OFFICIAL Pro Day Discussion (1 Viewer)

[massraider]

The Oregonian reports on Dixon's workout]

For the most part, Dixon appeared sharp and capable as he threw more than 50 passes to former Ducks teammates Cameron Colvin and James Finley. It was by no means a textbook display of pinpoint passing. But Dixon showed that he has enough arm strength and accuracy to make NFL throws, though he did make several errant tosses he clearly would have liked to have back.

While the rest of the article is full of puff and praise, this is not what you expect or need from a private choreographed workout. He'll get drafted, but probably not early enough for a team to have a lot invested.

I wonder what a team does with a guy like this. NFL Europe would have been perfect for this guy. I mean, you can give him a year or two on the PS, but he'll have to develop a lot on his own.

Since he's one of my favorite players in the draft, I'll go on a little. What I saw last year didn't match his play from the previous two years. It was one of the more remarkable transformations I've seen in a college QB who I had watched since the start. Others around here point out that he really only had one good season and even it was cut short. Prior to that he really struggled often in QBBC with Brady Leaf, and often just trying to figure out the position. At times he flashed the talent we saw last year, but rarely. Then as the story goes, he was drafted by the Atlanta Braves (iirc). He played Minor League ball last summer as soon as school was over. It was, according to a midseason anecdote I read, the transforming experience. He had to grow up. He saw the working world. He understood he was going to be on his own and had a great opportunity. He got very serious about football, which scouts from both sports understood to be his best chance.

So he showed up on campus a changed man, or as I read it, the boy became a man. He was stronger, he worked out harder, he paid closer attention to coaches, and he came out and flat lit it up. Early in the season, there was no better QB in the country. He played like a legit Heisman winning franchise QB, and he was doing it with his arm, not his legs. Then he hit some rough spots, maybe regressed a little, but he lost his top WRs, and no QB is always great. Before the injury he was in games that forced him to rely on his legs more, but at his worst last year, he still looked like a first day pick to me. If Whitehurst, Croyle and TJackson are first day picks , the Dixon at his worst should be.

Then the injury and we might be looking at a round 5-7 guy. I'd be stoked if Dallas took a shot at him. I still think he is a first day talent with a possible franchise QB in hiding, but that would probably take a Garrard-like progression over a few years. Seems like a good guy to root for.

Great post. Stuff I did not know. I'll definitely be rooting for him, I like these athletic QBs, makes the game more exciting. It'll certainly matter which team he winds up on.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Here is an article by Pauline stating his impression of Baker & Rachal's performance. He goes on to say about Baker "Scouts came away thinking he has little opportunity to play tackle in the NFL."

Seems pretty harsh regarding Baker. This is the only report I've seen that rips him hard. Pauline makes it sound as if it was a consensus that Baker & Rachal stunk up the joint, but you and others seem to say the contrary.

Well a year ago a few mockers around here were projecting Baker to come out early and go very high in the first round. I explained his play didn't match his rep and he needed to stay in school. I got some heat for my lower opinions, but not much, and he did the right thing by staying in school. Sam is a decent technician, and he dominates anyone he can with above average nastiness, but he lacks the athletic chops to hold up against better competition. He got a lot of help from TEs and RBs the last couple of years where Carroll just left Winston Justice on an island. Justice has had a rough road, and was a harder worker and better athlete. Baker is very suspect at LT, probably could start at RT with some seasoning, and I agree, he could have a decent career as a guard if he continues to improve and get stronger. Has it occurred to anyone that Carroll is constantly criticized for being a poor coach but a great recruiter only because of the school he represents. Therefore he's only winning so much because he has great players; but then, those players keep hitting the NFL and not looking as good as expected? The list of apparently overdrafted Trojans is getting impressive. Carroll is a great coach.

Dikta - Yeah I dunno what to say about that article - again, maybe he fell off at the end, I can't say, I was watching Ellis do a slap-drill (wow was Carroll not a fan of that one). The article does point out less than stellar 40 and 3 cone times and that's not innaccurate. I just don't know that Scouts were THAT down on him. Who knows what they were saying when they left though - if this guy talked to them and depending on who he talked to.Commish - great points all around. I think - and have said here and elsewhere - that I think he has the chops to be a pretty good O-lineman, but could use some work. I think all the guys who stayed in school were right to do so, Baker no less than others.

I think I like him more than you do, though, which is fine. He could fall just for the fact that there are some pretty good Oline prospects ahead of him who had very solid workouts.

Also an intriguing thought on Carroll. My one thought is - Mike Williams, Bush and Lienart (the big three whiffs, though Jarrett is behidn them only a little) all came into the league with what now appears to be a very 'me' attitude. Now I haven't interviewed them, and wasn't at the media circus that was Bush/Leinart's Pro Day (though it was still talked about by everyone at this Pro Day) but some of what I see and hear makes me wonder if they just assumed everythign would be handed to them and haven't put in as much focus and time as they should.

Williams sure hasn't. Leinart is more focused on chasing tail (so it appears). Jarrett needs to get his head together. Bush seems to be a hard worker, though he also is a very specific player and the roll was carved out for him by Payton.

YOu can't (well some might) call Bush or Leinart Busts yet - nor Jarrett - it's too early IMO. But you have to wonder about the attitude of some players coming out of USC.

What struck me on Wed was the humility and the talk of hard work and improvement that every player I talked to mentioned. Now maybe they are just well coached for interviews. But Ellis, Rivers, Booty and Baker - ALL of them talked about working to constantly improve their game. I mean Rivers had - by most accounts - a phenomenal Pro Day and he still thought he could have done better. If you listen to my interview with Ellis on The Audible, he talked about always wanting to be the best and improve himself and talked about how he could make his own mark and be the best he could be.

Now, maybe Bush and Leinart would have said the same. Maybe that's exactly the quote Williams would have given me. I can't say. But you have to wonder after the last few years - and the threat of NCAA sanctions due to Bush - Carroll is working hard to focus his talent and get them to prep in a useful way.

I don't know - Carroll is a great recruiter - and has a very good coaching staff. To some extent you do have to look at the players who have left and scratch your head.

 

[ditka85]

Here is an article by Pauline stating his impression of Baker & Rachal's performance. He goes on to say about Baker "Scouts came away thinking he has little opportunity to play tackle in the NFL."

Seems pretty harsh regarding Baker. This is the only report I've seen that rips him hard. Pauline makes it sound as if it was a consensus that Baker & Rachal stunk up the joint, but you and others seem to say the contrary.

Well a year ago a few mockers around here were projecting Baker to come out early and go very high in the first round. I explained his play didn't match his rep and he needed to stay in school. I got some heat for my lower opinions, but not much, and he did the right thing by staying in school. Sam is a decent technician, and he dominates anyone he can with above average nastiness, but he lacks the athletic chops to hold up against better competition. He got a lot of help from TEs and RBs the last couple of years where Carroll just left Winston Justice on an island. Justice has had a rough road, and was a harder worker and better athlete. Baker is very suspect at LT, probably could start at RT with some seasoning, and I agree, he could have a decent career as a guard if he continues to improve and get stronger. Has it occurred to anyone that Carroll is constantly criticized for being a poor coach but a great recruiter only because of the school he represents. Therefore he's only winning so much because he has great players; but then, those players keep hitting the NFL and not looking as good as expected? The list of apparently overdrafted Trojans is getting impressive. Carroll is a great coach.

Dikta - Yeah I dunno what to say about that article - again, maybe he fell off at the end, I can't say, I was watching Ellis do a slap-drill (wow was Carroll not a fan of that one). The article does point out less than stellar 40 and 3 cone times and that's not innaccurate. I just don't know that Scouts were THAT down on him. Who knows what they were saying when they left though - if this guy talked to them and depending on who he talked to.Commish - great points all around. I think - and have said here and elsewhere - that I think he has the chops to be a pretty good O-lineman, but could use some work. I think all the guys who stayed in school were right to do so, Baker no less than others.

I think I like him more than you do, though, which is fine. He could fall just for the fact that there are some pretty good Oline prospects ahead of him who had very solid workouts.

Also an intriguing thought on Carroll. My one thought is - Mike Williams, Bush and Lienart (the big three whiffs, though Jarrett is behidn them only a little) all came into the league with what now appears to be a very 'me' attitude. Now I haven't interviewed them, and wasn't at the media circus that was Bush/Leinart's Pro Day (though it was still talked about by everyone at this Pro Day) but some of what I see and hear makes me wonder if they just assumed everythign would be handed to them and haven't put in as much focus and time as they should.

Williams sure hasn't. Leinart is more focused on chasing tail (so it appears). Jarrett needs to get his head together. Bush seems to be a hard worker, though he also is a very specific player and the roll was carved out for him by Payton.

YOu can't (well some might) call Bush or Leinart Busts yet - nor Jarrett - it's too early IMO. But you have to wonder about the attitude of some players coming out of USC.

What struck me on Wed was the humility and the talk of hard work and improvement that every player I talked to mentioned. Now maybe they are just well coached for interviews. But Ellis, Rivers, Booty and Baker - ALL of them talked about working to constantly improve their game. I mean Rivers had - by most accounts - a phenomenal Pro Day and he still thought he could have done better. If you listen to my interview with Ellis on The Audible, he talked about always wanting to be the best and improve himself and talked about how he could make his own mark and be the best he could be.

Now, maybe Bush and Leinart would have said the same. Maybe that's exactly the quote Williams would have given me. I can't say. But you have to wonder after the last few years - and the threat of NCAA sanctions due to Bush - Carroll is working hard to focus his talent and get them to prep in a useful way.

I don't know - Carroll is a great recruiter - and has a very good coaching staff. To some extent you do have to look at the players who have left and scratch your head.

Thanx NoFB. Let me be clear that I'm not critical of you, just thought you may have an answer as to why this article was so down on Baker.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Thanx NoFB. Let me be clear that I'm not critical of you, just thought you may have an answer as to why this article was so down on Baker.

Oh no, I didn't think THAT at all. Don't sweat it - and anyway, folks are allowed to be critical of me - wouldn't be a writer if I couldn't take the heat. Sure wouldn't post what I do at Draftguys if I didn't want it debated and picked apart (although folks are more than welcome to tell me I am great, don't get me wrong )Yeah, I wish I knew where the article was coming from - and again, it could be that while the workout went well, someone saw something they didn't like.A local radio guy who isn't my favorite cat but isn't horrible put Pro Day in an interesting way - He said (and I have to paraphrase here cause it's two days later) 'I think sometimes we forget - we meaning analysts, radio guys and people just paying attention - that scouts look at Pro Day workouts different than we do. They come looking for flaws. They WANT to cross someone off their list. They've seen all the tape, they've read the reports, many times they have MET the guy already - they know what he can do. They are looking to shorten their list, and they do that by picking a good game apart.'I mean, Baker is one of those guys on the fringe in terms of where he might go. Could have been a 1st rounder at one point. Could be second. Maybe later. At this point, most teams are trying to figure out their preference when it comes to positions - and even a little crack in the armor could be enough to cross a player like Baker off.Not to say he's without flaws - but those flaws can be magnified if you are looking hard for them. Anyway, it's an interesting take - I think often we (meaning everyone here) talk more about the positives of a player and will focus on that, willing to let go a few negatives. And to some extent at this point in the process, it's all about the flaws - it's how you separate the good from the fantastic - or the 1st pick from the 1st day from the first pick of the 5th round and so on.Just some food for thought.

 

[Chaos Commish]

A long snip from TFY with a bombshell at the bottom:

A regional combine took place in New Jersey yesterday for a number of local college prospects as well as one time NFL players hoping to get back into the league or play north of the border. Also- breaking news on players being removed from team boards.

Hands down the top performer of the day was Shawn McMackin, the offensive lineman from Hofstra and one of the biggest sleepers in this months draft.

Yesterday McMackin weighed 295 pounds then proceeded to run his forty's in times of 4.81, with some having him clocked as fast as 4.77. His short shuttle time of 4.40 was solid as was his three cone of 7.20 seconds. During the official Hofstra pro-day last month McMackin completed 42 reps on the bench, yet two were taken away for not locking out which left the official total at 40.

The versatile offensive lineman has started at both guard and both tackle positions in college and has also seen action at center. He is starting to gain notoriety in scouting circles as the Indianapolis Colts have shown heavy interest in him with the Carolina Panthers and Detroit Lions also looking hard at him.

Eric Foster of Rutgers also took part in the shuttle and defensive line drills yesterday. His shuttle times were solid in the mid 4.6 area. The prior week Foster injured his hamstring during his first running at Rutgers pro-day event and was sent to the sidelines. He hopes to get another chance to run for scouts before the draft.

Teams are still showing a lot of interest in Foster. He is being flown in for visits with by the Seattle Seahawks and Indianapolis Colts while the Kansas City Chiefs have also expressed a lot of interest in Foster.

Former NFL players who worked out yesterday included former Oklahoma Sooner defensive back Chijioke Onyenegecha who posted a 4.47 in the forty.

Cedrick Washington the former starting receiver/return specialist from Arkansas, ran 4.53 seconds in the forty then looked terrific catching the ball.

Defensive end/linebacker Thomas Carroll, who spent his college career at Miami, was also on hand. The New York Giants, the team which previously waived Carroll, is set to individually work him out.

Defensive tackle Aki Jones who played for the Washington Redskins out of Fordham University, ran a 4.92-seconds forty after weighing in just under 300-pounds.

League insiders have told us that a number of teams have removed Nevada linebacker Ezra Butler from their draft boards after the senior admitted that marijuana was part of his diet. We will continue to follow the story.

Another prospect getting checked out for marijuana use is Cal receiver DeSean Jackson. Sources have told us Jackson was suspended from the Cal-Stanford game because of getting caught using marijuana.

Ruh roh. This might be interesting to follow. Or it could be another WRs agent blowing smoke again. McCackin sounds like a beast. He would have been both the strongest and fastest OL at the Combine with those numbers.

 

[massraider]

A long snip from TFY with a bombshell at the bottom:

A regional combine took place in New Jersey yesterday for a number of local college prospects as well as one time NFL players hoping to get back into the league or play north of the border. Also- breaking news on players being removed from team boards. Hands down the top performer of the day was Shawn McMackin, the offensive lineman from Hofstra and one of the biggest sleepers in this months draft. Yesterday McMackin weighed 295 pounds then proceeded to run his forty's in times of 4.81, with some having him clocked as fast as 4.77. His short shuttle time of 4.40 was solid as was his three cone of 7.20 seconds. During the official Hofstra pro-day last month McMackin completed 42 reps on the bench, yet two were taken away for not locking out which left the official total at 40. The versatile offensive lineman has started at both guard and both tackle positions in college and has also seen action at center. He is starting to gain notoriety in scouting circles as the Indianapolis Colts have shown heavy interest in him with the Carolina Panthers and Detroit Lions also looking hard at him. .

McCackin sounds like a beast. He would have been both the strongest and fastest OL at the Combine with those numbers.

I didn't even see McMackin listed over at NFLDS. I wonder if those workout numbers will get him drafted, or if he is just gonna be a priority free agent.