modogg
Footballguy
I don't know why these always crack me up. i think because Big Show is such a disliked character, that it is nice to know at least someone roots for him
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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
Abraham
Footballguy
Dead. No pop for cena, Ziggler, etc.
Rollins and Ambrose got a roar.
Usos and the divas match were quiet too.
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
RBM
Footballguy
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
If you didn't enjoy tonight's episode, you may as well stop watching. It was awesome.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Just too easy to put Bryan in the main event now.. Reigns isn't ready.. save him and make him come from underneath next year...
RBM
Footballguy
Main event was great. Three good segments.
Ambrose segment
Wyatt vs Zigs
Bryan vs Rollins
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Miz may never be a main event guy again, but the guy can unquestionably help guys he's working with get over.He had Alex Riley hot & then creative dropped Riley's push completely. He's doing the same with Mizdow right now. Same concern though -- what he'll do after he breaks up with Miz.
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Jayrok
Footballguy
So Taker can have his final victory/retirement match? May be predictable but the fans would love it I'd imagine.
Jeremy
Footballguy
I really hope they don't go that direction. There's a fine line between giving the fans what they want and letting them book the shows. I caught the first 15 mins of HHH on the Stone Cold podcast before work this morning and I thought HHH did a nice job explaining the challenges of booking in the "reality era" in which Kayfabe is dead. The 8 and 10 year old there with their parents wants something different than the 22 year smart mark sitting next to them. And the "grandpa" wants something different than both.
It seems like fans are no longer content to just have the story told to them. They want to steer the ship. And I'm not a fan of that at all.
IMO, they need to stay this course this year. They gave in last year, which was fine because they WAY missed the boat on Bautista. But they should not make that a habit. If they need to double turn to where Reigns is the heel and Lesnar the face, so be it. But don't give in to the fans just because they throw a hissy fit every time Daniel Bryan doesn't go over.
soothsayer
Footballguy
I think they've set us up for a Reigns win at Fastlane. I wonder though about a face-face matchup there - will they turn Reigns before Fastlane?
GoFishTN
Footballguy
So, they should ignore what their paying customers want? I'm thinking that's not a great idea.
JB Breakfast Club
Footballguy
The problem is, the crowd is wrong most of the time. They boo Cena because he never loses...yet they boo whenever Bryan doesn't win. So...they want Bryan to be the new Superman who defeats all odds all of the time and never looks vulnerable? That would suck.
I also don't think they need to "turn" Reigns. Roman just needs to be Roman.
Jeremy
Footballguy
Yeah, to me it's like an owner or GM signing a high priced free agent or resigning a player the fans love because that's what the fans demanded.
Most Packers fans wanted Ted Thompson to bring Favre back in 2008. Some went so far as to organize protests, boycotts and circulate petitions. People that were interviewed felt like the Packers should listen to their fans instead of the smart football people that they hired. Let the experts do their job. They'll stumble once in a while, but most of the time they know what they're doing. If you listen to the fans, you'll soon be sitting in the crowd with them.
Besides, there's good money in pissing off the fans. Skip Bayless has made himself arguably the most powerful man at ESPN doing just that. People claim they've stopped watching, but the ratings say otherwise.
In wrestling you have to pick your spots. You can't just say "how high" every time the internet wrestling community says "jump". If they start doing that they're going to be in real trouble down the road.
There is good money in pissing off the fans, however WWE made a mistake anointing Reigns the golden boy before he ever wrestled a singles match or got on the mic.
It's clear now that Ambrose and Rollins carried the shield in the ring.
I can't fathom a way that Reigns can carry a one on one WM main event this year. He's just not that good of an in ring worker. It would be awful for the product.
It's clear now that Ambrose and Rollins carried the shield in the ring.
I can't fathom a way that Reigns can carry a one on one WM main event this year. He's just not that good of an in ring worker. It would be awful for the product.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Absolutely. People will pay to see heels get beaten. It worked in the NWA for YEARS. WWE can alternate between face and heel champions as long as you can generate heat, people will pay.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Now that Taker has lost, I don't think he's much of an attraction. And if Sting wrestles at 'mania I hope it's in a tag match, because I don't think he can handle a singles match on his own.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Good wrestling promotions have always given the fans what they wanted. Heck, that's true for all good businesses - give the customers what they want... supply the demand. The only difference here is that the fans are much more vocal and immediate now with their disapproval... and I don't see anything wrong with that. And the WWE should prefer that as well as this gives them time to reshape the product before incurring significant damage (i.e., network cancellations and low PPV buy rates for their biggest event of the year).
Also, for as badly as the Bautista situation was botched last year, the Reigns situation is FAR worse given what had already happened last year and it was woefully apparent to everyone but Vince that Reigns wasn't "ready" (I don't think he'll ever really have it, to be honest).
Staying the course with Reigns is really an admission to the fans that the WWE ownership doesn't care what it's customers think and that's the ultimate hubris.
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OC Zed
Footballguy
The boos Cena and Reigns receive are for two very different reasons. The fans that don't like Cena still, for the most part, respect his ability... they are just tired of his gimmick and his run at the top. If Bryan had a 10-year reign, they would probably be tired of him as well. Bryan's run lasted all of 2 months after years of being kept down.
In contrast, the fans are booing Reigns because he's done nothing to really earn his spot and he hasn't shown any real talent in the ring or on the mic. They are booing the notion of a having a total stiff shoved down their throat for the biggest spot in the company. It's like watching the next coming of Cena, but for a guy that's a hack... that's a much worse scenario.
OC Zed
Footballguy
The sports GM analogy isn't accurate... real sports are judged in wins and losses. Pro wrestling is decided by how well the fans are entertained. The fans don't think Reigns is as entertaining as other guys on the roster.
And there is good money in pissing off the fans... that's what the heels are for. But heels being heels is a different concept altogether than giving the fans a bad product.
OC Zed
Footballguy
As critical as I have been of how badly the company screwed up the Rumble, I give them some credit in how they set up Fast Lane. They've given themselves 2 weeks to turn it around with Reigns and if they can't they can save some face and right the ship with a Bryan win. If Reigns can somehow pull off a good match without Bryan absolutely carrying him, then I think most fans can tolerate the Reigns/Lesnar main event. If he can't, then it's all that much worse by management.
D in the D
Footballguy
Miz is kind of an updated version of Chris Jericho in that regard...helping getting guys over.
He had Alex Riley hot & then creative dropped Riley's push completely. He's doing the same with Mizdow right now. Same concern though -- what he'll do after he breaks up with Miz.
Not sure about what happens to Mizdow after the inevitable split with Miz. Maybe they rehash the Al Snow, gimmick a week routine.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Sandow is actually on Jericho's podcast this week... he said he thinks he can turn the gimmick into something serious if need be. I'll believe it when I see it.Miz is kind of an updated version of Chris Jericho in that regard...helping getting guys over.
He had Alex Riley hot & then creative dropped Riley's push completely. He's doing the same with Mizdow right now. Same concern though -- what he'll do after he breaks up with Miz.
Not sure about what happens to Mizdow after the inevitable split with Miz. Maybe they rehash the Al Snow, gimmick a week routine.
Jeremy
Footballguy
I guess I don't share your scorn for Reigns. Is he any worse than say the Ultimate Warrior? He couldn't wrestle a lick and was incoherent on the mic. But he was a big star before he got too big for his britches. In the land of sports entertainment you can get by without being Brett Hart in the ring. He will need to get better on the mic, but he'll get there.OC Zed said:
I just don't like the fans having SO much power that they directly dictate what happens. Especially since not everyone wants the same things. Will there be another "cancel WWE Network" campaign if Cena should be given the belt again? Or if Ziggler doesn't get the push the internet fans think he deserves?
Maybe they have other long range plans for Bryan. Maybe his moment was planned for Summerslam. Maybe they feel after the long layoff that they need to re-establish him a little bit again like they didn't with Bautista.
GoFishTN
Footballguy
Bryan was supposed to face Sheamus in a rematch at last year's WM. They have no plans for him, except what the fans force on them.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I think they need to turn Reigns--embrace the hate and the boos.
I don't like the act of Bryan talking all nice and encouraging him and hoping the fans will, just by association, like Reigns. Actually if Reigns beats Bryan at Fastlane, the fans are just going to hate him more--not all of sudden respect him.
I didn't think the crowd was all that bad last night. We here in Colorado do not get Raw that often so when it comes through, the fans are just excited to see everyone. If you notice last night the pop for Cesaro was just as loud as for Cena.
I don't like the act of Bryan talking all nice and encouraging him and hoping the fans will, just by association, like Reigns. Actually if Reigns beats Bryan at Fastlane, the fans are just going to hate him more--not all of sudden respect him.
I didn't think the crowd was all that bad last night. We here in Colorado do not get Raw that often so when it comes through, the fans are just excited to see everyone. If you notice last night the pop for Cesaro was just as loud as for Cena.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
My first thought was they were setting it up for Roman to beat Bryan.
You guys are fun to read though with all your angles.
What's the details on this Bautista talk? Did they push him last year to the title or did they overpush him like Roman and change plans so to speak? I don't remember my son mentioning anything about this.
You guys are fun to read though with all your angles.
What's the details on this Bautista talk? Did they push him last year to the title or did they overpush him like Roman and change plans so to speak? I don't remember my son mentioning anything about this.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).
UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.
Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
He was coming back to the WWE after filming Guardians of the Galaxy. He was booked to win the Royal Rumble and get the automatic title shot at WrestleMania. The crowd knew what was going to happen and they just crapped all over it.
They salvaged the situation to making it a 3-way dance for the title which was won by Bryan.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
True. No matter how hard they try to replicate it, there will never be anything like Mulkeymania.Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.
Gawain
Footballguy
I always feel a little guilty for not being more of a Cena fan.
He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.
He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.
I'm not sure there's a harder worker.
You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.
He's a machine when it comes to Make-A-Wish stuff.
He seems like an all around decent guy, though I'm not sure his divorce was really caused by an over-budget remodel.
I'm not sure there's a harder worker.
You see the current HW contenders and I kinda miss Cena being in the mix.
jurrassic
Footballguy
If you thought there were boos at Royal Rumble, watch what happens if Reigns beats Bryant. Not sure why WWE would even consider that match unless
What I don't understand is why WWE management doesn't just embrace this reality era and shift the product. I'm not saying you let the fans determine everything and vote for all the matches but they could do some very interesting things by blurry the lines of reality/fiction. Creating the perception that certain guys are breaking the 4th wall, etc.
- Bryant wins
- They want to give a massive middle finger to their fan base and let Reigns win.
What I don't understand is why WWE management doesn't just embrace this reality era and shift the product. I'm not saying you let the fans determine everything and vote for all the matches but they could do some very interesting things by blurry the lines of reality/fiction. Creating the perception that certain guys are breaking the 4th wall, etc.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Heyman/Reigns seems like a peefect pairing for it not to happen with Brock leaving.
RBM
Footballguy
Two things I'm pretty sure of:
1 Reigns is going over Bryan
2 *If Brock resigns* Brock is not losing to Reigns
There is nobody that is credible enough right now to go over Brock. That's on them too for not properly building any young guy to be at that level. It's not Bryan. It's not Reigns. Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt are their best bets imo. All the focus after WM should be getting those three ready.
1 Reigns is going over Bryan
2 *If Brock resigns* Brock is not losing to Reigns
There is nobody that is credible enough right now to go over Brock. That's on them too for not properly building any young guy to be at that level. It's not Bryan. It's not Reigns. Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt are their best bets imo. All the focus after WM should be getting those three ready.
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OC Zed
Footballguy
Given the circumstances, Reigns is worse than the Ultimate Warrior. Back in the late '80s, WWF fans had never seen great workers aside from Savage and Steamboat. All that changed when Hart and Michaels rose to prominence and there hasn't been a mega-face of the company since that couldn't put on a great match. Also, FWIW, I'd still say Warrior's intensity and goofball interviews still trump what we've seen from Reigns. And Warrior just looked out of this world (ya, it was steroids, but still). Reigns, in contrast, needs to wear a shirt/chest protector to the ring at all times.
Beyond that, I don't think the fans would be as up in arms regarding the Cena and Ziggler scenarios you mentioned. The hardcore fans at least respect Cena and there are still other alternatives to promote over Ziggler (and Ziggler isn't necessarily universally loved by the smarks).
SlaX
Footballguy
UW's win over HTM and his feud with Rick Rude are what set him up for the title run. Those are the missing ingredients to Reigns here. He still needs to bake. He's not ready yet.I'm meh on Reigns - after all, I don't believe it's his fault he's being pushed like that (it would be interesting if you could get him to shoot what he'd say).
UW was kind of a case all his own. Dude had the entrance music, the energy and a wild style that fans grabbed onto. He was never going to make you forget Buddy Rogers, but if you re-watch that IC title match against the Honky Tonk Man (all 33 seconds of it), that crowd exploded with one of the largest pops I've ever heard.
Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.
Since they're really feeding into the fact that he's family with the Rock, why not completely steal from him, ala "Die Rocky Die!" Have Reigns feed into the boos and the hate and turn heel.
SlaX
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YHL3oxYcW4True. No matter how hard they try to replicate it, there will never be anything like Mulkeymania.Sometimes, it's just right place, right gimmick, right time.
OC Zed
Footballguy
I don't think that they would waste Miz vs. Sandow as a dark match as Sandow is one of the most over gimmicks they have right now. Harper vs. Ryback also could be played up enough to be on the main card as well. The Usos vs. Ascension is more of a candidate for a dark match, IMO.
Abraham
Footballguy
Was just thinking that all the belts have to be in play.
Cena v rusev
Lesner v Bryan
Rollins v anyone
Those are three great matches waiting to happen. Rollins is the best heal since piper. When the shield broke up I thought he was the least talented of the three. Was I wrong. He is sensational and can carry a match as well as anyone.
If I'm the creatives and trainers I am working tirelessly to make sure roman and Bryan is a great match. Don't need to worry about Bryan, but roman could get closer to being over with a great match. Win or lose they could really move roman along.
Cena v rusev
Lesner v Bryan
Rollins v anyone
Those are three great matches waiting to happen. Rollins is the best heal since piper. When the shield broke up I thought he was the least talented of the three. Was I wrong. He is sensational and can carry a match as well as anyone.
If I'm the creatives and trainers I am working tirelessly to make sure roman and Bryan is a great match. Don't need to worry about Bryan, but roman could get closer to being over with a great match. Win or lose they could really move roman along.
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