island was real. Or if it was, then the sideways world was real. Why else would she say, it worked? That scene and quote aren't random. It was put in place knowing full well the direction they were going in.My take.....they were all dead BEFORE they even got on the plane. But I've also bounced around from theory to theory as well. And they all fit and all have their loop holes.

Did she say "it worked" when they were alive, or did Miles "hear" her say "it worked" after she was dead?

Miles told Sawyer this after she died.

That's what I thought. It worked in the sense that it got them back to 2007, allowing the events of season 6 to happen and for Julliette and Sawyer to be re-united in the afterlife. Which she knew because she was dead and in a place where time doesnt exist.

She also said "it worked" at the vending machine in the afterlife scene right when Sawyer flashes. When she said that, that's immediately what I thought of.

 

[sho nuff]

Why would need to have known people in real life to connect with people in the afterlife? If the island was created so that the characters could redeem themselves then they could conceivably experience a second life (the island) where they could overcome all of their demons.

So when Christian said that they all were the most important people in each others lives..it was not about their actual lives...but about some after life the whole time?Are you seriously reaching that far?

 

[menobrown]

I'm 100% positive she told him "it worked".

I'll try to find video but here is what I got some far from Lostpedia:

Knowing their cover was blown, Juliet helped Jack with his plan to change the past. As she, Sawyer, Kate and Miles aided Jack at the Swan site, she got pulled into the shaft. Down the shaft, she noticed the bomb, and in a desperate attempt to save everyone's lives, she detonated it. The explosion sent the survivors to 2007, where Sawyer tried to save her, but was unsuccessful, and she died in his arms. She tells Sawyer "It worked", although Sawyer does not know what is meant by this at the time

Link: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Juliet_Burke

Yes and no. She told Sawyer at the beginning when he first got down to her that it didn't work. She later said right before she died that she had something important to tell him, but she died before saying it. This was right after she had the same conversation that would later be had at the vending machine (coffee, go dutch, etc).

Later in the episode, or the next episode, Sawyer was burying her and brought Miles and forced him to tell him what Juliet was wanting to say. Miles recounted that she wanted to tell him "it worked".

You are correct. The only thing I was trying to get across was that she said "it worked" at some point or another. What I can't figure out is what worked?

 

[Marc Levin]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

That about sums it up.

This last season of Lost was "see chain, yank."

Still enjoyed the ride, though.

 

[cstu]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

That about sums it up.

So true.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I'm 100% positive she told him "it worked".

I'll try to find video but here is what I got some far from Lostpedia:

Knowing their cover was blown, Juliet helped Jack with his plan to change the past. As she, Sawyer, Kate and Miles aided Jack at the Swan site, she got pulled into the shaft. Down the shaft, she noticed the bomb, and in a desperate attempt to save everyone's lives, she detonated it. The explosion sent the survivors to 2007, where Sawyer tried to save her, but was unsuccessful, and she died in his arms. She tells Sawyer "It worked", although Sawyer does not know what is meant by this at the time

Link: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Juliet_Burke

Yes and no. She told Sawyer at the beginning when he first got down to her that it didn't work. She later said right before she died that she had something important to tell him, but she died before saying it. This was right after she had the same conversation that would later be had at the vending machine (coffee, go dutch, etc).

Later in the episode, or the next episode, Sawyer was burying her and brought Miles and forced him to tell him what Juliet was wanting to say. Miles recounted that she wanted to tell him "it worked".

You are correct. The only thing I was trying to get across was that she said "it worked" at some point or another. What I can't figure out is what worked?

(blows out)She got a glimpse of reconnecting with Sawyer in the Flash Sideways/Purgatory. She said it worked, referring to unplugging the vending machine so the candy bar would drop.

 

[cstu]

Just think, thousands of years ago island inhabitants were able to construct a natural irrigation system that acted as a coolant system AND an electromagnatic dispersal system to plug a hole that leads to who-knows-where. Thousands of years later those stupid Dharma people built hatch with a computer system that had to be manually inititated to trigger a vent every 108 minutes. Stupid Dharma people.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

This is the problem I have. I didn't watch any of this until 4 months ago when I saw all 5 seasons and the first 6 episodes of season 6. I have been told time and time again that this was a thinking person's show and Lost viewers were smarter then "24", heroes and other show viewers. This thread, and the lack of simple observation, confilicts with that statement.

To be fair, viewers of all shows are smarter than Heroes viewers. A super hero who cries tears of death? Jesus...

what if you watch lost and heroes?

I for one was more confused by Heroes than I ever was by Lost. My wife and I forced ourselves to watch Heroes til the end.

I watched all of "Heroes" too. Great first season marred by a weak finale. Show went downhill after that. What a waste of great potential.

I watched season one of Heroes up to just before the finale, then never watched another episode. I guess that makes me awesome.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I liked the final episode better than I liked most of the past couple seasons.

I still think, though, that the way 24 came back from being so far behind 2-3 years ago, only to pass Lost and win going away by the final buzzer, is one of the most drastic reversals in television history.

 

[prosopis]

Was that church also the lamp post station?

Yes, I believe it was. As big of a nerd as I am, I'm ashamed to admit it took me a while to figure it out.

I did not catch that. How did you figure it out? As soon as I read this I thought of Narnia.

 

[Sack-Religious]

It sounded nice and helped sway my opinion of the series in a more positive way, but wasn't it Richard who recruited a young Ben to the others and lead him to killing the Dharma folks? Richard is an agent of Jacob, so why would Richard lead a young Ben to either kill Jacob's candidates (if Dharma really were candidates) or believe that the MIB was Jacob?

Did Jacob say he brought Dharma to the island? Maybe he did, but then realized they were a threat to the light so had Richard convince Ben to kill them. :(Do we know if Richard ever saw Jacob after the scene he was annointed? Maybe Richard was acting on what he thought Jacob wanted.

Agreed. We saw the aftermath of what Mother apparently did to the people MiB were living with once they got too close to the light. DHARMA was similarly annihilated. Mass killings once you get too close to using the light/power of the island seems to be a recurring theme.I've been wondering the same thing about Richard. I think Ben, and by extension Richard might have been doing the work of MiB, thinking they were following Jacob's orders. There were Candidates among the DHARMA Initiative and MiB needed someone else to do his dirty work, and Ben was his pawn all along.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Just think, thousands of years ago island inhabitants were able to construct a natural irrigation system that acted as a coolant system AND an electromagnatic dispersal system to plug a hole that leads to who-knows-where. Thousands of years later those stupid Dharma people built hatch with a computer system that had to be manually inititated to trigger a vent every 108 minutes. Stupid Dharma people.

The two things you're writing about aren't the same. The light/electromagnetic energy and the island were in balance until other people came to the island and started trying to harness the power of the island. DHARMA drilled into a pocket of this energy, which upset that balance and I guess their COBOL skillz aren't quite as mad as yours so they had to design the computer system to enter the numbers in order to disperse the energy. Is this really that hard to understand, or are you being obstinate for shtick?

 

[Sack-Religious]

Was that church also the lamp post station?

Yes, I believe it was. :( As big of a nerd as I am, I'm ashamed to admit it took me a while to figure it out.

I did not catch that. How did you figure it out? As soon as I read this I thought of Narnia.

The Lamp Post station was shown in season 5, on two occasions. In "The Lie" and in "316." The name of the station is obviously a direct reference to Narnia.Doing a quick search, I haven't been able to find any exterior screenshots of the place from "The End" but I did find these, which show it to be the same place.

http://www.lostlocations.com/sacred-hearts-academy/ - outdoor shots of scenes from “316”

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Eloise%27s_church – Interior shots from “316”

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:MovingOn6x17.png – Interior shot from “The End”

 

[AcerFC]

I watched it again yesterday. I liked it much better on my second watch

 

[Angry Cheesehead]

I apologize if this has been brought up before.

Earlier, there was a lot of talk about the bomb going off and why no one was killed, etc. Am I the only one that still thinks the bomb didn't actually go off? What we saw happen was one final "timeflash" that we had been seeing all season? That could explain what Juliet actually ended up dying of, and ultimately started with the mumbo jumbo talk ("We can go dutch", "It worked") ala Charlotte? I could be way off, but it's still what I've continued to believe.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I apologize if this has been brought up before.

Earlier, there was a lot of talk about the bomb going off and why no one was killed, etc. Am I the only one that still thinks the bomb didn't actually go off? What we saw happen was one final "timeflash" that we had been seeing all season? That could explain what Juliet actually ended up dying of, and ultimately started with the mumbo jumbo talk ("We can go dutch", "It worked") ala Charlotte? I could be way off, but it's still what I've continued to believe.

Plausible. Regardless of whether it was the nuke or just another timeflash, the end result was that everyone was brought back together in 2007.And I think they explicitly used Charlotte recalling what she said to Daniel when she was a kid as she lay dying to throw us off the track of what Juliet was saying as she lay dying - which was from her "future", not her past.

In other words, we're supposed to think that Juliet is in recall mode rather than future mode.

 

[The Dude]

I apologize if this has been brought up before.Earlier, there was a lot of talk about the bomb going off and why no one was killed, etc. Am I the only one that still thinks the bomb didn't actually go off? What we saw happen was one final "timeflash" that we had been seeing all season? That could explain what Juliet actually ended up dying of, and ultimately started with the mumbo jumbo talk ("We can go dutch", "It worked") ala Charlotte? I could be way off, but it's still what I've continued to believe.

I wouldn't expect there to be a timeflash without the bomb. The flashes were due to the stupid donkey wheel being ajar - which was fixed by Locke - which IIRC was the reason the Losties were trapped in the past. So when Locke fixed the wheel, the flashes stopped - so there is no reason to expect a random flash.Unless Desmond wished it to happen becuase the rules don't apply to Deus ex Machina.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

re: jughead

I think the EMP pulse that occurs prior to the actual bomb explosion is what we are lead to believe caused the timeflash/jump and hence why nobody died from the actual explosion.

 

[packersfan]

I watched the final several minutes (starting with the Locke-Ben meeting outside the church) again last night. The ending resonated even more deeply watching it a second time.

Incredible finale for an amazing show. It's still hard to believe it's over.

 

[Porkchop Express]

I watched the final several minutes (starting with the Locke-Ben meeting outside the church) again last night. The ending resonated even more deeply watching it a second time.Incredible finale for an amazing show. It's still hard to believe it's over.

Im shocked you would feel this way.

 

[packersfan]

I watched the final several minutes (starting with the Locke-Ben meeting outside the church) again last night. The ending resonated even more deeply watching it a second time.Incredible finale for an amazing show. It's still hard to believe it's over.

Im shocked you would feel this way.

I can see that.I like your Avatar. Lee Van Cleef in the spaghetti westerns

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I watched the final several minutes (starting with the Locke-Ben meeting outside the church) again last night. The ending resonated even more deeply watching it a second time.

Incredible finale for an amazing show. It's still hard to believe it's over.

I've watched a lot of movies and my share of television (I'm American after all - don't let the avatar fool you).One of the most neglected techniques in all of film/television is that of pacing. It's the primary reason that the Star Wars prequels were so horrible - the pacing was off in nearly every scene. Another example to the bad is anything done by Michael Bay.

The last 10 minutes of Lost is paced about as well as you're going to see. No unnecessary dialog - the images speak for themselves. And where there could be too many cuts back and forth between the church and the island, the editors/producers nailed it.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I'm American after all

(mind blown)

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

I'm American after all

(mind blown)

If I was the real IIM, I'd be in the Shark Pool.

 

[packersfan]

It's the primary reason that the Star Wars prequels were so horrible - the pacing was off in nearly every scene.

I thought the "Star Wars" prequels were horrible because the characters were dull, the acting often atrocious (shocking considering the talent involved) and the story pointless because we already knew the ending. I agree about the pacing but I think the problems were extensive with those films.Agree about the final "Lost" moments. They really were well done. The final moments of Jack in the jungle were especially moving and powerful. And when you consider there was only one spoken line of dialogue in the final several minutes (Locke's "We were waiting for ya") and it was all just acting, imagery and music, it really points out well done that was.

Call me a sap if you want but I thought Jack dying in the jungle and ending the show with his eye closing was very powerful and moving.

 

[Hellfire Snail]

I watched the final several minutes (starting with the Locke-Ben meeting outside the church) again last night. The ending resonated even more deeply watching it a second time.

Incredible finale for an amazing show. It's still hard to believe it's over.

I've watched a lot of movies and my share of television (I'm American after all - don't let the avatar fool you).One of the most neglected techniques in all of film/television is that of pacing. It's the primary reason that the Star Wars prequels were so horrible - the pacing was off in nearly every scene. Another example to the bad is anything done by Michael Bay.

The last 10 minutes of Lost is paced about as well as you're going to see. No unnecessary dialog - the images speak for themselves. And where there could be too many cuts back and forth between the church and the island, the editors/producers nailed it.

I agree on this count. The back and forth cuts between the church and Jack on the island were very well done. Overall, Jack's final moments were handled great.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

It's the primary reason that the Star Wars prequels were so horrible - the pacing was off in nearly every scene.

I thought the "Star Wars" prequels were horrible because the characters were dull, the acting often atrocious (shocking considering the talent involved) and the story pointless because we already knew the ending. I agree about the pacing but I think the problems were extensive with those films.

I said "primary" not "only". Pacing was the main ingredient in that crap soup.

 

[packersfan]

It's the primary reason that the Star Wars prequels were so horrible - the pacing was off in nearly every scene.

I thought the "Star Wars" prequels were horrible because the characters were dull, the acting often atrocious (shocking considering the talent involved) and the story pointless because we already knew the ending. I agree about the pacing but I think the problems were extensive with those films.

I said "primary" not "only". Pacing was the main ingredient in that crap soup.

For me, it all boiled down to not giving a s**t.

 

[the moops]

My favorite part was Ben getting a chance to actually be with/speak to/help the protector of the island. Something that he had been tricked into believeing and lied about for his entire time there. Still wish he had a bigger role in the show. By far my favorite character.

 

[Porkchop Express]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

 

[Sack-Religious]

Agree about the final "Lost" moments. They really were well done. The final moments of Jack in the jungle were especially moving and powerful. And when you consider there was only one spoken line of dialogue in the final several minutes (Locke's "We were waiting for ya") and it was all just acting, imagery and music, it really points out well done that was.

Call me a sap if you want but I thought Jack dying in the jungle and ending the show with his eye closing was very powerful and moving.

This also very closely mirrored the opening sequence of the series when Jack wakes up in the bamboo field and there's no dialogue (aside from a Vincent bark and a Shannon scream) for the first several minutes. Again, it was all acting, imagery and sound effects. I can't recall whether there was music, but it's rather inconsequential.The ending sequence was powerful, emotional and moving. Even if it was a little telegraphed the effect wasn't diminished, at least for me.

 

[Dr. No]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"

The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

 

[Phurfur]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

It was a very weak ending. I had planned to go back and rewatch the show but now it doesn't seem like that is an option. I just don't care!

 

[SmoovySmoov]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"

The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

 

[packersfan]

Agree about the final "Lost" moments. They really were well done. The final moments of Jack in the jungle were especially moving and powerful. And when you consider there was only one spoken line of dialogue in the final several minutes (Locke's "We were waiting for ya") and it was all just acting, imagery and music, it really points out well done that was.

Call me a sap if you want but I thought Jack dying in the jungle and ending the show with his eye closing was very powerful and moving.

This also very closely mirrored the opening sequence of the series when Jack wakes up in the bamboo field and there's no dialogue (aside from a Vincent bark and a Shannon scream) for the first several minutes.

That's another reason why it worked so well for me. It was the perfect bookend to the series' beginnings.And as someone posted above, the cutaways from the church to Jack in the jungle were extremely well done as well.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Was that church also the lamp post station?

Yes, I believe it was. As big of a nerd as I am, I'm ashamed to admit it took me a while to figure it out.

I did not catch that. How did you figure it out? As soon as I read this I thought of Narnia.

The Lamp Post station was shown in season 5, on two occasions. In "The Lie" and in "316." The name of the station is obviously a direct reference to Narnia.Doing a quick search, I haven't been able to find any exterior screenshots of the place from "The End" but I did find these, which show it to be the same place.

http://www.lostlocations.com/sacred-hearts-academy/ - outdoor shots of scenes from “316”

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Eloise%27s_church – Interior shots from “316”

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:MovingOn6x17.png – Interior shot from “The End”

I never saw or read Narnia. What's the reference/meaning?

 

[sho nuff]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"

The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

Because doing it that way would not take up a few shows and would not be entertaining at all.

 

[Sack-Religious]

I never saw or read Narnia. What's the reference/meaning?

They're easy reads and are quite good books, if you have some time and need something to read, I recommend it, FWIW.I think the below two quotes describe fairly accurately the role and origin of the Lamp Post

http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Lamp-post

The Lamp-post was a major landmark in the country of Narnia, located in the northern unpopulated area, which was named Lantern Waste after it. Resembling a London streetlamp it stood in the middle of the forest and shone day and night. It was at the lamp-post that Lucy Pevensie first met Mr. Tumnus.

The Lamp-post originated in the first few days of Narnia's creation, from a bar of iron which Queen Jadis had torn from a London lamppost and thrown at Aslan. Aslan at the time was creating the living things of Narnia by his song, which made the ground of Narnia magically fertile and gave birth to the animals and plants of the world. The iron bar fell to the ground and, under the influence of Aslan's song, gave birth to a new lamppost, which grew from a few feet high to a full sized streetlight in a few hours.

The Lamp-post's ability to burn continuously without fuel (London streetlamps run on gas) may have been due to the fact that it is an organic living thing, not a manufactured artifact as other streetlamps are.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_lamp...ppost_in_Narnia

In the book "The Magician's Nephew", two young London children are somehow drawn into a "wood between the worlds," which is a central place from which all other worlds can be accessed. The boy, Digory, disobeys an edict not to ring a bell when he and Polly enter Charn, and by ringing the bell, they awaken the White Witch (Jadis of Charn).

When returning to their own world, Jadis follows the children, finding herself in London, where she is a tall and powerful woman. In rage, she breaks off piece of a lamppost and when they return to Narnia she is still holding it in her hand.

When Aslan starts to create the world, she is so terrified of this "singing lion" that she throws the lamppost piece at Aslan and runs away. The lamppost has absolutely no effect on Aslan, but because the whole of Narnia is just bursting forth with new life, like the rest of the trees the lamppost begins to grow up from out of the ground, becoming a life of its own with a light that never dies.

 

[bostonfred]

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

The "others" were following Ben. What Ben didn't realize is that he was following the smoke monster. He thought he was following Jacob, but Jacob wasn't communicating with them because he had been trapped in the cabin. Remember Ben saying that he thought he was summoning the smoke, when actually the smoke was summoning him? That was a pivotal moment. The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island. We don't know what else they were told, but there was a whole mythology that we got glimpses of throughout the show. I'm willing to live with the fact that we don't get an answer to why the others acted so mysteriously because it was consistent with how Jacob and the MIB interacted with people throughout time. I'm OK with a lot of the mysteries in the show being vague. I was pretty negative about the show during this season, but I thought the finale did a very good job of closing out the series. They established the beginning, middle and end of the real plot - which was some combination of the battle between Jacob and the MIB, or you can substitute "the island" for Jacob, and it turns out the others and Ben Linus worked for MIB for most of the show, whether they realized it or not. Time travel wasn't really a necessary part of the show for me, but I thought someone made a good point earlier that it was a plot device to get a deeper understanding of this iteration of the island, its protectors, and the people who wanted to steal its secrets. We learned a lot about Widmore and Hawkins and Farraday and Ben Linus and Richard Alpert, about Dharma, and about the hatch and the other stations, among other things. And this seems to have been just one iteration of the many times that a group came to the island, except this time, it didn't "always end the same". This was the story about Jack, the man who saved the world, and the people who helped him along the way. We got to see him arrive at the island, and the people he landed with, and we learned their deep dark secrets. We saw Jack have crises of faith. We saw at the lighthouse that Jacob had been watching Jack for a long time and knew that he was going to be the one. We saw the group of Others that stood in his way, and he was tested, like a hero should be. We don't know everything about the Others, but we learned a lot about their leader and their history and how they came to be, going all the way back to the 70s. We learned about good and evil, Jacob and Locke, the island and the people who would do it harm. And like a lot of hero stories, we started with a huge crisis - their plane falling apart in midair. But unlike those other stories, we got a hugely complete picture of their interrelationships, and their flaws, and their individual storylines. We got snippets of their past, and how they came to be on the plane together, we saw what could have happened if they just left the island and gave up instead of trying to protect it, and we not only followed them all the way to their death, we went past it. Eloise was one of the most fascinating characters in the show. She killed her son before she gave birth to him, then had to give birth to him and raise him so that she could kill him. That's just a fascinating tragedy. But we also got to see it from the father's perspective, and from the son's, and see how it warped all of them. We watched Charlie go from a man with very little substance and a drug addiction, to a wannabe husband, father and savior of the island. As annoying as I found his storyline, it was interesting watching the transformation from the guy who was smuggling balloons filled with heroin back to camp to the guy who sacrificed himself for the team when he wrote Not Penny's Boat. We watched a lot of flawed people go through these transformations, some successfully dealing with their issues, and moving on to the afterlife together, and others not. When you look at the show in that context, and start wondering why Eloise and Widmore weren't in the church, and wondering what would have happened if the MIB got off the island, and whether the bomb actually went off, and if the afterlife they were going to was "heaven" or something else, those become topics for discussion, instead of the important answers from the show. I'm cool with that. If I were going to draw a comparison to this show, it would be to movies like Signs and Contact. I loved both of those movies. I don't care that the aliens sucked, but a lot of people were livid with the Signs aliens with their huge fatal flaw and the Contact alien that you never really get to see. I was OK with those things because they fit in the context of the movies. I might be a little disappointed with the Signs aliens, but the movie turned that on its ear and said, it's not about the aliens. Similarly, I am a little disappointed that they left a lot of the mythology questions unanswered, and I think a lot of the plot devices they used were unnecessarily complicated. I don't agree with all of the mythology questions they answered and which ones they left open. I still want to know how Jacob could grant Richard Alpert eternal life and how his wife could appear on the island and why Hurley could see dead people and Miles could hear them and how all kinds of other stuff worked, too. But the further removed I am from the show, the more I realize that it did the things it set out to do really well. They created an epic in a made up world like the island with a battle between good and evil and a hero and his counterparts and told the story from before the beginning to after the end. That's audacious, and looking back, they nailed it.

 

[Sack-Religious]

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

The "others" were following Ben. What Ben didn't realize is that he was following the smoke monster. He thought he was following Jacob, but Jacob wasn't communicating with them because he had been trapped in the cabin. Remember Ben saying that he thought he was summoning the smoke, when actually the smoke was summoning him? That was a pivotal moment. The "others" had been told that people who come to the island were bad, and that they were supposed to protect the island. We don't know what else they were told, but there was a whole mythology that we got glimpses of throughout the show. I'm willing to live with the fact that we don't get an answer to why the others acted so mysteriously because it was consistent with how Jacob and the MIB interacted with people throughout time. I'm OK with a lot of the mysteries in the show being vague. I was pretty negative about the show during this season, but I thought the finale did a very good job of closing out the series. They established the beginning, middle and end of the real plot - which was some combination of the battle between Jacob and the MIB, or you can substitute "the island" for Jacob, and it turns out the others and Ben Linus worked for MIB for most of the show, whether they realized it or not. Time travel wasn't really a necessary part of the show for me, but I thought someone made a good point earlier that it was a plot device to get a deeper understanding of this iteration of the island, its protectors, and the people who wanted to steal its secrets. We learned a lot about Widmore and Hawkins and Farraday and Ben Linus and Richard Alpert, about Dharma, and about the hatch and the other stations, among other things. And this seems to have been just one iteration of the many times that a group came to the island, except this time, it didn't "always end the same". This was the story about Jack, the man who saved the world, and the people who helped him along the way. We got to see him arrive at the island, and the people he landed with, and we learned their deep dark secrets. We saw Jack have crises of faith. We saw at the lighthouse that Jacob had been watching Jack for a long time and knew that he was going to be the one. We saw the group of Others that stood in his way, and he was tested, like a hero should be. We don't know everything about the Others, but we learned a lot about their leader and their history and how they came to be, going all the way back to the 70s. We learned about good and evil, Jacob and Locke, the island and the people who would do it harm. And like a lot of hero stories, we started with a huge crisis - their plane falling apart in midair. But unlike those other stories, we got a hugely complete picture of their interrelationships, and their flaws, and their individual storylines. We got snippets of their past, and how they came to be on the plane together, we saw what could have happened if they just left the island and gave up instead of trying to protect it, and we not only followed them all the way to their death, we went past it. Eloise was one of the most fascinating characters in the show. She killed her son before she gave birth to him, then had to give birth to him and raise him so that she could kill him. That's just a fascinating tragedy. But we also got to see it from the father's perspective, and from the son's, and see how it warped all of them. We watched Charlie go from a man with very little substance and a drug addiction, to a wannabe husband, father and savior of the island. As annoying as I found his storyline, it was interesting watching the transformation from the guy who was smuggling balloons filled with heroin back to camp to the guy who sacrificed himself for the team when he wrote Not Penny's Boat. We watched a lot of flawed people go through these transformations, some successfully dealing with their issues, and moving on to the afterlife together, and others not. When you look at the show in that context, and start wondering why Eloise and Widmore weren't in the church, and wondering what would have happened if the MIB got off the island, and whether the bomb actually went off, and if the afterlife they were going to was "heaven" or something else, those become topics for discussion, instead of the important answers from the show. I'm cool with that. If I were going to draw a comparison to this show, it would be to movies like Signs and Contact. I loved both of those movies. I don't care that the aliens sucked, but a lot of people were livid with the Signs aliens with their huge fatal flaw and the Contact alien that you never really get to see. I was OK with those things because they fit in the context of the movies. I might be a little disappointed with the Signs aliens, but the movie turned that on its ear and said, it's not about the aliens. Similarly, I am a little disappointed that they left a lot of the mythology questions unanswered, and I think a lot of the plot devices they used were unnecessarily complicated. I don't agree with all of the mythology questions they answered and which ones they left open. I still want to know how Jacob could grant Richard Alpert eternal life and how his wife could appear on the island and why Hurley could see dead people and Miles could hear them and how all kinds of other stuff worked, too. But the further removed I am from the show, the more I realize that it did the things it set out to do really well. They created an epic in a made up world like the island with a battle between good and evil and a hero and his counterparts and told the story from before the beginning to after the end. That's audacious, and looking back, they nailed it.

This is really, really well said BFred.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

The "others" were following Ben. What Ben didn't realize is that he was following the smoke monster. He thought he was following Jacob, but Jacob wasn't communicating with them because he had been trapped in the cabin. Remember Ben saying that he thought he was summoning the smoke, when actually the smoke was summoning him? That was a pivotal moment.

Well, we never confirmed that Jacob was stuck in the cabin, or what it really was. We know that something was trapped there because of the "help me" but I always thought it was Smokey based on the circle of ash surrounding it, the fact that we know smokey couldnt penetrate ash circle for some reason, and that Ilana was freaked out when she saw that the ash circle had been broken.

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

wow, nice novella bostonfred. Well done

 

[cstu]

not sure if this is a honda

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Awesome.Seems easy to create interesting mysteries but it takes skill to resolve them adequately. Either the writers didnt have the skill or had no intention of resolving them. In any event, it created a very disappointing final season.

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"

The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

Because doing it that way would not take up a few shows and would not be entertaining at all.

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told by MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

 

[boubucarow]

But the further removed I am from the show, the more I realize that it did the things it set out to do really well. They created an epic in a made up world like the island with a battle between good and evil and a hero and his counterparts and told the story from before the beginning to after the end. That's audacious, and looking back, they nailed it.

Great read. I feel as though the farther I get from the finale, the more I liked it and liked the overall arc of the show. Each day I become more convinced I need to watch Lost all over again.

 

[Sack-Religious]

And i'm not sure who said it.. but I don't get why the others (especially after finding the manifest) couldn't have just gone up to the survivors nicely and said.. "Hi, we live here and stuff, and you don't. In exchange for Jack graciously doing this surgery on Ben we'll just ship you right back to the USA via Sub. Keep it real dudes"The motivations of many of these characters is completely irrational... and without knowing why they were doing what they were doing, the story leaves me with little meaning.

The "others" were following Ben. What Ben didn't realize is that he was following the smoke monster. He thought he was following Jacob, but Jacob wasn't communicating with them because he had been trapped in the cabin. Remember Ben saying that he thought he was summoning the smoke, when actually the smoke was summoning him? That was a pivotal moment.

Well, we never confirmed that Jacob was stuck in the cabin, or what it really was. We know that something was trapped there because of the "help me" but I always thought it was Smokey based on the circle of ash surrounding it, the fact that we know smokey couldnt penetrate ash circle for some reason, and that Ilana was freaked out when she saw that the ash circle had been broken.

I meant to say this, but got caught up in my overall love for the post.I agree that it was more than likely MiB/Smokey in the cabin, at least from the shots we've seen of it.Jacob seems to have made the foot of the Tawaret statue his home since at least the 1800's and the look, decoration and "furniture" in the cabin certainly didn't seem to be ancient. Old, yes, but not ancient. Perhaps Jacob stayed in it from time to time and we were given a bit of confirmation of this since Ilana believed it to be Jacob's and said that he hadn't been there in a long time. Maybe Jacob stayed there and put the ash around it to keep Smokey out?The more I think about it the more the whole cabin thing is an unresolved mystery. Nothing we've seen would indicate that MiB/Smokey was ever trapped in it. That's not to say he wasn't, but we've been given no indication that he was, either. All we've seen is a broken circle of ash which may, or may not, mean something. Personally, I think he may have influenced someone to break the circle so he could get in, to continue his manipulation of Ben.

 

[SuperJohn96]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character.

...well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.

So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

 

[boubucarow]

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told my MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

The Others wanted to get rid of all comers and couldn't kill the candidates. I don't think we can assume Jacob wouldn't have instructed all of this. He wrote the lists with names that the Others needed to protect/not kill so I assume he knew they would kill newcomers probably through his orders. Humans in the past like Dharma attempted to harness the power of the island which would threaten the island. It seems that many visitors appeared to do the same thing probably in part due to the influence of MIB attempting to reach the light. The motivation of the Others was that Ben/Jacob/Richard convinced them that the Island was a special place (and with live saving water among other things, it isn't hard to understand) and they needed to listen to Ben/Jacob/Richard in order to keep it that way.

 

[boubucarow]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character....well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

I don't understand why any of this matters. Judge the show on what we saw. Who cares if they didn't have a plan and made it up as they went along? You liked it or you didn't.

 

[Sack-Religious]

The show ultimately fails though because the motivations of the characters don't match what they actually do. There's absolutely no reason for the Others to do what they did. I don't buy bostonfred's excuse that the Others thought the people brought to the island were bad because they were told my MiB. It's just an idiotic game between Jacob and MiB if Jacob wasn't even communicating with the Others and allowing MiB to masquerade as him.

You don't seem to realize that Jacob was ALL about free will and leaving it up to the people he brought to the island to make the right choice. But, he was also flawed — he was naive and immature in many ways and Alpert had to convince him to that he needed an intermediary otherwise he could never prove that the fundamental nature of man is good.Jacob was very "hands off" in his leadership. You may not like that, I get that, but that's that nature of his character that he inherited from Mother. Again, you might not like that, but just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.So, here we have Jacob being hands off, hoping that his Candidates make the right choices and come to the right conclusions. This ultimately led him him getting stabbed by Ben. Right up until the end, he hoped Ben would do the right thing so he didn't intervene, even though he knew his life was on the line. If you can't see this, I'm not sure you were watching the same show as the rest of us.MiB had to find a way to kill Jacob's potential replacements and influencing the Others to do just that was a means to an end.

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

I've read a few times how they wrote or at least knew how the show was going to end from the very beginning, and they never deviated from that, which meant Ben being so popular that his arc grew from a planned 3 episodes but that he couldn't enter the church despite now being a major character....well my problem with this is that Michael Keaton was originally supposed to play the part of Dr. Jack Sheppard because that character was supposed to be killed off in Episode #1.So the entire concept of the show changed to revolve around Jack...which means I don't really buy into this preplanned ending not ever having changed...simply because the main character was never supposed to be there when they first created this show...Kate was supposed to be the leader.

I do not believe for a second that they had any ideas since day 1. They wrote it as they went IMO. Doesnt change anything for me, but no way I will ever believe that