*** OFFICIAL Off Season Patriots Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Why wait for the body to get cold? Pats have lots of issues heading into next year after missing the post season at 11-5.

Schedule should be tougher than this year:

Home games

Bills

Dolphins

Falcons

Jaguars

Jets

Panthers

Ravens

Titans

Road games

Bills

Broncos

Buccaneers (in London)

Colts

Dolphins

Jets

Saints

Texans

While it will mean very little this time next year, that's 7 playoff teams from 08 and 13 games against teams .500 or better.

Questions include Brady, Cassel, secondary, LB corps, extending key players, RB, TE, and pirating of coaches/management.

 

[chook]

After your Brady injury news earlier today, I think the Cassel FA situation will be the most intriguing NFL story of the entire off season by miles.

I am far from a Patriots fan, but have loved the way Cassel has played this year after years of waiting and want to see him succeed in his career.

It will be interesting to see which out of all the possibilities that will no doubt be thrown up in this thread will actually pan out.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Didn't see such a thread yet, so here it is...Obvious IssuesCassel vs Brady, etc.Disposition of PioliKey player acquisitions / departuresDraft picks (1 per round except 2 second rounders)Rookie / New Player emergenceOther?I wasn't going to start this thread until I realized I could plagerize some good posting by Phlash in the "Best up and coming defenses" thread...thanks Plash!

Patriots defense is trimming out the old players. Last year was a transition and they still ranked #8 in points allowed, and #10 in yards allowed.They have a lot of young DB talent:LCB) Tyrone Wheatley was looking like a 5 year veteran before his injury last season. He should be a starter from day one.RCB) Jonathan Wilhite played great down the stretch - far above his draft position in the 4th round. He was making a lot of plays and had very sound instincts. Ideally he gets moved to nickel back and Ellis Hobbs, who is also very young, takes his spot as the RCB.FS) Brandon Meriweather is one of the best young safeties in the NFL.SS) James Sanders is young and solid, but while he is a decent starter he'd be a much better backup. This position should be upgraded in the offseason.They have a lot of young LB talent:WILB) DROY Jerod Mayo. Guy is a machine, and was already calling the defensive plays as a 22 year old rookie.SILB) Gary Guyton. He is an uber athlete (6'3" 250lbs, 4.4 forty yard time, incredible cone time) who is also very intelligent, and worked his way into a starting position midseason despite being an UDFA, before the injury to Bruschi, in fact. He also played some OLB and looks to be a steal.LOLB) Pierre Woods, who stepped in for Adalius after the injury, played very well. He is a huge guy (6'5" 250) and is a solid pass rusher. He's 27, which means he should be in his prime in the next few years.ROLB) Shawn Crable looked great in preseason before getting injured. He was the Patriots 3rd round pick last year and should push someone for a starting role this season.DLINE) Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren are all Pro-Bowl caliber players.

I'd light to hear everyone's thoughts on the young players Phlash mentions...It would appear to me that, at a minimum, Wheatley and Crable can be counted on as strong starting players in the future. Meriweather seems kinda blah. Of Guyton, Wilhite, Woods and Sanders , at least 2 are probably solid starters going forward, so the defense is definitely going to improve in 2009, even before considering a healthy number of picks in the draft and the possibility of a free agent splash, although probably nothing as "blockbuster" as grabbing Adalius Thomas...

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

In a blatent attempt to increase thread participation, I'll also introduce a second discussion topic, for those fascinated with the Dark Lord (Belichick).

Did you happen to notice the power group in the VIP box at the Gators game? Mr. and Mrs. Robert Kraft, the Dark Lord, and Milf #2 (or is that Milf #1?). I was unable to find a photo, but here's a shot of Bill and Milf #1 from the Celtics / Lakers final last year.

Milf #1

For those of you who don't know, Milf #1 is a former New York City housewife that Bill has financially supported (via shoeboxes of money) for sometime now, where-as Milf #2 is a clone of hers that I know little about other than that she's from Daytona (perhaps she "works" there?).

Discussion topic: As detailed in Education of a Coach and elsewhere, Mrs. Kraft is not a big BB fan. How do you suppose she was able tolerate catching last night's game with Bill and his local "friend"?

 

[biggyd]

Some thoughts off the top of my head regarding the young defensive players.

First of all, the ceiling for Guyton and Pierre Woods are backup linebackers and special teams. Guyton seems to get exposed in the passing game over the middle and Pierre is not the playmaker required at outside linebacker in the 3-4. The number of reps in the defense this year was related to the injuries sustained to the LBs.

The rookie dbs, Wilhite and Wheatley, looked good at times and lost on other occasions. I HOPE that another year of getting reps in the system will iron out the times they looked lost and will learn when the opportunities exist to take chances for ints like Law and Samuel. Next year is huge for their individual development.

Merriweather proves the importance of year two development. On the field, he seemed to have transitioned from thinking to reacting. A good player that will continue to get better. I think he may be part of the U Miami fraternity that wants to be the best in the NFL (Ray Lewis, Ed Reed) not the the part that thinks they are the best (Shockey, Winslow).

Crable is a question mark. I forget his injury and severity but it seemed that Patriots put him on IR very quickly. I am probably wrong but I would guess that he had trouble picking up the defense and learning his responsibilities. With my Patriot red glasses on, I think he has the potential to develop into an All-Pro caliber player like Terrell Suggs.

Or he could be a complete bust.

The big problem facing the Patriots this offseason, I think, will be contract / cap management. There are several key members of the offensive line (Mankins, Neal) and defensive line (Seymour, Wilfolk) whose contract is up at the conclusion of the 2009 season.

Also, finding a new offensive coordinator may be added to the list.

 

[biggyd]

MILF #2

http://bostonherald.com/sports/football/ot...p;position=also

 

[David Yudkin]

With all the Brady speculation from the past week or two, I surveyed some of the folks I know and I have been told be prepared for a BARRAGE of reports running the full gambit on Brady. The reports coming out in the next few weeks/months will vary from he's on, behind, ahead of schedule, his abilities will be the same/worse than before the surgery, Brady is eager/uneager/willing/unwilling to get back on the field, etc.

It appears that many people in the media, in the medical community, and involved with Brady and the Pats all are working with different opinions and different information, so this one is going to get crazy in terms of is he or isn't he, will he or won't he, etc.

 

[biggyd]

David,

Should I be concerned with the impending contract issues with mankins, Neal, Seymour and Wilfork? I would hate to see another Samuel situation develop, where the longer they wait the higher the price.

 

[David Yudkin]

David,Should I be concerned with the impending contract issues with mankins, Neal, Seymour and Wilfork? I would hate to see another Samuel situation develop, where the longer they wait the higher the price.

Yes, you should be concerned.If all those guys want top dollar I'm not sure the Pats will be able and willing to accomodate them.Here's a list of whose contracts are up soon:2009:SeymourWilforkMankinsGreenHobbsNealKaczurVrabelWatsonFaulkBruschiGostkowski2010:BradyMossLightMaroneyMorrisAnd of course, Cassel needs to be considered as the first domino to fall in whatever they do going forward.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

looking at Yuds FA list.

End of the dynasty?

 

[PatsWillWin]

I hope they don't overpay for Seymour. They need to keep Wilfork though.

 

[David Yudkin]

looking at Yuds FA list.End of the dynasty?

I think a lot depends who leaves staff/management wise and who they replace them with. Pioli would be a hit (rumored to be going to KC) and McDaniels will most likely leave as well. Losing Pioli would hurt more than McDaniels IMO.Looking forward over the next couple of years, I think there will be some new blood for the Pats. While Harrison wants to play and come back (he's been trying to stay in shape for a come back), guys like him, Bruschi (who already said he'll be back in 09), Vrabel, Faulk, Morris, etc. will be gone soon. The Pats have done pretty well in picking up some free agents and making them work out (although that may have worked better in the past than more recently.)I will give the Pats the benefit of the doubt in terms of being able to come up with a plan that might work . . . they've been able to do it this long.I heard SPECULATION that the Lions might take Crabtree 1st overall and then try to trade the #20 pick (from Dallas) for Cassel (but they might take heat for taking ANOTHER WR). Pats will most likely look to beef up the secondary. I like Meriweather and Sanders, but O'Neal was a bust and Hobbs is average (maybe slightly better when healthy).If they do trade Cassel for a first round pick, Brady comes back like the old Brady in a timely manner, and Brady works out an extension, all that would help define what the Pats can or cannot do.The other factor here is the CBA mess and the chance that there is no more salary cap. That could make for a real ugly labor situation. Typically these things have worked themselves in the 11th hour, but if there is a year with no salary cap I am not sure the NFLPA will be that eager to agree to one again once it's gone.

 

[biggyd]

With Dimtroff (SP?) gone, who do you think will replace Pioli if he is gone? My guess is that one person would not fill the role, but who would take over the majority of the responsibilities.

Also, what do you think about Dom Capers, were they happy with his contributions and will he be back?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

heard SPECULATION that the Lions might take Crabtree 1st overall and then try to trade the #20 pick (from Dallas) for Cassel (but they might take heat for taking ANOTHER WR). Pats will most likely look to beef up the secondary.

That is such a Lions like move it will probably happen

 

[David Yudkin]

Here's a list of all the guys that have their contracts expiring . . .

LB Eric Alexander

OL Wesley Britt

QB Matt Cassel

OLB Rosevelt Colvin

RB Heath Evans

WR Jabar Gaffney

P Chris Hanson

S Rodney Harrison

OL Russ Hochstein

LB Larry Izzo

RB LaMont Jordan

CB Deltha O'Neal

LS Lonie Paxton

S James Sanders

S/CB Lewis Sanders

LB Junior Seau

WR/S Ray Ventrone

LB/S Tank Williams

OLB Pierre Woods

DL Mike Wright

 

[David Yudkin]

With Dimtroff (SP?) gone, who do you think will replace Pioli if he is gone? My guess is that one person would not fill the role, but who would take over the majority of the responsibilities.Also, what do you think about Dom Capers, were they happy with his contributions and will he be back?

Word on the street is if Pioli leaves, current Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio would be the leading candidate to take his spot. And if Josh Daniels were to leave, receivers coach Bill O’Brien would at least get a look to take over as OC.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

looking at Yuds FA list.

End of the dynasty?

I think a lot depends who leaves staff/management wise and who they replace them with. Pioli would be a hit (rumored to be going to KC) and McDaniels will most likely leave as well. Losing Pioli would hurt more than McDaniels IMO.Looking forward over the next couple of years, I think there will be some new blood for the Pats. While Harrison wants to play and come back (he's been trying to stay in shape for a come back), guys like him, Bruschi (who already said he'll be back in 09), Vrabel, Faulk, Morris, etc. will be gone soon. The Pats have done pretty well in picking up some free agents and making them work out (although that may have worked better in the past than more recently.)

I will give the Pats the benefit of the doubt in terms of being able to come up with a plan that might work . . . they've been able to do it this long.

I heard SPECULATION that the Lions might take Crabtree 1st overall and then try to trade the #20 pick (from Dallas) for Cassel (but they might take heat for taking ANOTHER WR). Pats will most likely look to beef up the secondary. I like Meriweather and Sanders, but O'Neal was a bust and Hobbs is average (maybe slightly better when healthy).

If they do trade Cassel for a first round pick, Brady comes back like the old Brady in a timely manner, and Brady works out an extension, all that would help define what the Pats can or cannot do.

The other factor here is the CBA mess and the chance that there is no more salary cap. That could make for a real ugly labor situation. Typically these things have worked themselves in the 11th hour, but if there is a year with no salary cap I am not sure the NFLPA will be that eager to agree to one again once it's gone.

So...Wheatley and Wilhite will be the starting corners?

Crable starts next year?

Any prelim info on if Seymour and Wilfork are looking for a payday that NE won't provide?

 

[David Yudkin]

So...Wheatley and Wilhite will be the starting corners?Crable starts next year?Any prelim info on if Seymour and Wilfork are looking for a payday that NE won't provide?

I doubt Hobbs is out of the picture and there will probably be a notable rookie (again) or FA CB in the mix.As for Seymour, his salary negotiations have been contentious in the past and he actually milked NE for a $1 million bounty one year and made NE agree to hit months before it was even legal for them to do so.So I doubt Seymour will play nice in renegotiating and I doubt he would take much of a home town doscount. If it means forgoing a few hundred thousand dollars, then I think he'll stay. If he would leave millions on the table, I think he'd be gone.Can't speak to Wilfork, I haven't heard much about his demeanor or outlook on his pay.

 

[biggyd]

For whats it worth, I have heard/read that Wilfork loves playing for the Pats and living in the area. So, my guess is that he resigns with the Pats for good money but not top of the market money.

thanks for the replies DY. I enjoy reading your thoughts on the organization.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

For whats it worth, I have heard/read that Wilfork loves playing for the Pats and living in the area. So, my guess is that he resigns with the Pats for good money but not top of the market money.

thanks for the replies DY. I enjoy reading your thoughts on the organization.

As always, ditto. Thanks for your insights as well biggyd.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Didn't see such a thread yet, so here it is...Obvious IssuesCassel vs Brady, etc.Disposition of PioliKey player acquisitions / departuresDraft picks (1 per round except 2 second rounders)Rookie / New Player emergenceOther?I wasn't going to start this thread until I realized I could plagerize some good posting by Phlash in the "Best up and coming defenses" thread...thanks Plash!

Patriots defense is trimming out the old players. Last year was a transition and they still ranked #8 in points allowed, and #10 in yards allowed.They have a lot of young DB talent:LCB) Tyrone Wheatley was looking like a 5 year veteran before his injury last season. He should be a starter from day one.RCB) Jonathan Wilhite played great down the stretch - far above his draft position in the 4th round. He was making a lot of plays and had very sound instincts. Ideally he gets moved to nickel back and Ellis Hobbs, who is also very young, takes his spot as the RCB.FS) Brandon Meriweather is one of the best young safeties in the NFL.SS) James Sanders is young and solid, but while he is a decent starter he'd be a much better backup. This position should be upgraded in the offseason.They have a lot of young LB talent:WILB) DROY Jerod Mayo. Guy is a machine, and was already calling the defensive plays as a 22 year old rookie.SILB) Gary Guyton. He is an uber athlete (6'3" 250lbs, 4.4 forty yard time, incredible cone time) who is also very intelligent, and worked his way into a starting position midseason despite being an UDFA, before the injury to Bruschi, in fact. He also played some OLB and looks to be a steal.LOLB) Pierre Woods, who stepped in for Adalius after the injury, played very well. He is a huge guy (6'5" 250) and is a solid pass rusher. He's 27, which means he should be in his prime in the next few years.ROLB) Shawn Crable looked great in preseason before getting injured. He was the Patriots 3rd round pick last year and should push someone for a starting role this season.DLINE) Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren are all Pro-Bowl caliber players.

I'd light to hear everyone's thoughts on the young players Phlash mentions...It would appear to me that, at a minimum, Wheatley and Crable can be counted on as strong starting players in the future. Meriweather seems kinda blah. Of Guyton, Wilhite, Woods and Sanders , at least 2 are probably solid starters going forward, so the defense is definitely going to improve in 2009, even before considering a healthy number of picks in the draft and the possibility of a free agent splash, although probably nothing as "blockbuster" as grabbing Adalius Thomas...

Some thoughts off the "tip" of my head:IMHO, Wheatley looks like a player, unfortunately his wrists make him a high injury risk and I don't think they can count on him.Wilhite shows promise, but is anyone really sold on him yet.Merriweather looks pretty good to me and IMO he should at least be good if not very good going forward.James Sanders took a step back this year IMO and I don't think he is the answer.Mayo looks pretty good, however, I'm not doing cart wheels over him as some are; lets see him play another year before we send him to Canton.Guyton showed some promise, but way to early to tell.Pierre Woods looks like a decent player, but probably more a backup than a starter.Shawn Crable is a complete unknown, could be pretty good, could as likely (if not more) be a bust.Brusci (love the guy) is done.Vrabel (love the guy) is almost done.D-line is young and solid, but who are they going to keep and who will they lose?As most know, I am as big a Pats optimist as they come; this defense is not in that bad a shape, I am just trying to be realistic. NE is not way over the hill like so many shallow no nothings like to repeat ad naseum; however they must find competent replacements for Brusci, Vrabel and Harrison. If they can do that, their defense will be in really good shape (easier said than done).They will franchise Cassel and assuming Brady looks to be ok (being the optimist, I certainly feel that way) they will look to trade Cassel and IMO will likely get a first and a 3rd-4th for him.

 

[Boston]

Random thoughts:

*The Patriots biggest weakness is their pass rush. While their secondary is an obvious weakness it doesn't matter who they have back there if they can't get to the QB. A good pass rush will cover up some issues in the defensive backfield.

*Sorry, but I'm not seeing what others did in Wheatley. I really didn't see much in him good or bad. He's still an unknown quantity to me.

*Mayo is an absolute stud. Performing like he did as a rookie in a complicated 3-4 defense is very impressive.

*I think it's time to move Vrabel inside. The Pats need more athleticism on the outside and Vrabel would give the Patriot D more versatility on the inside. An inside LB corps of Mayo, Vrabel, Guyton and one other addition would be solid.

*The Pats have to sign Wilfork long term. The key to the 3-4 is the NT and he's a big time player that's in his prime.

*I don't think Seymour's stay in Foxboro will go on much longer. While he played much better this year than the last two he has played nowhere near the level of his current contract and I don't see the Pats giving him big money again.

*The offense needs another playmaker. Whether it's a WR to go with Welker and Moss (Gaffney regressed this year) or a big play back to go with Faulk and Morris (I have no faith in Maroney) the Pats could use another player that defenses have to worry about. Rigt now the O is too reliant on Moss and Welker. Add in another skill player that's a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball and it will give even more open space for Moss and Welker which would be deadly.

*TE is a pretty mediocre situation. Watson is what he is at this point and that's pretty average. Thomas was a guy I had high expectations for but he really underwhelmed this year.

*I don't like Sanders and Merriweather together. They need an upgrade here. Sanders is solid but he has his limitations. Merriwether was much improved but he will have to continue to improve (and he should) if's he's to become the defensive anchor the Pats thought they were getting when they passed on Beason and drafted him in the first round. I'd like to see another safety added to the mix that's better than Sanders.

*Pierre Woods is a very good special teams players who's a solid backup...but I don't ever see him being a starter in the NFL.

*In baseball terms I consider Crable a prospect. He looked real comfortable in pre-season and I was dissapointed the Pats didn't dress him early. With all the injuries the Pats had this year it would have been nice to see if he was a keeper but unfortunately his own injury prevented that from happening.

*There was a time when the Pats hit big on low-money/under-the-radar type of guys but their track record lately has not been that good. Following in the footsteps of Monty Beisel, Chad Brown and Duane Starks players like Fernando Bryant, Deltha O"Neal, Jason Webster, Victor Hobson and Marcus Pollard did squat. I have no problem bringing in these type of guys as long as you're not counting on them as anything more than depth. Unfortunately that wasn't the situation at CB this year and the Pats got burnt real bad.

*This year's draft will go along ways towards whether the Pats can remain a championship level team in the near future. Assuming Brady is back the Pats will get a nice return on Cassel to go with San Diego's #2 and a high comp pick for Samuel putting them in a position to add a lot of youth (or make a deal or two for a veteran). After missing badly in the draft two years ago it's very important the Pats bring in a nice haul of youngsters this year. It would also give them more flexibility when deciding who to keep and let go with their upcoming 2009 free agent situation.

 

[Spike]

In a blatent attempt to increase thread participation, I'll also introduce a second discussion topic, for those fascinated with the Dark Lord (Belichick).

Did you happen to notice the power group in the VIP box at the Gators game? Mr. and Mrs. Robert Kraft, the Dark Lord, and Milf #2 (or is that Milf #1?). I was unable to find a photo, but here's a shot of Bill and Milf #1 from the Celtics / Lakers final last year.

Milf #1

For those of you who don't know, Milf #1 is a former New York City housewife that Bill has financially supported (via shoeboxes of money) for sometime now, where-as Milf #2 is a clone of hers that I know little about other than that she's from Daytona (perhaps she "works" there?).

Discussion topic: As detailed in Education of a Coach and elsewhere, Mrs. Kraft is not a big BB fan. How do you suppose she was able tolerate catching last night's game with Bill and his local "friend"?

Is there really a place here for this?

I'm not saying this as a Pats fan but as an FBGs fan. This type of post just should not be acceptable, imo.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Will we see yet another near-washed-up tight end free agent acquisition? i.e. Pollard, Kyle Brady, etc.

Or how about Cleveland cleans house and sends KW2 to New England, whose locker rooms are staff infection free?

I suppose TE and RB are the most likely spots for free agency activity...

 

[Boston]

Will we see yet another near-washed-up tight end free agent acquisition? i.e. Pollard, Kyle Brady, etc.Or how about Cleveland cleans house and sends KW2 to New England, whose locker rooms are staff infection free?I suppose TE and RB are the most likely spots for free agency activity...

I'd add in CB as well. They need a quality veteran to solidify that unit and give the kids a little more of a learning curve.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Will we see yet another near-washed-up tight end free agent acquisition? i.e. Pollard, Kyle Brady, etc.Or how about Cleveland cleans house and sends KW2 to New England, whose locker rooms are staff infection free?I suppose TE and RB are the most likely spots for free agency activity...

I'd add in CB as well. They need a quality veteran to solidify that unit and give the kids a little more of a learning curve.

Asante is playing better for the Iggles than I thought he would. O'Neal looked OK for about 2 games, then we found out why he was obtainable.Not sure if BB will be interested in CB given Hobbs plus the 2 rooks plus 09 draftees, given his disdain for paying playmakers in the secondary / preference to concentrate dollars on the front 7.

 

[Boston]

Will we see yet another near-washed-up tight end free agent acquisition? i.e. Pollard, Kyle Brady, etc.Or how about Cleveland cleans house and sends KW2 to New England, whose locker rooms are staff infection free?I suppose TE and RB are the most likely spots for free agency activity...

I'd add in CB as well. They need a quality veteran to solidify that unit and give the kids a little more of a learning curve.

Asante is playing better for the Iggles than I thought he would. O'Neal looked OK for about 2 games, then we found out why he was obtainable.Not sure if BB will be interested in CB given Hobbs plus the 2 rooks plus 09 draftees, given his disdain for paying playmakers in the secondary / preference to concentrate dollars on the front 7.

I'd be absolutely shocked if they didn't add a quality veteran or two to the CB position. Hobbs is overmatched as a #1 and Wilhite and Wheatley are still question marks. That doesn't mean they'll be going after big names but getting some stability at that position is a must.

 

[biggyd]

What potential FA, signing would you like the Patriots sign this off season, excluding FA on their roster, (Cassel)?

My vote is Terrell Suggs. As an outside LB in the 3-4, he would be a monster.

 

[David Yudkin]

With Dimtroff (SP?) gone, who do you think will replace Pioli if he is gone? My guess is that one person would not fill the role, but who would take over the majority of the responsibilities.Also, what do you think about Dom Capers, were they happy with his contributions and will he be back?

Capers is going with McDaniels to Denver.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Let's go grocery shopping from the noteables among 2009 free agent market...(without consideration of age or price)

Linebackers

Channing Crowder, James Farrior, Ray Lewis, Willie McGinnest, Brady Popinga, Bart Scott

Defensive Backs

Nnamdi Asomugha, Atari Bigby, Mike Brown, Philip Buccanon, Brian Dawkins, Cortland Finnegan, Chris Gamble

I'll take Bart Scott and Cortland Finnegan, please...

 

[nerangers]

With Dimtroff (SP?) gone, who do you think will replace Pioli if he is gone? My guess is that one person would not fill the role, but who would take over the majority of the responsibilities.

Also, what do you think about Dom Capers, were they happy with his contributions and will he be back?

Capers is going with McDaniels to Denver.

I was reading that Nolan might be going to Denver, and that would leave Capers out of the picture.

Other published reports indicated that Patriots special assistant/secondary coach Dom Capers would join McDaniels' staff. It is not known if Nolan's reported hiring means that Capers won't be going to Denver. -- boston.com

I been wondering what the Patriots would have to offer to keep Pioli? What I keep seeing, it looks like he could be going to KC. I think in a year with a lot of big contracts to work out, you are going to need someone like Pioli to fill in the gaps!

Once thought to be the Chiefs' leading candidate, now there is no doubt: Scott Pioli is their man, according to an NFL source. Perhaps more important, Pioli's interest in the Chiefs and a potential new career challenge has grown. All that stands in the way is hashing out a contract agreement, or perhaps a late pitch from the Patriots (who lost offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels to the Broncos yesterday as head coach), or a last-minute change of heart from Pioli. All scenarios remained in play as of early last night, but as reported in yesterday's Globe, the intensity of talks between Pioli and the Chiefs has increased within the last 24-48 hours. Word out of Kansas City continues to be that the possibility of the sides coming together is picking up momentum. The key has been the comfort level between Pioli, Hunt, and team president Denny Thum. -- Boston Globe

Also there was mention that Pete Mangurian could be a possibility to replace McDaniels...

There's no immediate word on who will succeed Josh McDaniels with the Patriots. Tight ends coach Pete Mangurian is the only member of the current staff with pro offensive coordinator experience, serving in that capacity in 2003 with the Falcons. Wide receivers coach Bill O'Brien was offensive coordinator at Georgia Tech and Duke before joining the Pats in 2007. -- Boston Herald

 

[nerangers]

Guys,

Curiosity question...

After seeing the secondary this season, and how Asante did for the Eagles, do you think the Pats should have paid him to stay?

There are some good CBs hitting the market this off-season, but doubt they will be at bargain basement pricing!

 

[biggyd]

No, I don't think the Patriots should have paid Asante at the conclusion of the 2007 season.

It was too high of a price. In hind sight, they should have given him a new contract at the conclusion of the 2005 or 2006 season. It would have been far cheaper than his contract with the eagles. Since he was a low draft pick, his rookie contract did not pay him as starting a CB and the Patriots should have locked him up.

I think the majority of his interceptions occured when the qb is under pressure and makes a poor throw on an in/out cut. The security net behind him, in the form of a cover 2 defense, allows him to take a risk and jump either route. His ability to watch the QB and read his eyes are his greatest attribute, similar to Ty Law.

My guess is that the Patriots feel this skill is not rare and it can be developed in other corner backs. As a result, there is no need to spend top dollar for the position.

 

[nerangers]

Add Capers to the list now...

Scott Pioli

Josh McDaniels

Brad Seely

Packers | Team reaches deal with Capers

Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:42:04 -0800

Tom Silverstein, of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, reports the Green Bay Packers have reached an agreement on a deal with New England Patriots special assistant Dom Capers to become the team's next defensive coordinator. Terms of the agreement were not known.

Also caught this on boston.com...revolving draft picks!

With the Ravens losing to the Steelers in the AFC championship game, they will revert to their original draft position, 26th overall. The Ravens are part of a four-team cluster with 11-5 records which includes the Patriots (23rd), Falcons (24th) and Dolphins (25th). Those four teams will rotate in each round of the draft. From a Patriots perspective, the team will pick 23rd in the first round, then will be in the 26th spot in the second round, and in the 25th spot in the third round and so forth.

 

[nerangers]

The Patriots seem to be losing a lot of the coaching staff this season...five if you include Pioli!

TE coach Pete Mangurian won't return to Patriots:

Pete Mangurian, who served as Patriots tight end coach the last four years, will not return to the team in 2009. Mangurian has been in discussions with the Buccaneers about being part of new coach Raheem Morris’ staff in Tampa Bay. Mangurian’s departure is the fourth among Patriots assistants this offseason, as offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach Josh McDaniels (Broncos head coach), special assistant/secondary coach Dom Capers (Packers defensive coordinator) and special teams coach Brad Seely (Browns assistant head coach/special teams coordinator) have moved on.

It will be interesting to see if Coach Belichick brings in anyone from the outside. We all know he likes to promote from within.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm thinking of shooting an application over.

 

[nerangers]

I am pretty sure everyone here knew the Patriots would Franchise Tag Matt Cassel, but now what?

Is Cassel just a 14.65 Million dollar insurance policy for Brady?

Do the Patriots Trade Casell? I was reading an article on 8 Possible Trading Teams for Matt Cassel (check it out)

If Cassel is not traded by the end of the draft does that mean Brady is not as healthy as the Patriot Nation would like?

Let all the speculation begin!!!

Patriots franchise Cassel

The New England Patriots announced Friday that they have utilized their 2009 franchise designation on quarterback Matt Cassel.

The cost of the franchise tag (the average of the top five highest-paid players at a given position) on Cassel is a one-year tender for $14.65 million, according to the transition and franchise tag numbers released Jan. 30 by the NFL Players Association. Since the franchise tenders are guaranteed, Cassel would count more against the cap than Brady, who is scheduled to carry a cap charge of $14.62 million for 2009.

The 26-year-old Cassel, who made 15 starts after Brady's injury, completed 63.4 percent of his passes and threw for 3,693 yards and 21 touchdowns with 11 interceptions. -- Boston Globe

Link to additional Matt Cassel Discussions

 

[David Yudkin]

To answer the question as to now what, I do not think that we would be able to draw any conclusions even if nothing happened by draft day. In all these Cassel threads, people keep debating what picks the Pats will be getting, but I still think the Pats are more interested in getting an established starter than a high pick.

I would classify the Pats as reaching the point where they are in a "win now" mode. They have several key guys in their 30s, they will have a rash of vital players potentially hitting the market as free agents or in need of major contract extensions, and I'm not sure how much longer Belichick is going to want to coach.

That being said, I don't see NE looking to get a Top 10 pick, as they normally prefer not to pay a fortune for completely unproven NFL commodities. They already have too many guys that need new deals, and shelling out megabucks for a rookie doesn't fit their profile.

The Pats obviously have a plan, and to me there are really only three options:

1) IF BRADY IS HEALTHY

If the Pats feel Brady is well on his way to recovery, it would not surprise me if NE already has some potential trade partners worked out and may even have options at this point (ie teams bidding against each other).

2) IF BRADY IS NOT HEALTHY

The Pats would just keep Cassel, ease Brady along slowly, and maybe Cassel and Brady each start 8 games or so.

3) TOO SOON TO TELL ON BRADY

Pats would keep Cassel as insurance until they can fit Brady into Slots 1 or 2. I would guess they would know the answer to this by training camp, and there's still bound to be a team that would want Cassel even come July or August. There would likely be fewer suitors and his trade value might dip, but not all the teams out there will have a bonafide starter even by then. There are lots of teams as possibilities (KC, DET, TB, MIN, NYJ, STL, SF, CAR, CHI, CIN if Palmer not good to go, maybe even TEN).

The Patriots are not a team that leaves much to chance, and several people have hoped that they get "stuck" with Cassel or they bomb on their draft picks that they get in return. The Patriots are going to do with Cassel what they want to do with Cassel, it's not like they will be in a situation where they are not going to get the outcome that they want and have two $15 million a year players fully healthy just lounging around. They will either keep Cassel because they want to or they will trade him because they want to. I really don't see the entire league collaborating to "stick it" to NE.

 

[nerangers]

David, I believe like you do that this is not about Draft Picks...having a high draft pick does not fit the Patriots model with regards to the salary cap.

If they are looking for players, what teams do you feel might have a player of interest. I have seen where some feel RB Larry Johnson could be a consideration based on the Pioli connection. I really do not see it. The Patriots seem to have gone to more of a RBBC, and they can get that accomplished with the kind of RBs they have been getting. I know Jordan is a FA, but I think he can add just as much to the Patriots as Johnson at a much better price.

Who out there has a good Defensive Back player that needs a QB???

 

[nerangers]

list from Football Futures

2009 NFL Free Agent Defensive Backs

Nnamdi Asomugha, UFA, Oakland Raiders

Dawan Landry, RFA, Baltimore Ravens

Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Dunta Robinson, UFA, Houston Texans

Brian Dawkins, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles

Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears

Oshiomogho Atogwe, UFA, St Louis Rams

Tyron Brackenridge, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs

Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears

Phillip Buchanon, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Jabari Greer, UFA, Buffalo Bills

Rodney Harrison, UFA, New England Patriots

Kelvin Hayden, UFA, Indianapolis Colts

Renaldo Hill, UFA, Miami Dolphins

Daven Holly, UFA, Cleveland Browns

Sean Jones, UFA, Cleveland Browns

Bryant McFadden, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers

R.W. McQuarters, UFA, New York Giants

Justin Miller, UFA, New York Jets

Lawyer Milloy, UFA, Atlanta Falcons

Deltha O'Neal, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

Jarrad Page, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs

Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Bucs

Allen Rossum, UFA, San Francisco 49ers

Darren Sharper, UFA, Darren Sharper

The Patriots only have about 4 million in cap right now...

 

[Adebisi]

Tully Banta-Cain is back...

 

[ROCKET]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

As a Pats fan, I would salivate over a deal like this.Salivate.

 

[Adebisi]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

 

[Boston]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

I'm very skeptical that Seymour gets big money from the Pats again. He's got a lot of mileage on him and has not played up to his current contract. Wilfork on the otherhand is probably the biggest part of their D as a 3-4 really needs a big time NT is be truly effective. I find it hard to believe they don't resign him. Hopefully they learned their lesson from Samuel and realize the earlier you redo Wilfork the less it will cost you. The other guy who could get some big bucks is Mankins. He should be a fixture on the O line for years to come.As for Peppers he's very intriguing but giving a guy monster money (which I assume he'll demand) when he'd be switching positions and playing in a new defense seems pretty dicey. Yet, I don't picture the Pats making a move like this unless they were convinced he could handle it. In the end it's nice to think it's a possibility but it would really surprise me.

 

[munchkin]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

After listening to the IDP Roundtable talk I don't want Peppers anywhere near this team. We already have an under-achieving highly paid end in Seymour.

 

[Adebisi]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

After listening to the IDP Roundtable talk I don't want Peppers anywhere near this team. We already have an under-achieving highly paid end in Seymour.

Peppers would not be an end on the Pats, he'd be an OLB.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

After listening to the IDP Roundtable talk I don't want Peppers anywhere near this team. We already have an under-achieving highly paid end in Seymour.

Peppers would not be an end on the Pats, he'd be an OLB.

Don't see this happening at all. Peppers is obviously a great player, but with Mayo, Crable, Thomas, BantaCain etc, don't folks think NE would muddle along at LB without laying out major coin for a DE->OLB project?!?

 

[munchkin]

There are rumors about a Cassell for Peppers deal. I could see this possibly happening as Peppers has stated he wants out of Carolina and Carolina reportedly is way down on Jake D. And Brady said today he says he plans on being gtg for week 1. This is the first time he's really commented on his rehab.

I think this rumor started here in the Shark Pool in the thread about Peppers asking for a trade. There are numerous reasons that this is unlikely to happen, chief among them being that Seymour and Wilfork both need new contracts, and both would be more important to the defense than Peppers (particularly Wilfork; however, I could see them parting ways with Seymour).

After listening to the IDP Roundtable talk I don't want Peppers anywhere near this team. We already have an under-achieving highly paid end in Seymour.

Peppers would not be an end on the Pats, he'd be an OLB.

Don't see this happening at all. Peppers is obviously a great player, but with Mayo, Crable, Thomas, BantaCain etc, don't folks think NE would muddle along at LB without laying out major coin for a DE->OLB project?!?

Jr. Seau, Marvin Harrison, Tom Brady, Wes Welker and Bruschi are all or were great players; the problem with Peppers is he doesn't play with consistent effort. He may have great skills but he doesn't use them often enough to make him worth the investment. If he was a real stud the Panthers wouldn't let him get away.

 

[David Yudkin]

Fred Taylor coming to visit the Pats this week.