Steve Tasker
Footballguy
He's one of the best keepers in the world.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
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SierraKiloBravo
Footballguy
He's certainly showing it today.
Moe.
Footballguy
Are you done?
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm just going to assume you're either trying to fish us into getting pissed or you legitimately don't understand the concepts of the game...
prefontaine
Footballguy
Charlie Davies came on at the half vs Bordeaux today and put two in the back of the net (61,92) but final was still Sochaux 2- 3 Bordeaux. He came on in the 69th minute of their first game last week. Looks like at worst he is going to be a key man off the bench but today's match may force his way into the first eleven.
SierraKiloBravo
Footballguy
Not fishing. I watch Arsenal matches regularly. i understand the basic concepts of the game. Most of my point was to simply voice my opinion that American footballers are 2nd rate at best. On the fourth goal, Cesc completely embarrassed Howard. Most of the other goals likely weren't Howard's sole fault and the first goal from Denilson was a world-class finish.
prefontaine
Footballguy
If you are not fishing, this is a pretty bad example to illustrate your point. It's like watching Peyton Manning throw a pick and calling him 2nd rate. I mean, he's no Tom Brady.
You chose the wrong guy to pick on if that was your purpose. Howard's considered to be one of the best GKs in the world.http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story...%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Last edited by a moderator:
Native
Footballguy
Highlights of the game. He almost set up a third goal as well.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8QO-ZH73q8
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Well, you're contradicting yourself then. On one hand, you hint that the scoreline is indicative of Howard's performance. To a certain extent it is, and for a casual fan looking at the score, they'll think to themselves "Howard sucks". But you just said above that 1, maybe 2 of the goals could be considered Howard's fault. If you put Petr Cech or Iker Casillas or whoever in goal, the scoreline is still a 5-1 or 6-1 thrashing. You seem to be admitting this point in the post above...yet you still want to bag on the US keeper? I don't get it...
SierraKiloBravo
Footballguy
Maybe I was unnecessarily obtuse then. Again, my point was that it's my opinion that American footballers generally don't have the chops in comparison to their European counterparts. I tried to acknowledge that the defeat wasn't solely his fault by acknowledging the Denilson goal, which was the reason for the tone of my response to you, Tasker. So, maybe because of that, I may have been fishing a bit to see if anyone would just flatly defend Howard because he's the American #1.
I said most of the other goals likely weren't his fault because, honestly, I stopped watching after the match went 4-0. As for the goals themselves ... Denilson's goal was just a great shot. The Vermaelen header looks to be largely on Howard as it seems like he could have come out to challenge that ball in the air instead of just standing flat-footed on his line watching the paint dry. Same for Gallas' header. On both those headers, Howard appears to be either standing still or moving back toward the net instead of trying to attack the balls in flight. Is that not the play there? Wouldn't it be a better, more aggressive play to attempt to attack those balls in the air?
With Fabregas' first goal, Howard flat missed.
Looking back at the replay, Fabregas' second was the defense's fault, as he basically went down the middle of the pitch like he was the only guy on it. Haven't seen the sixth. So, by my count, that's three that at least to me appear to be on Howard.
Perhaps I simply don't understand goalkeeper play. I welcome any commentary on this.
Christo - From that article, I see a lot of him being touted by Everton's manager, who should be touting his own players. Wouldn't that sort of commentary be expected? I mean, if Moyes says anything less than essentially "Tim can be the best and he's our guy", doesn't the Everton fan base go completely mad and respond with "Well if you don't like the guy, get him out of there!"
Pre - I don't see how the one pick analogy is relevant. One pick isn't 6-1. Seems like the better analogy would be Manning throwing three picks in a game that all led to opposition touchdowns.
Maybe the guy just had a really bad day. Maybe I'm overly critical. Again, I welcome any commentary on any of this.
I said most of the other goals likely weren't his fault because, honestly, I stopped watching after the match went 4-0. As for the goals themselves ... Denilson's goal was just a great shot. The Vermaelen header looks to be largely on Howard as it seems like he could have come out to challenge that ball in the air instead of just standing flat-footed on his line watching the paint dry. Same for Gallas' header. On both those headers, Howard appears to be either standing still or moving back toward the net instead of trying to attack the balls in flight. Is that not the play there? Wouldn't it be a better, more aggressive play to attempt to attack those balls in the air?
With Fabregas' first goal, Howard flat missed.
Looking back at the replay, Fabregas' second was the defense's fault, as he basically went down the middle of the pitch like he was the only guy on it. Haven't seen the sixth. So, by my count, that's three that at least to me appear to be on Howard.
Perhaps I simply don't understand goalkeeper play. I welcome any commentary on this.
Christo - From that article, I see a lot of him being touted by Everton's manager, who should be touting his own players. Wouldn't that sort of commentary be expected? I mean, if Moyes says anything less than essentially "Tim can be the best and he's our guy", doesn't the Everton fan base go completely mad and respond with "Well if you don't like the guy, get him out of there!"
Pre - I don't see how the one pick analogy is relevant. One pick isn't 6-1. Seems like the better analogy would be Manning throwing three picks in a game that all led to opposition touchdowns.
Maybe the guy just had a really bad day. Maybe I'm overly critical. Again, I welcome any commentary on any of this.
Tim Howard is the only American that you could make a reasonable case for being in the top 15 or so players in their position worldwide. He could have done better with the goal where Fabregas slipped it between his legs, but other than that he wasn't really to blame for the others. Maybe a world-class keeper like Buffon or Casillas would've stopped one or two of the other goals with a couple of outstanding saves, but you can't expect a keeper to do that on a regular basis.
He's comparing Howard to the best in the world. The fact of the matter is, if he wasn't one of the best in the world Everton would have a different GK. There's no way Moyes keeps an American in the line-up if he's not one of the best.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My off the cuff reaction is this is about right - possibly a name one could include in the 15 or so goalkeepers in the world. Up until a year or two ago, I still would've named Brad Friedel the best active American goalkeeper, but I think he's almost 40 now and Howard is probably about 25.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
With a free kick from those angles, I would say that the GK shouldn't come out of the net. More often than not in a situation like that, the GK fails to clear the ball in traffic or misses it altogether, leaving him out of position. The marking on both of those goals was absolutely terrible....no one should be getting a free header in the box.IMO, neither of those goals were his fault, and I'm not just saying this because he's Tim Howard.
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
:ignore:
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Clear penalty not called against Spurs.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm watching Liverpool/Spurs, haven't read the posts in here, but ####....I was going to put Assou-Ekotto on my fantasy team, but I wasn't 100% sure if he was going to have the starting job this year. 
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Who's got the link to the La Liga fantasy game? Who else is in?
Sebowski
Footballguy
So far it is just me and a friend of mine. Invite whoever you want. The good players are really expensive. I haven't really been able to get a team I am really happy with yet. 100mil and Ronaldo, Messi, Ibra, Villa, all close to 30mil themselves.
They are going to miss Alonso. I have a feeling we'll be seeing Benayoun in the starting lineup from now on.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I loved it when the announcer said "another uninspiring performance from Ryan Babel" as Benayoun came in. Babel can be such an exciting player at times, but he disappears completely from games far too often. I'm surprised Benayoun wasn't in the lineup to begin with.
Glen Johnson is really going to help them. Bradley needs to show the US FBs a tape of his game today.
Bonzai
Footballguy
Yeah.Lucas is awful. I'm anxious to see what Aquilani adds.
prefontaine
Footballguy
To watch one game, show up and start acting like an English football snob looking down your nose at all things American is the epitome of toolishness. So for your sake, I really hope this is a fishing trip.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
He made my prediction look good today.....that run to earn the PK was pretty nice.
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Yossi is the definition of "sparkplug". He always adds to the attack when he comes in.That was a definite penalty at the end, but Liverpool shouldn't have had to rely on a call at the end to get at least a point. Hope they bounce back with a relatively easy schedule the rest of September.
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
I was very impressed watching him last season in the limited action he saw. Hopefully he'll be a fixture in the lineup more often this season. I missed the game today, but from the sounds of it, we could see more of Benny this year.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I wouldn't really call it limited action....he made 32 EPL appearances, 7 CL appearances, and 1 FA Cup appearance...
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
Yeah, but he wasn't a regular starter though, was he? He got more PT when Gerrard went down last year if I recall.I wouldn't really call it limited action....he made 32 EPL appearances, 7 CL appearances, and 1 FA Cup appearance...I was very impressed watching him last season in the limited action he saw. Hopefully he'll be a fixture in the lineup more often this season. I missed the game today, but from the sounds of it, we could see more of Benny this year.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I still think Liverpool won't win the league - look at their subs bench today.
38 Andrea Dossena (SUB)
15 Yossi Benayoun (SUB)
10 Andriy Voronin (SUB)
1 Diego (SUB)
26 Jay Spearing (SUB)
34 Martin Kelly (SUB)
40 Daniel Sanchez Ayala (SUB)
I know Aquilani is injured but they still don't have enough quality over 38 games IMO. With Torres and Gerrard the can beat anybody on any given day and Reina showed today why he's one of the best keepers in the world, but it's still a marathon to win the league and I just don't see a repeat of last year's league success.
38 Andrea Dossena (SUB)
15 Yossi Benayoun (SUB)
10 Andriy Voronin (SUB)
1 Diego (SUB)
26 Jay Spearing (SUB)
34 Martin Kelly (SUB)
40 Daniel Sanchez Ayala (SUB)
I know Aquilani is injured but they still don't have enough quality over 38 games IMO. With Torres and Gerrard the can beat anybody on any given day and Reina showed today why he's one of the best keepers in the world, but it's still a marathon to win the league and I just don't see a repeat of last year's league success.
This would clearly be the first time you have seen Tim Howard play?
Kendall
I heart waffles
Did they ever. There was no distribution from the midfield until Benayoun came on, Gerrard came back and Kuyt went up. Babel did nothing. I think he touched the ball three times. Lucas is like a baby Mascherano. That was painful to watch. Keane should have ended the game in the first half.Christo said:
brewer
Footballguy
Most complete game that I have ever seen Denilson play. I couldn't stand the guy last year, but he is young. And lets face it, there's a pretty good chance that Wenger knows more about soccer than I do. Hopefully Denilson is starting to get 'it'.I was just about to come in here and ##### about how Denilson sucks.Let's hold off on that for a little bit....1-0 Arsenal
scoobygang
Footballguy
Rubbish American footballer Charlie Davies grabbed himself a brace in one half of work against the defending Ligue 1 champions in Bordeaux if anyone is interested.
andy_b
Footballguy
A lot of what I am about to type was likely stated earlier in the thread but I was out all last week.
Argentina is now in 4th place but only 2 points out of 5th place in South America qualifying, and their next game they travel to Brazil.
This is obviously of interest because the 4th place team in CONCACAF has to play the 5th place team from South America.
Anything less than 6 points in the last 4 games and I think the US ends up in 4th. One could even see them ending up in 4th with 6 points pretty easily.
The US not only has to beat El Salvador, but thanks to Honduras beating Costa Rica by 4, the US needs to win by as many goals as possible to try and regain the tiebreaker from Honduras, although Honduras may put a beat down on T&T in their next game.
Here is the 4 team break down:
US: home to ELS, @T&T, @Honduras, home to CR
Mexico: @CR, home to Honduras, home to ELS, @T&T
Honduras: home to T&T, @Mexico, home to US, @ELS
CR: home to Mexico, @ELS, home to T&T, @US
All 4 teams play the two weaker teams. I would argue Mexico has the easiest schedule left and I could see them taking 9 points.
The US's qualification could very well rest on the last game at home against CR. With CR getting thrashed against Honduras, their is no guarantee(at this time) that they will have already qualified by the last game and the US could very well be facing their top squad.
Argentina is now in 4th place but only 2 points out of 5th place in South America qualifying, and their next game they travel to Brazil.
This is obviously of interest because the 4th place team in CONCACAF has to play the 5th place team from South America.
Anything less than 6 points in the last 4 games and I think the US ends up in 4th. One could even see them ending up in 4th with 6 points pretty easily.
The US not only has to beat El Salvador, but thanks to Honduras beating Costa Rica by 4, the US needs to win by as many goals as possible to try and regain the tiebreaker from Honduras, although Honduras may put a beat down on T&T in their next game.
Here is the 4 team break down:
US: home to ELS, @T&T, @Honduras, home to CR
Mexico: @CR, home to Honduras, home to ELS, @T&T
Honduras: home to T&T, @Mexico, home to US, @ELS
CR: home to Mexico, @ELS, home to T&T, @US
All 4 teams play the two weaker teams. I would argue Mexico has the easiest schedule left and I could see them taking 9 points.
The US's qualification could very well rest on the last game at home against CR. With CR getting thrashed against Honduras, their is no guarantee(at this time) that they will have already qualified by the last game and the US could very well be facing their top squad.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Apparently he was a little dinged up and wouldn't have been able to play the full 90.
And yes I never thought that nugget would come from a Bill Simmons article.
andy_b
Footballguy
wow, is that a great article by Simmons.I know he has been a slight closet soccer fan in the past, and his writing shows that he is really starting to become a fan, the cynical side of me says that people like Simmons and Cowerd who are suddenly speaking of soccer in positives and the fact that ESPN is now showing EPL and La Liga games is not coincidental.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Bob wanted experience over speed.I'm not sure it worked as Ching didn't do much, and the Boca was the goat of the game.
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