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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (11 Viewers)

Kal El said:
I’m not seeing updated news on the ship, but it is very funny that a country without a navy could have sunk an enemy flagship.
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It’s not like this was a slugfest in the middle of the Atlantic. An anti-ship missile fired from shore obviously hit a ship fairly close to land. 
However, the general point is still funny. 

 
Tom Servo said:
It’s not like this was a slugfest in the middle of the Atlantic. An anti-ship missile fired from shore obviously hit a ship fairly close to land. 
However, the general point is still funny. 
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that's the point. this was a limited launch of land based cruise missiles that the cruiser SHOULD HAVE intercepted....

except its systems are probably compromised due to the rampant embezzlement and fraud in the Russian military.

 
JaxBill said:
that's the point. this was a limited launch of land based cruise missiles that the cruiser SHOULD HAVE intercepted....

except its systems are probably compromised due to the rampant embezzlement and fraud in the Russian military.
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I’d also read that the UKR sent something towards the ship to act as a feint. The Moscow ship turns its radar to meet it, and hence doesn’t see the incoming missile. 

 
It's clear Russia's generals aren't even fighting the last war, they're fighting like war from 80 years back. This is a mess.

 
Tom Servo said:
I’d also read that the UKR sent something towards the ship to act as a feint. The Moscow ship turns its radar to meet it, and hence doesn’t see the incoming missile. 
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Reading about how they pulled it off, if true, was a brilliant maneuver. Launching Turkish drones to occupy the anti-aircraft systems, then launching the missiles that then drop down to wave height to keep their visual signature at a minimum before BOOM!

 
JaxBill said:
Russian tank tactics or lack thereof
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Establishing a formation/position that minimizes blind spots is basic stuff, heck, I do that as a dad to keep an eye on the area where my kids are playing. These guys are complete noobs, and the incoming conscripts will likely be somehow worse. Putin has already lost, but this is ineptness on a scale unseen in war. No attempt to change the failed tactics of sticking to roads and rails(I know it’s mud season, another example of terrible planning on Vlad’s part), their supply lines are basically shooting galleries, and their numbers are eventually going to be more of a liability, since lots of soldiers need lots of supplies, and what supplies they do get are from the Gorbachev era. 

 
Kal El said:
Establishing a formation/position that minimizes blind spots is basic stuff, heck, I do that as a dad to keep an eye on the area where my kids are playing. These guys are complete noobs, and the incoming conscripts will likely be somehow worse. Putin has already lost, but this is ineptness on a scale unseen in war. No attempt to change the failed tactics of sticking to roads and rails(I know it’s mud season, another example of terrible planning on Vlad’s part), their supply lines are basically shooting galleries, and their numbers are eventually going to be more of a liability, since lots of soldiers need lots of supplies, and what supplies they do get are from the Gorbachev era. 
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Not only does it minimize blind spots, it prevents the enemy from picking off multiple vehicles from above (even through drones or Javelins).  I've seen multiple comments that A10 pilots dream of seeing those fomations where they could just strafe down the line.

 
JaxBill said:
Not only does it minimize blind spots, it prevents the enemy from picking off multiple vehicles from above (even through drones or Javelins).  I've seen multiple comments that A10 pilots dream of seeing those fomations where they could just strafe down the line.
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I remember seeing that as well. Russia is showing why training and tactics matter, because they’re nowhere near their stated goal they were supposed to be by the end of February, and I just saw an article on Yahoo that Russia is failing to fill their conscript numbers from Donbas, because they don’t want to be “cannon fodder.” Granted, the story is from the Ukrainian side, so grain of salt needed, but clearly this isn’t going the way Vlad wanted.

 
So the Black Sea’s newest artificial reef may have been carrying a supposedly holy relic. I doubt it was a piece of the Cross(why would anyone want a piece of wood from that, and I’m also fairly sure that might count as idol worship, since it’s not God), and at any rate, that would mean even Jesus is telling the Russians to knock it off.

 
Is this good or bad?  My initial feeling is that it's bad, and the tables could be turned one day. 

>>New: Ukraine has run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russians in the 50 days since the war began, using the scans to find the soldiers' social media profiles - and send photos of their corpses to their families back home.<<

https://twitter.com/drewharwell/status/1514951942316961793

 
SoBeDad said:
Is this good or bad?  My initial feeling is that it's bad, and the tables could be turned one day. 

>>New: Ukraine has run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russians in the 50 days since the war began, using the scans to find the soldiers' social media profiles - and send photos of their corpses to their families back home.<<

https://twitter.com/drewharwell/status/1514951942316961793
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Word is they’re doing it to tell the families that their loved one died or got captured in an unjust war, thereby trying to break through the propaganda stranglehold. I don’t think they’re trying to mock the dead Russians, more like telling the families, “Hey, this guy died/is in jail here because your dictator is lying to you, and we kinda had to kill/capture him, since he was trying to kill us first.”

 
JaxBill said:
@confusedeagledc: ‘Wolverines’ graffiti straight out of ‘Red Dawn’ showing up all over battlefields in Ukraine https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/red-dawn-wolverines-russian-vehicles-ukraine/
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Of course, that Russian army was competent. This one is decidedly not that. 
 

Shifting gears slightly, I saw an article linked on Yahoo that said the Moskva was allegedly carrying 2 nukes. No idea how accurate that is, but they’re now in Davy Jones’ possession.

 
Sorry for consecutive posts, but Russia is now warning of unpredictable consequences if we keep sending Ukraine weapons. I’m not an expert, but I can guess that some of the consequences include empty Russian threats, better weapons for Ukraine to beat back the invaders, and more losses of untrained Russian conscripts.

 
Runkle said:
It's clear Russia's generals aren't even fighting the last war, they're fighting like war from 80 years back. This is a mess.
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At the rate that they are losing Generals and Colonels they will get fresh thinking whether they want to or not. The Ukrainians have been extremely effective in eliminating these senior officers likely aided by western intelligence. 

 
The Z Machine said:
It was obvious before but Andrés is the best "celebrity" chef out there.  He could have made millions with TV shows, endorsements, pots and pans at Target, etc. Instead, he cares much more about helping those in need than promoting his own brand. 
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Much respect for him and others who help feed those who cannot feed themselves. 

 
So basically the strategy is if we can't take it well just destroy it so you give up or have no place to live if you win

 
belljr said:
So basically the strategy is if we can't take it well just destroy it so you give up or have no place to live if you win
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And kidnap civilians and force them to relocate to Russia (once you're done raping and brutalizing women and children)

 
JaxBill said:
And kidnap civilians and force them to relocate to Russia (once you're done raping and brutalizing women and children)
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I wish they would be able to take up arms somehow, and make Russia regret that decision. I’m still very angry at the forced separation of parents and kids, to the point that I still hope that Russia experiences a thousand times the pain they’re causing.

 
The best thing that could happen is somebody takes Putin out. Sitting back and allowing this to happen because Ukraine isn't part of NATO is hard to stomach 

 
Pip's Invitation said:
As much as it is “because Ukraine isn’t part of NATO,” it could also be “because Russia has nukes and a leader who seems like he might actually use them.”
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That and European countries are dependent on Russian oil. Despite sanctions,  UK, France, Germany continue to buy billions in Russian oil while sending millions in UKR aid.

 
Pip's Invitation said:
As much as it is “because Ukraine isn’t part of NATO,” it could also be “because Russia has nukes and a leader who seems like he might actually use them.”
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This doesn't account for the possibility that Russia ends up using nukes anyway. What happens if it's Finland or Sweden next? Same argument for standing down? Are you advocating we allow Russia to invade any non-NATO country it chooses because we fear them using nukes?

At some point the cost of doing nothing can rival or surpass the toll of stepped up involvement. I don't think we are there yet, but there is always a tipping point.

I'm not advocating boots on the ground, or US led sorties, but I do think denying Ukraine access to MIG fighters via Poland was a mistake. I know this is a heated topic and not one I claim to be an expert on. Just one guys opinion...

 
Ben & Jerry's said:
This doesn't account for the possibility that Russia ends up using nukes anyway. What happens if it's Finland or Sweden next? Same argument for standing down? Are you advocating we allow Russia to invade any non-NATO country it chooses because we fear them using nukes?

At some point the cost of doing nothing can rival or surpass the toll of stepped up involvement. I don't think we are there yet, but there is always a tipping point.

I'm not advocating boots on the ground, or US led sorties, but I do think denying Ukraine access to MIG fighters via Poland was a mistake. I know this is a heated topic and not one I claim to be an expert on. Just one guys opinion...
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I’m not advocating anything, I was just offering another reason why the West hasn’t sent troops.

 
belljr said:
So basically the strategy is if we can't take it well just destroy it so you give up or have no place to live if you win
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After the invasion went past the first week and it was apparent Russia wasn't going to overrun the country, pretty sure this was Plan B. Destroy all you can as you scale back and draw a line in the sand at the Donbas region.

Ben & Jerry's said:
This doesn't account for the possibility that Russia ends up using nukes anyway. What happens if it's Finland or Sweden next? Same argument for standing down? Are you advocating we allow Russia to invade any non-NATO country it chooses because we fear them using nukes?
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At one point, Ukraine was part of the USSR so there is a history between the two countries. Not saying it makes it right but the dynamic is much different than Russia invading Finland or Sweden. 1. I don't think they will because as bad of an asskicking as they are taking in Ukraine, it would be worse against Finland or Sweden. 2. I don't think militarily, Russia could do it with any kind of sustained focus. 3. We don't have to be involved in every conflict on the globe. Plenty of weapons and countries able to step up and do something to help out not named the United States of America.

 
JaxBill said:
That and European countries are dependent on Russian oil. Despite sanctions,  UK, France, Germany continue to buy billions in Russian oil while sending millions in UKR aid.
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I remember reading that those nations are trying to get rid of their dependence on Russian oil, but that does take time. I feel like I heard Germany is dragging its feet on it, for reasons.

 
Good News/Bad News

@ThreshedThought: Ha. Look at this. The Ukrainians are pushing NE the other side of Izyum too. Look out for Russian forces being surrounded in Izyum in next 24/48 hours. https://twitter.com/aggregateosint/status/1515817551149912074

@ThreshedThought: It also appears the Mariupol is going to fall over the same time period - 24/48 hours. But it’s done it’s job - it’s kept the Russians tied up enabling the Ukrainians to stage their counterattack. 

The defenders of Mariupol will be lauded forevermore in Ukraine.

 
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