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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

Shay Given :goodposting:

And ya'll are watching a different game than me if you think Wright Phillips is behind Walcott and Lennon in English pecking order. I would say I'm 90% sure SWP will be on the team and I'd take him in a heartbeat over Lennon and Walcott. Also, SWP is 28, something to be said for experience factor.

Another tough decision for Capello will be who to bring as strikers. I know Heskey and Cole have been mentioned earlier, but right now, England has Crouch, Dafoe and Rooney (who I think all three are locks) and Darren Bent is making a strong push to get a spot.

 
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
:goodposting: Yes, England has looked pretty ordinary in qualifying. They don't have the attacking talent huh? O.k. You qualify this statement how? France has talent sure. They are also an elite country with WC championship. I have no idea what that has to do with anything else though.As an aside, England is third favorite to win the WC,so I guess I'm out on an island here saying they have a great side.I enjoy talking about the English side but I'll also listen and talk USMNT. I'm just not as fanatical about them as the likes of LHucks and Andy B. I'd love some more discussion on the German side too, or Italy, Brazil, Argentina - pretty sure I had a post on here with the dilemma MAradonna will ahve will the likes of Tevez/Arguero and Messi all essentially similar players.
 
Shay Given :thumbup:And ya'll are watching a different game than me if you think Wright Phillips is behind Walcott and Lennon in English pecking order. I would say I'm 90% sure SWP will be on the team and I'd take him in a heartbeat over Lennon and Walcott. Also, SWP is 28, something to be said for experience factor.Another tough decision for Capello will be who to bring as strikers. I know Heskey and Cole have been mentioned earlier, but right now, England has Crouch, Dafoe and Rooney (who I think all three are locks) and Darren Bent is making a strong push to get a spot.
Sometimes I think Guru is my alias as we are usually on the same page here. :lmao:
 
Steve Tasker said:
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.

International

United States - everyone

Argentina - Sebowski

Bolivia - Sebowski

Brazil - Desert Power, Future Mrs. Z Machine (FMZM)

Canada - Polsonov?

England - LHUCKS, SmoovySmoov, AAABatteries

Germany - Mjolnirs, eagles2007, editor47

Italy - Steve Tasker

Netherlands - MrPhoenix, AAABatteries

Portugal - Gator

Serbia - Vipers

Spain - Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Z Machine

Venezuela - FMZM

England

EPL

Arsenal - Steve Tasker, Sebowski, FMZM, Brewer, Vipers

Chelsea - Native (pre-Abramovich)

Everton - Senor Schmutzig, eagles2007

Fulham - Christo

Liverpool - MrPhoenix, Bentley, Kendall, Z Machine, SmoovySmoov, editor47, Gator

Manchester City - editor47

Manchester United - B Maverick, AAABatteries, JuniorNB

Championship

Ipswich Town - Texas Football

Newcastle - Polsonov

Queen's Park Rangers - Christo

Spain

Atletico Madrid - Z Machine

Barcelona - Desert Power, Sebowski, Kansas Comet

Real Madrid - FMZM

Sevilla - Kansas Comet

Italy

Udinese - eagles2007

Germany

Bayern Munchen - Mjolnirs

Borussia Dortmund - eagles2007, editor47

VfL Wolfsburg - SmoovySmoov

Scotland

Celtic - walnutz

Rangers - Senor Schmutzig

USA

MLS

Chicago Fire - Senor Schmutzig, Vipers

DC United - walnutz

LA Galaxy - Kansas Comet, Z Machine

New England Revolution - andy b

New York Red Bulls - JuniorNB

Philadelphia Union - FMZM, eagles2007, editor47

Seattle Sounders - Vipers, SmoovySmoov

Toronto FC - Steve Tasker

USL First Division

Carolina Railhawks - walnutz

Charleston Battery - Mjolnirs, walnutz

WPS

FC Sky Blue - JuniorNB

St. Louis Athletica - walnutz

Argentina

Boca Juniors - Steve Tasker, walnutz

Newell's Old Boys - Z Machine

River Plate - FMZM

Mexico

Chivas Guadalajara - Z Machine

UNAM Pumas - FMZM
Bump for any new folks
I should be down for Liverpool of course. And hating Chelski. I guess the Revs as I live like 30 mins from Foxboro. Ireland for my family. Im half German but I can't root for Sprockets (lothar fan).
ST - Pretty sure Cletus Maximus is a fellow Chelsea supporter.
 
did I post my teams?

Serie A: Inter (although I'm loving watching Milan play this year... sacrilege)

EPL: Big 4, plus Fulham/Hull/Villa/Any team with an American

Argentina: Boca (part-time)

MLS: BullStarMetroReds :goodposting:

USAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSAUSA

But I'll give you my standard answer to my wife whenever she asks "how much soccer can you watch?"... All of it.

 
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
:moneybag: Yes, England has looked pretty ordinary in qualifying. They don't have the attacking talent huh? O.k. You qualify this statement how? France has talent sure. They are also an elite country with WC championship. I have no idea what that has to do with anything else though.As an aside, England is third favorite to win the WC,so I guess I'm out on an island here saying they have a great side.I enjoy talking about the English side but I'll also listen and talk USMNT. I'm just not as fanatical about them as the likes of LHucks and Andy B. I'd love some more discussion on the German side too, or Italy, Brazil, Argentina - pretty sure I had a post on here with the dilemma MAradonna will ahve will the likes of Tevez/Arguero and Messi all essentially similar players.
Post your thoughts on England's lineup. There's definitely talent on the squad, but there are some weaknesses. In qualifying, they played the 3 pretty terrible teams: Andorra, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Sure every group had its weaklings, but the other 2 teams (Croatia and Ukraine) are both waning in their power. Their stats actually look good from qualifying, with a ton of goals scored and a great goal differential. Most of those goals came against the minnows though. Don't get me wrong, Capello has them playing well, but that doesn't mean that they have the mettle to step up their game to the next level. They didn't qualify for the EUROs in 2008, so we can't judge their play against top-flight competition. The best team they've played in recent years has been Ukraine, and in a home/home series, they would have lost out to them on away goals. That's not persuasive to me.I think that England's players are pretty overrated. Rooney, Terry, and Lampard being the exceptions. These three are truly world-class players. Gerrard is overrated, Walcott has shown flashes but isn't there yet. Defoe can score buckets against shoddy D but disappears quite often, Ashley Cole is a good player and actually isn't overrated but that's only because he's an ####### and no one likes him. Becks is ancient and can't even run anymore, and while I like Joe Cole, his potential has always been greater than his performance.Look, England has a quality squad with a few bright spots. However, these bright spots don't make up for the mid-level talent they have playing the other positions. There's a reason that the in the EPL the best players aren't English.
 
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.

 
Desert_Power said:
PIK95 said:
Very happy with the US draw. :suds:

Will be even happier when we beat England. :lmao:
We are gonna get SMOKED by England, but we should still advance at least. Could any of our starters outside of keeper even start for them? Honestly? I think Spain or England wins it all. I wanna see the final rosters first before I predict though.
That isn't really the metric to use when deciding whether we have a chance or not. Most of our players couldn't start for Spain or Brazil, but we obviously have the squad to play with and beat those teams which are much better than England.
I was thinking more about this. So we are Valparaíso to Englands Kansas? I would love to see us win and win it all even but It's a VERY long shot imo.
I don't disagree that us winning is a bit of a long shot. I was just saying that us getting "smoked" is very unlikely as well. We would be lucky for a draw against England and I don't think I would but any money against us losing by a goal but that isn't getting "smoked".
 
Steve Tasker said:
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.

International

United States - everyone

Argentina - Sebowski

Bolivia - Sebowski

Brazil - Desert Power, Future Mrs. Z Machine (FMZM)

Canada - Polsonov?

England - LHUCKS, SmoovySmoov, AAABatteries

Germany - Mjolnirs, eagles2007, editor47

Italy - Steve Tasker

Netherlands - MrPhoenix, AAABatteries

Portugal - Gator

Serbia - Vipers

Spain - Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Z Machine

Venezuela - FMZM

England

EPL

Arsenal - Steve Tasker, Sebowski, FMZM, Brewer, Vipers

Chelsea - Native (pre-Abramovich)

Everton - Senor Schmutzig, eagles2007

Fulham - Christo

Liverpool - MrPhoenix, Bentley, Kendall, Z Machine, SmoovySmoov, editor47, Gator

Manchester City - editor47

Manchester United - B Maverick, AAABatteries, JuniorNB

Championship

Ipswich Town - Texas Football

Newcastle - Polsonov

Queen's Park Rangers - Christo

Spain

Atletico Madrid - Z Machine

Barcelona - Desert Power, Sebowski, Kansas Comet

Real Madrid - FMZM

Sevilla - Kansas Comet

Italy

Udinese - eagles2007

Germany

Bayern Munchen - Mjolnirs

Borussia Dortmund - eagles2007, editor47

VfL Wolfsburg - SmoovySmoov

Scotland

Celtic - walnutz

Rangers - Senor Schmutzig

USA

MLS

Chicago Fire - Senor Schmutzig, Vipers

DC United - walnutz

LA Galaxy - Kansas Comet, Z Machine

New England Revolution - andy b

New York Red Bulls - JuniorNB

Philadelphia Union - FMZM, eagles2007, editor47

Seattle Sounders - Vipers, SmoovySmoov

Toronto FC - Steve Tasker

USL First Division

Carolina Railhawks - walnutz

Charleston Battery - Mjolnirs, walnutz

WPS

FC Sky Blue - JuniorNB

St. Louis Athletica - walnutz

Argentina

Boca Juniors - Steve Tasker, walnutz

Newell's Old Boys - Z Machine

River Plate - FMZM

Mexico

Chivas Guadalajara - Z Machine

UNAM Pumas - FMZM
Bump for any new folks
I should be down for Liverpool of course. And hating Chelski. I guess the Revs as I live like 30 mins from Foxboro. Ireland for my family. Im half German but I can't root for Sprockets (lothar fan).
Put me down as a fan of the Charleston Battery too. Been going to games since I was in elementary school. Shame that they are USL-2 now. :thumbup:
 
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.

You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
:lmao: Yes, England has looked pretty ordinary in qualifying. They don't have the attacking talent huh? O.k. You qualify this statement how?

France has talent sure. They are also an elite country with WC championship. I have no idea what that has to do with anything else though.

As an aside, England is third favorite to win the WC,so I guess I'm out on an island here saying they have a great side.

I enjoy talking about the English side but I'll also listen and talk USMNT. I'm just not as fanatical about them as the likes of LHucks and Andy B. I'd love some more discussion on the German side too, or Italy, Brazil, Argentina - pretty sure I had a post on here with the dilemma MAradonna will ahve will the likes of Tevez/Arguero and Messi all essentially similar players.
Post your thoughts on England's lineup. There's definitely talent on the squad, but there are some weaknesses. In qualifying, they played the 3 pretty terrible teams: Andorra, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Sure every group had its weaklings, but the other 2 teams (Croatia and Ukraine) are both waning in their power. Their stats actually look good from qualifying, with a ton of goals scored and a great goal differential. Most of those goals came against the minnows though. Don't get me wrong, Capello has them playing well, but that doesn't mean that they have the mettle to step up their game to the next level. They didn't qualify for the EUROs in 2008, so we can't judge their play against top-flight competition. The best team they've played in recent years has been Ukraine, and in a home/home series, they would have lost out to them on away goals. That's not persuasive to me.

I think that England's players are pretty overrated. Rooney, Terry, and Lampard being the exceptions. These three are truly world-class players. Gerrard is overrated, Walcott has shown flashes but isn't there yet. Defoe can score buckets against shoddy D but disappears quite often, Ashley Cole is a good player and actually isn't overrated but that's only because he's an ####### and no one likes him. Becks is ancient and can't even run anymore, and while I like Joe Cole, his potential has always been greater than his performance.

Look, England has a quality squad with a few bright spots. However, these bright spots don't make up for the mid-level talent they have playing the other positions. There's a reason that the in the EPL the best players aren't English.
No Rio? Garrard... over-rated? Mebbe- I love the guy on the field, but without Alonso behind him, he's not quite as dominant IMO. Also, he and Lampard have never really figured out how to play together for England- both their games end up diminished whenever I see them together. If anything, Lampard has been a worse national teamer than Garrard. I'm not quite as negative on the squad as Z- the only real hole I see is at GK, where they've been pretty inconsistent since Seaman (who I never even thought was that great... especially with that horrible pony tail). But I still think they're a team- like Holland- that has the depth and more than enough talent to make a run deep into the WC- like Finals deep.

I've seen a bunch of France games over the last couple of years- yeah, they've got some quality guys that you've mentioned (positionally- Evra, at the top of the list IMO) but they have underwhelmed me every time as a team. And if not for the Hand of Henry- they might not even be here. That said, as you say- they've got the talent to also make a serious run, like England and Holland. I just haven't seen them play as well as the other two teams in the last couple of years.

 
Man I wish we had Davies and a 100 percent Gooch for this cup...damn.
:goodposting: Those two guys makes the US- dare I say it- a dangerous team. Without them, the US become (or have become) pretty toothless, LD aside. Confed Cup- LD, Davies and Gooch were monsters and the leading reasons the US succeeded there. Without 2 of the 3, not looking as rosey.
 
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.
Forgot to mention a negative on the Oliver kid... cramped out of the game before the 70 min mark- not a good sign of his fitness, but lots of possible reasons for that besides just being a lazy *******.
 
Man I wish we had Davies and a 100 percent Gooch for this cup...damn.
:goodposting: Those two guys makes the US- dare I say it- a dangerous team. Without them, the US become (or have become) pretty toothless, LD aside. Confed Cup- LD, Davies and Gooch were monsters and the leading reasons the US succeeded there. Without 2 of the 3, not looking as rosey.
:thumbup: With Davies and Gooch I think we have a REAL shot at taking down England and possibly Germany, without them I just don't see it. MAYBE Dempsey up top can match Davies' overall effectiveness, but there is NOBODY that matches Gooch's physical style of play when he is on his game. He would be vital to a legitimate chance versus the Germans in particular.
 
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.
Forgot to mention a negative on the Oliver kid... cramped out of the game before the 70 min mark- not a good sign of his fitness, but lots of possible reasons for that besides just being a lazy *******.
why was the whole roster different than the recent U-16 world cup squad? I realize that these kids are a bit older, but are NONE of the U-16's good enough to play up a year? (or does US soccer just prefer to keep them together?)
 
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.
Forgot to mention a negative on the Oliver kid... cramped out of the game before the 70 min mark- not a good sign of his fitness, but lots of possible reasons for that besides just being a lazy *******.
why was the whole roster different than the recent U-16 world cup squad? I realize that these kids are a bit older, but are NONE of the U-16's good enough to play up a year? (or does US soccer just prefer to keep them together?)
:fishing: Announcers made some mention that the coach was looking at players outside of Bradenton- maybe with these games as friendlies, it's a chance to cast a wider net?

fwiw- US is playing Brazil and, IIRC, Netherlands over the next few days. All games at 9:00 Eastern and on FSC.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.

You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
:rolleyes: Yes, England has looked pretty ordinary in qualifying. They don't have the attacking talent huh? O.k. You qualify this statement how?

France has talent sure. They are also an elite country with WC championship. I have no idea what that has to do with anything else though.

As an aside, England is third favorite to win the WC,so I guess I'm out on an island here saying they have a great side.

I enjoy talking about the English side but I'll also listen and talk USMNT. I'm just not as fanatical about them as the likes of LHucks and Andy B. I'd love some more discussion on the German side too, or Italy, Brazil, Argentina - pretty sure I had a post on here with the dilemma MAradonna will ahve will the likes of Tevez/Arguero and Messi all essentially similar players.
Post your thoughts on England's lineup. There's definitely talent on the squad, but there are some weaknesses. I think that England's players are pretty overrated. Rooney, Terry, and Lampard being the exceptions. These three are truly world-class players. Gerrard is overrated, Walcott has shown flashes but isn't there yet. Defoe can score buckets against shoddy D but disappears quite often, Ashley Cole is a good player and actually isn't overrated but that's only because he's an ####### and no one likes him. Becks is ancient and can't even run anymore, and while I like Joe Cole, his potential has always been greater than his performance.
:bye: Sniffs bait, swims away.
 
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.
Forgot to mention a negative on the Oliver kid... cramped out of the game before the 70 min mark- not a good sign of his fitness, but lots of possible reasons for that besides just being a lazy *******.
why was the whole roster different than the recent U-16 world cup squad? I realize that these kids are a bit older, but are NONE of the U-16's good enough to play up a year? (or does US soccer just prefer to keep them together?)
:rolleyes: Announcers made some mention that the coach was looking at players outside of Bradenton- maybe with these games as friendlies, it's a chance to cast a wider net?

fwiw- US is playing Brazil and, IIRC, Netherlands over the next few days. All games at 9:00 Eastern and on FSC.
Wait a sec... the article I linked said "The new cycle of players for the U.S. Under-17 Men’s National Team played their first international game at this level"... I think you might be thinking about the previous U-17s, not U-16?
 
Well, make sure you put me down for these teams:

USA

Hull City (gotta love a Bengal-themed team, no? Okay yeah I'm just happy they aren't completely doomed just yet)

Oh and of course: Anybody playing Mexico.

-QG

 
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
I'm only talking about it cause people are talking about SWP. I get #### on in here (and possibly rightfully so) often because I've called England overrated for a long time now. I STILL think they're overrated.Not sure if I qualify as an EPL fanboy, but I "watch too much of those games" because they're basically the only league that's on TV here except for an occasional Italian/MLS/Argentinian/Spanish game. I'd LOVE to watch the Spanish games, but with 1 game on per week here, it's tough to really get into it and follow a team. If I'd spent time in Spain like you or Desert Power or my real-life Valencia fan friends who studied abroad there, I'd make an effort to watch games online. I have no favorite Spanish team - it'd be different if I did, but having so few games televised makes it difficult.
Id generally agree with you Z given England's poor tournament play history. That said, the wildcard on this years team has to be Jermain Defoe. Hes been having a tremendous year both for England and Tottenham. If he brings his "A" game to South Africa, he gives England a legitimate foil to Wayne Rooney up front - something thats been sorely lacking during the failed experiments with Heskey, Crouch, Walcott, etc. That said, I agree that Id rather be playing England than Spain, Brazil, Netherlands, Argentina and Italy among the top seeds.
 
Why all this talk about the English national team? They'll win the group, get past the first knockout game and lose in the quarterfinals like usual. They don't have the attacking talent to push all the way through and they don't have the drive that other teams have. Honestly, I think that France has as much talent this year as England, and France is in a down year.You EPL fanboys watch too much of those games and don't see any of the rest of the players in the world. Furthermore, you see some elite talents play in the EPL which don't wear the English uni, and that colors your judgment about the talent that England (the country) has.
I'm only talking about it cause people are talking about SWP. I get #### on in here (and possibly rightfully so) often because I've called England overrated for a long time now. I STILL think they're overrated.Not sure if I qualify as an EPL fanboy, but I "watch too much of those games" because they're basically the only league that's on TV here except for an occasional Italian/MLS/Argentinian/Spanish game. I'd LOVE to watch the Spanish games, but with 1 game on per week here, it's tough to really get into it and follow a team. If I'd spent time in Spain like you or Desert Power or my real-life Valencia fan friends who studied abroad there, I'd make an effort to watch games online. I have no favorite Spanish team - it'd be different if I did, but having so few games televised makes it difficult.
Id generally agree with you Z given England's poor tournament play history. That said, the wildcard on this years team has to be Jermain Defoe. Hes been having a tremendous year both for England and Tottenham. If he brings his "A" game to South Africa, he gives England a legitimate foil to Wayne Rooney up front - something thats been sorely lacking during the failed experiments with Heskey, Crouch, Walcott, etc. That said, I agree that Id rather be playing England than Spain, Brazil, Netherlands, Argentina and Italy among the top seeds.
England has also added a quality coach that is getting the best out of the players.
 
caught the last 20 minutes of the U17s vs Brazil last night... 1-1, but US looked genuinely outclassed until a late equaliser. The #11 kid was again playing on another level (with his dribbling). #10 and #7 got subbed the minute I started watching. 10's replacement, #20, had a great feed on the winning goal to #15 who showed flashes- big kid. I'll try and come back with the names.

 
El Floppo said:
Caught the U-17s play and lose 2-1 against Portugal last night. They dominated much of the possession, but lacked the class to create many opportunities or finish the ones they did.

3 players caught my eye... 4 if I count the GK.

11-Alfred Koroma... big, speedy and strong lefty MF/Forward. Dribbled past multiple Portuguese defenders repeatedly, but definitely too much dribble-often taking the ball into multiple defenders. However, prefer seeing that than not trying at this point- he can always learn to be more disciplined as a pro. Missed a sitter in front of goal on his non-dominant right foot. Badly. Obviously needs to develop his right, which was non-existent on the night- and some discipline on the ball. also ran out of steam in the last 15- but the kid showed some real star capability and is definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

10-Irvin Gijon... a true number 10, very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, good tactical sense of when to dribble when to pass. On the negative side- shanked a ton of passes, giving away crucial possession in often dangerous spots (lots of attempted square balls across the field easily intercepted and turned into quick counters), also lacked an extra gear and ability in the air.

7-Andrew Oliver... Played on the opposite flank MF from Koroma (they switched it up occasionally). I was really impressed with this kid- kinda similar to Holden: deceptively fast, attacked players successfully all game, great in the air, strong on the tackle, good tactical sense of when and where to release the ball- and good on the cross. More disciplined than Koroma, but clearly not as dominant or game-changing (although he created a number of opportunities with fantastic runs down the wing and either bringing the ball across himself and laying it off, or crossing)... not as big or fast as koroma, so that may change in time.

1-Fernando Pina... hard to get too excited about GKs for the US, as they're a dime a dozen really. But this kid made some big-time saves in the 2nd half to keep the game close (despite the US controlling play- Portugal put numbers back and relied on the counter all game).

Almost...

8-Tarik Salkicic... Played a holding MF role, or what we used to call a sweeper MF role in a 3-5-2... maybe a center back... not sure. Big, strong and quite good on the ball and defending it. played it quickly using the players around him and was also the only guy capable of hitting quality long balls into space.

3-Marc Pelosi... captain, outside left back. pretty good ball skills, especially for a defender at that age, and very calm with it. Ok on the tackle and in the air.
Im was intrigued by Irvin Gijon and did some research on him and hes only 5 ft 5 and 140 pounds!
 
El Floppo said:
Post your thoughts on England's lineup. There's definitely talent on the squad, but there are some weaknesses.

In qualifying, they played the 3 pretty terrible teams: Andorra, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Sure every group had its weaklings, but the other 2 teams (Croatia and Ukraine) are both waning in their power. Their stats actually look good from qualifying, with a ton of goals scored and a great goal differential. Most of those goals came against the minnows though. Don't get me wrong, Capello has them playing well, but that doesn't mean that they have the mettle to step up their game to the next level. They didn't qualify for the EUROs in 2008, so we can't judge their play against top-flight competition. The best team they've played in recent years has been Ukraine, and in a home/home series, they would have lost out to them on away goals. That's not persuasive to me.

I think that England's players are pretty overrated. Rooney, Terry, and Lampard being the exceptions. These three are truly world-class players. Gerrard is overrated, Walcott has shown flashes but isn't there yet. Defoe can score buckets against shoddy D but disappears quite often, Ashley Cole is a good player and actually isn't overrated but that's only because he's an ####### and no one likes him. Becks is ancient and can't even run anymore, and while I like Joe Cole, his potential has always been greater than his performance.

Look, England has a quality squad with a few bright spots. However, these bright spots don't make up for the mid-level talent they have playing the other positions. There's a reason that the in the EPL the best players aren't English.
No Rio? Garrard... over-rated? Mebbe- I love the guy on the field, but without Alonso behind him, he's not quite as dominant IMO. Also, he and Lampard have never really figured out how to play together for England- both their games end up diminished whenever I see them together. If anything, Lampard has been a worse national teamer than Garrard. I'm not quite as negative on the squad as Z- the only real hole I see is at GK, where they've been pretty inconsistent since Seaman (who I never even thought was that great... especially with that horrible pony tail). But I still think they're a team- like Holland- that has the depth and more than enough talent to make a run deep into the WC- like Finals deep.

I've seen a bunch of France games over the last couple of years- yeah, they've got some quality guys that you've mentioned (positionally- Evra, at the top of the list IMO) but they have underwhelmed me every time as a team. And if not for the Hand of Henry- they might not even be here. That said, as you say- they've got the talent to also make a serious run, like England and Holland. I just haven't seen them play as well as the other two teams in the last couple of years.
In years past, England often played down to their competition - as witnessed by their failure to qualify for Euro2008.However, since Capello has taken over there has been a new grit and determination with the English national team and they have certainly responded.

Not a Liverpool fan, but I can't see how you can say Gerrard is overrated. Guy is a field general and very solid in both the attack and buildup. Has he had a down 2009? sure, but he's also been hampered by a groin injury most of the year,as well as the departure of some world class talent around him. If he's at full health, he'll be surrounded by great talent again and I think he'll show his worth.

England's defense:

Rio/Terry/Glenn Johnson, Ashley Cole - these should be your likely starters as they make the most sense to me. In reserve, England has Lescott, Wayne Bridge, and depending on fitness/injuries probably Ledley King/Wes Brown/Phil JAgielka....That's a pretty solid defense. They may lack a bit on the wings should Johnson and/or Cole get dinged, but that central defense is terrific.

Midfield:

Lampard/Gerrard/Gareth Barry are locks. I'd say Beckham is on the team too. Probably Milner too. They may have a tough choice between the speedy wing midfielders, but for my money, SWP is a lock. Walcott at only 20, probably needs to wait his turn, I think Capello will opt for experience. I think Lennon also makes the team. Depending on the opposition/game situation, this will probably be where Capello need pay the closest attention. But I think against all but the highest of competition, the England midfield controls play.

On attack, Rooney of course, but Crouch is a terrific option. Look at what Spurs have done this year since they sat Keene and gave Crouch full play. Keane is Rooney in 7 years. Still all the grit and determination in the world, but a half step slower, a half reaction second off...just not as god as he was in early-mid 20's. Crouch gives everyone matchup problems, and often they need dedicate more than one defender on set pieces and Crouch is great at flicking it on with the head. Capello has a choice of Defoe, Bent, Heskey, Agblonhor, Carlton Cole, among others. That's a difficult choice to narrow down, but I'd go with Defoe and Carlton Cole. Defoe offers plenty of speed and the ability to create for himself and others (something Agblonhor seems to lack at times). Cole is a younger, faster Heskey, maybe not quite as strong, but still pretty tough.

All in all, I think this is a very solid England side, as talented as they come. They may lack the spectacular likes of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Pato, Diego, etc....But they will be a tough team to face nonetheless.

And of course the black hole with this team is at goal. There is no Buffon, Julio Cesar, Iker Casillas back there. Could be the Achilles heal of this team should it come down to penalties....well that and John Terry :thumbdown:

 
Shay Given :thumbdown:And ya'll are watching a different game than me if you think Wright Phillips is behind Walcott and Lennon in English pecking order. I would say I'm 90% sure SWP will be on the team and I'd take him in a heartbeat over Lennon and Walcott. Also, SWP is 28, something to be said for experience factor.Another tough decision for Capello will be who to bring as strikers. I know Heskey and Cole have been mentioned earlier, but right now, England has Crouch, Dafoe and Rooney (who I think all three are locks) and Darren Bent is making a strong push to get a spot.
He's clearly not behind Walcott and Lennon in the pecking order...otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.Experience factor aside, I can't even fathom how you could say with complete certainty that he's a better player than Aaron Lennon or Theo Walcott. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one, because there's no point in arguing.I will say this though - I'll be pretty happy if SWP is in lineup on June 12th in Rustenburg...I'd rather the US face him than the others mentioned.I'd personally rank them Lennon, Ashley Young, Theo Walcott, SWP when healthy. As much as I hate Spurs, there's an air about Lennon whenever he gets the ball. He always feels to me like he's a threat to do something magical. I can't remember EVER thinking that about SWP.
 
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I'd personally rank them Lennon, Ashley Young, Theo Walcott, SWP when healthy. As much as I hate Spurs, there's an air about Lennon whenever he gets the ball. He always feels to me like he's a threat to do something magical. I can't remember EVER thinking that about SWP.
He just set up a goal for Defoe...
 
Everton fans>how secure is David Moyes' job? I've always liked the guy a lot.
From one of my posts a week or so ago:
My Blues are heading down fast and I don't see the bottom. Not good. Moyes came out this week and mentioned that he doesn't think he is getting the support that he needs to keep Everton at the top of the EPL. With a failed stadium deal last week, it doesn't look like things are going to get any better in the near future either.
I think the possibility is Moyes leaving Everton rather than the other way around. He has continually done more with less and if doesn't see the long term objectives of the higher-ups being able to match his own (ability to compete with the big-4 when it comes to $$$ and transfers), I can see him leaving. He's not saying that in public of course, but that's the general consensus.There was high hopes for a new stadium but that was shot down by the British government. There is talk of sharing a new stadium with Liverpool but that would be even further off.

Moyes has always been able to work with the players he has had but this year, there are just too many gaps.

 
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Howard saves the PK at time! Holy crap!

ETA: well damn close to time, they are 7 minutes into stoppage time

 
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What a great game, regardless of who you were cheering for....Everton down 2-0 in the 77th, come back to tie it....Tim Howard with the stunning PK save 6 minutes into stoppage time to deny Spurs the 3 points....doesn't get much better than that.

 
In years past, England often played down to their competition - as witnessed by their failure to qualify for Euro2008.However, since Capello has taken over there has been a new grit and determination with the English national team and they have certainly responded.Not a Liverpool fan, but I can't see how you can say Gerrard is overrated. Guy is a field general and very solid in both the attack and buildup. Has he had a down 2009? sure, but he's also been hampered by a groin injury most of the year,as well as the departure of some world class talent around him. If he's at full health, he'll be surrounded by great talent again and I think he'll show his worth.England's defense:Rio/Terry/Glenn Johnson, Ashley Cole - these should be your likely starters as they make the most sense to me. In reserve, England has Lescott, Wayne Bridge, and depending on fitness/injuries probably Ledley King/Wes Brown/Phil JAgielka....That's a pretty solid defense. They may lack a bit on the wings should Johnson and/or Cole get dinged, but that central defense is terrific.Midfield:Lampard/Gerrard/Gareth Barry are locks. I'd say Beckham is on the team too. Probably Milner too. They may have a tough choice between the speedy wing midfielders, but for my money, SWP is a lock. Walcott at only 20, probably needs to wait his turn, I think Capello will opt for experience. I think Lennon also makes the team. Depending on the opposition/game situation, this will probably be where Capello need pay the closest attention. But I think against all but the highest of competition, the England midfield controls play.On attack, Rooney of course, but Crouch is a terrific option. Look at what Spurs have done this year since they sat Keene and gave Crouch full play. Keane is Rooney in 7 years. Still all the grit and determination in the world, but a half step slower, a half reaction second off...just not as god as he was in early-mid 20's. Crouch gives everyone matchup problems, and often they need dedicate more than one defender on set pieces and Crouch is great at flicking it on with the head. Capello has a choice of Defoe, Bent, Heskey, Agblonhor, Carlton Cole, among others. That's a difficult choice to narrow down, but I'd go with Defoe and Carlton Cole. Defoe offers plenty of speed and the ability to create for himself and others (something Agblonhor seems to lack at times). Cole is a younger, faster Heskey, maybe not quite as strong, but still pretty tough. All in all, I think this is a very solid England side, as talented as they come. They may lack the spectacular likes of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Pato, Diego, etc....But they will be a tough team to face nonetheless.And of course the black hole with this team is at goal. There is no Buffon, Julio Cesar, Iker Casillas back there. Could be the Achilles heal of this team should it come down to penalties....well that and John Terry :wub:
I totally agree about Capello. They are a different team with him there and it shows. He's been great.BUT, back to my original point of having some great players with a lot of overrated players. On defense: Rio Ferdinand is a very good player, but IMO he's not quite world class. The same goes for Ashley Cole. John Terry is on another level though and in his case it's not football skills, but football smarts. I've seen Terry absolutely shut opposing players and entire sections of field down. That comes from understanding the tactics and tendencies of the opposition. I haven't' seen the same from Ferdinand or Cole. Johnson is by definition mediocre, and is a poor replacement for Neville IMO.Looking at the midfield: Personally, I prefer Walcott over SWP simply due to upside and potential. Neither are world beaters right now. It's possible that Walcott may become a world class player in the future, but he's not there yet. I've seen him absolutely disappear from games. Both of these guys can contribute, but both can also just take up space and not do much. You can throw Joe Cole into that mix of disappearing players when he doesn't create enough space to cross the ball (as I've seen happen against good competition). Gareth Barry is a solid player, but not outstanding as a central midfielder or defensive midfield counterpart to Gerrard's attacking style. Furthermore, I don't like him on the left, as I'd prefer him in the middle, but Lampard and Gerrard are there.Now on to Gerrard. My opinion of him used to be a lot higher. That was when he had Xabi playing next to him. Since then he hasn't looked to be in the same class as other top-flight central midfielders with an attacking bent. I'm not saying Xabi's world class either (I don't think he is) but they played exceptionally together at 'pool. I haven't seen the same connection with Lampard, and honestly, I don't think it's Lampard's fault. These two should be able to dominate the central part of the pitch together, but while watching England play, that doesn't happen as often as I would think. Furthermore, I don't think Gerrard makes the players around him better and doesn't get the wings involved as I'd like. Look I'm a Liverpool fan, and if you would have asked me a year or more agao, I would have said absolutely that Gerrard is world class, but now... he's looked ordinary.On to the strikers. While I'm not a huge Rooney fan, the guy's got immense talent, an unparalleled work rate, and tons of grit. He's a great asset to the squad. Now the other strikers on the team... not so much. Every single one of them has some (or many) issues and they will likely be rotated through the tournament for matchup reasons. IMO they desperately need a big, strong finisher like Drogba or Ibra.As you all have pointed out, Ben Foster leaves a lot to be desired in the net. Enough said.Here are the teams that I think have MORE talent than England: Brazil, Spain, Argentina, France, Holland. England is on par with Italy and Portugal IMO.
 
Z and Guru- good stuff. Great of Guru to lay out the lineup like that so we can be precise about things.

Guru- I still haven't seen Gerrard and Lamps play well together or make England play well when they're on the pitch together... it's like they cancel each other out, making similar runs all over the field on both sides of the ball. The MF suffers as a result and Rooney will get starved.

Z is underrating Ferdinand, who is just in a semi-bad run of form lately. A year or two and going back, the guy was a monster. Dunno whether he's lost a step due to what seems like a lot of injuries in that span, but I still think he's got it- and especially when he can lean on Terry, who we all agree is a monster.

Z is also underrating Johnson, who is on the verge of becoming a fantastic player. I don't follow his week-to-week games enough to know what's up this year and why he hasn't broken out just yet- but IIRC, he's been battling injuries? Z- the cat can flat out play.

Z- who is Ivory Coast's other striker? I don't see how England needs another striker who is world class when they've already got Rooney. I guess you don't see him that way, or maybe down on his lack of height? IMO, The kid has proven himself as a goal-getter on every level- mebbe not quite as in form currently as Drogba, but not that far off either. So then it's just a matter of the other capable, not superstar, forwards catching a buzz at the right time- whether it's Crouch, Defoe, Heskey or a Bent or player waiting to hit form before the Cup (Agbonlahor?). I actually prefer Crouch of that group, but each one is more than capable of being a #2 up front next to Rooney; for most countries, those guys would be sure-fire starters and stars.

 
El Floppo said:
Z and Guru- good stuff. Great of Guru to lay out the lineup like that so we can be precise about things.

Guru- I still haven't seen Gerrard and Lamps play well together or make England play well when they're on the pitch together... it's like they cancel each other out, making similar runs all over the field on both sides of the ball. The MF suffers as a result and Rooney will get starved.

Z is underrating Ferdinand, who is just in a semi-bad run of form lately. A year or two and going back, the guy was a monster. Dunno whether he's lost a step due to what seems like a lot of injuries in that span, but I still think he's got it- and especially when he can lean on Terry, who we all agree is a monster.

Z is also underrating Johnson, who is on the verge of becoming a fantastic player. I don't follow his week-to-week games enough to know what's up this year and why he hasn't broken out just yet- but IIRC, he's been battling injuries? Z- the cat can flat out play.

Z- who is Ivory Coast's other striker? I don't see how England needs another striker who is world class when they've already got Rooney. I guess you don't see him that way, or maybe down on his lack of height? IMO, The kid has proven himself as a goal-getter on every level- mebbe not quite as in form currently as Drogba, but not that far off either. So then it's just a matter of the other capable, not superstar, forwards catching a buzz at the right time- whether it's Crouch, Defoe, Heskey or a Bent or player waiting to hit form before the Cup (Agbonlahor?). I actually prefer Crouch of that group, but each one is more than capable of being a #2 up front next to Rooney; for most countries, those guys would be sure-fire starters and stars.
I second this, Johnson is very far from mediocre.
 
El Floppo said:
Z and Guru- good stuff. Great of Guru to lay out the lineup like that so we can be precise about things.

Guru- I still haven't seen Gerrard and Lamps play well together or make England play well when they're on the pitch together... it's like they cancel each other out, making similar runs all over the field on both sides of the ball. The MF suffers as a result and Rooney will get starved.

Z is underrating Ferdinand, who is just in a semi-bad run of form lately. A year or two and going back, the guy was a monster. Dunno whether he's lost a step due to what seems like a lot of injuries in that span, but I still think he's got it- and especially when he can lean on Terry, who we all agree is a monster.

Z is also underrating Johnson, who is on the verge of becoming a fantastic player. I don't follow his week-to-week games enough to know what's up this year and why he hasn't broken out just yet- but IIRC, he's been battling injuries? Z- the cat can flat out play.

Z- who is Ivory Coast's other striker? I don't see how England needs another striker who is world class when they've already got Rooney. I guess you don't see him that way, or maybe down on his lack of height? IMO, The kid has proven himself as a goal-getter on every level- mebbe not quite as in form currently as Drogba, but not that far off either. So then it's just a matter of the other capable, not superstar, forwards catching a buzz at the right time- whether it's Crouch, Defoe, Heskey or a Bent or player waiting to hit form before the Cup (Agbonlahor?). I actually prefer Crouch of that group, but each one is more than capable of being a #2 up front next to Rooney; for most countries, those guys would be sure-fire starters and stars.
I second this, Johnson is very far from mediocre.
:wall:
 
What a great game, regardless of who you were cheering for....Everton down 2-0 in the 77th, come back to tie it....Tim Howard with the stunning PK save 6 minutes into stoppage time to deny Spurs the 3 points....doesn't get much better than that.
:goodposting: That was great!
 
I dont come in here much but Taskles, you can you can put me down for US, Man U (yes I am a front runner but my dads family hails from Manchester) and the Red Bulls. Used to have season tix

I liked this article

Pot Stirrers,

The much-maligned malady that has kept me from checking in from time to time has nothing to do with my fear of Mike Petke's profile picture on this site (nice shades!) but, in fact, the satisfaction I have garnered by being a recluse from this very platform.

Jimmy Conrad wants MLS to usher in a single-table format.

What can I say? I enjoyed ducking word counts, deadlines, coming up with a topic worth reading about and the pressure of trying to top my previous efforts. I enjoyed saying I used to write for a company that bills itself as "The Worldwide Leader In Sports." I enjoyed doing no type of self-promotion whatsoever (except for my radio show, Web site and notable public appearances). And then I read a book that detailed the history of Linux. And upon finishing the book, I had an epiphany. And with that epiphany, I had a vision of what the future of Major League Soccer should look like.

To the uninitiated, Linux, in its simplest form, is a computer operating system. What sets it apart from its competitors, however, is that its evolution is based on a collaborative effort from developers using free and open-source software. The original developer of Linux was Linus Torvalds, and he built his idea by standing on the shoulders and the work of Richard Stallman and Andrew Tanenbaum, just as those after him will use his shoulders to reach farther and aim higher. And those willing to join the community are encouraged to use the model in place and build something better without repercussion.

So with these Linux-influenced thoughts in my mind, I knew what had to be done. I had to create a platform for the masses, something to build off so you, my dear reader, can add or subtract or enhance or toss out whatever you see fit. It makes no difference to me how it develops, but a real conversation needs to start and start now. As a league, we're a teenager (14 years of existence), and we need to act like it. We have been toeing the line since birth, following the rules of our American sports brethren with playoffs and drafts and Eastern and Western conferences, but the time is ripe for a change. We need to tell our parents that we hate them and "what do they know about anything." We need to run with our own identity and stop trying to conform to people who aren't smart enough to understand the greatness of what we have to offer anyway. Here's the operating system I suggest:

NUMBER ONE: Expand Major League Soccer to 20 teams, and instead of splitting the 20 teams into two conferences of East and West, split them into MLS 1 and MLS 2. The top 10 teams of the year in, say 2012, would qualify to be in MLS 1, and the other 10 would play in MLS 2. I'll possibly allow exceptions, letting into MLS 1 a team that has had a wealth of history and championships in MLS (I'm looking at you, D.C. United, and your inexhaustible team president, Kevin Payne) if it has an off year in 2012, and bumping down to MLS 2 some punk team that had one good year at the right time but is perennially a lovable loser.

MLS 1 teams would play regular-season games only against each other, creating familiarity of the opponent for the fans and players, and intense rivalries overall. There would be no playoffs, and the team with the most victories after 30 games would be crowned champion. The top four teams in MLS 1 would qualify for the CONCACAF Champions League, the next four teams would qualify for SuperLiga and the bottom two teams would get relegated to MLS 2. The majority of MLS games on TV would be from MLS 1, with maybe one, the best matchup perhaps, from MLS 2 getting on the airwaves.

The initial crop of MLS 2 teams would be bitter about starting in MLS 2, but bitterness creates other emotions, and emotions get cities, fans, players, coaches and owners engaged, and engagement gets people to pay attention, and attention makes money. The winner of MLS 2, after 30 games of regular-season play, would get automatic promotion to MLS 1, and the next two teams in the standings would compete in a one-game playoff for the second berth for promotion.

Possible Positive Side Effects:

The Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup would take on added importance, as games between MLS 1 and MLS 2 teams would be hot tickets and hotly contested. It would generate a nice boost of exposure for a tournament that deserves it.

The promotion and relegation angle would add drama and relevance to every game except for those bottom teams in MLS 2.

A Question From What I Have Proposed That Is Worth Exploring:

Would it be worth creating MLS 3?

The Always Endearing Fallout From The Know-It-All Talking Heads:

"We are Americans, and as such, we should be ourselves: We embrace playoffs and conferences, and we don't copy the incredible success of the top soccer leagues from around the world."

"Soccer is boring. They should count every goal as six points, like the NFL does, to make it seem more high scoring than it really is."

NUMBER TWO: Become a monopoly. MLS needs to buy the United Soccer League, the Major Indoor Soccer League and any other league with thoughts of being a competitor. Despite my instincts to the contrary, competition, in this regard, creates gray area and confusion, and if our main goal is to become one of the great leagues around the world while developing homegrown talent and a superior national team, everyone needs to be working together.

The USL can morph into the MLS Reserve League and host meaningful games for our younger players, because the knock on our younger players is that they don't have enough game experience in pressure situations to make good tactical decisions on a consistent basis. It's sad to say, because I'm a huge proponent of the college experience, but the current college game doesn't provide the proper environment from which to seamlessly transition to the professional level. The NCAA needs to make the season longer than four months and somehow expose these kids to what's it like to play with and against grown men who are playing to put food on the table and pay bills, because it's a completely different mindset.

The MISL can be converted into a "See Them Before They Are Stars In MLS" Indoor League. The league could and should be held during the MLS offseason from the end of November to the beginning of March, and the rosters for these teams could and should be littered with players who played less than 1,000 minutes during the regular season in MLS. Again, it's an opportunity to get players valuable touches on the ball under pressure with lots of eyes watching instead of having them sitting on the couch waiting for preseason training to roll around. The league could barnstorm around the country, hitting a variety of markets, or a rule could be introduced that each team in MLS has to have an indoor team. The best example I can give to prove why this would be beneficial to the league is that the majority of professional soccer players from America grew up in California, Texas or Florida. That's because, due to the climate, the kids in those states can play all year. The indoor league would provide MLS with this opportunity.

Possible Positive Side Effects:

By keeping MLS Reserve League teams in the smaller markets the USL currently occupies, MLS can tap into the minor league baseball mentality as fans watch a player progress from unknown in a little town to superstar in a big city and follow him throughout the rest of his career.

The MLS Indoor League could keep MLS in the media spotlight all year and give it an increased boost in entertainment value, if only because there are more goals scored in indoor soccer and Americans love scoring.

Both platforms would provide MLS with the ability to solve a variety of issues ranging from referee, coaching and player development to new television deals, which lead to new fans.

Questions From What I Have Proposed That Are Worth Exploring:

Do we have the infrastructure to pull this off?

What is the main goal of having MLS in place? Is it about land and money and tax write-offs, or is it about something more?

The Always Endearing Fallout From The Know-It-All Talking Heads:

"Soccer in this country will never work, and I know this because when I played, I wasn't very good and the soccer players always got the girls."

NUMBER THREE: Dispose of the MLS draft. Forever. Instead, encourage teams to develop their own prospects and give them the power to sign these prospects to professional contracts at whatever age they deem fit. If a player forgoes a contract offer from the team that brought him up to attend college, said team loses all rights to the player IF the player uses all four years of college eligibility. If the player goes to college for three years or less and wants to become a pro, the team that brought him up will have restricted rights to his services.

For example, let's say a player goes to UCLA, the best soccer school in the country, for a year and has a terrific freshman season. If he thinks he's ready for MLS, the MLS club that fostered his growth, let's say the Los Angeles Galaxy, will have the right to match any offer from any other club in MLS or abroad for his services. If the Galaxy refuses to match the offer, the player is free to choose whichever club gave him the best offer. If a player comes out of college after serving all four years, he is free to join whatever club he wants based on playing style, the coach in place, proximity to home, the money offered or whatever.

Possible Positive Side Effects:

This idea, coupled with MLS becoming a monopoly as described in NUMBER TWO above, gives teams and players a Point A to Point B blueprint for how to make it from youth player to professional player. And once the first 10-year-old makes it from the youth system of a team in Major League Soccer to become the star of the show at age 18, the real boom of development will begin because the competitive nature of sport, and of people (fans, owners, etc.) in general, will demand that other teams start developing their own talent as well.

Without relegation for MLS 2, some of the clubs at the bottom with nothing to play for could find comfort in becoming feeder teams for the big clubs in MLS 1 by selling their homegrown talent at a premium price.

A Question From What I Have Proposed That Is Worth Exploring:

How do we get the youth soccer factions to join the effort to work for the common good, for the benefit of our league and national team, instead of what makes the most money?

The Always Endearing Fallout From The Know-It-All Talking Heads:

"If the soccer community here in the States starts to get the hang of identifying talent and using the tools at its disposal to develop these kids, the rest of the sports in this country could be in trouble. Of course, I doubt they will ever figure it out."

In closing, I hope you understand that these are merely suggestions to make the world a better place for our kids to live in. A place where Little Johnny, who has the ability to trap a ball under pressure, hold off two defenders and tuck the ball neatly into the corner of the goal, can be brought along in an efficient manner -- a manner in which the development of players, referees and coaches reigns to benefit our top league (MLS) and our governing body (U.S. Soccer) as a whole. Whether you believe I'm on to something or on something, I think we all can agree that a conversation about what happens next needs to begin because valuable time is ticking by before we (i.e., all of us in the soccer community) get locked into a stagnant model of existence. I'll acknowledge the first 14 years of MLS have led us here ,and here is a lot farther along than most people could have imagined, but the time has come to take the next step. It's time to evolve.

So now, by standing on the shoulders of my Linux-influenced ideas above, please chime in with your thoughts in the Conversation section below by answering one question and one question only:

Am I right or am I right?

I'll be back in two weeks, using your input to keep the conversation going.

Jimmy Conrad is a defender for the U.S. team and Major League Soccer's Kansas City Wizards. He contributes regularly to ESPNsoccernet and can be reached at Jimmy@JimmyConrad.com.
 
Now on to Gerrard. My opinion of him used to be a lot higher. That was when he had Xabi playing next to him. Since then he hasn't looked to be in the same class as other top-flight central midfielders with an attacking bent. I'm not saying Xabi's world class either (I don't think he is) but they played exceptionally together at 'pool. I haven't seen the same connection with Lampard, and honestly, I don't think it's Lampard's fault. These two should be able to dominate the central part of the pitch together, but while watching England play, that doesn't happen as often as I would think. Furthermore, I don't think Gerrard makes the players around him better and doesn't get the wings involved as I'd like. Look I'm a Liverpool fan, and if you would have asked me a year or more ago, I would have said absolutely that Gerrard is world class, but now... he's looked ordinary.
You are "Walking Alone" on this one buddy. And not that it matters much on the Gerrard blasphemy but I think Xabi has proven to be world class since at least the CHAMPIONS league win. And we have not come close to replacing him (or Crouch and Keene for that matter). Glen Johnson has been kinda meh for us so far but the whole squad has been down this season. Injuries and no bench have alot to do with that. And Babel is awful. Worse than Lucas even who is everyone favorite target.

And why is everyone so high on Argentina? I mean they have the wonder twins and all but.....no Gleek.

 
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