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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (1 Viewer)

www.politico.com

Russian jet's collision with U.S. drone sparks diplomatic flurry

U.S. summons Russia's ambassador after uncrewed MQ-9 Reaper crashes into the Black Sea.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

The statement added that the episode over the Black Sea also follows “a pattern of dangerous actions” involving U.S. and allied aircraft and Russian planes.

“These aggressive actions by Russian aircrew are dangerous and could lead to miscalculation and unintended escalation,” European Command said.

During a briefing with reporters on Tuesday, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby said this marked the first time one of these aerial intercepts “resulted in a splashing of one of our drones.”
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One Reaper drone costs roughly $14 million.

Gen. Christopher Cavoli, supreme allied commander for Europe, has briefed allies on the episode, according to a NATO official.

A senior diplomat in Eastern Europe, who was granted anonymity due to the sensitivity of the issue, said officials were concerned, “as it shows the aggressiveness of the Russian conduct. … This again shows the importance of the Black Sea and the need to have an approach on it for medium and long term.”
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Hertling: "The fact that it collided, I would put money, I'd give it Vegas odds 60/40, that this was just an over anxious pilot who couldn't control his airplane or just did a dumb thing. I don't believe anybody ordered the pilot to do that. He may have gotten permission to dump fuel and get close. But to actually knock the drone out of the sky? That takes it up a notch."
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Hertling: "When I was commander of US Army Europe, we used to have conferences with our partners at US Air Force Europe. I remember a general officer at US Air Force Europe, not the commander, telling me that one of his big concerns in the area was how unsafe Russian pilots were when they did these intercept missions. He said, "One day we're going to have problems with this and someone is going to get hurt." I'll never forget him saying that and that's directly from the mouth of an F16 pilot."
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thehill.com

Russia’s downing of US drone sparks fears of escalation

Russia’s apparent attack of a U.S. drone in international airspace on Tuesday quickly sparked concerns, spurring anxiety in Washington and drumming up fear across the nation of a wider escalation b…
thehill.com thehill.com

Stephen Twitty, a retired lieutenant general and former deputy commander of U.S. European Command who is now a distinguished fellow with the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA), said the incident can be resolved and it was important that Washington not escalate tensions any further.

“What we cannot do is jump with hotheadedness to take both of our countries into conflict,” Twitty said. “We cannot let the Russians provoke us into doing something irrational.

“This is about more than about the United States — this is about us and 29 other countries,” he continued, and “we need to conduct ourselves in a manner that does not take NATO or the United States to war.”
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www.nytimes.com

Russian Warplane Hits American Drone Over Black Sea, U.S. Says

The incident was the first known physical contact between the two militaries since the war in Ukraine began last year.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

A senior U.S. military official said the MQ-9 took off from its base in Romania on Tuesday morning for a regularly scheduled reconnaissance mission, which usually lasts about nine to 10 hours. While Reapers can carry Hellfire missiles, this aircraft was unarmed, the official said.
Flying at about 25,000 feet, the Reaper’s sophisticated cameras and other sensors could peer into Russian-controlled Crimea while flying in international air space, a typical mission that MQ-9s have been conducting well before the war in Ukraine started, the official said.
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But the surveillance mission on Tuesday quickly took a dangerous turn. Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder, the Pentagon spokesman, said that the Russian Su-27 aircraft were flying near the American Reaper for about 30 to 40 minutes.
The much faster Russian warplanes repeatedly zoomed around the propeller-driven Reaper, dumping fuel on it, apparently in an effort to sully the drone’s cameras or damage its other sensors, the senior military official said.
The incident stunned U.S. military officials watching it via a video feed from the drone to an operations center at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, the military official said. General Ryder said the Defense Department was going through the steps required to declassify the images.
General Ryder declined to discuss any efforts to recover the MQ-9, which went down in waters dominated by the Russian Navy.

David A. Deptula, a retired three-star Air Force general and the dean of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, said unless this particular MQ-9 had a unique sensor onboard, “there is no great loss if the Russians recover it.”
“MQ-9s have been lost over Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria, and parts have certainly been exploited/shared,” he said in an email.
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Philip Breedlove, a retired Air Force general and former supreme allied commander of NATO, said Tuesday that such actions by the Russians are not new, and he wouldn’t rule out that the incident was born from a “stupid mistake.”

“This could be as simple as poor airmanship, poor professionalism,” he said.
If the collision was deliberate, though — which Breedlove emphasized there’s no evidence of so far — then it is significant and indicates that “Russia is trying to change the narrative” by striking a blow on the United States. “That would be concerning,” he added. “That they are so desperate to send that message that they actually strike something American.”
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apnews.com

Poland plans to grant Ukraine's request for fighter jets

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government's increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.
apnews.com apnews.com

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Thursday that Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes in the coming days and the rest need to be checked and would be supplied later.

Duda did not say if other countries would be making the same move, although Slovakia has said it would send its disused MiGs to Ukraine.

On Wednesday, Polish government spokesman Piotr Mueller said some other countries with MiGs also had pledged them to Kyiv, but he did not name them.
 
Chaz McNulty said:
top dog said:
massraider said:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Video of that fighter jet colliding with the drone
Click to expand...
110% Intentional. :mad:
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I know the fighter jet is going to win in most scenarios, but there has to be a solid chance that hitting the drone could cause catastrophic failure in the Russian jet? Or maybe I am completely wrong?
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It was not intentional to hit... if so the Russian pilot is more of a moron than the average Russian moron. He is dumping fuel on it. A collusion while dumping fuel could easily ignite and then not more Russian jet or pilot.
 
Chadstroma said:
Chaz McNulty said:
top dog said:
massraider said:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Video of that fighter jet colliding with the drone
Click to expand...
110% Intentional. :mad:
Click to expand...
I know the fighter jet is going to win in most scenarios, but there has to be a solid chance that hitting the drone could cause catastrophic failure in the Russian jet? Or maybe I am completely wrong?
Click to expand...
It was not intentional to hit... if so the Russian pilot is more of a moron than the average Russian moron. He is dumping fuel on it. A collusion while dumping fuel could easily ignite and then not more Russian jet or pilot.
Click to expand...
Maybe hitting the drone wasn't intentional, but getting that close and trying to down the drone over international waters by dumping fuel on it is 110% intentional and unacceptable.
 
top dog said:
Chadstroma said:
Chaz McNulty said:
top dog said:
massraider said:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Video of that fighter jet colliding with the drone
Click to expand...
110% Intentional. :mad:
Click to expand...
I know the fighter jet is going to win in most scenarios, but there has to be a solid chance that hitting the drone could cause catastrophic failure in the Russian jet? Or maybe I am completely wrong?
Click to expand...
It was not intentional to hit... if so the Russian pilot is more of a moron than the average Russian moron. He is dumping fuel on it. A collusion while dumping fuel could easily ignite and then not more Russian jet or pilot.
Click to expand...
Maybe hitting the drone wasn't intentional, but getting that close and trying to down the drone over international waters by dumping fuel on it is 110% intentional and unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Oh yea, they were trying to down it without shooting at it. Apparently the morons thought that drones didn't have cameras on them? Maybe they thought our drones were like the Russian or Iranian crap they use? I dunno but the Russians are showing themselves to be absolutely incompetent and completely untrustworthy beyond belief. I mean, it isn't news or anything but it makes the Keystone Cops look like they have their crap together.
 

Video appears to show Russian Wagner troops shooting their own comrade, shoving each other into enemy fire in chaotic trench battle​


A solider with Russia's Wagner mercenary group appeared to shoot one of his own comrades in chaotic video of a trench battle in Ukraine.

The video, shared by Ukrainian government advisor Anton Gerashchenko on Tuesday, gives an aerial view of soldiers slowly advancing towards each other through trenches in a battlefield marked by explosions. Gerashchenko said the footage came from Ukraine's 92nd brigade, which is fighting near the eastern city of Bakhmut, a center of months-long intense and bloody combat. Gerashchenko quoted a soldier who sent him the video, saying it shows Ukrainian soldiers retaking a trench from Russian forces. It is not clear when it was filmed.

His post said the Russians were from the Wagner paramilitary group, and that Ukraine successfully pushed them from their positions. The volunteer monitoring grou GeoConfirmed also identified the Russians as being from Wagner, which has taken a leading role in Russia's offensive in Bakhmut.
Click to expand...
 
massraider said:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Thursday that Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes in the coming days and the rest need to be checked and would be supplied later.
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This is probably in retaliation for Poland discovering and dismantling the Russian spy network operating in Poland and spying on supply routes from Poland to Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
 
More information on the Russian spy ring in Poland:

Mr Kaminski said the cell had been preparing "sabotage actions" in Poland. "Evidence indicates that this group monitored railway lines. Their tasks included recognising, monitoring and documenting weapons' transports to Ukraine," Mr Kaminski told a news briefing on Thursday morning. "The suspects were also preparing sabotage actions aimed at paralysing the supply of equipment, weapons and aid to Ukraine."

Six of the suspects have been charged with conducting espionage for Russia and participation in an organised criminal group, after they were detained as part of an operation conducted by Poland's Internal Security Agency (ABW). ABW officers found cameras, electronic equipment and GPS transmitters that were to be mounted on aid transports to Ukraine. The group were also tasked with carrying out propaganda activities to disrupt Polish-Ukrainian relations and incite hostile attitudes towards Poland among Nato, Mr Kaminski said. ABW has evidence the group were paid by Russian intelligence.
 
Don't Toews Me said:
www.nbcnews.com

Russian leadership approved actions of jets that damaged U.S. drone, officials say

One official said he had not gotten indications that the signoff went all the way up to President Putin.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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So the fuel dumping was intentional, and actually hitting the drone was either pilot error or a decision by the pilot.

The Russian jet actually clipping the propeller of the drone — which the U.S. says occurred and Russia denies — was likely not intentional, said the officials, who believe it was pilot error, based on U.S. video of the incident.
Click to expand...
 
fatness said:
massraider said:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Thursday that Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes in the coming days and the rest need to be checked and would be supplied later.
Click to expand...
This is probably in retaliation for Poland discovering and dismantling the Russian spy network operating in Poland and spying on supply routes from Poland to Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
Click to expand...
Not sure how useful they would be but I wonder if they will end up donating their Su-22's too.
 
Chadstroma said:
fatness said:
massraider said:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Thursday that Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes in the coming days and the rest need to be checked and would be supplied later.
Click to expand...
This is probably in retaliation for Poland discovering and dismantling the Russian spy network operating in Poland and spying on supply routes from Poland to Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
Click to expand...
Not sure how useful they would be but I wonder if they will end up donating their Su-22's too.
Click to expand...
Slovakia donating their MiGs as well, I read recently.
 
massraider said:
Chadstroma said:
fatness said:
massraider said:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland’s president says his country plans to give Ukraine a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, becoming the first NATO member country to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Thursday that Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes in the coming days and the rest need to be checked and would be supplied later.
Click to expand...
This is probably in retaliation for Poland discovering and dismantling the Russian spy network operating in Poland and spying on supply routes from Poland to Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
Click to expand...
Not sure how useful they would be but I wonder if they will end up donating their Su-22's too.
Click to expand...
Slovakia donating their MiGs as well, I read recently.
Click to expand...
Yea... 13 (I think) Mig-29's too. I believe that they are all retired stock that are likely to be in disrepair. The Ukrainians have shown great ability to adapt and use what they got though... even if it is just using them for parts they will figure out a way to use them.
How effectively? I don't know. Both sides are not using a ton of fixed wing aircraft because the other side has effective AA umbrellas.
I do wonder though if/when the Ukranians launch a counter offensive and if they can break through again like the last one then they might be able to use some more aircraft as the air defense will either be over run, abandoned or falling back.
Then again, I have seen some anaylst wonder if Ukraines stand in Bakhmut is chewing up the Ukrainian forces as much as the Russian and will leave them unable to carry out an effective counter offensive.
 
A curious situation is developing in the balneological resort town of Goryachy Klyuch in Krasnodar Krai, Russia, between the town's administration and PMC Wagner. The town's administration denied the previously approved request for the group to bury mercenaries killed in Ukraine, claiming that the journalists who come to report on the burial are ruining the image of the resort and its direct leadership. Earlier, Prigozhin published several audio messaging condemning the town administration. And today, GREY ZONE, Prigozhin's mouthpiece Telegram channel posted this video with alleged Wagner mercenaries addressing the town administration. As you can see, they use rather intimidating language.
 
massraider said:
A curious situation is developing in the balneological resort town of Goryachy Klyuch in Krasnodar Krai, Russia, between the town's administration and PMC Wagner. The town's administration denied the previously approved request for the group to bury mercenaries killed in Ukraine, claiming that the journalists who come to report on the burial are ruining the image of the resort and its direct leadership. Earlier, Prigozhin published several audio messaging condemning the town administration. And today, GREY ZONE, Prigozhin's mouthpiece Telegram channel posted this video with alleged Wagner mercenaries addressing the town administration. As you can see, they use rather intimidating language.
Click to expand...
Lately Wagner seems like they're running short on success, ammunition, support, effective PR promotion, and supply of living bodies to shove to the front lines to die.
 
It seems like Russia is not going to stop until Ukraine is crippled to the point when they pull out
it will be decades? of recovery.
 
themeistersinger said:
www.themoscowtimes.com

Wagner Group To Shift Focus From Ukraine War After Military Feud, Heavy Losses – Bloomberg - The Moscow Times

The head of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group is likely to shift his attention away from the war in Ukraine, Bloomberg reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the matter. According to Bloomberg’s sources, Yevgeny Prigozhin plans to turn his focus back to Africa, where his fighters are...
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
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Not a good sign for Russia.
 
themeistersinger said:
www.themoscowtimes.com

Wagner Group To Shift Focus From Ukraine War After Military Feud, Heavy Losses – Bloomberg - The Moscow Times

The head of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group is likely to shift his attention away from the war in Ukraine, Bloomberg reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the matter. According to Bloomberg’s sources, Yevgeny Prigozhin plans to turn his focus back to Africa, where his fighters are...
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
Click to expand...
Why would he be allowed to do that??

Gotta think his risk of dying just shot up if that's true.
 
The Z Machine said:
themeistersinger said:
www.themoscowtimes.com

Wagner Group To Shift Focus From Ukraine War After Military Feud, Heavy Losses – Bloomberg - The Moscow Times

The head of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group is likely to shift his attention away from the war in Ukraine, Bloomberg reported Thursday, citing sources familiar with the matter. According to Bloomberg’s sources, Yevgeny Prigozhin plans to turn his focus back to Africa, where his fighters are...
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
Click to expand...
Why would he be allowed to do that??

Gotta think his risk of dying just shot up if that's true.
Click to expand...
There has been internal tensions for a while with Wagner and the military.

It is hard to tell if it is Putin worried about their growing power or his military brass or both. If I was that dude, I would stay very far away from any windows.
 
The Z Machine said:
Why would he be allowed to do that??

Gotta think his risk of dying just shot up if that's true
Click to expand...
. The alleged shift is believed to be connected to the recent rift between Prigozhin and top military commanders who have sowed doubts with President Vladimir Putin about Wagner’s military capability, Bloomberg reported
 
Lithuiania steps up aid to Ukraine

In recent weeks, a crowdfunding exercise raised $22 million to buy high-tech radars that will provide air defence for Ukrainian citizens under attack from missiles and drones. "You know, our hearts and minds and wallets are with Ukrainians," Lithuania's Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis told the ABC from his office in Vilnius. "It's not just politicians. It's not just the NGOs. It's everybody you meet on the street."
Click to expand...
 
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