Sebowski
Footballguy
I was clearly wrong about Sturridge. Nice buy by Liverpool. Come and get your winnings, Gator.How's 3?That's 7 now. 1 to go
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
- Start date
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
I saw some line that said Atletico put the ball into the 4 times against Real and Barca while those two put the ball into the net twice. Ouch. Hope they can step it up for the Copa del Rey final. Would love to see the special one head back to England after a trophy-less season.Visca El Barcelona! Now go get a defender or two Sandro!
Txns8
Footballguy
Major
Footballguy
thanks for posting 
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Not saying it would've tilted the whole tie, but Barca nabbing Javi Martinez would've made it a very different affair. He is a monster back there.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Wigan is a heavy favorite to be relegated. From Bet365:Wigan -3300
Sunderland +2000
Aston Villas +2800
Sunderland +2000
Aston Villas +2800
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Is this real life?
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I think next year's are pretty bad too.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Please tell me Pinto will be the starting goalie for FCB next year.
Still a big deal. Always nice to win in Madrid. Team can still equal the La Liga points record too, mostly due to the absolute tear they were on prior to Tito's relapse.Well, it was kind of a foregone conclusion.Shouldn't you guys be busy celebrating the club's 22nd La Liga crown?
Wouldn't bother me too much, Pinto has always been solid back there, but they will either stay will Valdes or go with a youngster like Marc-Andre ter Stegen.
The rumored Catalan flag based away kits are sick.
The Gator
Footballguy
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PPO7kK3leso/TZY6UTSvPKI/AAAAAAAAAFM/VjHBf3wqluk/s1600/McSoccer.jpg]Sponsored by McDonald's?Slapdash said:
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Here is how the rest of the league is looking with one matchday left:
Bayern, Dortmund and Leverkusen have clinched Group Stage in the CL for next season.
Spot 4 in the table secures the CL Playoff round and is between Schalke, E. Frankfurt and Freiburg.
Spot 5 is EL playoff round and Spot 6 is EL 3rd round. Along with the three above, Hamburg and Gladbach are battling for those.
4 Schalke 04 15- 7-11 52 56-49 + 75 SC Freiburg 14- 9-10 51 44-38 + 66 Eintracht Frankfurt 14- 8-11 50 47-44 + 3 (promoted last season)7 Hamburger SV 14- 6-13 48 42-52 -108 Borussia Mönchengladbach 12-11-10 47 42-45 - 3Fürth have solidified spot 18 and secured relegation after earning promotion last season. Spot 16 is the Promotion/Relegation Playoff spot and 17 is straight relegation. Düsseldorf, Augsburg and Hoffenheim are in the running.
In BL2 Hertha Berlin and Braunschweig have both secured promotion.
Kaiserslautern have secured the erd spot in the table and will compete in the playoff to earn promotion.
Bayern, Dortmund and Leverkusen have clinched Group Stage in the CL for next season.
Spot 4 in the table secures the CL Playoff round and is between Schalke, E. Frankfurt and Freiburg.
Spot 5 is EL playoff round and Spot 6 is EL 3rd round. Along with the three above, Hamburg and Gladbach are battling for those.
4 Schalke 04 15- 7-11 52 56-49 + 75 SC Freiburg 14- 9-10 51 44-38 + 66 Eintracht Frankfurt 14- 8-11 50 47-44 + 3 (promoted last season)7 Hamburger SV 14- 6-13 48 42-52 -108 Borussia Mönchengladbach 12-11-10 47 42-45 - 3Fürth have solidified spot 18 and secured relegation after earning promotion last season. Spot 16 is the Promotion/Relegation Playoff spot and 17 is straight relegation. Düsseldorf, Augsburg and Hoffenheim are in the running.
Code:
15 Fortuna Düsseldorf 7-9-17 30 39-54 -1516 FC Augsburg 7-9-17 30 30-50 -2017 1899 TSG Hoffenheim 7-7-19 28 40-66 -2618 Greuther Fürth 4-9-20 21 25-57 -32Kaiserslautern have secured the erd spot in the table and will compete in the playoff to earn promotion.
Code:
1 Hertha Berlin 22- 9- 2 75 64-27 +372 Eintracht Braunschweig 19- 9- 4 66 50-32 +183 1. FC Kaiserslautern 15-13- 5 58 54-31 +23The Gator
Footballguy
http://estaticos04.marca.com/imagenes/2012/09/10/en/football/barcelona/1347308122_extras_noticia_foton_7_0.jpg] Just not a fan of red and yellow stripes myself. If that's even what they end up going with.
Can't really do worse than the last couple of years of away kits. The idea of having the Catalan flag as the jersey is really cool though, don't know why that hasn't been more common.
My favorite is still this one: http://www.zonalmarking.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/andres_iniesta_chelsea_barcelona_away_goal.jpg
The Gator
Footballguy
Thought this was interesting;
Falcao to Monaco move explained-
You have probably all already seen that Falcao is destined for Monaco. There were a lot of rumors about a potential move to Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid and others - so why does he end up moving to Monaco?
The answer is because of the complicated third-party ownership involved with Falcao. There was a very similar situation with Hulk when he moved to Zenit.
To explain this, we need to take a step back and first see how third party ownership works. Those in England would have previously seen this topic as it reached prominence when Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano signed for West Ham United. Here were two stars from Argentina signing for a club in London who were struggling to stay in the top flight. The controversy lead to West Ham paying compensation of £18M to Sheffield United, and lead the FA to ban third party ownership.
But third party ownership is still alive and well on the continent. It is most often applied with South American stars making the jump across the Atlantic to Europe. The way it works is that investment groups will purchase the registration rights of an upcoming player. This is sometimes done while the player is at a club, and sometimes as part of a transfer.
For eg. one scenario would be that a 16 year old star in South America would be approached by an agent and asked if he wants backing with marketing and making it big in Europe. These deals usually involve paying the player a better salary, hooking him up with a better agent, better management, sponsorship deals etc. If and when the player agrees, the third party owners will then go to the club he is registered to and negotiate to buy his registration rights - either all of or part of.
The player is then in the hands of the management and third party ownership group, who manage every aspect of his career from that point on. That usually involves paying him a larger salary on top of his club salary, placing him in clubs where he will get more exposure, etc.
The other way third-party ownership happens is that the investment group finances a transfer for a player. For eg. Porto want to sign a player from Brasil but don't have the funds, they would approach an investment group and have them stake 50-60% of the deal in return for the players registration rights.
The investment group make all of this upfront investment with the hope that at some point in the future the player proves himself, becomes a star, and can then exit at a very large valuation.
Some examples: Tevez and Mascherano were placed into West Ham by their investment group as a way of getting them more exposure. It worked out well in both cases as Liverpool purchased Mascherano (buying out the investment group and giving them a good return) and City eventually ended up buying out Tevez - albeit via Manchester United (who never owned the entirety of his transfer rights).
Back to Falcao. He was purchased by a third-party ownership group as part of his transfer to Porto. They bought 55% (likely more) of his transfer rights, supplemented his salary while he was paying at Porto and then moved him to Atletico for the purpose of getting him more exposure (likely with an eye on moving him eventually to Real Madrid). During the time Falcao was there, the investors were supplementing his wages again (infact paying most of them) and working on negotiating his big move which would see them cash out.
Porto's financials show the following for the Falcao transfer:
sale of 60% of the economic rights of the player Bolatti to the entity Natland Financieringsmaatschappij B.V., on July 2009, by the amount of, approximately, 1,500,000 Euro, (transaction perform under the acquisition process of 40% of the registration of Falcao)
There is another section where it is disclosed that they sold another 5% option in Falcao, and another section where it is disclosed that there is an option for a third party to purchase a further 10%.
The same filing shows that Porto only owned 45% of Hulk.
What is more interesting is who is involved in the Falcao ownership. The group is called Doyen Sports and it was founded by Jorge Mendes (most famous as Ronaldo's agent, but an infamous player agent who is involved in a lot of third-party deals) and Peter Kenyon (former Chelsea chairman).
On their website they have a page for Falcao and you can also see the other players listed. Falcao, like Hulk, ended up in a situation where there was so much invested in him that it would take a lot of money for the investors to see a return (known as being highly leveraged). They were paying his salary for a few seasons, had floated Atleti some money to keep them alive (they got some shirt sponsorship in return) and had made the initial investment when he first transferred.
Falcao ends up moving to Atletico in a 40M move - despite Atleti the previous season stating that they had to clear players out because of their 220M euro tax bill with the Spanish government. What this ended up being is a 20 + 20M deal. 20M never gets paid because its just the third-party owners paying themselves, and of the other 20M only 16M is owed by Atleti, who take an option of paying in two 8M installments (they were late on the first one, to the point of Porto suing). End situation is that around 60% of the rights are with the Doylen group. It also appears that while Falcao was at Atletico that Doylen took an option for a larger stake in him since Atleti were late on their payments. Something weird happen which involved Doylen taking a sponsorship. Either way, they had the majority stake and Atletico had no say or control of the player. For all purposes it was nothing more than a loan with Atletico having a small stake in his registration rights.
The president of Atletico Madrid continuously insisted that they own all the rights to Falcao, but this simply isn't true.
Falcao is on a wage of 10M euro per year, and the return the investors wanted is 60M euro in transfer fee. This narrows down the list of potential clubs that can buy you out to very few. Atletico had no say in where Falcao goes, they had an option in the winter transfer window, but that expired. The owners needed their return and they were going to get it one way or the other.
The list can be narrowed down to PSG, Monaco, Real Madrid, Chelsea and City. City aren't making large investments any longer, PSG have their fix of strikers. Of the remaining three, it is apparent that Real Madrid didn't want to pay up the 60M + 50M in contracts for Falcao (for whatever reason). Apparently Chelsea matched the 60M clause but to pay Falcao the 10M per season in wages would involve a total gross salary of 300k+ per week, which just isn't manageable. Chelsea also have the issue of not being allowed to directly purchase a player from a third-party owner (apparently this is what turned ManU off a move) so it would have required a two-step sale with Falcao going to one club outright and then to Chelsea. Apparently with the David Luiz transfer on the same day he moved to Chelsea Benfica bought out the entirety of his rights from third-party owners (so you can summize that Chelsea gave them the money to buy out that deal so that they could purchase 100% of Luiz directly from Benfica, thus avoiding the third-party rule in England).
With all of these factors you end up with only one target: Monaco. They have the 60M to pay out the investors, they have the funds to pay his wages of 10M per year and better yet they have no income tax so they don't have to supplement the gross.
So in the end Falcao is moved around Europe by his investors with the only goal of making a return for them. He has little to no say in his final destination because of a deal he agreed to years ago while he was still in South America.
More links:
Falcao to Monaco move explained-
You have probably all already seen that Falcao is destined for Monaco. There were a lot of rumors about a potential move to Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid and others - so why does he end up moving to Monaco?
The answer is because of the complicated third-party ownership involved with Falcao. There was a very similar situation with Hulk when he moved to Zenit.
To explain this, we need to take a step back and first see how third party ownership works. Those in England would have previously seen this topic as it reached prominence when Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano signed for West Ham United. Here were two stars from Argentina signing for a club in London who were struggling to stay in the top flight. The controversy lead to West Ham paying compensation of £18M to Sheffield United, and lead the FA to ban third party ownership.
But third party ownership is still alive and well on the continent. It is most often applied with South American stars making the jump across the Atlantic to Europe. The way it works is that investment groups will purchase the registration rights of an upcoming player. This is sometimes done while the player is at a club, and sometimes as part of a transfer.
For eg. one scenario would be that a 16 year old star in South America would be approached by an agent and asked if he wants backing with marketing and making it big in Europe. These deals usually involve paying the player a better salary, hooking him up with a better agent, better management, sponsorship deals etc. If and when the player agrees, the third party owners will then go to the club he is registered to and negotiate to buy his registration rights - either all of or part of.
The player is then in the hands of the management and third party ownership group, who manage every aspect of his career from that point on. That usually involves paying him a larger salary on top of his club salary, placing him in clubs where he will get more exposure, etc.
The other way third-party ownership happens is that the investment group finances a transfer for a player. For eg. Porto want to sign a player from Brasil but don't have the funds, they would approach an investment group and have them stake 50-60% of the deal in return for the players registration rights.
The investment group make all of this upfront investment with the hope that at some point in the future the player proves himself, becomes a star, and can then exit at a very large valuation.
Some examples: Tevez and Mascherano were placed into West Ham by their investment group as a way of getting them more exposure. It worked out well in both cases as Liverpool purchased Mascherano (buying out the investment group and giving them a good return) and City eventually ended up buying out Tevez - albeit via Manchester United (who never owned the entirety of his transfer rights).
Back to Falcao. He was purchased by a third-party ownership group as part of his transfer to Porto. They bought 55% (likely more) of his transfer rights, supplemented his salary while he was paying at Porto and then moved him to Atletico for the purpose of getting him more exposure (likely with an eye on moving him eventually to Real Madrid). During the time Falcao was there, the investors were supplementing his wages again (infact paying most of them) and working on negotiating his big move which would see them cash out.
Porto's financials show the following for the Falcao transfer:
sale of 60% of the economic rights of the player Bolatti to the entity Natland Financieringsmaatschappij B.V., on July 2009, by the amount of, approximately, 1,500,000 Euro, (transaction perform under the acquisition process of 40% of the registration of Falcao)
There is another section where it is disclosed that they sold another 5% option in Falcao, and another section where it is disclosed that there is an option for a third party to purchase a further 10%.
The same filing shows that Porto only owned 45% of Hulk.
What is more interesting is who is involved in the Falcao ownership. The group is called Doyen Sports and it was founded by Jorge Mendes (most famous as Ronaldo's agent, but an infamous player agent who is involved in a lot of third-party deals) and Peter Kenyon (former Chelsea chairman).
On their website they have a page for Falcao and you can also see the other players listed. Falcao, like Hulk, ended up in a situation where there was so much invested in him that it would take a lot of money for the investors to see a return (known as being highly leveraged). They were paying his salary for a few seasons, had floated Atleti some money to keep them alive (they got some shirt sponsorship in return) and had made the initial investment when he first transferred.
Falcao ends up moving to Atletico in a 40M move - despite Atleti the previous season stating that they had to clear players out because of their 220M euro tax bill with the Spanish government. What this ended up being is a 20 + 20M deal. 20M never gets paid because its just the third-party owners paying themselves, and of the other 20M only 16M is owed by Atleti, who take an option of paying in two 8M installments (they were late on the first one, to the point of Porto suing). End situation is that around 60% of the rights are with the Doylen group. It also appears that while Falcao was at Atletico that Doylen took an option for a larger stake in him since Atleti were late on their payments. Something weird happen which involved Doylen taking a sponsorship. Either way, they had the majority stake and Atletico had no say or control of the player. For all purposes it was nothing more than a loan with Atletico having a small stake in his registration rights.
The president of Atletico Madrid continuously insisted that they own all the rights to Falcao, but this simply isn't true.
Falcao is on a wage of 10M euro per year, and the return the investors wanted is 60M euro in transfer fee. This narrows down the list of potential clubs that can buy you out to very few. Atletico had no say in where Falcao goes, they had an option in the winter transfer window, but that expired. The owners needed their return and they were going to get it one way or the other.
The list can be narrowed down to PSG, Monaco, Real Madrid, Chelsea and City. City aren't making large investments any longer, PSG have their fix of strikers. Of the remaining three, it is apparent that Real Madrid didn't want to pay up the 60M + 50M in contracts for Falcao (for whatever reason). Apparently Chelsea matched the 60M clause but to pay Falcao the 10M per season in wages would involve a total gross salary of 300k+ per week, which just isn't manageable. Chelsea also have the issue of not being allowed to directly purchase a player from a third-party owner (apparently this is what turned ManU off a move) so it would have required a two-step sale with Falcao going to one club outright and then to Chelsea. Apparently with the David Luiz transfer on the same day he moved to Chelsea Benfica bought out the entirety of his rights from third-party owners (so you can summize that Chelsea gave them the money to buy out that deal so that they could purchase 100% of Luiz directly from Benfica, thus avoiding the third-party rule in England).
With all of these factors you end up with only one target: Monaco. They have the 60M to pay out the investors, they have the funds to pay his wages of 10M per year and better yet they have no income tax so they don't have to supplement the gross.
So in the end Falcao is moved around Europe by his investors with the only goal of making a return for them. He has little to no say in his final destination because of a deal he agreed to years ago while he was still in South America.
More links:
- Do Atletico own Falcao?
- [url-http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/atletico-madrid-its-mad-world.html]http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/atletico-madrid-its-mad-world.html]Swiss Ramble on Atletico Madrid and their financial struggles - "one of the worst run clubs in Europe"
- Porto threaten to report Atletico over late Falcao payments
- Monaco eye Falcao move - "Chelsea’s attempts to sign the former Porto man had been complicated by third-party ownership issues"
- BBC: Does third-party ownership benefit or hinder football?
- Quality Sports Investments - another third-party ownership fund that Kenyon and Mendes were involved with
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Great write-up on the Falcao sitch. I wasn't aware of all that. It'll be interesting to see where he lands. Obviously I hope it all falls apart and he plays on the Atleti CL side next season. If he wants CL exposure and lots of PT, he has it right there. I'm also interested in what happens to Curtuois. Will he play another in red and white? Will he want to go to an English side to get PL experience (but no CL experience)?
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I'm not really sure. I wouldn't expect it before late June at the earliest.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I'll agree with this as long as Uvers keeps Gol TV or the Bundesliga moves too.
Sebowski
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
It was rumored last week even before the FA Cup final, but became reality today. I just can't imagine a team would sack its manager just one year after winning a major title.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKLSPzhCEAAX1y1.jpg:large
Mancini was in an impossible situation. City's major disappointment in Europe probably sealed his fate though.
He plays such negative football, it's tough to root for him really. I mean, if they were playing an open free styling type game and losing, okay, he may get some slack cut, but ffs, he's playing 2 or 3 defensive mf's every big game.
#### City, tbh.
They will have a tough time finding a suitable replacement. Lots of large egos on that team too, and I'm sure they'll bring in at least one or two big names in the transfer market.
Rooney drama again is going to be a nightmare for Moyes. Hopefully they can get it figured out early and not drag it out.
And then Chelski still needs to find a replacement for Rafa. Wish they'd give me a ring. With all that young talent, would be loads of fun to manage. Dump Torres and Lamps (Terry too) and then build it up.
And definitely big props to Lampard for his goals this weekend. Not a huge fan, but pretty remarkable career, and I'm always a fan of someone who does so much with one club and not a gun for hire so to speak.
Speaking of guns for hire....PSG wrapped up their first title since 94??? Wow. And looks like Monaco may be rebuilding a little something special too.
20
He plays such negative football, it's tough to root for him really. I mean, if they were playing an open free styling type game and losing, okay, he may get some slack cut, but ffs, he's playing 2 or 3 defensive mf's every big game.
#### City, tbh.
They will have a tough time finding a suitable replacement. Lots of large egos on that team too, and I'm sure they'll bring in at least one or two big names in the transfer market.
Rooney drama again is going to be a nightmare for Moyes. Hopefully they can get it figured out early and not drag it out.
And then Chelski still needs to find a replacement for Rafa. Wish they'd give me a ring. With all that young talent, would be loads of fun to manage. Dump Torres and Lamps (Terry too) and then build it up.
And definitely big props to Lampard for his goals this weekend. Not a huge fan, but pretty remarkable career, and I'm always a fan of someone who does so much with one club and not a gun for hire so to speak.
Speaking of guns for hire....PSG wrapped up their first title since 94??? Wow. And looks like Monaco may be rebuilding a little something special too.
20
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
It was rumored last week even before the FA Cup final, but became reality today. I just can't imagine a team would sack its manager just one year after winning a major title.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKLSPzhCEAAX1y1.jpg:large
TLEF316
Footballguy
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
I watched the premiere of a show on HBO last night called Family Tree. It's by the group that did Spinal Tap, Best in Show, etc. and stars the Irish cop from Bridesmaids. Anywho, the first time they show Michael Mcean who plays the dad, the first thing I said was "That's a Tottenham mug in front of him". Later on, the star is talking to the camera, and in the picture above him, his dad is now wearing a Tottenham shirt. Towards the end it's revealed that he, his dad, and his best mate are all rabid Spurs fans (and that the main character once got chased by three 8 year old Arsenal fans for wearing his jersey "behind enemy lines"). It was pretty funny, but the funniest thing to me was that I immediately noticed that mug. I can handle that they're Spurs fans. If they had been Chel$ki fans, I'm not sure I could watch it.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
I literally just finished watching this episode not 3 minutes ago...I noticed the Spurs mug straightaway as well
The Hardline
Footballguy
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Well that escalated quickly
The Gator
Footballguy
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Won't be surprised if Martinez ends up at Everton now.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I guess this makes Sunday somewhat interesting. EPL 3rd goes straight to the CL group stage, while 4th gets a playoff with someone like Rubin Kazan or Maccabi Haifa in August. Chelsea is approaching its 70th fixture in the 9 months since the Community Shield on August 12. You really want to avoid an extra trip to Tajikistan if possible.
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