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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)

Ian Rapoport
‏@RapSheet
The #Cowboys are sending a first-round pick to the #Raiders for WR Amari Cooper, source said. Big move for Dallas.

 
Gruden was hired to immediately cut costs for the franchise as they prepare to move to LV. That is clear to me.

In exchange, he got some serious job security. 

 
Will be interesting to see how Gruden spins it next when all his 1st round picks are disappointing.

Browns fans now feel sorry for Raider fans. ?

Prediction: Carr to the Fish for a 1st this off season. 

 
We are in the driver seat for a top 3 pick from our record. The Bears and Cowboys are both looking to be at worst mid round selections. 

I find it funny how the winds change. I am not happy with the year. Disappointed is an understatement. Depressed is more accurate. But man, have I heard gripes about Cooper for the last couple of years and now that we shipped him for a solid 1st round pick.... witching and moaning. Sure, I see how the Mack trade hurts and colors everything backed by a 1-5 record. But I wonder, do some of you just lash out about anything and everything?

 
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Seriously, Jon Gruden has taken on the Roger Goodell role for the Raiders. Take all the flack directed our way and we will reward you handsomely for it, no matter how bad it looks.

 
Why would anyone show up the remainder of the season if they want to see competitive football? 

Nice call on the GMan and Jacksonville as landing spots for Carr as well. May as well see what they can get for Bruce Irvin as well. 

 
Emotions are a funny thing.  As a life long Raiders fan, it's hard to look at everything that has happened this year without emotions factoring into the equation.  But I will try.

I was devastated by the Mack trade.  Not only because he's such an elite player etc., but because I went to UB as did my son, who was there for Mack's final year at UB so I have a Mack Buffalo jersey as well as his Raiders jersey.  Kind of a special connection to the guy.  But in the end, and after some time, I am not as upset about the move anymore.  This team has lots of needs and the kind of money Mack got, we just couldn't afford to pay and bring in other players.  Spinning off from that, Oakland is clearly invested in Carr.  I am here to tell you, Carr isn't getting traded.  Gruden loves him and wants to train the lad (not transfer him off the base).  But everyone and anyone else is on notice.  I have no problem with the Cooper trade.  I loved him when he first got here, but he's had lots of problems with his routes and drops.  For a team rebuilding, getting a first rounder for a struggling player with talent is fine by me.

The way I look at it, 2018 is a lost year for us.  2019, hopefully, not so much and hopefully more on the upswing.  It's all about getting to Vegas and taking the world by storm in 2020.  If you're going to "rebuild", I actually think the way we are doing it is not bad.  We're stocking up on draft picks and giving our young players an opportunity for valuable playing time and experience now.  Hopefully, the re-boot is short and at the very latest we can be a playoff contender our first year in Vegas. 

I will say, though, that I'm a little surprised to hear Conley's name being specifically mentioned in trade talks.  It sounds like he's finally relatively healthy.  Unless Gruden sees things in practice he doesn't like, it feels kind of early to give up on a young player who appears to have real talent.  I guess we'll have to see how that plays out.

In all, it sucks being a Raiders fan today.  It's hard to sit back and stay positive for a brighter future.  I've been saying this is our year for years now.  I'm trying to stay positive and find the silver linings where I can.  Getting a first for a struggling Cooper is a pretty good silver lining in my eyes.   

 
This is a great move by the Raiders.  Cooper was a good but not great WR and getting a first round draft pick is fantastic.  The Raiders started rebuilding for 2021 as soon as Mack was shipped off.  I don't think Gruden can build a team but we have years before we can make that determination. 

Carr is gone in 2 years.  Gruden will draft his QB in the first round next year or year after.  The Raiders need to find a real OC in the next couple of years to have any chance in this high-scoring league. 

The Raiders are the new Browns.  One or two wins each season for the next couple of years is a real possibility. 

 
DocHolliday said:
This is a great move by the Raiders.  Cooper was a good but not great WR and getting a first round draft pick is fantastic.  The Raiders started rebuilding for 2021 as soon as Mack was shipped off.  I don't think Gruden can build a team but we have years before we can make that determination. 

Carr is gone in 2 years.  Gruden will draft his QB in the first round next year or year after.  The Raiders need to find a real OC in the next couple of years to have any chance in this high-scoring league. 

The Raiders are the new Browns.  One or two wins each season for the next couple of years is a real possibility. 
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I'm not sure I agree with the part about being the new Browns and 1-2 wins a year in the short term.  I met Gruden and let me tell you, he is exactly what he purports to be.  He is a what you see is what you get kind of guy.  He loves, loves football and is a very fierce competitor.  We're obviously rebuilding but I don't think he'll be complacent and be satisfied with plodding out teams that aren't competitive or giving it their all.  Trust me, he wants to win.  I'm not a happy camper with all that's going on, but I am begrudgingly keeping an open mind and hoping for the best.  I have cautious optimism for Gruden. 

 
Silver & Black said:
I'm not sure I agree with the part about being the new Browns and 1-2 wins a year in the short term.  I met Gruden and let me tell you, he is exactly what he purports to be.  He is a what you see is what you get kind of guy.  He loves, loves football and is a very fierce competitor.  We're obviously rebuilding but I don't think he'll be complacent and be satisfied with plodding out teams that aren't competitive or giving it their all.  Trust me, he wants to win.  I'm not a happy camper with all that's going on, but I am begrudgingly keeping an open mind and hoping for the best.  I have cautious optimism for Gruden. 
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No offense but unless you're neighbors hanging out having neighborhood BBQs, playing pool in your man caves while drinking bourbon and the like I think you met the guy we have all see on TV every week for the past decade.

 
Chaka said:
No offense but unless you're neighbors hanging out having neighborhood BBQs, playing pool in your man caves while drinking bourbon and the like I think you met the guy we have all see on TV every week for the past decade.
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Lol, that's true.  I was introduced to him briefly at an event a bunch of years ago and only spoke with him for like 9 seconds.  I then spent a few hours mingling etc.  You're probably right, but from the limited exposure I did have, he just seems like an intense dude.  It just seems like that's who he is. 

 
Cooper was supposed to be one of the most Pro-ready WRs coming out. I'm baffled at how poorly he's played the last 1.5 years.

I'm also pleasantly surprised we were able to get a 1st for him.

 
I swear I had a post saying that I would be happy with trading Cooper for a 1st if we could get it and then someone even replied saying no one would give up a 1st for him.... apparently I dreamed that exchange because I can not find it. 

So, I posted this in the Amari Cooper thread. It pretty is my thinking on this in a concise way of putting it: 

The kid is super talented. He has been ultra inconsistent though except for a pretty consistent issue with dropped balls. Under Del Rio's regime, they really made an effort to work him into the games- almost to a fault. It always seemed to me that they had to put too much effort in the gameplan to make him the #1 than him being or taking the #1 WR. Maybe he flourishes in a new system. On past accomplishments, I am happy with a 1st, which looks to be a solid mid rounder if not better, to ship him off. 
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The way he has been playing.... is he worth $13 million and passing on a 1st round pick? I say no. Not even close. The Mack trade is/was hard to defend and it took effort to find the reasoning. On this one, we traded a young kid who never seemed to fulfill his promise even on some decent stat numbers in the past. I think we traded his potential and name for a 1st because we sure did not trade his production for a 1st. 

 
My take on this whole mess is Gruden wants to put a team out there that he believes will result in a super bowl.  Prior to his rehire he was a Raider legend.  In three to five years either he will still be a Raider legend or a bum who set us back for another 10 year loosing span.  A few points that still have me in his corner:

Mack Trade - yeah.  Hate to see him go.  But that defense has SO many wholes and has for years.  That has to be fixed.  So why tie up all that money.  Keeping Mack would not have changed this defense much.  Too many wholes.  Sure - he is having a great year.  Glad to see it (but not too much since it impacts our picks).  But he went from a defense ranked in the mid-20's to a top ten defense before his arrival.  He does not get the same amount of attention. Of course he is going to look good.

Cooper trade - drops last year bothered me.  Not sure why he disappears so much.  Is it his route running?  Lack of competitiveness to get open? Or Carr?  Who knows but starting over at WR.

This years draft - So far looks pretty solid. Hurst looks like the real deal.  Hopefully with time Key and Hall can fulfill there potential.  That's three good young players to start building a proper defense around.  Maybe Conley sticks and works on his style, maybe not.  Josephs is probably gone.  Wasn't that spectacular anyway. So perhaps Gruden can follow up the 2018 draft with a few more good ones.

Those Aged veteran signings - I truly believe he saw the wholes and just tried to patch them with what was available at the time.  Didn't want to lock in anyone long term and didn't.  Maybe hoped some of them could teach the younger players along the way. 

2016 was a fluke.  Soft schedule with a little luck thrown in to tease us.  We were not that good then and was pretty much the same team when Gruden took over so he certainly isn't breaking up a dynasty that was in the making.

Now......where is that Kool-Aid I was drinking.....

 
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Like most here, very disappointed to see what's happening to this team.

But also like many, I saw the Mack trade for what it was -- our bid to keep Carr in place, as I do think Gruden thinks he can run his system well, and without affecting either Gruden's deal or becoming weaker overall everywhere else given the cap allocation to Carr and Mack, we couldn't keep them both.

I flat out love Cooper. Always think he was a quiter, anti-diva WR who had a chip on his shoulder and was out to prove himself -- bulking up in offseason, putting it on himself to improve. He never fully came together, and some of that is on him - the drops, never seeming like a guy who will fight tooth and nail for every ball -- but a good part of that was the offense around him that never found a way to utilize him to shine consistently, as it was clear he could.

But it might also simply be that he couldn't shine consistently. That more of his inconsistency was on him, and that he had been inconsistent whether there was a credible opposing WR threat (Crabree was definitely one and consistently looked better than Cooper aside from those singular blow-up games Cooper would unpredictably have) that helped draw coverage away or not (like this year). He wasn't a guy who seemed to be able to fight through aggressive man coverage -- even in single coverage.

I believe in his talent, but it simply may come down to what you saw in Cooper is what you'd always get -- inconsistency.

And getting a first round pick for him? As much as it sucks to see another part of this team sloughed off, I literally do not see how we don't leap all over that any day of the week.

I'm kinda with @Silver & Black on this -- Gruden still has TONS to prove, but if the plan is to rebuild under his plan, we are definitely aggressively doing that, but with some credible return immediately to vie for a Top 3 pick in next year's draft, and still have solid additional options in the first round and in early/mid rounds. 

Unlike the Browns, I am hoping/expecting that it doesn't take 3-5 consecutive years of having the Top 1 or 2 picks to get us part of the way there.

If the plan was to blow up the team and rebuild in Gruden's vision, not much our whinging about it will do, and to be honest, we can bemoan the loss of players but it's not as if they were doing us any good as it was.

Better to rip the band-aid off, and put ourselves in a position we can immediately rebuild -- which by all appearances, we have.

 
And by the way? Gruden will 100% look for a QB to draft. I'd be disappointed if he traded up to pick a QB in the first three picks as opposed to leaping to 1 or 2 to secure Bosa or another area of glaring need.

But at this point, we have nothing dependable behind Carr whatsoever. And while I still believe Carr is still Gruden's guy, and can shake off the funk with some better pieces around him, it behooves the team to get a quality guy behind Carr given the shaky trajectory and injury history.

At best, we have a Brady/Garoppolo situation (Carr is no Brady but the point stands) -- it's a high class problem to have two solid QBs if Carr rights the ship.

If not, we have a good backup to step in his place, and perhaps trade Carr next year or later to continue to bolster the squad in 2020/2021.

Just because Gruden will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds (and I think he will) does not mean he will replace Carr. But he'd be foolish not to look for the next guy up in case Carr can't turn it around. Who knows, the competition might even help.

 
I'll just leave this here: 

The 5 stages of the grieving process:

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. 

My football season in a nutshell. 

 
Below is Gruden's draft history with Tampa when he had final say in the drafts. What gives anyone confidence that Gruden will make any better picks now? Good grief.

Code: 
2002				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
3	86	Marquise Walker	WR	Michigan
4	119	Travis Stephens	RB	Tennessee
5	157	Jermaine Phillips	DB	Georgia
6	193	John Stamper	DE	South Carolina
7	233	Tim Wansley	DB	Georgia
7	250	Tracey Wistrom	TE	Nebraska
7	254	Aaron Lockett	WR	Kansas State
7	255	Zack Quaccia	C	Stanford
				
2003				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
2	64	Dewayne White	DE	Louisville
3	97	Chris Simms	QB	Texas
4	130	Lance Nimmo	OT	West Virginia
4	133	Austin King	C	Northwestern
5	168	Sean Mahan	OG	Notre Dame
6	205	Torrie Cox	DB	Pittsburgh
				
2004				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
1	15	Michael Clayton	WR	Louisiana State
3	79	Marquis Cooper	LB	Washington
4	111	Will Allen	DB	Ohio State
5	146	Jeb Terry	OG	North Carolina
6	181	Nate Lawrie	TE	Yale
7	206	Mark Jones	WR	Tennessee
7	228	Casey Cramer	TE	Dartmouth
7	252	Lenny Williams	DB	Southern
				
2005				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
1	5	Carnell Williams	RB	Auburn
2	36	Barrett Ruud	LB	Nebraska
3	71	Alex Smith	TE	Stanford
3	91	Chris Colmer	OT	North Carolina State
4	107	Dan Buenning	OG	Wisconsin
5	141	Donte Nicholson	DB	Oklahoma
5	155	Larry Brackins	WR	Pearl River CC (MS)
6	178	Anthony Bryant	DT	Alabama
7	221	Rick Razzano	RB	Mississippi
7	225	Paris Warren	WR	Utah
7	231	Hamza Abdullah	DB	Washington State
7	253	J.R. Russell	WR	
				
2006				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
1	23	Davin Joseph	OG	Oklahoma
2	59	Jeremy Trueblood	OT	Boston College
3	90	Maurice Stovall	WR	Notre Dame
4	122	Alan Zemaitis	DB	Penn State
5	156	Julian Jenkins	DE	Stanford
6	194	Bruce Gradkowski	QB	Toledo
6	202	T.J. Williams	TE	North Carolina State
7	235	Justin Phinisee	DB	Oregon
7	241	Charles Bennett	DE	Clemson
7	244	Tim Massaquoi	TE	Michigan
				
2007				
Round	Pick	Player	Position	College
1	4	Gaines Adams	DE	Clemson
2	35	Arron Sears	OT	Tennessee
2	64	Sabby Piscitelli	DB	Oregon State
3	68	Quincy Black	LB	New Mexico
4	106	Tanard Jackson	DB	Syracuse
5	141	Greg Peterson	DT	North Carolina Central
6	182	Adam Hayward	LB	Portland State
7	214	Chris Denman	OT	Fresno State
7	245	Marcus Hamilton	DB	Virginia
7	246	Kenneth Darby	RB	Alabama
 
I think his more recent work is more relevant. So far, a decent class of rookies and UDFA.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/csn/raiders/Analyzing_Jon_Gruden_s_2018_Raiders_rookie_class-498163481.html

Let's take a look at the rookies contributing (or, in one case, set to contribute) to this year's squad:

LT Kolton Miller: The UCLA product has struggled the last few weeks playing through injury, but there's a strong belief Miller's the long-term solution at an important position.

DT P.J. Hall: An early-season ankle sprain has slowed his progress and dulled his impact. He isn't a hulk, but Hall could develop into a tenacious inside pass rusher who can push the pocket.

RT Brandon Parker: The small-school product has a long way to go, but must learn on the job now that Donald Penn's on injured reserve. He isn't doing half bad considering he missed most of training camp with an ankle issue.

DE Arden Key: He has all the bend, length and athleticism coaches want in an edge rusher. He's technically proficient, but must be more efficient to consistently impact the cornerback. There's room for improvement against the run and to avoid biting on play action and misdirection.

CB Nick Nelson: Gruden believes the Wisconsin cover man is finally healthy and ready to contribute after tearing his meniscus during the pre-draft process. He has been inactive most weeks.

DT Maurice Hurst: Hurst will be viewed as a fifth-round steal in time. Hurst is the Raiders' most polished rookie, and has been effective against the run and pass. He could be a mainstay in the starting lineup.

P Johnny Townsend: The Florida product has disappointed thus far, proving unable to flip field position in the Raiders' favor. He hasn't shown enough power, and has shanked too many to be acceptable at the pro level.

LS Trent Sieg: Sieg has been a serviceable replacement after Andrew DePaola tore his ACL.

K Matt McCrane: He has missed four field goals in three games, and kickoffs haven't been steadily deep enough. McCrane must do better, or the team could look to another kicker.

LB Jason Cabinda: The undrafted rookie was promoted from the practice squad after Derrick Johnson was released. Cabinda will make his NFL debut next week against Indianapolis

Drafted players who didn't make the regular-season roster: LB Azeem Victor (waived), WR Marcell Ateman (on practice squad),

Undrafted players on IR or practice squad. RB Chris Warren III (IR), WR Saeed Blacknall (practice squad); K Eddy Piñeiro (IR), FB Ryan Yuracheck (practice squad), TE Paul Butler (practice squad), S Dallin Leavitt (practice squad)

 
Sarlakticacid said:
How are the QBs in next years draft compared to the last few years?
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I'd love to know how this year's draft class stacks up in general across all positions.

Our needs are everywhere, and we look to be in a position to have multiple early round picks. As a guy who doesn't follow tons of college, would be interested in opinions from those who do.

If I recall it's been said that it's going to be a great year for pass rushers with guys like Bosa, Ed Oliver, Dexter Lawrence, Raekwon Davis, Rashan Gary, et al. Definitely a position of need, and maybe even factored in to trading away Mack.

Also heard that WR might be deep with guys like AJ Brown, N'Keal Harry, Ahmmon Richards, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, Marquise Brown, and others.

Also heard that it's a terrible draft class outside of just Bosa and Oliver, and that the draft is thin on talent everywhere else. Definitely heard that about the QB class. 

Given that we're clearly rebuilding now, would love to start talking about what we might do now, if only to start boning up on potential Raiders come April 2019.

 
I can't imagine anyone here was looking forward to paying Cooper elite WR money. The fact that we found some sucker to give us a 1st for him I think is an offer we can't refuse.

If I was a Dallas fan I'd be pissed. Giving a 1st for a decent WR who is due for a pay raise but could of instead had Earl Thomas for the same 1st. A proven all pro and truly elite player.

 
2019 Draft Pick Watch, Week 7 Update:  3 picks in the Top 18.

Pick 4 (Oakland)
1 from spots 8 through 14 (Dallas)
1 from spots 15 through 18 (Chicago)

See you in a week.

 
BusterTBronco said:
I'm probably in the minority on this but I like what Gruden is doing.  He's following the Houston Astros model.  The team will suck bad for a couple of years but then they'll be really good.
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Proof will be in the pudding, but the opportunity to limit that pain to 1 or 2 years, rather than 305, is definitely there given the influx of talent we can amass through the next two drafts and the money we have to spend in FA.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Proof will be in the pudding, but the opportunity to limit that pain to 1 or 2 years, rather than 305, is definitely there given the influx of talent we can amass through the next two drafts and the money we have to spend in FA.
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Yep.  Just have to stay away from the Soloman Thomas's of the world with the top 5 picks.   Global killer when you waste those.  

 
DocHolliday said:
We should start a poll on who is traded next.  Its probably Conley or Joseph.  My guess is Conley. 
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I don't think there is any question -- it's clear that where there has been smoke (in terms of rumors about the Raiders trading Mack, then Cooper), we saw the fire immediately thereafter (trading Mack, then Cooper).

I hope we give Conley the chance as it looks like he could develop and is in a position of need. But there already has been smoke here.

 
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