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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
- Start date
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Rules more than anything has ever ruled.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I totally agree here, but have to laugh a little."English Football" being held in such high esteem is pretty new. Used to be derided as a kick-and-run league with a bunch of thugs... and not that long ago- like in the 80s. I remember watching the various leagues back then and finding the English 1st division (when did they start the EPL... 90s?) almost unwatchable. So little skill moving the ball forward with the ball at feet- ust powered the ball downfield and get the big guys on it. I remember Gascoigne changing things up a bit, but this thing we all think of as a quality or at least entertaining league, IMO, is a recent happening. Italian and German leagues were where the "beautiful" game was played (and not coincidentally where the money and top players played).Trust me, I used to feel the exact same way. The quality isn't as good - no one other than Alexi Lalas will argue otherwise. But in my experience, the thing that really did it for me (and this is going to sound weird) is that there are pecuiliar intricacies about the American game that make it a completely different game then England, Spain, South America.If you're watching it for the same reasons you watch the European leagues, you're bound to be eternally disappointed, no offense. You're going to be disappointed because you're used to watching the buildup, the passing, the traditional skill of the European players.
But there are some things that make the American game great. The pure attacking mentality of the game is always a joy for me to watch. The purist in me loves seeing 0-0 games, sometimes those can be the most exciting games of all. But there's a certain beauty to the counterattacking styles of two teams just going balls-out in a 3-3 draw. Another thing that I enjoy seeing that some people would consider a detractor, is the ability of one player to take over a game. I know many of us watched Messi take over the Arsenal game this past week, but the best players in MLS tend to take over games like that on a regular basis. While it does indicate a significant disparity in the talent, it's cool seeing Stuart Holden or Landon Donovan go off and just dominate the competition. In addition, despite the disparity between the best and the worst players, the parity in MLS between the teams themselves is something refreshing. How often have you watched Manchester United/City or Chelsea absolutely dismantle a team like Bolton or Hull this season alone? I tend to tape and play through most of the games that are shown here, and more often than not, when one of the top clubs are playing a game, it ends up with a lopsided possession/run of play, and sometimes an even more lopsided scoreline. While blowouts do happen in MLS, I've found the general parity of the league to be fun. The Galaxy have probably the two best players in the league, when healthy, and they don't come close to dominating anyone. I've been one to complain about the salary limits from time to time, but it probably is best for a league at this stage of development.
You're not going to see the wonder goals of the world's elite and the brilliant buildups towards chances on goal - but that's what the European leagues are for. You'll see a lot of giveaways and there'll be times when you'll kinda sit there and laugh at the television....but it's a beautiful game. It might not be the beautiful game you're used to seeing, but it's a beautiful game nonetheless - beautiful in a different way. It's a lot of fun to watch once you get past the initial snobbiness of "it's not English football" (that used to be me...I'm sure if you went back and hunted for posts from like 2006 in here, I was saying the same thing). No, it isn't....it will never be English football. But that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable to watch.
MLS is a ways away definitely. But I'm going to say probably a generation away. I feel like the MLS finally has kids playing in it who actually grew up with it as a somewhat viable entity. Now that it's established, it's going to be the next group of kids born now and going to see games with a little bit of quality and real passion in the stands, who will take the league to the next level. Floppolinho is coming to rock the world.
El Floppo
Footballguy
yeah, everything used to over the top. i rememeber that, too. of course, i remember watching Budesliga matches in the mid-70s on the local PBS station in Philly, too. those were awesome.I totally agree here, but have to laugh a little."English Football" being held in such high esteem is pretty new. Used to be derided as a kick-and-run league with a bunch of thugs... and not that long ago- like in the 80s. I remember watching the various leagues back then and finding the English 1st division (when did they start the EPL... 90s?) almost unwatchable. So little skill moving the ball forward with the ball at feet- ust powered the ball downfield and get the big guys on it. I remember Gascoigne changing things up a bit, but this thing we all think of as a quality or at least entertaining league, IMO, is a recent happening. Italian and German leagues were where the "beautiful" game was played (and not coincidentally where the money and top players played).Trust me, I used to feel the exact same way. The quality isn't as good - no one other than Alexi Lalas will argue otherwise. But in my experience, the thing that really did it for me (and this is going to sound weird) is that there are pecuiliar intricacies about the American game that make it a completely different game then England, Spain, South America.If you're watching it for the same reasons you watch the European leagues, you're bound to be eternally disappointed, no offense. You're going to be disappointed because you're used to watching the buildup, the passing, the traditional skill of the European players.
But there are some things that make the American game great. The pure attacking mentality of the game is always a joy for me to watch. The purist in me loves seeing 0-0 games, sometimes those can be the most exciting games of all. But there's a certain beauty to the counterattacking styles of two teams just going balls-out in a 3-3 draw. Another thing that I enjoy seeing that some people would consider a detractor, is the ability of one player to take over a game. I know many of us watched Messi take over the Arsenal game this past week, but the best players in MLS tend to take over games like that on a regular basis. While it does indicate a significant disparity in the talent, it's cool seeing Stuart Holden or Landon Donovan go off and just dominate the competition. In addition, despite the disparity between the best and the worst players, the parity in MLS between the teams themselves is something refreshing. How often have you watched Manchester United/City or Chelsea absolutely dismantle a team like Bolton or Hull this season alone? I tend to tape and play through most of the games that are shown here, and more often than not, when one of the top clubs are playing a game, it ends up with a lopsided possession/run of play, and sometimes an even more lopsided scoreline. While blowouts do happen in MLS, I've found the general parity of the league to be fun. The Galaxy have probably the two best players in the league, when healthy, and they don't come close to dominating anyone. I've been one to complain about the salary limits from time to time, but it probably is best for a league at this stage of development.
MLS is a ways away definitely. But I'm going to say probably a generation away. I feel like the MLS finally has kids playing in it who actually grew up with it as a somewhat viable entity. Now that it's established, it's going to be the next group of kids born now and going to see games with a little bit of quality and real passion in the stands, who will take the league to the next level. Floppolinho is coming to rock the world.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The relative quality of the major euro leagues seems to be cyclical. There was a decade or so around the early - mid 80's in which Serie A was far and away the best league in the world, and of course paid the highest salaries. The Bundesliga also had its glory years. Spain and Holland have always been dominated by 2-3 clubs, with much weaker teams in the bottom half. England has been very strong for 6-7 years now, but we can see in the current UEFA leagues that dominance is waning. That's no surprise, as none of the big 4 english teams have added any players to speak of in the last few transfer windows, while selling several huge players. Meanwhile, the top clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany have all been buyers.I totally agree here, but have to laugh a little."English Football" being held in such high esteem is pretty new. Used to be derided as a kick-and-run league with a bunch of thugs... and not that long ago- like in the 80s. I remember watching the various leagues back then and finding the English 1st division (when did they start the EPL... 90s?) almost unwatchable. So little skill moving the ball forward with the ball at feet- ust powered the ball downfield and get the big guys on it. I remember Gascoigne changing things up a bit, but this thing we all think of as a quality or at least entertaining league, IMO, is a recent happening. Italian and German leagues were where the "beautiful" game was played (and not coincidentally where the money and top players played).Trust me, I used to feel the exact same way. The quality isn't as good - no one other than Alexi Lalas will argue otherwise. But in my experience, the thing that really did it for me (and this is going to sound weird) is that there are pecuiliar intricacies about the American game that make it a completely different game then England, Spain, South America.If you're watching it for the same reasons you watch the European leagues, you're bound to be eternally disappointed, no offense. You're going to be disappointed because you're used to watching the buildup, the passing, the traditional skill of the European players.
But there are some things that make the American game great. The pure attacking mentality of the game is always a joy for me to watch. The purist in me loves seeing 0-0 games, sometimes those can be the most exciting games of all. But there's a certain beauty to the counterattacking styles of two teams just going balls-out in a 3-3 draw. Another thing that I enjoy seeing that some people would consider a detractor, is the ability of one player to take over a game. I know many of us watched Messi take over the Arsenal game this past week, but the best players in MLS tend to take over games like that on a regular basis. While it does indicate a significant disparity in the talent, it's cool seeing Stuart Holden or Landon Donovan go off and just dominate the competition. In addition, despite the disparity between the best and the worst players, the parity in MLS between the teams themselves is something refreshing. How often have you watched Manchester United/City or Chelsea absolutely dismantle a team like Bolton or Hull this season alone? I tend to tape and play through most of the games that are shown here, and more often than not, when one of the top clubs are playing a game, it ends up with a lopsided possession/run of play, and sometimes an even more lopsided scoreline. While blowouts do happen in MLS, I've found the general parity of the league to be fun. The Galaxy have probably the two best players in the league, when healthy, and they don't come close to dominating anyone. I've been one to complain about the salary limits from time to time, but it probably is best for a league at this stage of development.
You're not going to see the wonder goals of the world's elite and the brilliant buildups towards chances on goal - but that's what the European leagues are for. You'll see a lot of giveaways and there'll be times when you'll kinda sit there and laugh at the television....but it's a beautiful game. It might not be the beautiful game you're used to seeing, but it's a beautiful game nonetheless - beautiful in a different way. It's a lot of fun to watch once you get past the initial snobbiness of "it's not English football" (that used to be me...I'm sure if you went back and hunted for posts from like 2006 in here, I was saying the same thing). No, it isn't....it will never be English football. But that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable to watch.
MLS is a ways away definitely. But I'm going to say probably a generation away. I feel like the MLS finally has kids playing in it who actually grew up with it as a somewhat viable entity. Now that it's established, it's going to be the next group of kids born now and going to see games with a little bit of quality and real passion in the stands, who will take the league to the next level. Floppolinho is coming to rock the world.
andy_b
Footballguy
andy_b
Footballguy
it doesn't really.The US, like most other sides will go to camp in middle to late May. The US has 3 more games before the world cupMay 25 in Conn vs Czech RepublicMay 29 in Phili vs Turkey (get away game)June 5 in South Africa vs Australia
andy_b
Footballguy
Here is the latest stadium renderings (ie pron) for the new KC stadium. Looks sweet
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/451474...8b6af7aac_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2773/451538...1789640ed_o.jpg
andy_b
Footballguy
More stadium pron (this time for Steve). Here is the new stand and grass field installed during the off season at BMO. New stand holds ~1700 people, raising capacity up to 21,700 I believe.
http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/file...ssTraining6.jpg
http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/file...ssTraining6.jpg
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
To be fair, I was born in the late 80s.El Floppo said:
andy_b
Footballguy
we can start camp any time we want. getting the players released is a whole other topic. That is what makes the Mexican situation so unique. All the Mexican clubs released their players early which will not happen in most league.Interesting...because our guys are so spread out it would make sense to me that we would start camp earlier.andy_b said:
andy_b
Footballguy
yeah. Everything Floppo said is true. New comers think the EPL has looked this "elegant" always but it hasn't.Before the stadium boom, during the hooligan error, when foreigners were frowned upon, the English league was fun but it was nothing like it is today. It was only once they started to bring in foreign players (older ones at first and then eventually struck gold with Cantona), did the league start to make its change into what we see today as arguably the best league in the world.I am not sure how far away MLS is but it will be at least a couple of decades or more. MLS could use its own Cantona like lightening rod, preferably American and of Mexican heritage to cover all basesTo be fair, I was born in the late 80s.El Floppo said:
El Floppo
Footballguy
it wasn't 9 months after my prom, was it?To be fair, I was born in the late 80s.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Hey Z- re: pickup games ...
Having played pickup games across Europe and the US, here's my tried and tested advice:
Step 1- find a bunch of people playing- probably a bunch of games in the East Bay. I think I played in a summer league in Berkeley and I remember seeing pickup games to the side of the field we used.
Step 2- ask to play.
It really isn't more than that. If you see guys waiting next to a game, ask who's got next game. If not, ask one of the people playing if you can join- sometimes you need to find another person to make it even. I'd also always ask to kick around with one or two of the people waiting to play- once they saw I could knock it around, it made it easier to join up.
For me, I liked finding a game that had a mix of good and meh players- I wanted to be challenged by the good players, but I wanted to feel good about myself by beating bad players no matter how out of game/shape I was.
I guess you could bring them, but I wouldnt worry about cleats or shinguards at first. Once you find a regular game, suss out the overall scene and go with what the crowd does. You don't want to be the only guy in cleats (although I doubt anybody would blame you for the shinguards... now that I think about the whacks I've taken in pickup games... definitely have the shinguards). Oh- don't ever, ever slide-tackle. Big no-no for pickup games. don't be that guy.
Having played pickup games across Europe and the US, here's my tried and tested advice:
Step 1- find a bunch of people playing- probably a bunch of games in the East Bay. I think I played in a summer league in Berkeley and I remember seeing pickup games to the side of the field we used.
Step 2- ask to play.
It really isn't more than that. If you see guys waiting next to a game, ask who's got next game. If not, ask one of the people playing if you can join- sometimes you need to find another person to make it even. I'd also always ask to kick around with one or two of the people waiting to play- once they saw I could knock it around, it made it easier to join up.
For me, I liked finding a game that had a mix of good and meh players- I wanted to be challenged by the good players, but I wanted to feel good about myself by beating bad players no matter how out of game/shape I was.
I guess you could bring them, but I wouldnt worry about cleats or shinguards at first. Once you find a regular game, suss out the overall scene and go with what the crowd does. You don't want to be the only guy in cleats (although I doubt anybody would blame you for the shinguards... now that I think about the whacks I've taken in pickup games... definitely have the shinguards). Oh- don't ever, ever slide-tackle. Big no-no for pickup games. don't be that guy.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Not sure if this was posted before, but a search didn't show anything. This should be very interesting and a fantastic marketing ploy.
World Cup in 3D
World Cup in 3D
gianmarco
Footballguy
Also, a couple of the new Pepsi ads.
One of the better ones
Mildly humorous, at best
There's more of them that you can click on after each video. I sure hope these get better.
One of the better ones
Mildly humorous, at best
There's more of them that you can click on after each video. I sure hope these get better.
El Floppo
Footballguy
oof.
andy_b
Footballguy
yeah this will be cool. We did talk about it when the news was first released a few months back.I don't know of anyone who will has a 3d TV but I may wander down to a store during a game I don't care too much about just to sample the game assuming the store has access to the ESPN 3D station. I am not sure what supplier is carrying it yet.
El Floppo
Footballguy
yeah- I'm still using a crt tv, so this technology will probably have to wait to hit the floppo household until the 2030 WC.
andy_b
Footballguy
ESPN has M. Bradley as their front and center lead story right now (these change quickly)
http://espn.go.com/
http://espn.go.com/
andy_b
Footballguy
flop, you aren't really going to watch the World Cup in SD are you? Oi that hurts
Native
Footballguy
Just read that. Cover story no less. Good for ESPN! Its about time...
El Floppo
Footballguy
If I knew what SD was, I might get offended.andy_b said:flop, you aren't really going to watch the World Cup in SD are you? Oi that hurts
Nice Bradley article- thanks for that.I've said it before, but the article reminded me- I played against Bradley-coached Princeton in college. Not the best players, but they played the best of any Ivy as a team- and even then I thought about what a good coach their coach was. Interesting but not suprised to see him rise so high. And fwiw- I've never been on the "can Bradley" band-wagon.
El Floppo
Footballguy
From the NYT:
Never heard of Rodgers- but I'm hoping there's more/better to come. The comment on the Kandji/Angel pairing at the bottom is dead on. Kandji actually paired really well with Salou Ibrahim against Santos, and they've apparently just signed Salou to a deal. But no way Angel gets passed over for either of these guys.
Never heard of Rodgers- but I'm hoping there's more/better to come. The comment on the Kandji/Angel pairing at the bottom is dead on. Kandji actually paired really well with Salou Ibrahim against Santos, and they've apparently just signed Salou to a deal. But no way Angel gets passed over for either of these guys.
Sebowski
Footballguy
If they bring this to my local IMAX I am so in.
andy_b
Footballguy
dudeIf I knew what SD was, I might get offended.andy_b said:flop, you aren't really going to watch the World Cup in SD are you? Oi that hurts
SD = Standard Definition (ie not high def)
andy_b
Footballguy
this will be happening all over MLS in the coming years. MLS just put out a new rule which states the following"As part of Major League Soccer’s ongoing efforts to improve the quality of play, the League has added two additional roster slots per club for Home Grown Players identified and developed by the local club. This creates additional opportunities for top young players in the United States and Canada to gain MLS experience.In conjunction with the League’s partnership with adidas and its commitment to player development, MLS clubs may also sign Home Grown Players from their youth development programs to Generation adidas contracts without those players having to go through the SuperDraft. "
Sand
Footballguy
I need some help from the soccer folks here. I want to buy a decent soccer ball. In other words, not any of the complete crap you find at Sports Authority. A real ball. I can't afford (or really want) a $150 match ball - I don't need that level of ball. For those folks who have been playing recently and know what balls are like these days, where now is the break point between crap and good? I can remember 15 years ago $50-60 bought a pretty good ball. Most below that were junk. I have no idea what is out there these days.
As a striker I typically prefer a ball that isn't too glossy/slippery and one that tends to jump off the feet rather than be a softer/finesse type ball. Looking for good bang/buck. Any suggestions?
As a striker I typically prefer a ball that isn't too glossy/slippery and one that tends to jump off the feet rather than be a softer/finesse type ball. Looking for good bang/buck. Any suggestions?
Last edited by a moderator:
El Floppo
Footballguy
you can't kick a ball while swimming or biking. hth.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
You can get a high-quality Nike ball for like $30 bucks
I have one that I've been using for a few years now that hasn't worn out one bit. I'll probably get a Nike ball for my next one as well.
Sand
Footballguy
I'm multitalented.After looking for a bit the higher end Puma Concacaf ball looks pretty good - good construction and more than a few comments that it is a bullet. That's what I'm looking for.
Moe.
Footballguy
still there. yanks-abroad.
thanks. thought i might be missing something.
andy_b
Footballguy
Interesting announcing note from ESPN.
When the US plays England, the normal lead announcer JP Dellacamera will be relegated to radio. ESPN is using the legendary Martin Tyler to call the US game. There is a possibility that Harkes will call the game with him but that has not yet been decided.
When the US plays England, the normal lead announcer JP Dellacamera will be relegated to radio. ESPN is using the legendary Martin Tyler to call the US game. There is a possibility that Harkes will call the game with him but that has not yet been decided.
andy_b
Footballguy
The yanks abroad forum on Big Soccer is a fantastic place for news on players abroad if you are looking for facts and opinions.bweiser said:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=41
andy_b
Footballguy
Interesting comments from Landon about the empty striker spot. BuddleMania!! Its running wild!
NEW YORK—Landon Donovan thinks Edson Buddle deserves a look for the U.S. training camp ahead of the World Cup, and Herculez Gomez, too.
Charlie Davies still is recovering from an October car crash and Brian Ching is out until next month with an injured hamstring, so it's unclear who will start at forward alongside Jozy Altidore when the United States plays England in its World Cup opener on June 12.
Buddle, a forward who turns 29 on May 21, has scored all five goals in helping Donovan's Galaxy to a 3-0 start in Major League Soccer. Buddle hasn't played for the national team since his debut in an exhibition against Venezuela in March 2003.
"I see it a little different probably than most people," Donovan said Wednesday. "Most people see the goal-scoring, which obviously as a forward is important. But for me, equally if not more importantly are the little things he's doing to help our team win. And those types of things are important when you're not scoring goals, especially. And a lot of players when they score a lot of goals think they don't have to do those things, and he's doing all those little things that are helping a lot."
Gomez, another 28-year-old, has eight goals in 13 games this season for Puebla in Mexico, an unexpected turnaround for a former Galaxy, Colorado and Kansas City player whose only two international appearances were in the 2007 Copa America.
Donovan doesn't want to speak for U.S. coach Bob Bradley but says those players should be given a chance to show whether they ought to be on the 23-man roster.
"Taking a look at, absolutely. Why wouldn't you? At this point, you would have to think everything is an option," Donovan said. "Clearly I'm not the coach and I don't make these decisions, but I always err on the side of caution. And what I mean by that is you take the players that are one, playing, and who are playing the best at the time. And I always think that's the best formula. Now, not everyone sees it that way, but that's my personal opinion."
NEW YORK—Landon Donovan thinks Edson Buddle deserves a look for the U.S. training camp ahead of the World Cup, and Herculez Gomez, too.
Charlie Davies still is recovering from an October car crash and Brian Ching is out until next month with an injured hamstring, so it's unclear who will start at forward alongside Jozy Altidore when the United States plays England in its World Cup opener on June 12.
Buddle, a forward who turns 29 on May 21, has scored all five goals in helping Donovan's Galaxy to a 3-0 start in Major League Soccer. Buddle hasn't played for the national team since his debut in an exhibition against Venezuela in March 2003.
"I see it a little different probably than most people," Donovan said Wednesday. "Most people see the goal-scoring, which obviously as a forward is important. But for me, equally if not more importantly are the little things he's doing to help our team win. And those types of things are important when you're not scoring goals, especially. And a lot of players when they score a lot of goals think they don't have to do those things, and he's doing all those little things that are helping a lot."
Gomez, another 28-year-old, has eight goals in 13 games this season for Puebla in Mexico, an unexpected turnaround for a former Galaxy, Colorado and Kansas City player whose only two international appearances were in the 2007 Copa America.
Donovan doesn't want to speak for U.S. coach Bob Bradley but says those players should be given a chance to show whether they ought to be on the 23-man roster.
"Taking a look at, absolutely. Why wouldn't you? At this point, you would have to think everything is an option," Donovan said. "Clearly I'm not the coach and I don't make these decisions, but I always err on the side of caution. And what I mean by that is you take the players that are one, playing, and who are playing the best at the time. And I always think that's the best formula. Now, not everyone sees it that way, but that's my personal opinion."
Moe.
Footballguy
So they won't use Tyler for the other us games? He'll still be calling one game a day, right? I think he could go a long way in influencing the non fans who tune in for the wc. I know when I started watching in 06 I fell in love with the announcing.
andy_b
Footballguy
This is the only item they have released for the games. Eventually they will release the entire announcing schedule probably in May some time.In terms of whether he or anyone else will call more than one game a day, I think that depends on if there is more than one game on a specific day at the same site. If that happens then most certainly announcers will call more than one game in one day. I don't think ESPN is going to have more than one TV announcing team at a site, but I could be wrong.
andy_b
Footballguy
I don't usually bag on players too much but I don't care how many players are hurt, I am going to be really bummed if Casey finds his way on to the squad.
El Floppo
Footballguy
AND... Arsenal got dumped by Spurs, essentially putting them out of the running at 6 points back of Chelsea.That Bolton game- 2 cut and dry PK calls against Chelsea that didn't get called. Drogba with an over-the-shoulder catch, and Terry with his arm out too. Horrible misses.
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