***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[Moe.]

Jones just can't get healthy. Unfortunate because in 2014 he'll probably be too old (32), and like you said we could really use him. Just didn't work out.

 

[Moe.]

Has Ricardo Clark been getting any action in Germany?

 

[scoobygang]

I definitely take Ching. I'm well aware of what he doesn't give us. But he's our most intelligent hold up player. He does draw fouls. He's a good passer. And he knows how to get space on set pieces. And compared to Connor Casey, he's Carl Lewis.

Ching might be a "horses for courses" type of guy. I don't see him troubling England or even Slovenia, where they've seen lots of big, goofy European target forwards. Algeria? I think that's exactly the type of team that Ching could sneak in on a set piece.

 

[scoobygang]

Has Ricardo Clark been getting any action in Germany?

He developed a hammy problem almost immediately. Last weekend was his first where he got to dress, but he was an unused sub.

 

[brewer]

As far as van der Vaart, he suffers from Arsene Wenger disease. He's right that we don't play beautiful football, but this isn't ice dancing and you don't get style points. You don't have to play beautiful football to win. You win by putting more in the net than the opposing team, however you can do it. Even with some pretty awful play by a few of our guys in the 1h, the Dutch did not get one single good chance (well, besides the pk). The single most threatening shot in the 1h was by Torres. But then again, like all madridistas, he'd rather play pretty football than win.

I'm an Arsenal fan, but I'm completely sick of Wenger's whining. Everytime the Gunners don't play well, it's because the other team played anti-football. He acts like he manages the only team capable of stringing 5 passes together. I think many beautiful game teams give themselves too much credit. Beautiful football means doing something incisive on the ball, not just possessing it. I remember in the first leg of the CL semi between Barca and Chelsea last year, everyone complained about Chelsea. But I didn't think Barca played "beautiful" football in that game. I thought they aimlessly possessed the ball without trying to do anything dangerous with it.

Wenger whines too much, that is for sure. But his managerial style is the main reason that I am an Arsenal fan. I love the passing style that he teaches, I love the fact that he has strong belief his players(sometimes to a fault), and maybe most importantly, I love the fact that he is willing to develop the young players on the pitch. I'm willing to ignore some of the whining because in most every other facet, he handles things almost exactly as I would like them to be handled.

 

[prefontaine]

Wenger whines too much, that is for sure. But his managerial style is the main reason that I am an Arsenal fan. I love the passing style that he teaches, I love the fact that he has strong belief his players(sometimes to a fault), and maybe most importantly, I love the fact that he is willing to develop the young players on the pitch. I'm willing to ignore some of the whining because in most every other facet, he handles things almost exactly as I would like them to be handled.

To be clear, I love Wenger and love watching teams that play that style -- it is the most entertaining brand for a neutral observer. However, it takes a certain kind of player and while I'd rather watch that kind of game, I'd rather the team I root for (in this case USA), play whatever style gives them the best shot to win. It's also just highly annoying after matches when a team loses or doesn't live up to expectations that rather than give the other team credit for tremendous effort, tactics and organization, you talk about the style of play. In this case, I've seen many Dutch fans saying "that is the worst game we've played in a while" and "the Americans play boring football" then I came on here and read van der Vaart's comment. Same sort of comments after we beat Spain. They just sat back in a shell and forced us to break them down. Well no #### sherlock. Just like Villa doesn't rush 8 guys forward when playing Arsenal. You can call it long ball or boring or whatever, but it gives you the best chance to win which AFAIK is the entire ####### point.

 

[The Z Machine]

Wenger whines too much, that is for sure. But his managerial style is the main reason that I am an Arsenal fan. I love the passing style that he teaches, I love the fact that he has strong belief his players(sometimes to a fault), and maybe most importantly, I love the fact that he is willing to develop the young players on the pitch. I'm willing to ignore some of the whining because in most every other facet, he handles things almost exactly as I would like them to be handled.

To be clear, I love Wenger and love watching teams that play that style -- it is the most entertaining brand for a neutral observer. However, it takes a certain kind of player and while I'd rather watch that kind of game, I'd rather the team I root for (in this case USA), play whatever style gives them the best shot to win. It's also just highly annoying after matches when a team loses or doesn't live up to expectations that rather than give the other team credit for tremendous effort, tactics and organization, you talk about the style of play. In this case, I've seen many Dutch fans saying "that is the worst game we've played in a while" and "the Americans play boring football" then I came on here and read van der Vaart's comment. Same sort of comments after we beat Spain. They just sat back in a shell and forced us to break them down. Well no #### sherlock. Just like Villa doesn't rush 8 guys forward when playing Arsenal. You can call it long ball or boring or whatever, but it gives you the best chance to win which AFAIK is the entire ####### point.

But it's ugly...

 

[Vipers]

I think it's quite possible that the US scores 3 goals or less in the WC.

3 goals ought to be enough to do it, assuming England takes care of business. I don't see Slovenia and Algeria lighting it up against us.

It might get us out of the first round (which is the goal, at least for me), but that's only because we have a weak group.

I am thinking with the current lineup that a 1-1-1 record may be hard to achieve. If Dempsey and Gooch can both get back to full steam I will feel better. I think Dempsey will, I don't think Gooch is going to have the game time needed to get back to form.

Getting one win won't be hard to achieve. I watched a good chunk of the Algeria-Serbia game and Algeria is not good. Slovenia, while better should also be a win. We will get through the group stage but will get smoked by Germany in the knock-out stage.Lets just hope that Bradley gets his head of his you know what and seriously considers employing a 4-5-1. Lets play to our strengths not weaknesses. Good to see Beasley might be back.

 

[El Floppo]

I think it's quite possible that the US scores 3 goals or less in the WC.

3 goals ought to be enough to do it, assuming England takes care of business. I don't see Slovenia and Algeria lighting it up against us.

It might get us out of the first round (which is the goal, at least for me), but that's only because we have a weak group.

I am thinking with the current lineup that a 1-1-1 record may be hard to achieve. If Dempsey and Gooch can both get back to full steam I will feel better. I think Dempsey will, I don't think Gooch is going to have the game time needed to get back to form.

Getting one win won't be hard to achieve. I watched a good chunk of the Algeria-Serbia game and Algeria is not good. Slovenia, while better should also be a win. We will get through the group stage but will get smoked by Germany in the knock-out stage.Lets just hope that Bradley gets his head of his you know what and seriously considers employing a 4-5-1. Lets play to our strengths not weaknesses. Good to see Beasley might be back.

I disagree that playing a lone striker is "playing to our strengths". Jozy isn't that guy yet... so that means it's Ching up front with Jozy on the bench? Or do you see Jozy playing that role despite not handling it at all well for club or country?

 

[El Floppo]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

 

[prefontaine]

But it's ugly...

:IBTL:

 

[prefontaine]

Asked about Bob Bradley here was Ives reply

I think he's a good coach who has done a good job since taking over. He has critics who blame him for everything that goes wrong, and say any successes are in spite of him. I wouldn't say he's never made a questionable move, but for the most part I can understand the logic behind most of the moves.Consider this. If back in 2006, after Bruce Arena got let go, I would tell you that under the next coach the USA wins the 2010 qualifying group, 2007 Gold Cup, reaches the final of the Confederations Cup, plays the likes of Brazil (three times), Spain (twice), England, Argentina (twice) and the Netherlands, all while a growing number of Americans are making good moves to Europe. I think most people would have looked at that and said, "Man, whoever they hired to replace Arena did a good job." What do we get instead? We get a select number of fans who insist that a different coach would have turned the USA into a World Cup contender by now. Sometimes I think if Bob Bradley's name was Roberto Bradlini, and he was from Italy instead of New Jersey, some fans would have embraced him more and thought he was doing a great job.

 

[Moe.]

I'm sure most have seen this but...worst own goal ever.

 

[Kendall]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

Okay. You got me. He played as well as a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings and corn bits instead of a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings, corn bits and covered in dog hair. The guy had a pretty bad game. Epically bad? Not so much, but he was clearly the worst player on the pitch for the US by a large margin. I don't think Findley had a bad game, he was just decidedly "blah." He did well to control that long ball, then completely rushed a centering pass straight to the Dutch Keeper when no one had time to come up in support. He just looked like a guy that hadn't had much experince with games of that speed and competion, which he hasn't.

 

[andy_b]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

Okay. You got me. He played as well as a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings and corn bits instead of a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings, corn bits and covered in dog hair. The guy had a pretty bad game. Epically bad? Not so much, but he was clearly the worst player on the pitch for the US by a large margin.

and none of that even mentions that he really should have been called for a clear, arm extended, hand ball for a second PK. It may have been unintentional but most times that's a PK.I have not been a basher of Bornstein, but he did not have a good game.

Also Floppo, I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on Findley. He seemed to work some what to get free but when he had the ball on his feet, I don't think he ever looked dangerous too much.

 

[Kendall]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

Okay. You got me. He played as well as a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings and corn bits instead of a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings, corn bits and covered in dog hair. The guy had a pretty bad game. Epically bad? Not so much, but he was clearly the worst player on the pitch for the US by a large margin.

and none of that even mentions that he really should have been called for a clear, arm extended, hand ball for a second PK. It may have been unintentional but most times that's a PK.

That was the cause of my Jesus Bornstein x2 post. I think the only reason the ref didn't give the penalty was becuase he just gave one three minutes prior to the same guy.

 

[Sammy3469]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

Okay. You got me. He played as well as a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings and corn bits instead of a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings, corn bits and covered in dog hair. The guy had a pretty bad game. Epically bad? Not so much, but he was clearly the worst player on the pitch for the US by a large margin.

and none of that even mentions that he really should have been called for a clear, arm extended, hand ball for a second PK. It may have been unintentional but most times that's a PK.

That was the cause of my Jesus Bornstein x2 post. I think the only reason the ref didn't give the penalty was becuase he just gave one three minutes prior to the same guy.

Like most defenders, Bornstein is fine until he gets put out of position. Once that happens he panics and commits stupid (really unforgivable) fouls (that gets worse when he plays sophisticated teams where guys know how to sell fouls, dive, and generally cause fouls to get called). That's fine in CONCACAF or in MLS where his speed allows him to maintain defensive position the vast majority of the time, but at the WC level he has just average speed (in comparison to some of the best wingers in the world) and thus gets pulled out of position and panics. He's one US player that really needs to go overseas to improve his tactically awareness.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

from the EPL Talk blog:

ESPN Commentators For 2010 World Cup TV Coverage Announced

ESPN today announced the lead commentators for its coverage of the 2010 World Cup. The lead commentators will be Martin Tyler, Ian Darke, Derek Rae and Adrian Healey.

In all, ESPN will employ four teams to cover all 64 tournament games live from South Africa between June 11 and July 11, 2010.

The inclusion of Martin Tyler was announced late last year. And the placement of Derek Rae and Adrian Healey will come as no surprise since both of them have been integral to ESPN’s coverage of soccer over the past several years. Ian Darke is the surprise. The commentator, who has commentated Premier League games for years, is a worthy signing and will definitely elevate the quality of ESPN’s coverage.

As a side note, Darke was hired to commentate on World Cup games during the 1994 World Cup and did an admirable job then during his short stint in America.

ESPN’s broadcast assignments for the 2010 FIFA World Cup – including the analyst pairings – will be announced later this spring.

The only concern I have right now is who is going to commentate the games featuring the United States. I presumed it would have been JP Dellacamera as the lead commentator, but he has instead been selected as the lead commentator for the World Cup games that will be broadcast on ESPN Radio alongside Tommy Smyth. It’s going to sound strange to have a British commentator being the lead on games featuring the United States.

“The group of commentators we have assembled represents some of the finest English-language voices for televised soccer anywhere in the world,” said Jed Drake, ESPN’s executive producer, 2010 FIFA World Cup. “They present the sport at its highest level and their first-hand knowledge of the players who will compete in the FIFA World Cup will greatly inform fans and enhance how we present this global event in the United States.”

list of commentators who will not be missed during US gamesellacamera

Smyth

Harkes

Balboa

Foudy

Ley

Tirico

 

[El Floppo]

I really want to write the game up... when I get a moment.

Some things that jumped out at me- Bornstein and Findley weren't as bad as given (lack of) credit for.

Okay. You got me. He played as well as a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings and corn bits instead of a giant turd littered with newspaper shavings, corn bits and covered in dog hair. The guy had a pretty bad game. Epically bad? Not so much, but he was clearly the worst player on the pitch for the US by a large margin.

and none of that even mentions that he really should have been called for a clear, arm extended, hand ball for a second PK. It may have been unintentional but most times that's a PK.I have not been a basher of Bornstein, but he did not have a good game.

Also Floppo, I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on Findley. He seemed to work some what to get free but when he had the ball on his feet, I don't think he ever looked dangerous too much.

Hopefully have a second to reply now...To be clear- I didn't think either guy had a good game. The point I hope to make is that neither were as abysmal as the reviews I've seen (in here and elsewhere).

Johnny B... Two catastrophic errors. The shoulder grab on Snejder (who dived, clearly- but still) was so amateurish- he had Boca helping and Snejder moving wide away from the goal... horrible. Exactly the type of play to sink a WC. The hand ball was not as amateurish, but still perplexing- wtf was he thinking swinging his arms about with nobody near him? Also a WC sinking play.

Also on the "bad" side of things- caught out of position several times when pushing forward into attack. Burned badly by Robben/Alia a few too many times.

Bad things said (and please tell me what I've missed), outside of the first two catastrophes I can excuse the latter "bad" things somewhat. Robben burns a lot of people regularly, and even though I've never seen Alia- wow!- I'm guessing with his pace and aggression in attack, he's doing the same. Spector had a similar game in terms of defending those two (not so well), but nobody's really complaining about his play. I felt like both of the outside backs did an ok job limiting the danger from the wings and did their best keeping the play out wide and not pushing to goal. Johnny actualy did a better job getting forward IMO, but suffered when he did from some sloppy MF play on the ball. And to be honest- he wasn't immune to the errant passing either.

Netherlands got two really soft goals and didn't create many, if any, clear-cut dangerous chances. Full credit to the center of the pitch for taht, but Bornstein and Spector did their share too.

I agree with the previous poster about Bornstein's wild, undisciplined play- but to be fair, that has improved somewhat (PK foul aside)... he's not jumping in as much (hello Frankie Hejduk!) and getting better about using positioning to defend rather than just speed and tackling (Spector is still clearly way ahead of him in that regard). Not saying he's great there- just saying it's getting better.

Also- Alia had a one-on-one breakaway after he slotted between Bornstein and the central duo (IIRC, Bornstein was pushed wide covering somebody else). Johnny caught up and put enough pressure on him to help disrupt a pure one-on-one wiht Howard.

So... two (only one counted, really) mega-mistakes, a handful of getting beat by better players (similar to everybody else on his team) and otherwise just doing his job. Not a great or even good performance, but not as awful as you guys are making it out to be. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Findley... well- IMO, not even as "good" a performance as Bornstein. He was really horrible on the ball all game. But... with the MF disappearing almost completely in the first half and the defense forced to clear the ball downfield too much- Findley routinely anticipated and made the runs to get himself into position and to get those balls; I honestly haven't seen any other US forward do that since McBride besides Davies. Unfortunately, he did bupkis since he could barely control the ball with his first touch and looked terrified when he did.

So... IMO, really positive work off the ball, but played himself to an MLS summer with his work on the ball.

 

[bweiser]

Anyone getting Fox Soccer Plus yet?

I thought I was getting it added through Verizon, and in the message center on FIOS it said, 'at no charge.' But after speaking with customer service and trying to find out how to get it, then trying to subscribe through my TV, it appears they want $14.99 per month for it.

As much as I like soccer, I am going to pass on that for now.

 

[prefontaine]

So... two (only one counted, really) mega-mistakes, a handful of getting beat by better players (similar to everybody else on his team) and otherwise just doing his job. Not a great or even good performance, but not as awful as you guys are making it out to be. Tell me why I'm wrong.

You make a pretty good argument but I think you are ignoring how much space he was giving on his side of the pitch. It didn't help that Torres and Donovan didn't do much defending in front of him but one reason they kept going down that side was Bornstein would get out of position and leave Robben all alone giving an easy outlet. I really have no complaint about how he played after Robben (or Elia) had the ball, but he needs to do a much better job of cutting down space before the ball arrives. It's one thing when they are cross field passes but he was allowing Sneijder easy distribution to that wing whenever he wanted. This has always been one of my biggest complaints about Bornstein. He seems to watch the game too much and he just reads it poorly. Also, on another note, he is really showing a nasty habit of making horrible mistakes. Everyone makes one here or there but he seems to make 1-2 per game. If he were a better player overall it could be something you live with but he's below average otherwise. Combine below average with catastrophic mistakes and you get a guy that just shouldn't be on the pitch. Right now I'm desperately hoping Gooch can come back so we can slide Boca outside and improve both positions.

 

[prefontaine]

Anyone getting Fox Soccer Plus yet?I thought I was getting it added through Verizon, and in the message center on FIOS it said, 'at no charge.' But after speaking with customer service and trying to find out how to get it, then trying to subscribe through my TV, it appears they want $14.99 per month for it. As much as I like soccer, I am going to pass on that for now.

All they did was buy out Setanta. And I believe they are charging the exact same.

 

[The Z Machine]

Barça draws with Alermía today... allowing Real to close the gap to even if they put away Sevilla in the Bernabeú. Barça had to come back with 10 players after Ibra got the boot.

Sevilla is already up 1-0!!! Nice cross put into the 6 yard box that gets put away by.... Xabi Alonso into his own net. Whoops!

 

[Christo]

Tintin Scholes!

100

 

[The Z Machine]

After going down 2-0, Real ties it up on a nice set piece header by Sergio Ramos. They are fired up after seeing the light of the la liga title slipping away...

 

[The Z Machine]

And Real pulls it out in the 90+ minute. Van der Vaart on the cleanup after a nice cross from Ramos to a header by Higuaín (I think). They kept pushing, wanting that goal badly. Sevilla was trying everything to slow them down, but to no avail.

 

[Desert_Power]

And Real pulls it out in the 90+ minute. Van der Vaart on the cleanup after a nice cross from Ramos to a header by Higuaín (I think). They kept pushing, wanting that goal badly. Sevilla was trying everything to slow them down, but to no avail.

Incredible finish, and an infuriating one.Barca was lucky to get a point today.

 

[El Floppo]

So... two (only one counted, really) mega-mistakes, a handful of getting beat by better players (similar to everybody else on his team) and otherwise just doing his job. Not a great or even good performance, but not as awful as you guys are making it out to be. Tell me why I'm wrong.

You make a pretty good argument but I think you are ignoring how much space he was giving on his side of the pitch. It didn't help that Torres and Donovan didn't do much defending in front of him but one reason they kept going down that side was Bornstein would get out of position and leave Robben all alone giving an easy outlet. I really have no complaint about how he played after Robben (or Elia) had the ball, but he needs to do a much better job of cutting down space before the ball arrives. It's one thing when they are cross field passes but he was allowing Sneijder easy distribution to that wing whenever he wanted. This has always been one of my biggest complaints about Bornstein. He seems to watch the game too much and he just reads it poorly. Also, on another note, he is really showing a nasty habit of making horrible mistakes. Everyone makes one here or there but he seems to make 1-2 per game. If he were a better player overall it could be something you live with but he's below average otherwise. Combine below average with catastrophic mistakes and you get a guy that just shouldn't be on the pitch. Right now I'm desperately hoping Gooch can come back so we can slide Boca outside and improve both positions.

I tend to agree with you that Bornstein's positioning isn't quite on par with the rest of the defenders, including Pearce. but I honestly didn't see much difference between the space allowed and the play given between Spector and Bornstein on the night- Spector was marginally better shutting down lanes, but the ball still found it's way to his side as much as to Bornstein's. Sneijder seemed like he was putting it wherever he wanted all night, despite decent defending in teh middle of the pitch. Like you say, one area that was different between the two outside backs was that Bornstein pushed forward more, and as a result got burned by his man staying in that vacated space. For the US to succeed, one of the outside backs has to get into the attack, so wihtout knowing more about the marking arrangements on the team, I'm not going to fault him too much there- he seemed to make the right decisions moving forward.I really agree with you about the catastrophic mistakes- and he and Pearce both share that tendency. I was tring to touch on that earlier by saying they kind of swap decent and horrific performances leaving Bradley (and all us US fans) with zero confidence in either. It's Hejduk all over.

Based on nothing other than knowing he won't get game time, I just don't see Gooch being ready- hope he will be, but doubt it. Whathisname in the middle defended really well (Simek?) on the night, but was god-awful with his distribution- put the team in real danger with his offense.

It's not optimal, but between Boca and Simek?/Goodson/Marshall (probably in that order, although I'm really liking Goodson) I think the middle of the pitch is... guh... ok- especially if Bradley +1 play the way they're capable of defensively in front of them. I like Spector on one side... mebbe the left if Cherundolo can come back from injury to take the right. I really, really don't like what I've seen from Boca on the wing (Confed Cup aside). Too bad Castillo didn't factor... really would've liked to have seen what he brought to the team.

 

[El Floppo]

Edu has some more maturing to do, particularly on some decision-making for tackles and off-the-ball positioning. Those are things that come from experience. He's shown that he can shut down passing lanes and mark effectively, plus being an OK short passer. The best defensive MFs play with a tenacity and controlled aggression that makes them a true disruptive force in the opposing team's offense. I keep harping on it, but Marcos Senna is the best example playing right now. Dude is tough as nails and knows when to go in strong, when to make the hard tackle that might generate a yellow but stop a likely goal, and when not to give up a spot kick and let play go on.

Edu also needs to work on his defensive organizational skills, so as not to get others out of position and mark the opponents effectively. Those are qualities that Edu has, but needs to work hard on to be the player that can play alongside Bradley effectively. I've seen them in him from when he was playing at the u19 or u21 level, but he's got to continue to refine them. Think about the world class attacking MFs that he'd be up against: Cesc, Lampard, Kaká, Sneijder and think about the skills needed to slow those guys down.

For Michael Bradley, he's the current workhorse for the midfield for the US, and that can't stop. His motor needs to go 100%, end-to-end, distributing the ball and getting the entire team working as a unit. That means getting Demps to play effectively on the wing 9including tracking back for D), springing LD or for a run, hitting Jozy posting up playing with his back to the net, and putting out the long pass to get the counter attack going. He does that, but he's too stuck in breaking up passing lanes due to Clark not being reliable or fast enough on D to do it effectively.

Edu is the future. Jones should be the present... What's the deal here? We need this guy.

Good stuff, Z.I'd add to it that since the US switched to a 4-4-2, the central MFs haven't played in the more recently traditional roles of holding/attacking MFs; they end up playing pretty flat to each other above the central backs, with Bradley getting a bit more of the offensive responsibilites.

So more than the pressure being put on how one of the guys plays, it's more about how the two partner up and know how to play together to close the gaps and cover the danger men.I"ve seen two or three Nats games live over the last few years and some of the guys have it, and some don't. I think with Bradley as a given, Edu has paired the best with him. THey've worked well typically to plug up the middle (although I still see the occasional gap between them and the center backs... Costa Rica consistently finds them and abuses the US because of it) and Bradley tends to be more productive offensively when Edu is on the field. I'd say Clarke would be the 2nd option. Off the radar for real US duty, but still part of the group, Beckerman actually does a great job reading whoever he's paired with... but it's a moo point since he won't sniff WC.

 

[The Z Machine]

Edu has some more maturing to do, particularly on some decision-making for tackles and off-the-ball positioning. Those are things that come from experience. He's shown that he can shut down passing lanes and mark effectively, plus being an OK short passer. The best defensive MFs play with a tenacity and controlled aggression that makes them a true disruptive force in the opposing team's offense. I keep harping on it, but Marcos Senna is the best example playing right now. Dude is tough as nails and knows when to go in strong, when to make the hard tackle that might generate a yellow but stop a likely goal, and when not to give up a spot kick and let play go on.

Edu also needs to work on his defensive organizational skills, so as not to get others out of position and mark the opponents effectively. Those are qualities that Edu has, but needs to work hard on to be the player that can play alongside Bradley effectively. I've seen them in him from when he was playing at the u19 or u21 level, but he's got to continue to refine them. Think about the world class attacking MFs that he'd be up against: Cesc, Lampard, Kaká, Sneijder and think about the skills needed to slow those guys down.

For Michael Bradley, he's the current workhorse for the midfield for the US, and that can't stop. His motor needs to go 100%, end-to-end, distributing the ball and getting the entire team working as a unit. That means getting Demps to play effectively on the wing 9including tracking back for D), springing LD or for a run, hitting Jozy posting up playing with his back to the net, and putting out the long pass to get the counter attack going. He does that, but he's too stuck in breaking up passing lanes due to Clark not being reliable or fast enough on D to do it effectively.

Edu is the future. Jones should be the present... What's the deal here? We need this guy.

Good stuff, Z.I'd add to it that since the US switched to a 4-4-2, the central MFs haven't played in the more recently traditional roles of holding/attacking MFs; they end up playing pretty flat to each other above the central backs, with Bradley getting a bit more of the offensive responsibilites.

So more than the pressure being put on how one of the guys plays, it's more about how the two partner up and know how to play together to close the gaps and cover the danger men.I"ve seen two or three Nats games live over the last few years and some of the guys have it, and some don't. I think with Bradley as a given, Edu has paired the best with him. THey've worked well typically to plug up the middle (although I still see the occasional gap between them and the center backs... Costa Rica consistently finds them and abuses the US because of it) and Bradley tends to be more productive offensively when Edu is on the field. I'd say Clarke would be the 2nd option. Off the radar for real US duty, but still part of the group, Beckerman actually does a great job reading whoever he's paired with... but it's a moo point since he won't sniff WC.

Good point about them playing flat as opposed to a more traditional role. Although I do have to add that I really dislike berkerman on the field. He's overmatched against nearly all competition.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Deloitte Top 20 Football Clubs in 08/09 revenue (link)

Numbers are in million € 1 Real Madrid			 (Spain)   401.4 2 FC Barcelona			(Spain)   365.9 3 Manchester United	   (England) 327.0 4 Bayern München		  (Germany) 289.5 5 Arsenal				 (England) 263.0 6 Chelsea				 (England) 242.3 7 Liverpool			   (England) 217.0 8 Juventus				(Italy)   203.2 9 Internazionale		  (Italy)   196.510 AC Milan			   (Italy)   196.511 Hamburger SV		   (Germany) 146.712 AS Roma				(Italy)   146.413 Olympique Lyonnais	 (France)  139.614 Olympique de Marseille (France)  133.215 Tottenham Hotspur	  (England) 132.716 Schalke 04			 (Germany) 124.517 Werder Bremen		  (Germany) 114.718 Borussia Dortmund	  (Germany) 103.519 Manchester City		(England) 102.220 Newcastle United	   (England) 101.0

 

[Moe.]

So... two (only one counted, really) mega-mistakes, a handful of getting beat by better players (similar to everybody else on his team) and otherwise just doing his job. Not a great or even good performance, but not as awful as you guys are making it out to be. Tell me why I'm wrong.

You make a pretty good argument but I think you are ignoring how much space he was giving on his side of the pitch. It didn't help that Torres and Donovan didn't do much defending in front of him but one reason they kept going down that side was Bornstein would get out of position and leave Robben all alone giving an easy outlet. I really have no complaint about how he played after Robben (or Elia) had the ball, but he needs to do a much better job of cutting down space before the ball arrives. It's one thing when they are cross field passes but he was allowing Sneijder easy distribution to that wing whenever he wanted. This has always been one of my biggest complaints about Bornstein. He seems to watch the game too much and he just reads it poorly. Also, on another note, he is really showing a nasty habit of making horrible mistakes. Everyone makes one here or there but he seems to make 1-2 per game. If he were a better player overall it could be something you live with but he's below average otherwise. Combine below average with catastrophic mistakes and you get a guy that just shouldn't be on the pitch. Right now I'm desperately hoping Gooch can come back so we can slide Boca outside and improve both positions.

It's not optimal, but between Boca and Simek?/Goodson/Marshall (probably in that order, although I'm really liking Goodson) I think the middle of the pitch is... guh... ok- especially if Bradley +1 play the way they're capable of defensively in front of them. I like Spector on one side... mebbe the left if Cherundolo can come back from injury to take the right. I really, really don't like what I've seen from Boca on the wing (Confed Cup aside). Too bad Castillo didn't factor... really would've liked to have seen what he brought to the team.

Spector has filled in fine at lb for West Ham a few times. If Cherundolo comes back (how badly is he injured?) I think sliding Spector over is by far our best option.

 

[El Floppo]

Edu has some more maturing to do, particularly on some decision-making for tackles and off-the-ball positioning. Those are things that come from experience. He's shown that he can shut down passing lanes and mark effectively, plus being an OK short passer. The best defensive MFs play with a tenacity and controlled aggression that makes them a true disruptive force in the opposing team's offense. I keep harping on it, but Marcos Senna is the best example playing right now. Dude is tough as nails and knows when to go in strong, when to make the hard tackle that might generate a yellow but stop a likely goal, and when not to give up a spot kick and let play go on.

Edu also needs to work on his defensive organizational skills, so as not to get others out of position and mark the opponents effectively. Those are qualities that Edu has, but needs to work hard on to be the player that can play alongside Bradley effectively. I've seen them in him from when he was playing at the u19 or u21 level, but he's got to continue to refine them. Think about the world class attacking MFs that he'd be up against: Cesc, Lampard, Kaká, Sneijder and think about the skills needed to slow those guys down.

For Michael Bradley, he's the current workhorse for the midfield for the US, and that can't stop. His motor needs to go 100%, end-to-end, distributing the ball and getting the entire team working as a unit. That means getting Demps to play effectively on the wing 9including tracking back for D), springing LD or for a run, hitting Jozy posting up playing with his back to the net, and putting out the long pass to get the counter attack going. He does that, but he's too stuck in breaking up passing lanes due to Clark not being reliable or fast enough on D to do it effectively.

Edu is the future. Jones should be the present... What's the deal here? We need this guy.

Good stuff, Z.I'd add to it that since the US switched to a 4-4-2, the central MFs haven't played in the more recently traditional roles of holding/attacking MFs; they end up playing pretty flat to each other above the central backs, with Bradley getting a bit more of the offensive responsibilites.

So more than the pressure being put on how one of the guys plays, it's more about how the two partner up and know how to play together to close the gaps and cover the danger men.I"ve seen two or three Nats games live over the last few years and some of the guys have it, and some don't. I think with Bradley as a given, Edu has paired the best with him. THey've worked well typically to plug up the middle (although I still see the occasional gap between them and the center backs... Costa Rica consistently finds them and abuses the US because of it) and Bradley tends to be more productive offensively when Edu is on the field. I'd say Clarke would be the 2nd option. Off the radar for real US duty, but still part of the group, Beckerman actually does a great job reading whoever he's paired with... but it's a moo point since he won't sniff WC.

Good point about them playing flat as opposed to a more traditional role. Although I do have to add that I really dislike berkerman on the field. He's overmatched against nearly all competition.

Oh- no doubt Beckerman is not up to the level of those other guys. IMO, it's really a lack of pace AND quickness that keeps him back- and that's not exactly stuff he can learn or develop at this point. dude is always a step slow in every aspect of his game (at the international level). But he's a good field general and like I mentioned, very good at working with his team-mates defensively (other than the slowness)- doesn't seem to matter who he's paired with, the central MF gets shored up pretty well defensively... oof... just remembered seeing that 0-5 drubbing live in the Gold Cup final- he wasn't good there. I've seen him interviewed and he comes across dumb as a brick, which is a little odd because he plays fairly "smart".

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Everton-Hull City 1-1 - Cairney just scored a golazo. Howard never had a chance.

ETA: 2-1 Everton Great passing (including a wonderful back pass from Pienaar where he drew it behind him with his boot right into Arteta's path) sets up Arteta from 10 yards out. Both Donovan and Altidore started the match on the substitutes' bench.

 

[Senor Schmutzig]

Everton-Hull City 1-1 - Cairney just scored a golazo. Howard never had a chance.

ETA: 2-1 Everton Great passing (including a wonderful back pass from Pienaar where he drew it behind him with his boot right into Arteta's path) sets up Arteta from 10 yards out. Both Donovan and Altidore started the match on the substitutes' bench.

 

[scoobygang]

Spector has filled in fine at lb for West Ham a few times. If Cherundolo comes back (how badly is he injured?) I think sliding Spector over is by far our best option.

Spector only plays LB for West Ham. He's started for most of the last month and half or two months there. The only problem I see with playing him at LB is that you lose his crossing, which is a real asset on the right. Cherundolo is probably our second best FB for service into the box behind Spector, so maybe the drop-off isn't too bad. I expect Bornstein to make the team if only because he can slot back into CB (as can Spector) if necessary. My 23, as of today (I'm assuming Davies won't be fit until I see evidence otherwise).Howard, Guzan, HahnemannSpector, Dolo, Gooch, Bocanegra, DeMerit, Goodson, Bornstein, PearceHolden, Bradley, Edu, Clark, Donovan, Beasley, Feilhaber/Torres (whovever is in form),Bedoya Dempsey, Altidore, Ching, FindleyI could see Findley not making it and both Feilhaber and Torres going. I could also see Casey making it as another target forward.

 

[prefontaine]

It's not optimal, but between Boca and Simek?/Goodson/Marshall (probably in that order, although I'm really liking Goodson) I think the middle of the pitch is... guh... ok- especially if Bradley +1 play the way they're capable of defensively in front of them. I like Spector on one side... mebbe the left if Cherundolo can come back from injury to take the right. I really, really don't like what I've seen from Boca on the wing (Confed Cup aside). Too bad Castillo didn't factor... really would've liked to have seen what he brought to the team.

Spector has filled in fine at lb for West Ham a few times. If Cherundolo comes back (how badly is he injured?) I think sliding Spector over is by far our best option.

I've watched Spector play for Ham and he is an awkward left back. He provides almost no service bc he simply can't with his left (he runs around every cross and it's painful to watch). One of his best qualities is his service and you basically take that away. He's filling in because the Hammers have no other options but that doesn't make him a great choice for the national team. Boca meanwhile is a natural left back and this is also where he plays for Rennes (I never see him play so he could be awful, I really have no idea). Personally I think our depth chart on the backline should look something like this:

LB - Boca, Pearce, (Spector)

CB - Gooch, Demerit, (Boca), Goodson, Marshall

RB - Spector, Dolo

This is 4 FBs and 4 CBs and gives you extra cover with players that can play multiple positions in a pinch. Unfortunately, I think it's more likely Bradley takes Bornstein over Pearce but then you can slot him in the middle too.

 

[prefontaine]

My 23, as of today (I'm assuming Davies won't be fit until I see evidence otherwise).Howard, Guzan, HahnemannSpector, Dolo, Gooch, Bocanegra, DeMerit, Goodson, Bornstein, PearceHolden, Bradley, Edu, Clark, Donovan, Beasley, Feilhaber/Torres (whovever is in form),Bedoya Dempsey, Altidore, Ching, FindleyI could see Findley not making it and both Feilhaber and Torres going. I could also see Casey making it as another target forward.

I like this roster but I do think you see Findley dropped especially after hearing that LD was practicing as a withdrawn striker before the Dutch game. Also, as I mention, I'd take Marshall over Bornstein/Pearce bc I'd rather see Boca as a full back. Otherwise, that's my 23 too.

 

[Christo]

LD!

 

[The Kansas Comet]

LD!

Well taken goal by LD - had a nice assist on Rodwell's goal too. Should have had another assist , but Yakubu launched it over the crossbar from inside the area. Everton loves that guy - they chanted "USA!" after his goal and Rodwell picked him up like a child after celebrating his goal.

 

[prefontaine]

LD!

Well taken goal by LD - had a nice assist on Rodwell's goal too. Should have had another assist , but Yakubu launched it over the crossbar from inside the area. Everton loves that guy - they chanted "USA!" after his goal and Rodwell picked him up like a child after celebrating his goal.

Not that they don't love him but this was his last game and I think that played a bit into all the reactions.

 

[Christo]

LD!

Well taken goal by LD - had a nice assist on Rodwell's goal too. Should have had another assist , but Yakubu launched it over the crossbar from inside the area. Everton loves that guy - they chanted "USA!" after his goal and Rodwell picked him up like a child after celebrating his goal.

Not that they don't love him but this was his last game and I think that played a bit into all the reactions.

Maybe. If there's an MLS stoppage he'll stay longer.I hope they figure out a way to let him stay permanently. Screw the Galaxy. He needs to play in a top flight league.

 

[prefontaine]

LD!

Well taken goal by LD - had a nice assist on Rodwell's goal too. Should have had another assist , but Yakubu launched it over the crossbar from inside the area. Everton loves that guy - they chanted "USA!" after his goal and Rodwell picked him up like a child after celebrating his goal.

Not that they don't love him but this was his last game and I think that played a bit into all the reactions.

Maybe. If there's an MLS stoppage he'll stay longer.I hope they figure out a way to let him stay permanently. Screw the Galaxy. He needs to play in a top flight league.

Hope you are right. Here is David Moyes on Donovan:"I said to him, 'You go on and finish with a goal no," Moyes said. "It's a cruel world. I said to him coming off "That doesn't make up for the one you missed at Tottenham last week." (Moyes said that with a smile).

"I thought he finished it great. I thought when he came on he was good, and he's only just not started because he's just dropped a little bit, but the efforts he's put in for us over the last two months have been terrific."

"I hope it's not his last game (at Goodison). He's certainly here for the game next week against Birmingham. I might try and see if I can extend it a little bit longer, but at the moment the word from America is that it won't be possible, and I respect that if that's their decision."

 

[scoobygang]

I fully expect MLS to cut off their nose to spite their face. It makes no sense to keep Donovan. He's dominated the league and won championships there before and they've marketed him as well as they can. There's nothing more they can do with him.

This is the tipping point for soccer in this country. I've never seen this much interest in the game outside of a World Cup.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Finally caught up on this weekend's action and have some free time to post. I had a nice post about the USA/Netherlands game all worked out, but I never got a chance to post it....I apologize if it's kinda scattered, but it's like 4 days later now and the game is no longer fresh in my memory.

I thought the following players played well: Howard, Boca, Altidore, Beasley, Bedoya. Howard is Howard...that diving save late in the 2nd half was a world-class stop, and he couldn't have done anything on the other two goals. Boca didn't make any glaring errors (isn't it sad how "no glaring errors" = "played well" for the US backline?) and had a nice goal. Altidore got essentially no service, but I can't really fault his performance; I remember him having a chance at goal as well. Beasley and Bedoya looked great off the bench. It might have been the first time I've seen Bedoya play for the US, I can't really remember, but I think he helped his chances of making the team a lot with that performance. His link-up with Donovan/Bradley on the one scoring chance was nice. Beasley too....I've been on Beasley as much as anyone, but the pace was there, the work rate was there...it's almost like he's playing desperation football - "OMG I'm not going to make the team so I better work my ### off".

The following players were average: Demerit, Bornstein, Bradley, Donovan, Edu. Each of these guys had their moments but were overall kinda meh. Donovan wasn't very active, IMO, and neither was Bradley. I didn't think Bornstein played THAT bad - he certainly didn't play well, but I remember thinking to myself at some point in the second half that he was playing better than Spector (probably after Spector got smoked for the 3rd time). While I don't think you can fault the ref for calling that PK on him, I honestly think it was a bit of a dive. But it is what it is.

I didn't care much for the following: Spector, Torres, Findley. Spector was burned repeatedly on the flank. I know, I know....he's not a world class defender and he's taking on the speedy Dutch.....but I don't care - he just wasn't good enough to contain them. That doesn't mean he isn't the US's best option back there, sadly, but he didn't play well, IMO. Torres....I just don't see it. I know a lot of you guys have been big Torres fans for awhile, but I don't know if I've ever seen the guy play for the USMNT and been legitimately impressed. I will say that I do admire his scrappy play, something that I'd imagine he's learned playing in the Mexican league....that's something you don't see with a lot of US players. But every time he got the ball, he looked terrified. I remember cringing at one point because he received a ball and looked so skittish that he took an awful touch and just passed it right to the Dutch. Findley simply looked outclassed. I'm all for giving him a chance now that Davies is gone, and he's got the pace to play the replacement role, but he doesn't have it - at least not yet. How many times did he put his head down and just dribble into the Dutch defenders? 5? 10? He looked like he was trying....but he's just not good enough at this point.

Didn't see enough of: the rest

Those are my thoughts....as far as I can remember...

 

[El Floppo]

I fully expect MLS to cut off their nose to spite their face. It makes no sense to keep Donovan. He's dominated the league and won championships there before and they've marketed him as well as they can. There's nothing more they can do with him. This is the tipping point for soccer in this country. I've never seen this much interest in the game outside of a World Cup.

As a Fan of the sport but only a casual fan of MLS, I can honestly say that my decision to watch MLS on TV or live was never and won't ever be contingent on LD being in the league. I've grown to really appreciate the guy and everything he's done for US soccer, but his participation won't determine whether I pay time or money to see a game. I'd love for him to push his game wherever that might be.And speaking of the US and tipping points/interest in the WC... did the Brazilian penalty kicking controversy (the run up, stall, and then take the PK) make as big a splash where you guys are? I want to say it was on the front page of the NYTimes (or at least, front page of the NYT Sports section) and I heard from three different people about it (as their resident "soccer" friend).At first I thought it was just the typical soccer bashing in teh media (US sports fans love to fixate on the cheating aspects, particularly the diving/faking), but maybe it's just beefed up soccer coverage leading up to the WC?

 

[scoobygang]

Finally caught up on this weekend's action and have some free time to post. I had a nice post about the USA/Netherlands game all worked out, but I never got a chance to post it....I apologize if it's kinda scattered, but it's like 4 days later now and the game is no longer fresh in my memory.I thought the following players played well: Howard, Boca, Altidore, Beasley, Bedoya. Howard is Howard...that diving save late in the 2nd half was a world-class stop, and he couldn't have done anything on the other two goals. Boca didn't make any glaring errors (isn't it sad how "no glaring errors" = "played well" for the US backline?) and had a nice goal. Altidore got essentially no service, but I can't really fault his performance; I remember him having a chance at goal as well. Beasley and Bedoya looked great off the bench. It might have been the first time I've seen Bedoya play for the US, I can't really remember, but I think he helped his chances of making the team a lot with that performance. His link-up with Donovan/Bradley on the one scoring chance was nice. Beasley too....I've been on Beasley as much as anyone, but the pace was there, the work rate was there...it's almost like he's playing desperation football - "OMG I'm not going to make the team so I better work my ### off".The following players were average: Demerit, Bornstein, Bradley, Donovan, Edu. Each of these guys had their moments but were overall kinda meh. Donovan wasn't very active, IMO, and neither was Bradley. I didn't think Bornstein played THAT bad - he certainly didn't play well, but I remember thinking to myself at some point in the second half that he was playing better than Spector (probably after Spector got smoked for the 3rd time). While I don't think you can fault the ref for calling that PK on him, I honestly think it was a bit of a dive. But it is what it is.I didn't care much for the following: Spector, Torres, Findley. Spector was burned repeatedly on the flank. I know, I know....he's not a world class defender and he's taking on the speedy Dutch.....but I don't care - he just wasn't good enough to contain them. That doesn't mean he isn't the US's best option back there, sadly, but he didn't play well, IMO. Torres....I just don't see it. I know a lot of you guys have been big Torres fans for awhile, but I don't know if I've ever seen the guy play for the USMNT and been legitimately impressed. I will say that I do admire his scrappy play, something that I'd imagine he's learned playing in the Mexican league....that's something you don't see with a lot of US players. But every time he got the ball, he looked terrified. I remember cringing at one point because he received a ball and looked so skittish that he took an awful touch and just passed it right to the Dutch. Findley simply looked outclassed. I'm all for giving him a chance now that Davies is gone, and he's got the pace to play the replacement role, but he doesn't have it - at least not yet. How many times did he put his head down and just dribble into the Dutch defenders? 5? 10? He looked like he was trying....but he's just not good enough at this point.Didn't see enough of: the restThose are my thoughts....as far as I can remember...

I don't disagree with any of that. You probably haven't seen Bedoya with the Nats before as this was just his 2nd cap. But I like what I've seen, and he had an excellent second half of the season in Sweden apparently. Torres has never done it for the Nats, save in spurts. If he's not going to show composure on the ball, I don't see a place for him. Unfortunately, Feilhaber seems to have lost his Confed Cup form too. And before Lhucks comes in here with a popcorn smiley, Adu has been on the bench at Aris the last two or three games. We'd all like Spector to have more pace. In my dreams, Marvelle Wynn suddenly develops the skill of a Spector or Cherundolo. But that's not happening. I'd rather they run by him on the wing than cut inside him. I actually think Bornstein has a lot of potential. he's quick enough. He's not unskilled. I just don't see him growing in MLS. Right now, he unfortunately makes mistakes. He's the guy who gave up the PK to Slovakia too.I put Findley on the team, but I think he's generally dog####. I think Casey is a better player, but Casey is sooooo slow that I just don't see the luxury of taking him and Ching. We don't have another Charlie Davies. Either we play Demps at striker or take our chances with Ching, IMO.

 

[El Floppo]

Finally caught up on this weekend's action and have some free time to post. I had a nice post about the USA/Netherlands game all worked out, but I never got a chance to post it....I apologize if it's kinda scattered, but it's like 4 days later now and the game is no longer fresh in my memory.I thought the following players played well: Howard, Boca, Altidore, Beasley, Bedoya. Howard is Howard...that diving save late in the 2nd half was a world-class stop, and he couldn't have done anything on the other two goals. Boca didn't make any glaring errors (isn't it sad how "no glaring errors" = "played well" for the US backline?) and had a nice goal. Altidore got essentially no service, but I can't really fault his performance; I remember him having a chance at goal as well. Beasley and Bedoya looked great off the bench. It might have been the first time I've seen Bedoya play for the US, I can't really remember, but I think he helped his chances of making the team a lot with that performance. His link-up with Donovan/Bradley on the one scoring chance was nice. Beasley too....I've been on Beasley as much as anyone, but the pace was there, the work rate was there...it's almost like he's playing desperation football - "OMG I'm not going to make the team so I better work my ### off".The following players were average: Demerit, Bornstein, Bradley, Donovan, Edu. Each of these guys had their moments but were overall kinda meh. Donovan wasn't very active, IMO, and neither was Bradley. I didn't think Bornstein played THAT bad - he certainly didn't play well, but I remember thinking to myself at some point in the second half that he was playing better than Spector (probably after Spector got smoked for the 3rd time). While I don't think you can fault the ref for calling that PK on him, I honestly think it was a bit of a dive. But it is what it is.I didn't care much for the following: Spector, Torres, Findley. Spector was burned repeatedly on the flank. I know, I know....he's not a world class defender and he's taking on the speedy Dutch.....but I don't care - he just wasn't good enough to contain them. That doesn't mean he isn't the US's best option back there, sadly, but he didn't play well, IMO. Torres....I just don't see it. I know a lot of you guys have been big Torres fans for awhile, but I don't know if I've ever seen the guy play for the USMNT and been legitimately impressed. I will say that I do admire his scrappy play, something that I'd imagine he's learned playing in the Mexican league....that's something you don't see with a lot of US players. But every time he got the ball, he looked terrified. I remember cringing at one point because he received a ball and looked so skittish that he took an awful touch and just passed it right to the Dutch. Findley simply looked outclassed. I'm all for giving him a chance now that Davies is gone, and he's got the pace to play the replacement role, but he doesn't have it - at least not yet. How many times did he put his head down and just dribble into the Dutch defenders? 5? 10? He looked like he was trying....but he's just not good enough at this point.Didn't see enough of: the restThose are my thoughts....as far as I can remember...

NIce stuff.Nice also to see somebody else not up Bornstein's butt after that game.I saw somebody else in here kinda bash Howard's performance... huh? Not a foot wrong all game, IMO.Don't reeally agree with you about Spector's game. He got burned a lot by skills and quickness, but I liked his positioning throughout the game and he's more than capable distributing the ball. I agree with the previous comments that he's best used on the Right to utilize his crossing. But Cherundolo is pretty equal in that regard, and better with the ball at his feet- one of the better pure dribblers of the ball on the US, IMO.Findley... completely agree with everything you said. But again, vs Jozy who was so starved for service, Findley was actually getting the ball quite a lot. Tough to call because so much of it is happening off-camera, but I've got to assume Findley was just working his ### off and using good instincts to make those runs to get into position to get the ball... ad that's half the battle for a forward, but I'm used to seeing Jozy doing better in tath regard. Or Jozy's role was more central and Findley's role was about making the diagonal runs (which would suprise me).LD... I think the Dutch knew to shut him down fast and not allow him space to go at players at speed. Not a good game for him.Torres... guh. Don't know what to think of him. First couple times I saw him (I'm thinking particularly of the CR WCQ game in CR) he had the confidence/game-speed/ability to hold the ball int he MF that made him really stand out as a potential style-changer for the US and put me into the "fan" camp as you say. But that was a horrid game vs the Dutch. Totally agree with you- he just looked scared.DMB... wow! he looked like the DMB of old instead of the one-touch pass backwards guy he turned into. Saw some highlights from the recent Rangers game and he looked the same in that as well. Might have put himself not just back in the mix to make the team, but to actually play an important role (starting or otherwise).Bedoya... dunno. Some nice link up play finally, but some clangers too. Hard to comment for me yet.Demerit! ... that's who I was calling Simek earlier. Great defensively winning all balls near him and pairing well wtih Boca (and Bradley/Torres/Edu) to plug up the middle. Totally useless distributing the ball.Edu... I thought he looked like one of the better players for the US, particularly with how changed the shape of the US attack was when he came in (especially Bradley's involvement).I heard Alexi Lalas complain that the final score and improved US performance in the 2nd half should'nt be over-valued- that when teams substitute as much as the Dutch, the shape of the game is bound to change and not necessarily reflect the "real" score and flow of the game. Yeah- I guess. But the US subbed just as much. Which got me thinking... the US really did look better, and maybe even the better side as the 2nd half (and number of subs) rolled on. Credit fitness, sure. But the US kept their shape as a team FAR better than the Dutch when new guys came in and were better able to utilize a team strategy beyond just playing individually well (which the Dutch will always win, no matter how many subs come in). So... "shape as a team"... "team stategy"... I'm talking about coaching here, folks. And Bradley won the day by a mile, despite the result.

 

[Native]

LD!

Link?

 

[Moe.]

It's not optimal, but between Boca and Simek?/Goodson/Marshall (probably in that order, although I'm really liking Goodson) I think the middle of the pitch is... guh... ok- especially if Bradley +1 play the way they're capable of defensively in front of them. I like Spector on one side... mebbe the left if Cherundolo can come back from injury to take the right. I really, really don't like what I've seen from Boca on the wing (Confed Cup aside). Too bad Castillo didn't factor... really would've liked to have seen what he brought to the team.

Spector has filled in fine at lb for West Ham a few times. If Cherundolo comes back (how badly is he injured?) I think sliding Spector over is by far our best option.

I've watched Spector play for Ham and he is an awkward left back. He provides almost no service bc he simply can't with his left (he runs around every cross and it's painful to watch). One of his best qualities is his service and you basically take that away. He's filling in because the Hammers have no other options but that doesn't make him a great choice for the national team. Boca meanwhile is a natural left back and this is also where he plays for Rennes (I never see him play so he could be awful, I really have no idea).

Agree but I'd rather have Spector on the left and just not worry about our lb getting forward than have Bornstein out there making bone-headed plays and getting beat like a drum. Cherundolo can hit a cross just fine from the right. I don't ever get to watch Rennes, but I don't think Bocanegra is an auto-start for them, he scored a goal yesterday though. My memory is terrible but didn't Bocanegra play lb at the Confed Cup and do pretty poorly?