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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

I imagine Swansea will be fined for sitting every single one of their starters sans Vorm. It makes a game unwatchable.
Fined by whom? Are you thinking match mixing?
The FA. I believe they fined Blackpool for the same thing last year. You are supposed to field your best eleven. They allow for resting players, but when a club pulls a "B" club rest day they generally get fined.
I had a vague memory of this so I looked it up. It was Blackpool for a game back in November 2010 for resting 10 players. Holloway threatened to quit after the fine and then went on to appeal but I could not find the result of the appeal. I personally don't think the FA has any right to tell a team who to start unless they believe match fixing is going on. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/mobile/football/teams/b/blackpool/9382766.stm
They paid the fine. I don't care much for FAs policies generally, but this rule makes sense. Playing reserve teams in EPL games isn't acceptable. Benching your entire team is a lot different than rotating players.I imagine the managers know they are going to get fined going into the game.
The FA rules state you have to name a 25 man roster for a season. A manager should be allowed to choose how he manages his players so that he ends up with the best results for his team at the end of the year.In Swansea's case, the following priorities are likely in place for yearly goals1) Avoid relegation2) Challenge for a Europa League spot3) Perform well in Cup competitionsWith Swansea in no real danger of relegation, the League Cup final becomes their biggest game of the year since they can get into the Europa League via a win.I think it would be absolutely outrageous, (unless match fixing was suspected) for the FA to have any say in how Swansea tries to meet its yearly goals.Knowing that the League Cup final is one week away and that they were in no danger of relegation, on the road, I have no problems with the decision of the manager to rest his best players in prep for the final next week.
I think the FA gives quite a bit of leeway in meeting the obligation of fielding your best available 11. Benching 9-10 starters is just asking to get fined.Given the point system the EPL utilizes you can't have teams choosing which games they are going to throw and which they are going to field a competitive team
He started 4 players who started the week before against QPR. Swansea has started different lineups almost every game this season. Trying to figure out who their manager thinks their best 11 is not something any outsider should have any say in.It would be one thing if he started a team with close to zero EPL appearances this year, but he didn't. Vorm, Tiendelli, Davies, DeGuzman, and Hernandez are all regular members of the squad and all started today. The subs of Rangel, Routledge and Dyer are all regular squad members.
With the exception of Davies and Vorm even those you picked out are sporadic starters at best. It seems pretty clear they intentionally put out an uncompetitive team. It's still possible the FA won't fine them though.The FA has the power and the obligation to ensure that teams aren't picking and choosing which games they want to throw. It devalues the end product.I don't often agree with how the FA enforces their rules, but I think the league value in punishing teams that field reserve squads one week to compete better the next is a pretty easy case to make.
 
With the exception of Davies and Vorm even those you picked out are sporadic starters at best.
DeGuzman has started the last 5 games in a row for Swansea and 21 starts on the season. When healthy, Hernandez has started 16 out of the 19 games he was healthy for. These two are most certainly first choice players along with Vorm and Davies.Since Chico got hurt, Tiendelli has started 7 games games as the Swansea back line continues to rotate almost every game.They are not sporadic starters IMO, especially considering how many times the Swansea starting lineup changes.I am not arguing whether they put out their top side, they obviously did not. I am arguing against that they put out a reserve team, which IMO, just as obviously they did not.
 
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The Pelosi bad news just reminded me that the US U20 qualifying starts tomorrow. FSC will show the first game vs Haiti at 6:30 eastern. Remember that this is a tournament format to qualifying. Top two from each group advance to quarter finals, the 4 quarter final winners qualify for the WC. US is grouped with Haiti and Costa Rica. US plays Costa Rica on Friday.

 
Donovan has set a return date. Is going to miss a few league and CCL games and likely the two march qualifiers.

Galaxy announce that Donovan will rejoin club in late March

FEBRUARY 17, 2013

Simon Borg

MLSsoccer.com

The mystery is over.

The LA Galaxy on Sunday announced that team captain Landon Donovan will rejoin the club in training during the final week of March after an extended leave of absence following MLS Cup 2012.

“After a series of collaborative discussions between Landon, his representative and our key club leaders, we have agreed to allow Landon to remain on an extended leave of absence and return to training with the team during the final week of March,” Galaxy GM and manager Bruce Arena said in a club statement.

“We understand this arrangement is not ideal," Arena's statement continues, "but we are confident it will allow Landon the time he needs to be both mentally and physically prepared for the upcoming season. We remain focused on our preparation for the start of the 2013 season and look forward to Landon rejoining us next month.”

Donovan asked for time to contemplate his playing future after MLS Cup 2012 and never attached a specific return date. He told media at the conclusion of last year's victorious title match that: "I have to listen to my heart and my gut, and right now my gut says to get away for awhile.”

The timing of Donovan's return will mean he will miss out on the club's first three regular season home matches, which will all be played at home: March 3 vs. Chicago, March 17 vs. Chivas USA and March 23 vs. Colorado.

The Galaxy will also have to do without Donovan for a CONCACAF Champions League quarterfinal knockout series against Costa Rican side Herediano to be played on March 7 and March 13. Should the Galaxy advance in the aggregate-goal series, the semifinal home-and-home series would take place by April 11.

As far as the US national team is concerned, the USMNT's all-time leading scorer would not be expected to be available for the March qualifiers against Costa Rica (March 22) and the daunting trip to face Mexico (March 26).

Donovan was not selected for the USA's CONCACAF Hexagonal opener at Honduras, a 2-1 loss for the Americans.
 
That 'every touch' video featuring Jermaine Jones @ Mainz is presumably not his finest hour? Two thirds of his passes went to someone wearing red -- several of them paying customers.

 
That 'every touch' video featuring Jermaine Jones @ Mainz is presumably not his finest hour? Two thirds of his passes went to someone wearing red -- several of them paying customers.
I noticed that as well. But to be fair I am also biased in that I have never really liked his game too much so sometimes I only see the weak points.
 
That 'every touch' video featuring Jermaine Jones @ Mainz is presumably not his finest hour? Two thirds of his passes went to someone wearing red -- several of them paying customers.
I noticed that as well. But to be fair I am also biased in that I have never really liked his game too much so sometimes I only see the weak points.
I'm still muddled on some of the US mids and outside backs, so I can't say I have much of an impression of Jones yet. Except that he got a lot of PT at Schalke.But while getting in the way a lot is a pretty useful skill, I don't see how someone that has no idea where the ball is going when it leaves his foot can help a team. He had at least 8-10 true turnovers in those highlights and a few other clearances that good players still seem to find teammates with.
 
How is what Swansea did any different than resting Peyton Manning + the skill position starters in Week 17?
The total points system with everyone having the same schedule changes the dynamics of it. 3 free Liverpool pts today might come back and hurt someone else. There are times in the NFL when resting players in week 17 gives their opponent a playoff chance and when it does this always comes up as an issue. When it doesn't effect the playoffs, no one cares.
 
Orlando City continues to get all its ducks in line to make the jump into MLS. The league really needs a souther foothold so I hope this works out.

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74463639/

New investor could bring soccer franchise, stadium to Orlando

Businessman Flávio Augusto da Silva is now part of the Orlando City Lions ownership group and will eventually be its primary owner.

By Mark Schlueb and David Damron, Orlando Sentinel

6:32 pm, February 17, 2013

A wealthy Brazilian entrepreneur became a major investor in the Orlando City Soccer Club on Friday, bringing an influx of cash that makes it much more likely that Orlando will land a Major League Soccer franchise — and that taxpayers will help foot the bill for a new soccer stadium.

In an exclusive interview with the Orlando Sentinel on Sunday, Orlando City Lions president Phil Rawlins and businessman Flávio Augusto da Silva confirmed that he is now part of the team's ownership group and will eventually be its primary owner. The investment is a major step in the minor league USL Pro team's effort to gain entry into Major League Soccer.

"Orlando is a very special city, because it is very close to the South American market and close to the European market, two regions that really love soccer," Augusto da Silva said. "We were researching a franchise in another place, but we believe Orlando is a really good city to invest."

At the same time, negotiations are under way between team executives and officials from Orlando and Orange County over building a new $105 million stadium for the team. Taxpayers would pay most of the tab for the 18,000-seat facility.

"A soccer-specific stadium is a must for the award of an MLS franchise," said Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer.

MLS plans to expand in the next few years and is eyeing the Southeast, where it has no teams. League Commissioner Don Garber has all but promised Orlando City Soccer Club a franchise, but a smaller stadium designed specifically for soccer is a prerequisite for admission.

Using a mix of hotel taxes and other public and private funding, the city finished the new Amway Center NBA arena in 2010, is in the middle of building a new downtown performing arts center and this year will begin major renovations of the Citrus Bowl — where the Lions now play. All together, that construction boom will cost more than $1.1 billion.

The soccer stadium would be a new addition to that list. So far, all discussions about whether to build it and how to pay for it have taken place behind closed doors.

There's been no agreement on a financing plan between Dyer's administration and Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs' administration. But here is what's being discussed:

•$30 million from the team.

•$30 million in state sales taxes.

•$25 million in hotel taxes from the county.

•$20 million from the city, mostly in land costs.

"This is moving far quicker than I ever anticipated," Dyer said. "There is a lot going on right now, and there are a lot of moving pieces."

Rawlins defended the use of public dollars for the facility, pointing to a study commissioned by the team that found an MLS team playing in a downtown stadium would produce a $1.3 billion economic impact over 30 years. Under the proposal being discussed, there would be no increase in hotel taxes, he said, and the sales taxes represent money generated by the stadium.

"This is a net positive for the community," Rawlins said.

Even so, it's not a sure thing.

The state funding depends on the fate of bills filed by State Sen. David Simmons, R-Altamonte Springs, and state Rep. Bryan Nelson, R-Apopka. The bills would add up to two new MLS franchises to the list of professional sports teams already eligible to receive $2 million a year in sales tax subsidies, money that could go to the stadium's construction.

"It's pretty important that we get it done," Nelson said. "MLS could go to Atlanta or another city in the South."

Gov. Rick Scott has expressed support for the legislation, but that's no guarantee it will pass.

And Jacobs is taking a cautious approach. She said she wants to be sure the venues already being supported by the county's hotel tax are fully funded before committing to a new stadium, at least in the short term. Jacobs also worries that a new stadium could cannibalize ticket sales at other public venues, including the Citrus Bowl, where Orlando City now plays.

"I would love to see it. I happen to be a big soccer fan. It's the number one international sport. I get all of that," Jacobs said. "But we've had two soccer teams in the state of Florida, MLS teams, that didn't make it in the past. I think we just have to be cautious when we're talking about major public investments."

At $30 million, the team's portion of the stadium bill would be substantial, as well. On top of the construction cost, the Lions also would be expected to pay a franchise fee to join MLS. The amount is negotiated, but a source familiar with the talks estimated it at $50 million — putting the Lions' admission costs at around $80 million.

That's why, from the perspective of the team's ownership, it was critical to bring Augusto da Silva into the mix.

With a small loan, Augusto da Silva started a company to teach English to adult professionals in Rio De Janeiro. That was in 1995, and the company — Wise Up — now has more than 400 schools in five countries. On Feb. 7, his birthday, Augusto da Silva sold Wise Up's parent company to Abril Educação, a major communications group. The deal gave him capital and a stake in Abril Educação.

As Augusto da Silva's investment in the Orlando City increases with the presumed transition to MLS, his shares in the team will increase, eventually making him the principal owner.
 
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FA Cup draw:Oldham Athletic or Everton v Wigan AthleticMillwall v Blackburn RoversManchester City v BarnsleyManchester United or Reading v Middlesbrough or ChelseaCity's had a pretty easy time of it so far.

 
FA Cup draw:Oldham Athletic or Everton v Wigan AthleticMillwall v Blackburn RoversManchester City v BarnsleyManchester United or Reading v Middlesbrough or ChelseaCity's had a pretty easy time of it so far.
Go Middlesbrough! The Mrs. surprised me with tickets to the Fulham / Chelsea game in March (we'll be in London that weekend for a wedding), but it's likely to be rescheduled if Chelsea is still in the FA cup...
 
Here is the Champions League TV info for the coming week. All times EasternTuesday, February 19, 2013:2:45pm Arsenal v Bayern Munich …..LIVE: FoxSoccer + Fox Deportes…..DELAYED: FoxSoccer-Plus/5pm 2:45pm FC Porto v Malaga …..LIVE: Fox Sports Regional Networks + FoxSoccer-Plus…..DELAYED: FoxSoccer + Fox Deportes / 5pmWednesday, February 20, 20132:45pm AC Milan v Barcelona …..LIVE: FoxSoccer + Fox Deportes …..DELAYED: FoxSoccer-Plus/5pm 2:45pm Galatasaray v Schalke 04 …..LIVE: Fox Sports Regional Networks + FoxSoccer-Plus…..DELAYED: FoxSoccer/5pm + Fox Deportes/8pm

 
Pelosi getting love from Lucas Leiva on tweeter. :thumbup: Really, really bummed for the kid. First reports are it was a clean break and an easy reset. Should help speed up the recovery.

 
I don't really get this article:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323495104578310053053688348.html?google_editors_picks=trueThe headline states one question, and then the article goes into whether there's an advantage in a home-and-home to play at home first or last?

 
'NewlyRetired said:
The Pelosi bad news just reminded me that the US U20 qualifying starts tomorrow. FSC will show the first game vs Haiti at 6:30 eastern. Remember that this is a tournament format to qualifying. Top two from each group advance to quarter finals, the 4 quarter final winners qualify for the WC. US is grouped with Haiti and Costa Rica. US plays Costa Rica on Friday.
reminder for those that want to see the next group of US players. I don't see any of these maturing in time for the current WC cycle but some of these players will be important to the 2018 cycle.
 
Here is the Fox Soccer TV schedule for the U20 WC Qualifying tournament starting todayNote: All times ET.Feb. 18 Haiti vs. USA, 6:30 p.m.Feb. 19 Mexico vs. Curaçao 9 p.m.Feb. 22 USA vs. Costa Rica 6:30 p.m.Feb. 23 Mexico vs. El Salvador 7 p.m.Feb. 26 Quarterfinals: Group A Winner vs. Group B Runner-up, 6 p.m.Feb. 26 Quarterfinals: Group B Winner vs. Group A Runner-up, 9 p.m.Feb. 27 Quarterfinals: Group C Winner vs. Group D Runner-up, 6 p.m.Feb. 28 Quarterfinals: Group D Winner vs. Group C Runner-up, 9 p.m.March 1 Semifinals: QF 1 Winner vs. QF 2 Winner, 6 p.m.March 1 Semifinals: QF 3 Winner vs. QF 4 Winner, 9 p.m.March 3 Third-Place Game SF 1 Loser vs. SF 2 Loser, 4 p.m.March 3 Final: SF 1 Winner vs. SF 2 Winner, 7 p.m.

 
Orlando City continues to get all its ducks in line to make the jump into MLS. The league really needs a souther foothold so I hope this works out.

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74463639/

New investor could bring soccer franchise, stadium to Orlando

Businessman Flávio Augusto da Silva is now part of the Orlando City Lions ownership group and will eventually be its primary owner.

By Mark Schlueb and David Damron, Orlando Sentinel

6:32 pm, February 17, 2013

A wealthy Brazilian entrepreneur became a major investor in the Orlando City Soccer Club on Friday, bringing an influx of cash that makes it much more likely that Orlando will land a Major League Soccer franchise — and that taxpayers will help foot the bill for a new soccer stadium.

In an exclusive interview with the Orlando Sentinel on Sunday, Orlando City Lions president Phil Rawlins and businessman Flávio Augusto da Silva confirmed that he is now part of the team's ownership group and will eventually be its primary owner. The investment is a major step in the minor league USL Pro team's effort to gain entry into Major League Soccer.

"Orlando is a very special city, because it is very close to the South American market and close to the European market, two regions that really love soccer," Augusto da Silva said. "We were researching a franchise in another place, but we believe Orlando is a really good city to invest."

At the same time, negotiations are under way between team executives and officials from Orlando and Orange County over building a new $105 million stadium for the team. Taxpayers would pay most of the tab for the 18,000-seat facility.

"A soccer-specific stadium is a must for the award of an MLS franchise," said Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer.

MLS plans to expand in the next few years and is eyeing the Southeast, where it has no teams. League Commissioner Don Garber has all but promised Orlando City Soccer Club a franchise, but a smaller stadium designed specifically for soccer is a prerequisite for admission.

Using a mix of hotel taxes and other public and private funding, the city finished the new Amway Center NBA arena in 2010, is in the middle of building a new downtown performing arts center and this year will begin major renovations of the Citrus Bowl — where the Lions now play. All together, that construction boom will cost more than $1.1 billion.
Press conference today where the new investor will announce his intentions to fund $80M into the club ($50 towards an MLS expansion fee, and $30 towards the stadium).
 
Looks like the U20 back line is where the problems may come from in qualifying.Missing are Packwood and Pelosi (both have broken legs) and John Anthony Brooks, who has not yet fully committed to US as he can also represent Germany (he has played for both the German and US U20 sides in friendlies). Brooks is a physical specimen who is already bigger than Gooch at 6'6". I have not seen him play though to comment on his foot skills.Also missing on the back line is Walker Zimmerman, who was the #7 pick in the recent MLS Super Draft. He is also out injured.Offensively Luis Gil and Jose Villarreal have both shown flashes in MLS that they can be very good but neither have stood out for extended periods (Gil has more received more playing time than Villareal).

 
Just dumb. Has Florida supported any sports team well outside of college football? Not that there's great areas in the southeast, but Atlanta or RTP seem like much better choices than Orlando.

 
Just dumb. Has Florida supported any sports team well outside of college football? Not that there's great areas in the southeast, but Atlanta or RTP seem like much better choices than Orlando.
One thing in Orlando's favor (apart from willing investment in a SSS) is that Orlando City already gets impressive support for a third tier club. I think they average close to 8k a game which is fantastic for that level. How much of that translates to an 18k capacity remains to be seen, but that club hasn't taken very many bad steps since moving from Austin. I'm rooting for them hard to get into the league.
 
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Just dumb. Has Florida supported any sports team well outside of college football? Not that there's great areas in the southeast, but Atlanta or RTP seem like much better choices than Orlando.
One thing in Orlando's favor (apart from willing investment in a SSS) is that Orlando City already gets impressive support for a third tier club. I think they average close to 8k a game which is fantastic for that level. How much of that translates to an 18k capacity remains to be seen, but that club hasn't taken very many bad steps since moving from Austin. I'm rooting for them hard to get into the league.
Me too. As a follower of the league I really want a southern team to take hold and the league has had some very very good luck with expanding with clubs that already were in existence in lower leagues, like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver and Montreal, so I love the idea that they can build on what Orlando City has already done.

To put into perspective what averaging 8k at that level means: Before they entered MLS, Portland averaged 6800, Seattle averaged 3300, Vancouver averaged 5100 and Montreal averaged 11k, so there is some solid precedent that the numbers can and will grow dramatically if the team can make a successful leap into MLS.

 
In the "weird rumors I see when work slows down and I'm left to troll Big Soccer" file, apparently Nigel Reo Coker (who is married to an American) wants to move to MLS (Red Bulls or possibly Timbers) with an eye toward trying to get quick US citizenship a la David Regis and play for the Nats.Not my favorite guy in the world (I found him getting Bradley's playing time at Villa inexplicable), but he'd seem to be a step up from Beckerman or Edu in the "last DM on the team category." Klinsmann is supposed to be an admirer, maybe because he could achieve his fantasy of playing an entire midfield of functional box-to-box runners.
Looks like he might be headed to Vancouver.
 
So, now that I've been following soccer a lot more closely, watching tons of games on Fox Soccer, EPL games every week, and in general reading about news and such, I'm curious what you guys think of Donovan. I've never really watched or followed him outside of watching World Cup a couple years ago and other international games the US played and just knew his name as one of our top guys. Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world? Does the US team really miss him that much? Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?

 
Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world?
No. I don't think he's ever been at the level where he could be a first-teamer for one of the 15-20 biggest clubs in the world. He's had some nice run with Everton in some limited stints, but he's played most of his club soccer with the MLS.
Does the US team really miss him that much?
I think so. You can't guarantee that the US would've beaten Honduras with him, but their chances certainly would've been increased.
Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?
Page upon page of pixels have been devoted to this subject on this message board, as well as many others. IMO, the primary reason is that most soccer-intensive countries start acquiring (literal) kids at a young age, and have them play soccer intensively, without the distractions of college, etc. Soccer also gets Germany, Spain, etc.'s best athletes most of the time, whereas here they're competing with baseball, football, etc. My $.02.Dempsey and Bradley are both very good attacking players who have established themselves in the best European leagues, but America has nowhere near the type of "bench" that Brazil or Argentina or Germany does.
 
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So, now that I've been following soccer a lot more closely, watching tons of games on Fox Soccer, EPL games every week, and in general reading about news and such, I'm curious what you guys think of Donovan. I've never really watched or followed him outside of watching World Cup a couple years ago and other international games the US played and just knew his name as one of our top guys. Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world? Does the US team really miss him that much? Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?
People can and likely will write a book on this topic some day so I will just give high level impressions of him from watching him since he was with the U17's.* I rate him as the best US player ever, at least from what I have seen following the team in depth since the late 80's. Even if you don't rate him as the top US player ever, no matter how much you hate him, he has to be in everyone's top 5 US players all time* In terms of the entire world, I would say at his absolute peak, when he was 27 or so, he might have broken into the top 100 players in the world, but anyone who wants to argue that he was more of a top 200 player I would not have a problem with since there is a lot of talent in the world bunched up in that range.* Landon separated himself from his American peers because he possessed decent footskills, decent soccer IQ, and added to those traits absolute world class speed with the ball. I think many could argue that the US has and will continue to produce players of similar quality to Landon(Bradley and Dempsey obviously are the two most obvious) but we have not produced someone with the superior athletic speed and quickness to go along with the other skills to get them to the next level.* The US team misses him because even at 30, when he does not have the wheels he did years ago, he still provides a wide player to a team greatly lacking in players who can play out wide. If you look at the roster for the Honduras game it was chock full of central favoring players. Also, they miss him as he has been through the Central American wars, which regardless of the quality of the players, is amongst the toughest region in the world to play away to.
 
So, now that I've been following soccer a lot more closely, watching tons of games on Fox Soccer, EPL games every week, and in general reading about news and such, I'm curious what you guys think of Donovan. I've never really watched or followed him outside of watching World Cup a couple years ago and other international games the US played and just knew his name as one of our top guys. Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world? Does the US team really miss him that much? Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?
He is a "quality" player. He proved that in his stints with Everton. I think he'd make most national squads. But he wouldn't be a star on quite a few. The US misses him a lot. He's one of our 4 best players along with Howard, Bradley and Dempsey.
 
Andy mentioned starting a new thread for general discussion, so here it is. And here's a juicy bit of news to get it started.Steven Goff is reporting on his blog that the Zidane to Chicago talks are heating back up. He's saying a decision could come down on Monday. This would INSTANTLY make the Fire a cup contender, as much as I hate to admit that. Link
Looks like our 6 year anniversary passed over the weekend. Still no sign of Zizou.Here's your top 25:
Code:
Who posted in: ***Official Soccer Discussion Thread***Member name 	PostsNewlyRetired  	6900El Floppo  	4172Steve Tasker  	4039The Z Machine  	3367Christo  	2031andy_b  	1792Good Posting Judge  	1435Eephus  	1128Sebowski  	1108The Gator  	1105Mjolnirs  	1047LHUCKS  	1033jonessed  	994CletiusMaximus  	988Native  	920guru_007  	915prefontaine  	815Moe.  	787scoobygang  	729B Maverick  	721Desert_Power  	633Ted Lange as your Bartender  	631TLEF316  	627Slapdash  	539GoFishTN  	526
 
Andy mentioned starting a new thread for general discussion, so here it is. And here's a juicy bit of news to get it started.Steven Goff is reporting on his blog that the Zidane to Chicago talks are heating back up. He's saying a decision could come down on Monday. This would INSTANTLY make the Fire a cup contender, as much as I hate to admit that. Link
Looks like our 6 year anniversary passed over the weekend. Still no sign of Zizou.Here's your top 25:
Code:
Who posted in: ***Official Soccer Discussion Thread***Member name 	PostsNewlyRetired  	6900El Floppo  	4172Steve Tasker  	4039The Z Machine  	3367Christo  	2031andy_b  	1792Good Posting Judge  	1435Eephus  	1128Sebowski  	1108The Gator  	1105Mjolnirs  	1047LHUCKS  	1033jonessed  	994CletiusMaximus  	988Native  	920guru_007  	915prefontaine  	815Moe.  	787scoobygang  	729B Maverick  	721Desert_Power  	633Ted Lange as your Bartender  	631TLEF316  	627Slapdash  	539GoFishTN  	526
:towelwave: This is almost the only thread I post in anymore. :lol:
 
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So, now that I've been following soccer a lot more closely, watching tons of games on Fox Soccer, EPL games every week, and in general reading about news and such, I'm curious what you guys think of Donovan. I've never really watched or followed him outside of watching World Cup a couple years ago and other international games the US played and just knew his name as one of our top guys. Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world? Does the US team really miss him that much? Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?
People can and likely will write a book on this topic some day so I will just give high level impressions of him from watching him since he was with the U17's.* I rate him as the best US player ever, at least from what I have seen following the team in depth since the late 80's. Even if you don't rate him as the top US player ever, no matter how much you hate him, he has to be in everyone's top 5 US players all time

* In terms of the entire world, I would say at his absolute peak, when he was 27 or so, he might have broken into the top 100 players in the world, but anyone who wants to argue that he was more of a top 200 player I would not have a problem with since there is a lot of talent in the world bunched up in that range.

* Landon separated himself from his American peers because he possessed decent footskills, decent soccer IQ, and added to those traits absolute world class speed with the ball. I think many could argue that the US has and will continue to produce players of similar quality to Landon(Bradley and Dempsey obviously are the two most obvious) but we have not produced someone with the superior athletic speed and quickness to go along with the other skills to get them to the next level.

* The US team misses him because even at 30, when he does not have the wheels he did years ago, he still provides a wide player to a team greatly lacking in players who can play out wide. If you look at the roster for the Honduras game it was chock full of central favoring players. Also, they miss him as he has been through the Central American wars, which regardless of the quality of the players, is amongst the toughest region in the world to play away to.
Is Tim Howard out because he doesn't score goals? He's a world class keeper on a team competing for a Champions League slot. Are keepers just that undervalued when compared to position players?
 
'Txns8 said:
'NewlyRetired said:
So, now that I've been following soccer a lot more closely, watching tons of games on Fox Soccer, EPL games every week, and in general reading about news and such, I'm curious what you guys think of Donovan. I've never really watched or followed him outside of watching World Cup a couple years ago and other international games the US played and just knew his name as one of our top guys. Is he really a quality player compared to other stars around the world? Does the US team really miss him that much? Why don't we have any other players of similar caliber and haven't for a while?
People can and likely will write a book on this topic some day so I will just give high level impressions of him from watching him since he was with the U17's.* I rate him as the best US player ever, at least from what I have seen following the team in depth since the late 80's. Even if you don't rate him as the top US player ever, no matter how much you hate him, he has to be in everyone's top 5 US players all time

* In terms of the entire world, I would say at his absolute peak, when he was 27 or so, he might have broken into the top 100 players in the world, but anyone who wants to argue that he was more of a top 200 player I would not have a problem with since there is a lot of talent in the world bunched up in that range.

* Landon separated himself from his American peers because he possessed decent footskills, decent soccer IQ, and added to those traits absolute world class speed with the ball. I think many could argue that the US has and will continue to produce players of similar quality to Landon(Bradley and Dempsey obviously are the two most obvious) but we have not produced someone with the superior athletic speed and quickness to go along with the other skills to get them to the next level.

* The US team misses him because even at 30, when he does not have the wheels he did years ago, he still provides a wide player to a team greatly lacking in players who can play out wide. If you look at the roster for the Honduras game it was chock full of central favoring players. Also, they miss him as he has been through the Central American wars, which regardless of the quality of the players, is amongst the toughest region in the world to play away to.
Is Tim Howard out because he doesn't score goals? He's a world class keeper on a team competing for a Champions League slot. Are keepers just that undervalued when compared to position players?
I should have said field player as I don't like comparing keepers and field players. As for Howard, I don't think he is the best US keeper ever, at least at this point. I think Friedel owns that.

 

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