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***Official***President Donald Trump (1 Viewer)

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Henry Ford said:
The other article actually links to an article called "Dumb Hicks Are America's Greatest Threat."  It is pretty much the most smug thing ever written about the flyover states.

You can say this isn't a reflection on "working class" people, but when you're referring to entire areas that have a lot of working class people in them ("First of all, Roanoke is a real #### hole, and so is Jacksonville. No refugees want to go there anyhow. Don’t flatter yourselves.") you're insulting the working class.  Also, we (liberals) regularly talk about how the Republicans talk in code.  ("Immigrants" doesn't mean all immigrants. It means brown people; "urban decay" doesn't mean all people living in cities.  It means black people.")  Is this any less talking in code?

And I agree.  We should not dismiss people.  Especially people who are underserved by our government and its policies.
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Hamilton Nolan is a tool, but I'm not sure badmouthing high level local politicians from Virginia  and Florida in addition to one from Missouri amounts to contempt for working class whites from flyover states.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Hamilton Nolan is a tool, but I'm not sure badmouthing high level local politicians from Virginia  and Florida in addition to one from Missouri amounts to contempt for working class whites from flyover states.
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It is wrong to think that our political leaders should be smarter than us. In fact, they are roughly as smart as the people who elect them—us, a nation that boasts large and coherent pockets of ####### hicks, running things.
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TobiasFunke said:
"Voted down Trump because they felt neglected" is not the same as "neglected."  And neglect is not remotely close to having an attitude that they are "deplorable.," which is what you said.

If you'd said that elite dems neglected the working man I might disagree, but I wouldn't have found it to be a preposterous statement.  But suggesting they have contempt for working people?  That's absurd. Dems (including Clinton) have been on the side of the unions and fighting for increased wages, workplace safety, and other policies intended to help lower middle class and middle class workers for years.  
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Would you agree that if the Democratic intended to help lower middle class and middle class workers were successful, that the election would have had a different result?

 
If the best (only?) example so far of this trend of coastal elites belittling white working class voters from flyover states is one guy whose whole shtick is to be obnoxious and elitist talking #### about "dumb hicks" without reference to their race, location or employment status, I'm not sure it's really a trend.

 
Henry Ford said:
Can we at least agree that the general feeling of higher-income Democrats is that poor white people who have contributed to Trump's rise are to some extent "rising up" against the loss of their "white privilege"?  And that there shouldn't be any sympathy for the loss of that privilege?
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I never bought the "white privilege" bs.  My privilege came from working my ### off. Privilege is the wrong word. Benefit might be better.

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Voted down Trump because they felt neglected" is not the same as "neglected."  And neglect is not remotely close to having an attitude that they are "deplorable.," which is what you said.

If you'd said that elite dems neglected the working man I might disagree, but I wouldn't have found it to be a preposterous statement.  But suggesting they have contempt for working people?  That's absurd. Dems (including Clinton) have been on the side of the unions and fighting for increased wages, workplace safety, and other policies intended to help lower middle class and middle class workers for years.  
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the word deplorable came from the mouth of your parties leading presidential hopeful 

combine that with the neglect of the rust belt and this is what happens.....not sure what you are arguing about...but then again nobody ever is 

maybe the fact that you wont admit or really just dont see it , is the reason things went so badly for the dems.... sure its not isolated to just the elite 

 
BustedKnuckles said:
the word deplorable came from the mouth of your parties leading presidential hopeful 

combine that with the neglect of the rust belt and this is what happens.....not sure what you are arguing about...but then again nobody ever is 

maybe the fact that you wont admit or really just dont see it , is the reason things went so badly for the dems.... sure its not isolated to just the elite 
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The entire conversation started because you said the"deplorable" attitude was NOT limited to Clinton (who didn't say it about white working class voters anyway, she said it about racists and xenophobia and whatnot), but was the attitude of "dem elites" towards white working class people.  I repeatedly asked for examples.  You repeatedly failed to give me any.  I think this conversation is over.

 
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Henry Ford said:
1. Your link, like Republican fiscal policy, doesn't work;

2. Those are all things that happen abroad.  You understand that, right?
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Oh I'm sorry I was under the impression that you cared about all peoples rights. I didn't realize caring about rights abroad was insignificant. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
So there's one answer. Newt thinks plenty of voters will be ok with this because the donald is "special." Special apparently = "rich." 

Are you Trumpkins really going to be good with him running his businesses at the same time he's making policy for the benefit of the nation?
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I don't think he would have time to run any business while President, nor are they the kind of businesses that can be put into some kind of a blind trust. His kids will run the businesses and they will probably consult with Daddy from time to time. It is a unique situation so far in our history.

 
TobiasFunke said:
The entire conversation started because you said the"deplorable" attitude was NOT limited to Clinton (who didn't say it about white working class voters anyway, she said it about racists and xenophobia and whatnot), but was the attitude of "dem elites" towards white working class people.  I repeatedly asked for examples.  You repeatedly failed to give me any.  I think this conversation is over.
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thats for sure lol

 
I dont agree, but it is true that all these conflicts of interest were known prior to the election and the people just didnt care. Maybe the media and clinton campaign should have focused more attention on it than ##### grabbing. 

 
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TobiasFunke said:
If the best (only?) example so far of this trend of coastal elites belittling white working class voters from flyover states is one guy whose whole shtick is to be obnoxious and elitist talking #### about "dumb hicks" without reference to their race, location or employment status, I'm not sure it's really a trend.
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It's not the only or the best, you said there were no examples in the articles posted.  If you truly don't understand why some people think that Democrats (especially middle- and upper-class or urban Democrats) are "smug" about rural working class people, I don't think you're paying attention.  And you should.

 
Henry Ford said:
It's not the only or the best, you said there were no examples in the articles posted.  If you truly don't understand why some people think that Democrats (especially middle- and upper-class or urban Democrats) are "smug" about rural working class people, I don't think you're paying attention.  And you should.
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But they won't. It's too bad really. I'm beginning to think we ought to let the Northeast form their own country.

 
bueno said:
I don't think he would have time to run any business while President, nor are they the kind of businesses that can be put into some kind of a blind trust. His kids will run the businesses and they will probably consult with Daddy from time to time. It is a unique situation so far in our history.
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Maybe we should have thought this through before the election.

edit: Your post is a pretty casual dismissal of one of the most important principles of public service at the very top. Unique financial situation or not, he's gotta divest. We can't really consider him legit until he's made the sacrifice in the public interest.

 
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bueno said:
I don't think he would have time to run any business while President, nor are they the kind of businesses that can be put into some kind of a blind trust. His kids will run the businesses and they will probably consult with Daddy from time to time. It is a unique situation so far in our history.
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He could sell then...he just chooses not to.  Not that anyone on the right seems to care, but he knew this when he decided to run.  It's on him to correct the problem, but like much of his campaign, he just blames those who care about it for caring about it.  He's turning into quite the martyr.

 
I would say that it's not that white people in our society receive extra benefits, it's that many nonwhite people in our society endure added burdens. 

 
bueno said:
I don't think he would have time to run any business while President, nor are they the kind of businesses that can be put into some kind of a blind trust. His kids will run the businesses and they will probably consult with Daddy from time to time. It is a unique situation so far in our history.
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Yeah, its only everything about the Clinton Foundation that the right railed daily against only times a million.  Its not gonna work.

 
Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
But would you agree that for some people "earning" things is much easier?
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all i know is im  52 yo white male living in the suburbs of Boston and i have to get up for work at a fire extinguisher company  every single day or i wont make enough money to make it...not sure if thats considered easy or not...i do know its draining year after year but what choice does one have ...nobody rides for free ..well they shouldn't at least 

 
Henry Ford said:
It's not the only or the best, you said there were no examples in the articles posted.  If you truly don't understand why some people think that Democrats (especially middle- and upper-class or urban Democrats) are "smug" about rural working class people, I don't think you're paying attention.  And you should.
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I'm trying to.  So far it's not going great.

Look, I'm sure there's some smugness and dismissiveness from some "coastal elites" towards rural working class people.  Just as there's some of that in the other direction.  And some from the east coast toward the west coast, and vice versa.  

The one big thing different here is that a sleazy POS snake oil salesman (who BTW is about as coastal elite as you can get) combined the resentment of coastal elites from rural whites with various other frustrations and sources of anger (some legitimate, some ugly) and leveraged it for his own personal advantage.  And if it wasn't for Putin and James Comey and campaign strategy errors I don't think we'd be talking about this right now.

We should all treat each with more respect, regardless of race, religion, class, job status or location. That goes in every direction and across all lines.  

 
BustedKnuckles said:
all i know is im  52 yo white male living in the suburbs of Boston and i have to get up for work at a fire extinguisher company  every single day or i wont make enough money to make it...not sure if thats considered easy or not...i do know its draining year after year but what choice does one have ...nobody rides for free ..well they shouldn't at least 
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Way to dodge the question.

 
bueno said:
I don't think he would have time to run any business while President, nor are they the kind of businesses that can be put into some kind of a blind trust. His kids will run the businesses and they will probably consult with Daddy from time to time. It is a unique situation so far in our history.
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The issue isn't him running his businesses or not. It's that his businesses are a direct conduit for foreign and domestic individuals and entities to provide financial gain/incentive to Trump while he's in office.   

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'm trying to.  So far it's not going great.

Look, I'm sure there's some smugness and dismissiveness from some "coastal elites" towards rural working class people.  Just as there's some of that in the other direction.  And some from the east coast toward the west coast, and vice versa.  

The one big thing different here is that a sleazy POS snake oil salesman (who BTW is about as coastal elite as you can get) combined the resentment of coastal elites from rural whites with various other frustrations and sources of anger (some legitimate, some ugly) and leveraged it for his own personal advantage.  And if it wasn't for Putin and James Comey and campaign strategy errors I don't think we'd be talking about this right now.

We should all treat each with more respect, regardless of race, religion, class, job status or location. That goes in every direction and across all lines.  
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I agree with all of this.  But we should be talking about it anyway.  It's important.  

I guess I just don't even understand how one could look at the current state of things and not think that urban Americans laugh at rural Americans.  White, black, brown, whatever.

Taran Killam from SNL tweeted on Nov. 8 "rural = so stupid" and it became a big story.

Huffington Post has an article titled "Are Rural People Meaner?"

"In These Times" - which is definitely not a right wing publication - published a solid article about the intersection of rural poverty and perceived whiteness of rural America, and why liberals don't address it. http://inthesetimes.com/rural-america/entry/18526/why-the-left-isnt-talking-about-rural-american-poverty

This isn't new, but it's bigger than it was and gets bigger all the time. And there's no need for it.  What's good for the country's coastal cities is usually also good for middle America and vice-versa.  And there's nothing stupid about not wanting to live in a big city.  So this is all stuff we can work out, but we have to actually address it.

 
timschochet said:
Michelle Obama supports Donald Trump: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/12/20/politics/michelle-obama-oprah-trump-transition/index.html?client=safari

She notes that many people were against her husband from the moment he got elected and refused to ever give him a chance. She prefers to "go high" and to give Trump every chance to succeed, and only oppose him when she disagrees with him.  :thumbup:
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This is how it should be, but I have to question her saying this was not extended to them when taking office.  As critical as I was of Bush I thought he handled the transition very well.

 
bueno said:
But they won't. It's too bad really. I'm beginning to think we ought to let the Northeast form their own country.
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If we're all honest I think we'd agree there's been at least 10x more of THIS crap in this thread than any sort of smug dismissiveness in the other direction. 

My urban Northeast "elite" (not really but I'm sure I'm thought of that way) rear end is in here all the time engaging on the issues with anyone willing to do so fairly and reasonably.  I never ever dismiss peoples opinions based on race, religion, economic status, education level or geographic location (other than the occasional Florida joke  :D ).  And yet there's a ton of posts here just like Bueno's almost every day. 

I know it's just one little corner of the internet, but it kinda seems like the exact opposite of this supposed widespread trend 

 
Henry Ford said:
This isn't new, but it's bigger than it was and gets bigger all the time. And there's no need for it.  What's good for the country's coastal cities is usually also good for middle America and vice-versa.  And there's nothing stupid about not wanting to live in a big city.  So this is all stuff we can work out, but we have to actually address it.
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:goodposting:

All of it, but this in particular. 

 
Trump has named Mick Mulvaney to head the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) which helps him craft the nation's annual budget for Congressional approval. 

Mulvaney, a House member from South Carolina, is the same Tea Party guy who argued a few years back that it would be perfectly OK for us not to raise the debt ceiling and go into default. 

 
Joe Summer said:
I don't think there were a large number of Obama voters who voted for Trump. Obama got 89% of Democrats in 2008; Hillary got 89% of Democrats in 2016.

Obama got 69.5 million votes eight years ago, whereas Hillary got 65.8 million votes in 2016. Where did those voters go? We know they didn't vote for Trump, since Trump's vote count is on par with what McCain and Romney got (when adjusted for the population increase).

I agree that Hillary lost a large number of Obama voters, but those voters didn't vote for Trump. They stayed home.
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Based on this then the key factor for Trump winning is apathy, not anger.

 
Dickies said:
This is how it should be, but I have to question her saying this was not extended to them when taking office.  As critical as I was of Bush I thought he handled the transition very well.
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She wasn't referring to Bush; in fact if you read the interview she speaks very highly of Laura Bush. I think she's referring to many conservatives in general. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
If we're all honest I think we'd agree there's been at least 10x more of THIS crap in this thread than any sort of smug dismissiveness in the other direction. 

My urban Northeast "elite" (not really but I'm sure I'm thought of that way) rear end is in here all the time engaging on the issues with anyone willing to do so fairly and reasonably.  I never ever dismiss peoples opinions based on race, religion, economic status, education level or geographic location (other than the occasional Florida joke  :D ).  And yet there's a ton of posts here just like Bueno's almost every day. 

I know it's just one little corner of the internet, but it kinda seems like the exact opposite of this supposed widespread trend 
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Who cares?  Let them.  Let them be smug.  It isn't winning them any votes, and as Boston Rob once noted in Survivor, there are only three things that matter here: votes, votes, votes.

There is no question that evangelicals and hard-core conservatives are smug toward "liberals."  But we are absolutely capable of being secure enough in our mindsets and goals to not have to care about that.  As liberals like to argue "history is on our side."  So let people be smug.  The quintessential smug right-winger was George Wallace. "Segregation now, segregation forever!"  How's he remembered these days?

The key is an open tent.  Not smug dismissiveness or refusal to discuss or compromise.  In fact, perceived or real, that is the primary thing that has cost the Democrats since Obama's election.  Smugness.  I'm a big fan of President Obama, but there's no getting around the fact that he was terrible at putting out sound bites that could be easily spun as him being smug and dismissive.  That's the vote difference between his first and second terms.  Yes, right wingers are also smug and dismissive.  It's what cost the right wing a large number of elections.  Let them be.  If the left can stop taking a cue from them on that subject, and let them continue, it's better for all of us.

 
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Henry Ford said:
Who cares?  Let them.  Let them be smug.  It isn't winning them any votes, and as Boston Rob once noted in Survivor, there are only three things that matter here: votes, votes, votes.

There is no question that evangelicals and hard-core conservatives are smug toward "liberals."  But we are absolutely capable of being secure enough in our mindsets and goals to not have to care about that.  As liberals like to argue "history is on our side."  So let people be smug.  The quintessential smug right-winger was George Wallace. "John Marshall has made his decision.  Let's see him enforce it!"  How's he remembered these days?

The key is an open tent.  Not smug dismissiveness or refusal to discuss or compromise.  In fact, perceived or real, that is the primary thing that has cost the Democrats since Obama's election.  Smugness.  I'm a big fan of President Obama, but there's no getting around the fact that he was terrible at putting out sound bites that could be easily spun as him being smug and dismissive.  That's the vote difference between his first and second terms.  Yes, right wingers are also smug and dismissive.  It's what cost the right wing a large number of elections.  Let them be.  If the left can stop taking a cue from them on that subject, and let them continue, it's better for all of us.
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Andrew Jackson.

 
timschochet said:
Trump has named Mick Mulvaney to head the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) which helps him craft the nation's annual budget for Congressional approval. 

Mulvaney, a House member from South Carolina, is the same Tea Party guy who argued a few years back that it would be perfectly OK for us not to raise the debt ceiling and go into default. 
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His way of saying "Let's spend within our budget".

 
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