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*** Official *** Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (1 Viewer)

Rogue One will finish #1 Domestic for the year, bank on it. 

#2 is Dory

#3 is Capt America

Disney is gonna have a White Christmas all the way around. 

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Force Awakens is a rip off of New Hope, not much original thought. At least Phantom Menace had a dude with a double light saber and some killer battles. We just see Solo killed off by his snot nose sniveling excuse of a son, throw up.
Click to expand...


Pretty simplistic reasoning, can't get behind it. Setting aside my genuine love of TFA, and just looking at it rationally...choose any five minute span of Phantom Menace that isn't eyeroll worthy, aside from the lightsaber duel at the end, I dare you.That's the one plus, and TFA has many moments that match it. Plus the STRONG nostalgia factor it has going for it, mixed with a dash of "thank god it was way better than Phantom Menace or any of the prequel abortions".

It's not even close in my mind. Can't believe we're even discussing it.

 
Capella said:
Terrible shtick 
Click to expand...
If it will keep the peace, where should I be ranking it? Ahead of Menace? Ok fine that moves up to 6th on my list...is Force better than Sith? It might be for many but the storylines in Sith seem to be a little too great vs the death of Solo. I do understand you feel Force was a better made film than a lot of others in the Series, safe to say it's very high on your list? 2nd?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
If it will keep the peace, where should I be ranking it? Ahead of Menace? Ok fine that moves up to 6th on my list...is Force better than Sith? It might be for many but the storylines in Sith seem to be a little too great vs the death of Solo. I do understand you feel Force was a better made film than a lot of others in the Series, safe to say it's very high on your list? 2nd?
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I don't really care where you rank it but it's miles above 1-3, even if you just consider the aesthetics of it and don't bother with the way way better acting and story. 

Force is my top-4 with rogue one. Jedi at 5. :nerd:  

 
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ConnSKINS26 said:
Pretty simplistic reasoning, can't get behind it. Setting aside my genuine love of TFA, and just looking at it rationally...choose any five minute span of Phantom Menace that isn't eyeroll worthy, aside from the lightsaber duel at the end, I dare you.That's the one plus, and TFA has many moments that match it. Plus the STRONG nostalgia factor it has going for it, mixed with a dash of "thank god it was way better than Phantom Menace or any of the prequel abortions".

It's not even close in my mind. Can't believe we're even discussing it.
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I'll slip it ahead of Menace for arguments sake. I lumped those 3 together for a reason. None of them hold my attention for long. 

There will be lots of time to have this debate. I think we should talk about Rogue One.

I liked the pilot defector, we have seen him do some other quality work in Nightcrawler. The cast was top notch. 

Mads Miks was a nice anchor as the weapons scientist father figure, he was good in the movie and gave it credibility. 

We need a movie on the blind man and big gun. 

 
As long as the three prequels are in any order in your bottom 3, you're good in my mind. An argument can be made for any of the rest anywhere you want, though Empire should be #1 unless you saw ANH in theaters originally imo. That gives it an emotional bump that you can't really compete with.

Regardless of the story implications, Sith has too many back-breaking flaws to break out of the bottom three. 

 
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I didn't realize he played Nightcrawler, that's cool. 

How about Mads Mikkelsen this year? Big roles in Rogue One and Doctor Strange.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Force Awakens is a rip off of New Hope, not much original thought. At least Phantom Menace had a dude with a double light saber and some killer battles. We just see Solo killed off by his snot nose sniveling excuse of a son, throw up.
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While I agree it's still better than any movie with Jar Jar Binks.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Just got back from seeing it and while I enjoyed it I was disappointed because I had heard such good reviews.  I enjoyed The Force Awakens much more. 

My rankings:

1) Return of the Jedi

2) A New Hope

3) The Force Awakens 

4) Empire Strikes Back

5) Rogue One

6) 1-3 prequels 




 




 
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Interesting.  I don't recall seeing anyone rank ESB that low.  I know a lot of people put ANH first and that certainly makes sense. 

I do think we can all get behind the sequels being garbage.  I watched them once, and won't watch them again.

ETA:  I was about to start Hippling the thread but I see you've already responded.  To each his own :hifive:

 
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I've got tiers for how I think about the SW movies. I think this slots right in the second tier with IV.

V, VII

IV, R1

VI

I, II, III

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Force Awakens is a rip off of New Hope, not much original thought. At least Phantom Menace had a dude with a double light saber and some killer battles. We just see Solo killed off by his snot nose sniveling excuse of a son, throw up.
Click to expand...
The scene where Kylo Ren tries to force call Luke's lightsaber and it flies by him and comes to Rey instead was better than all three prequels by itself.  And I'm not a prequel hater (they sucked don't get me wrong, but I'm not militant about it)

 
I actually have quite a bit of nostalgia for I and up to just a couple years ago equated it with VI. I was 12 when the movie was released and wanted to grow up to be a Podracer.

I rewatched all the Episodes for the first time in ages and realized just how poor of a movie it was.

 
Insein said:
What more did you want developed? We saw more of Jyn than we did of Rey. We know Jyns whole life story basically and her motivations and skill are pretty clearly established.  

Cassian is pretty clear too. He's a rebel who does whatever it takes to get the job done. Yet he grew beyond that because he wanted to be more than just a killer with a cause. 

IP man and his buddy were pretty clearly the wandering bad asses that we get from most action movies. We got what we needed for them.  

The pilot? His motivations were pretty clear. He believed in Gaelan enough to throw away everything he had done to that point in his life.

Then there's Gaelan. Clearly conflicted about his role in making a weapon that kills planets.  Much like the scientists that invented the atom bomb, he had an immense amount of guilt. But at the same time, he knee the only way to be useful was to be on the project and sabotage it than to let some one else finish it.

Who else were you concerned about here? All these characters gave way more depth and back story than any one from TFA.
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It doesn't matter who we saw more of, it matters who we cared about.  Rey was awesome.  It didn't bother me what happened to Jyn.  The same for the rest of the cast.

The characters were just not developed enough for anyone to form an emotional connection.  Did you really feel anything when any of the characters met their fate?  It wasn't that the characters were as cardboard as they were in the original 3 prequels, it was just that a connection doesn't happen with the audience.

 
Lol, I have a soft spot for the big galoot.

Edit: and want the JJB=Sith Lord to be true so bad

 
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Mario Kart said:
The Force Awakens is not going to age well. Too many scenes felt "small" like on a sound stage and not in a bigger world. The action and scope of the film were on par with the overall story of Star Wars.

Rogue One did not feel small and it played out well, overall. The action sequences and such did not feel like they were on a sound stage at all. The story was better than expected. I think Rogue One will age better than TFA.
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Not a chance.

The Force Awakens was a real movie.  The review below from The Guardian sums it up pretty good.


“Rogue One: A Star Wars Story” is for the fans, all right, but in that expression’s worst way. Unless you’re thrilled by the idea of 133 minutes of sideways mentions, shout-outs and straight-up references to the original “Star Wars” (or “Episode IV: A New Hope,” for those born after 1977), there’s not nearly enough excitement going on here, much less character, plot or story.


Which, if you're a fan, isn't a problem:


It is not, if we’re being honest, a real movie. It is a fan exercise. Its whole purpose is to tread water in a larger, more familiar pool... Luckily, I am a fan! As such, there comes a point at which I shrug and stop caring if others are bored. (It’s like bringing a friend who only knows the hits to see a band you love, and they decide this is the show where they’ll bust out their early, complex album cuts. At some point you stop being a tour guide and cheer for yourself.)

 
I don't disagree with The Guardian, but I think it will age very well for the fan.

You have these movies that create such a wonderful world and mysticism just begging to be explored. So let's go exploring.

All in for more.

 
Does anybody really care how a non-fan perceives this movie, when it won't effect the bottom line? This film is going to do numbers regardless of how casual movie-goers feel. Word of mouth and reviews are great, and hype from fans is going to be enough to offset a few complainers who weren't the target audience in the first place. 

 
Chaz McNulty said:
It doesn't matter who we saw more of, it matters who we cared about.  Rey was awesome.  It didn't bother me what happened to Jyn.  The same for the rest of the cast.

The characters were just not developed enough for anyone to form an emotional connection.  Did you really feel anything when any of the characters met their fate?  
Click to expand...
I did.  But it's not fair to compare as we know we'll see Rey again.  Based on the timeline here we knew the fate of this crew so it's more difficult for the audience to become attached to them.  

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Not a chance.

The Force Awakens was a real movie.  The review below from The Guardian sums it up pretty good.


“Rogue One: A Star Wars Story” is for the fans, all right, but in that expression’s worst way. Unless you’re thrilled by the idea of 133 minutes of sideways mentions, shout-outs and straight-up references to the original “Star Wars” (or “Episode IV: A New Hope,” for those born after 1977), there’s not nearly enough excitement going on here, much less character, plot or story.


Which, if you're a fan, isn't a problem:


It is not, if we’re being honest, a real movie. It is a fan exercise. Its whole purpose is to tread water in a larger, more familiar pool... Luckily, I am a fan! As such, there comes a point at which I shrug and stop caring if others are bored. (It’s like bringing a friend who only knows the hits to see a band you love, and they decide this is the show where they’ll bust out their early, complex album cuts. At some point you stop being a tour guide and cheer for yourself.)
Click to expand...
Since TFA pretty much copied ANH the first paragraph describes TFA spot on.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Not a chance.

The Force Awakens was a real movie.  The review below from The Guardian sums it up pretty good.


“Rogue One: A Star Wars Story” is for the fans, all right, but in that expression’s worst way. Unless you’re thrilled by the idea of 133 minutes of sideways mentions, shout-outs and straight-up references to the original “Star Wars” (or “Episode IV: A New Hope,” for those born after 1977), there’s not nearly enough excitement going on here, much less character, plot or story.


Which, if you're a fan, isn't a problem:


It is not, if we’re being honest, a real movie. It is a fan exercise. Its whole purpose is to tread water in a larger, more familiar pool... Luckily, I am a fan! As such, there comes a point at which I shrug and stop caring if others are bored. (It’s like bringing a friend who only knows the hits to see a band you love, and they decide this is the show where they’ll bust out their early, complex album cuts. At some point you stop being a tour guide and cheer for yourself.)
Click to expand...
I have not spoken to MK in years but I agree with him. One of the biggest nostalgia parts for middle aged dudes like me was the feeling that it wasn't on a blue screen and felt like they were shooting outside on real locations. That may or may not be true, perhaps a blend of sorts but you cannot discount the opinion of paid movie goers in here by snipping the Guardian. 

97% critics like Force and a ton in here it seems but a lot of us held tight that something was wrong. Rogue One proves it. How could any critic not like this movie? 75% of top critics liked it, that's good. I bet the ones who don't are millennials who really do not connect to New Hope and Empire as some of us who were paid attendees in '77 and such. 

I think Rogue One was for the adults.

 
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Chaz McNulty said:
It doesn't matter who we saw more of, it matters who we cared about.  Rey was awesome.  It didn't bother me what happened to Jyn.  The same for the rest of the cast.

The characters were just not developed enough for anyone to form an emotional connection.  Did you really feel anything when any of the characters met their fate?  It wasn't that the characters were as cardboard as they were in the original 3 prequels, it was just that a connection doesn't happen with the audience.
Click to expand...
Rey was "awesome" in your eyes because she was a super hero. To me that was boring. She had no challenge. Fight a sith in training? No problem. Fly the Millennium Falcon? No problem. Jedi mind trick a storm trooper without any knowledge of how or why it should work? No problem. Escape exploding planet? No problem. After awhile you stop caring about Rey because you know nothing is going to happen to her. She will always be right and never be challenged.

Jyn on the other hand hand a family taken from her, figures out her father created a super weapon and vows to stop it or die trying. So yea I felt something right there. This normal girl felt responsible to make sure her father is not remembered as a monster but as a hero. She's all in and you knew she was going to die but she did it anyway. No ex machina or cliche was coming to save her. Jyn was fighting all on her own and won despite the cost.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
97% critics like Force and a ton in here it seems but a lot of us held tight that something was wrong. Rogue One proves it. How could any critic not like this movie? 75% of top critics liked it, that's good. I bet the ones who don't are millennials who really do not connect to New Hope and Empire as some of us who were paid attendees in '77 and such. 

I think Rogue One was for the adults.
Click to expand...


So...the critics validate Rogue One but not TFA?

 
Insein said:
Jyn on the other hand hand a family taken from her, figures out her father created a super weapon and vows to stop it or die trying. So yea I felt something right there. This normal girl felt responsible to make sure her father is not remembered as a monster but as a hero. She's all in and you knew she was going to die but she did it anyway. No ex machina or cliche was coming to save her. Jyn was fighting all on her own and won despite the cost.
Click to expand...
I think you are assigning feelings and motivation to Jyn which are not actually conveyed by the movie. She never really vows to "stop the Death Star or die trying", does she? Seems like her only motivation was just to find her father, and it's not until the last third of the movie that she shows an interest in getting the plans to the rebellion.

Also, I would disagree about Jyn being saved by clichés -- "the mystical Asian who walks through a hail of gunfire" and "the last-minute savior who deactivates the shield" are two classic movie clichés (the latter of which is a staple of almost every Star Wars movie).

 
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I just finished TFA again, and saw Rogue One on Thursday. They're both really good movies in their own right. Anyone saying that one is unequivocally better than the other is probably dumb.

 
NewlyRetired said:
oh ok, I think we are saying the same thing.  When I said CGI I was talking about the digital manipulation made to do what you said.

Note that Tarken was not a CGI human.  He was played by Guy Henry (Extras fans will probably recognize him).  Only his face was digitized.  Leia was the same way with actress Ingvild Deila.
Click to expand...


I confirmed that the Red and Gold leaders were indeed old, live action plates from the original trilogy that were then composited into the new space battle scenes.

Yes, it does seem we were saying the same thing.  I tend to nitpick at this special effects stuff cuz, um, you can probably guess.

If I may dig a little deeper into the "CGI human" point...

The way it's usually done, and the way it was done in this movie, is:

- cast an actor to play the role

- put dots on an actors face (called "tracking markers") and put head-mounted stereo camera rig on the actor's head

(here's a good example of it from ILM's work on Warcraft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jak3WXZZlVo#t=49s )

- the actor acts out all the scenes they need for the movie and the footage for those scenes provides tracking data for how the dots (face) moves

- these motions drive an animation rig that does some /magic/ to map those tracked dots into expressions from a library built for that actor (happy, sad, angry, puzzled, and dozens of things in between)

- then those motions in turn are used animate the rig for the digital character, monster, mutant turtle, orc or, in this case, a dead actor, to make the digital version of that character come to life

The above technique is generally what is referred to as a "digital human" in visual effects. These days, CG humans are almost always "driven" by a real actor providing the performance.

sorry for the FX Nerd tangent. That's interesting stuff to me at least and hopefully a few of you :)

 
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Went to a midnight showing.

Absolutely blown away.  Hands down better than everything but Empire.  And I loved TFA and ANH and ROTJ and am even a huge prequels fan (yup).  

This was just on another level, transcending its own genre.  Fantastic story, characters and acting.  Visual effects were stunning.  

Vader's final scene literally had me open-mouthed in shock, which doesn't happen very much.  Perhaps one of my favorite 60 seconds of film or TV ever.  A-mazing.

Bravo to these filmmakers.  An incredible achievement.  

 
After seeing it Friday with my Dad, I took my daughter to it yesterday.

She isn't a "big" Star Wars fan but thought the trailers for it looked good so wanted to see it.. She has seen A New Hope twice and Revenge Of The Sith once..

As we were leaving for the theater she asked "So this falls between Revenge Of The Sith and A New Hope right?"
Dam, she knew more about it going in then my Dad who has seen all of them :lol:

I really enjoyed it the 2nd time. Just like Force Awakens, the first time watching you are just trying to take it all in, while the 2nd time you can just sit back and enjoy.

For someone like myself that puts New Hope at 1a and Empire at 1b, my daughters take afterwards was kind of interesting.

I'm wondering if it might be the generation( she's 18) or because she isn't a "Star Wars Geek" she didn't get the back story out of IV like most of us did...
Her quote was:

"Now New Hope makes more sense to me and I want to watch it again. The way that one just jumped right into the action, without the back story always had me a little lost.
Now I can watch it with an understanding of what happened to get to that point".

To me that is a telling sign how well it was done in that it makes a non-Star Wars geek want to watch some of the older movies. :thumbup:

 
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With all of this great advanced technology you would have thought the empire would know they have Gyn Erso in custody and do a little more to keep her in chains. 

But then again, they basically let Leia walk also. They deserve to have their death stars blown up. 

 
My son is efforting to see it again bc he fell asleep. Ill probably have to take him again. What a bunmer. 

 
AcerFC said:
I enjoyed it as well. Went to 7:45 and both kids, 9&7 fell asleep. Maybe be of the two hours of previews. Full length previews for Logan, fast and furious 900, King Kong, Spider-Man, sing, baby boss, pirates of Caribbean and guardians of galaxy 2. 

Both said they enjoyed what they saw

I'm assuming

no rebels made it out alive since no one knew how to take the atat out in empire


  Reveal hidden contents
really enjoyed the



  Reveal hidden contents
rancour chess game being played and the guy and his walrus buddy who messed with Luke making an appearance. I'm sure I'm missing more.



  Reveal hidden contents
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They showed the preview to Planet of the Apes in ours - right after it starts my son says "Harambe would have loved it". Got a LOL from me :lmao:  

 
Frostillicus said:
The scene where Kylo Ren tries to force call Luke's lightsaber and it flies by him and comes to Rey instead was better than all three prequels by itself.  And I'm not a prequel hater (they sucked don't get me wrong, but I'm not militant about it)
Click to expand...
This scene was a perfect example of what I didn't like about Rey.  She goes from thinking the Force is a myth to finding out she has the Force to being able to out-Force a man who was raised by a Force-sensitive parent with a Jedi Master uncle and trained for (probably) years by said Jedi Master before turning on him and getting training from another Force master, all within the time frame of a few days.

Anakin Skywalker, a kid conceived by the Force, couldn't do that.

 
After some time to reflect...

I've never hated the prequels like most it seems. I like the Star Wars universe so I'm ok with them.  And 3 was actually pretty good for me. Loved the Saber battle at the end.

I think I might put Rouge One #2 on the list behind Empire. It's doesn't go lower than 3 after Empire and New Hope.

And it also makes me mad. This is the movie that Jedi should have been. This is the type of movie that the prequels should have been. This universe has greatness in it after Empire and now like many I just hate Lucas for what he failed to do and purposely did instead.

 
Frostillicus said:
The scene where Kylo Ren tries to force call Luke's lightsaber and it flies by him and comes to Rey instead was better than all three prequels by itself.  And I'm not a prequel hater (they sucked don't get me wrong, but I'm not militant about it)
Click to expand...
#### yea 

 
There is a big problem with Rogue One.  The characters are better than in Force Awakens.  Jyn Erso outclasses Rey as a female lead.  The droid was better than BB8.  Director Krennic was a moer interesting villain than anyone in TFA.  (That actor was the same guy who played the owner of the construction crews in The Dark Knight Rises that got double-crossed by Bane.  He said the line "Your evil!" and Bane responded with "I'm necessary evil!")

Its a better film with a better cast than TFA.  They overshadowed 7.

 
LAUNCH said:
<spoiler></spoiler>


I thought it was ok.  One thing that the new SW doesn't get right that the old one's did was create characters that people invest in.  Mark Hammill and Carrie Fischer weren't great "actors", but they brought an attitude to the screen.  Jyn and Cassian are ok, but to me didn't have a lot of chemistry and just needed to be fleshed out more.  Donnie and Weng though, felt like they had been together for a long time.  Saw Gerrara seemed like he was going to be more important, but then really was more of just a plot point.  K-2SO was by far the best character.  
Click to expand...
Why should you expect them to have chemistry together - they just met in the movie and didn't really like or trust each other.  The other two had obviously been together for years.

 
Aerial Assault said:
Went to a midnight showing.

Absolutely blown away.  Hands down better than everything but Empire.  And I loved TFA and ANH and ROTJ and am even a huge prequels fan (yup).  

This was just on another level, transcending its own genre.  Fantastic story, characters and acting.  Visual effects were stunning.  

Vader's final scene literally had me open-mouthed in shock, which doesn't happen very much.  Perhaps one of my favorite 60 seconds of film or TV ever.  A-mazing.

Bravo to these filmmakers.  An incredible achievement.  
Click to expand...
Probably my favorite scene I've seen in a theatre. I marked out like a 6-year-old. I don't know how I didn't stand up. I think I yelled out JEEEEEEESUS CHRIST YES in a packed theatre :lmao:  

 
Capella said:
Yea my wife asked me a few times "who is that" but she enjoyed it a lot. She was sad the droid and blind guy died. Liked them both a lot. 

I really can't believe they nuked the whole cast. Awesome. 
Click to expand...
Yeah totally agree. As we got halfway through the movie I thought every one of these people needs to die in order to make the line "many bothans died to get this information" reall hold weight.

Makes total sense especially if you watch all movies in a continuity fashion that those plans truly are the only way to bring the Death Star down, especially with them nuking their own base.

Just brilliant. It now makes the opening sequence that much more impactful in a new hope as you now have the backstory of what has gone into getting those plans. Just a great job, this felt more like episode 3.5 than an ancillary random story.

 
The Vader scene at the end took me back to my childhood - I can't remember feeling that much like a kid in a long time.  I'm sure I had a stupid/goofy smile on my face while he butchered 20 rebels.

 
hagmania said:
And though I respect your right to think it, I can't fathom ranking TFA outside of top 3.
Click to expand...
Here's my "problem" - like most I have ESB first but it's really tough to leave ANH out of the top 2-3 - it was our introduction to the SW Universe, I'll always have an non-objective view of it for that reason.  I think I go:

1. ESB

2. ANH

3. TFA

4. RO

5. ROTJ

6-8. Who cares

 
bagger said:
Yeah totally agree. As we got halfway through the movie I thought every one of these people needs to die in order to make the line "many bothans died to get this information" reall hold weight.

Makes total sense especially if you watch all movies in a continuity fashion that those plans truly are the only way to bring the Death Star down, especially with them nuking their own base.

Just brilliant. It now makes the opening sequence that much more impactful in a new hope as you now have the backstory of what has gone into getting those plans. Just a great job, this felt more like episode 3.5 than an ancillary random story.
Click to expand...
No bothans died to bring us this information. It's amazing how people still get this confused. Even veteran Star Wars nerds.

 
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