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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)

NewlyRetired said:
Do you guys feel Pulisic would get as much playing time at Liverpool as he does at Dortmund?  I believe last year he was 4th in total minutes played across all competitions for Dortmund.  Dortmund did heavily rotate though so it was not like he was a 90 minute guy every game.
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I think with CL - there will be a lot of minutes available for all of Liverpool's attacking players.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Do you guys feel Pulisic would get as much playing time at Liverpool as he does at Dortmund?  I believe last year he was 4th in total minutes played across all competitions for Dortmund.  Dortmund did heavily rotate though so it was not like he was a 90 minute guy every game.
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And Reus was hurt for a huge period of the season. I think it's tough to know.  I think Pulisic is an excellent player, but is he better than Firmino, Mane, Salah, Lallana?  It's hard to know.  He'd be one in a big group of highly versatile attackers.  I think he'd get minutes just considering how many games there are to play.  But I don't know how many.

Long term, you have to think that Dembele's head is going to be turned at some point.  And Reus talent (top 10 in the world when healthy IMO) coupled with his durability issues may make him more valuable to move than to keep.  It's hard to not think of the upside with Reus, so I think he'd fetch a big fee.  So I suspect that Pulisic would be pretty much a 35 game starter for Dortmund by the time he was 20. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
And Reus was hurt for a huge period of the season. I think it's tough to know.  I think Pulisic is an excellent player, but is he better than Firmino, Mane, Salah, Lallana?  It's hard to know.  He'd be one in a big group of highly versatile attackers.  I think he'd get minutes just considering how many games there are to play.  But I don't know how many.

Long term, you have to think that Dembele's head is going to be turned at some point.  And Reus talent (top 10 in the world when healthy IMO) coupled with his durability issues may make him more valuable to move than to keep.  It's hard to not think of the upside with Reus, so I think he'd fetch a big fee.  So I suspect that Pulisic would be pretty much a 35 game starter for Dortmund by the time he was 20. 
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Dortmund...they really have a nice core.  Dembele/Pulisic/Aubameyang/Reus...wow they could be absolutely fantastic if they could all stay together and healthy. I'd rather see them stay together than see Dembele poached by one of the big boys.  And barring an extremely unlikely move to Liverpool, I'd love to see CP stay there.  Great place for him to grow.

 
Practically - there is no reason for Pulisic to move.  Maybe there is more money available from Liverpool, but I don't think Pulisic is at that stage where he is worried about maximizing current income.  He is settled in Dortmund.  They are a top club in the world - arguably ahead of Liverpool in the current world pecking order.  It seems to be an ideal learning ground for an attacking player - playing an attacking style with freedom to "express himself".  He seems to have the respect of the players and new coaching staff.  

Not sure there is an upside to moving anywhere right now.  Liverpool is a lateral move, and a move to a bigger club risks his continued development.  

But, I drafted him in the fantasy league on the outside chance he does move to Liverpool...

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yeah - ultimately I think la Liga loses here - but maybe shines a light on how Qatar is funding PSG in ways that circumvent FFP rules.

I still have this feeling that for all its money, Barça could be in a little bit of trouble here trying to replace Neymar.  Too many clubs already digging in heals - and not needing the money.  And, to the extent Barça does business - it will have a big impact moving forward in terms of setting market values, as I think they will have to pay inflated values.
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"Who's laughing now?!?!"

-Gerard Deulofeu

 
Look...I really, really like Sigurdsson.  He's going to be a very solid signing for Everton.  But 50M? That equates to what about 60M Euros? That's just absolute insanity.  

 
shader said:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20170803/43302485093/laliga-insiste-que-no-esta-bloqueando-el-traspaso-de-neymar.html

Apparently La Liga will only accept the money if it comes from Neymar's account...they won't accept a 3rd party payment.

Taxes.....
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There's a technical difference between what is referred to as a "release clause" and a "buy-out clause."  A release clause essentially requires the club to accept a qualifying offer from another club. As we learned in the Suarez saga a few years ago, its all in the details of the contract language when it comes to release clauses.  Buy out clauses are very common in Spain, some say they are mandatory but I'm not sure about that.  A buy out clause entitles the player to buy out his own contract for a set amount.  The transaction involves the player paying the club. The tax problems are triggered because of the multiple payments. Club pays player (taxed), player pays club (taxed again).  What often happens, as I believe was the case with Chelsea buying Diego Costa a few years ago, is the buying club makes clear that it will fund a buy-out, essentially forcing the selling club to negotiate a transfer. The selling club will typically come to an agreement at or near the buy-out amount, just to save on the tax hit so there's more money for everyone.  In this case, it appears Barca is not playing ball, which of course is their right. I've no idea what the Spanish League officials have to do with it.

Good twitter follows on this stuff:

https://twitter.com/EnricRG

https://twitter.com/PaoloTorchetti

Neymar's lawyers:

https://twitter.com/bicharaneto

https://twitter.com/mottamarcos

 
shader said:
Look...I really, really like Sigurdsson.  He's going to be a very solid signing for Everton.  But 50M? That equates to what about 60M Euros? That's just absolute insanity.  
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55M Euro's using today's exchange rate.  Yes, the summer of insanity continues.

 
gianmarco said:
Just found out which games we are likely going to get to see in November during the London trip with my son's soccer club:

Crystal Palace vs. Everton
West Brom vs. Chelsea
Leicester City vs. Man City
Southampton vs. Everton

Not bad at all.
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Selhurst Park will ruin those kids for life

 
CletiusMaximus said:
There's a technical difference between what is referred to as a "release clause" and a "buy-out clause."  A release clause essentially requires the club to accept a qualifying offer from another club. As we learned in the Suarez saga a few years ago, its all in the details of the contract language when it comes to release clauses.  Buy out clauses are very common in Spain, some say they are mandatory but I'm not sure about that.  A buy out clause entitles the player to buy out his own contract for a set amount.  The transaction involves the player paying the club. The tax problems are triggered because of the multiple payments. Club pays player (taxed), player pays club (taxed again).  What often happens, as I believe was the case with Chelsea buying Diego Costa a few years ago, is the buying club makes clear that it will fund a buy-out, essentially forcing the selling club to negotiate a transfer. The selling club will typically come to an agreement at or near the buy-out amount, just to save on the tax hit so there's more money for everyone.  In this case, it appears Barca is not playing ball, which of course is their right. I've no idea what the Spanish League officials have to do with it.

Good twitter follows on this stuff:

https://twitter.com/EnricRG

https://twitter.com/PaoloTorchetti

Neymar's lawyers:

https://twitter.com/bicharaneto

https://twitter.com/mottamarcos
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When Bayern "bought out" Thiago, they ended up negotiating a sale with Barcelona to avoid the taxes.

 
Slapdash said:
When Bayern "bought out" Thiago, they ended up negotiating a sale with Barcelona to avoid the taxes.
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Its a good example because Barca probably wasn't happy about Thiago leaving, but they negotiated the deal to save money knowing the player wanted to leave.  Bilbao played hardball with Javi Martinez and Ander Herrera, forcing the player to pay the buy-out in both deals and essentially making the deal price much higher than it needed to be due to taxes.  With Neymar's extraordinarily high buy-out number, the tax difference between doing a player buy-out and a negotiated sale between clubs is probably in the tens of millions of euros.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Its a good example because Barca probably wasn't happy about Thiago leaving, but they negotiated the deal to save money knowing the player wanted to leave.  Bilbao played hardball with Javi Martinez and Ander Herrera, forcing the player to pay the buy-out in both deals and essentially making the deal price much higher than it needed to be due to taxes.  With Neymar's extraordinarily high buy-out number, the tax difference between doing a player buy-out and a negotiated sale between clubs is probably in the tens of millions of euros.
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Yeah.  I would assume the hardball here is because PSG has refused to negotiate over Verratti.

 
Looks like it's done.  Neymar is no longer a Barca player.

Now for the ultimate trick:  Neymar is a free agent and signs for Liverpool to join his BFF Coutinho.

 
Barca has 220M Euros to spend now.  I think a lot of teams are going to be quite nervous now.  That money is going somewhere.  

 
It's bitterly funny that just as Arsene seems to have made his peace with paying modern market value for players, the market has been blown up again.  Here he is making these incrementally higher offers for Lemar and meanwhile that type of player's price has just gone up 15 million euros. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
It's bitterly funny that just as Arsene seems to have made his peace with paying modern market value for players, the market has been blown up again.  Here he is making these incrementally higher offers for Lemar and meanwhile that type of player's price has just gone up 15 million euros. 
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Like rain on his wedding day.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
It's bitterly funny that just as Arsene seems to have made his peace with paying modern market value for players, the market has been blown up again.  Here he is making these incrementally higher offers for Lemar and meanwhile that type of player's price has just gone up 15 million euros. 
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I remember the good ol days in May when Mbappe for 80M was the latest example of outrageous inflation gone bad.  Now just 2 months later, that price is 180 and climbing.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
It's bitterly funny that just as Arsene seems to have made his peace with paying modern market value for players, the market has been blown up again.  Here he is making these incrementally higher offers for Lemar and meanwhile that type of player's price has just gone up 15 million euros. 
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The other funny thing is that in a world where superstars are going up in value to an unfathomable degree, Arsenal are set to lose two of them next summer...for free.

 
shader said:
The other funny thing is that in a world where superstars are going up in value to an unfathomable degree, Arsenal are set to lose two of them next summer...for free.
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I pretty much agree with Arsene on this.  Maybe the calculus changes with the recent inflation, but I don't think Arsenal was even getting 50 million pound offers for Alexis.  Making the Champions League is probably worth that on it's own.  And if the team otherwise improves, maybe Alexis' head isn't turned.  Alexis has more than paid for the transfer fee it took to land him.  And Arsenal is in a good enough commercial position that it can afford to overpay for one more season.  They'd probably have to pay a bigger fee for a player who (right now) isn't as good. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
This is pretty cool.  They just opened a couple of these in Chicago I think as part of all star week.  The Foundation and Target together hope to open around a 100 across the country.  I would have loved this as a kid.

Target is kicking in $6 million to help the build.

https://twitter.com/ussoccerfndn/status/892757134324228096
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Target is not screwing around in this new commitment to soccer.

Today they announced an $8m program focused on providing access to soccer via on field equipment, to player registration fees etc focusing on in need communities.

This program will act in the form of a grant that you apply to and can get funding.  Should go right in line with mini fields they are hoping to build in cities around the country.

 
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