What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***Official Tax Reform Thread*** If it is good for Trump, it is good for America! (1 Viewer)

jonessed said:
That's really been more in the last 20 years.

Given globalization I don't think the link between corporate tax cuts and domestic job/wage growth is anything like it used to be.  The goal may be to get companies to repatriate money sitting overseas and expand more domestically, but I'm not convinced it will happen.

I would like to see reform though.  The corporate tax code needs to be much more equitable.  A lower rate and fewer giveaways/loopholes would be good.
Click to expand...
Curious what the "giveaways" and "loopholes" are in corporate tax.   In personal income tax, there are no real loopholes beyond "mortgage interest" deductions that I've seen.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
Curious what the "giveaways" and "loopholes" are in corporate tax.   In personal income tax, there are no real loopholes beyond "mortgage interest" deductions that I've seen.
Click to expand...
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-large-corporations-get-around-paying-less-in-taxes.aspx

The largest corporations pay the least in corporate taxes.  That needs to be fixed or competition will continue to be stifled.

The Economist had a really good article on our transition to a stagnant economy a few weeks ago.  We simply aren't innovating like we used to and that has been a severe drag on the economy.  The corporate tax code needs to be made more equitable.

I had an investment finance friend once explain to me how the mega-wealthy take out personal loans on their assets and use them as both income and a tax exemption.  I don't recall all the details, but I'm sure you could look them up.  Given the complexity of the tax code there are quite a few games that can be played.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jonessed said:
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-large-corporations-get-around-paying-less-in-taxes.aspx

The largest corporations pay the least in corporate taxes.  That needs to be fixed or competition will continue to be stifled.

The Economist had a really good article on our transition to a stagnant economy a few weeks ago.  We simply aren't innovating like we used to and that has been a severe drag on the economy.  The corporate tax code needs to be made more equitable.
Click to expand...
I'm firmly in the camp that a major corporate tax rate reduction biggest impact will be buybacks. They'll do the same here as with 0% interest rates.

 
jonessed said:
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-large-corporations-get-around-paying-less-in-taxes.aspx

The largest corporations pay the least in corporate taxes.  That needs to be fixed or competition will continue to be stifled.

The Economist had a really good article on our transition to a stagnant economy a few weeks ago.  We simply aren't innovating like we used to and that has been a severe drag on the economy.  The corporate tax code needs to be made more equitable.
Click to expand...
that really only mentions offshore cash generation (which already isn't taxed) and aggressive depreciation.  Maybe you're suggesting raising the corporate tax rate on offshore business?  I think that would just accelerate companies departing the US, no?

 
MarvinTScamper said:
that really only mentions offshore cash generation (which already isn't taxed) and aggressive depreciation.  Maybe you're suggesting raising the corporate tax rate on offshore business?  I think that would just accelerate companies departing the US, no?
Click to expand...
I just grabbed the first article that popped up.  I'll see if I can find a better one later.  The Economist had a good one, but I dont have a digital copy.

 
that's ok - I'm just curious since so many people think the rich have a lot of "loopholes" and they don't.  Many of the loopholes are long gone.

 
Don Quixote said:
WSJ reporting that the 15% rate would also apply to pass-through businesses. Link That's going to be costly.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand this - S and partnership income would be taxed 15% before passing-through to the owners and taxed again at owner level (creating a second-layer of tax on pass-throughs) or 0% at entity level and 15% at owner level rather than (presumably) ordinary rates at owner level?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve Tasker said:
I'm not sure I understand this - S and partnership income would be taxed 15% before passing-through to the owners and taxed again at owner level (creating a second-layer of tax on pass-throughs) or 0% at entity level and 15% at owner level rather than (presumably) ordinary rates at owner level?
Click to expand...
0% across the board, no tax, no increase in deficit. Nobody does tax reform like Trump.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I'm not sure I understand this - S and partnership income would be taxed 15% before passing-through to the owners and taxed again at owner level (creating a second-layer of tax on pass-throughs) or 0% at entity level and 15% at owner level rather than (presumably) ordinary rates at owner level?
Click to expand...
It is the latter, as I understand it.

ETA: Tax twitter is all jokes about setting up personal LLCs.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve Tasker said:
I'm not sure I understand this - S and partnership income would be taxed 15% before passing-through to the owners and taxed again at owner level (creating a second-layer of tax on pass-throughs) or 0% at entity level and 15% at owner level rather than (presumably) ordinary rates at owner level?
Click to expand...
yeah, I'd like to hear this too.

 
So if you drop the tax rate on anything with a K1 to 15%, you can then go ahead and elliminate the carried interest "loophole" that taxes at the long term cap gains rate of ...15%.  And put out a bunch of headlines about how you're sticking it to the hedge fund billionaires.

 
elbowrm said:
So if you drop the tax rate on anything with a K1 to 15%, you can then go ahead and elliminate the carried interest "loophole" that taxes at the long term cap gains rate of ...15%.  And put out a bunch of headlines about how you're sticking it to the hedge fund billionaires.
Click to expand...
This would be amazing for me personally but can't imagine it would actually happen.  

 
Acosta tweeted this summary (as of yesterday).

On the personal side, every personal deduction except mortgage interest and charitable contributions is eliminated.  That means the state and local tax deduction is out, which is huge (particularly in states with high tax rates) -- but even with that, still well short of paying for the cut.  Given the increase to the standard deduction, a lot more people will probably take standard deduction instead of itemize.

Territorial is noteworthy on the business side.  Interested to see what they call special interest tax breaks that will be eliminated.

 
I read on CNBC earlier (or it might've been from David Stockman, I don't remember) that for every point tax is cut, we need to make up for $120B in revenue. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I read on CNBC earlier (or it might've been from David Stockman, I don't remember) that for every point tax is cut, we need to make up for $120B in revenue. 
Click to expand...
One of the tax twitterers that I follow tweeted the estimated cost of tax plan (even with SALT deduction gone) is $4.8 trillion over 10 years. Link

ETA: But still short on a lot of specifics; just a ballpark number.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Don Quixote said:
Acosta tweeted this summary (as of yesterday).

On the personal side, every personal deduction except mortgage interest and charitable contributions is eliminated.  That means the state and local tax deduction is out, which is huge (particularly in states with high tax rates) -- but even with that, still well short of paying for the cut.  Given the increase to the standard deduction, a lot more people will probably take standard deduction instead of itemize.

Territorial is noteworthy on the business side.  Interested to see what they call special interest tax breaks that will be eliminated.
Click to expand...
Easy one for the Republicans to push through given most of those states are democratic leaning.  

 
Redwes25 said:
Easy one for the Republicans to push through given most of those states are democratic leaning.  
Click to expand...
I don't know about that.  No Democrats are going to support (even in low tax states).  But Republican representatives in high tax states like California and New York are going to face a decent amount of pressure from constituents.

 
Don Quixote said:
Acosta tweeted this summary (as of yesterday).

On the personal side, every personal deduction except mortgage interest and charitable contributions is eliminated.  That means the state and local tax deduction is out, which is huge (particularly in states with high tax rates) -- but even with that, still well short of paying for the cut.  Given the increase to the standard deduction, a lot more people will probably take standard deduction instead of itemize.

Territorial is noteworthy on the business side.  Interested to see what they call special interest tax breaks that will be eliminated.
Click to expand...
I read in the NY Times that Trump wants to simply raise the standard deduction, which minimizes/eliminates the impact of spending on a home purchase to beat the standard deduction hurdle for any added tax benefit via RE taxes and the mortgage interest deduction paid. Which would clearly have the RE industry foaming at the mouth as that's a big selling point to get people to buy a home and for the broker to get their fee.

 
mquinnjr said:
I read in the NY Times that Trump wants to simply raise the standard deduction, which minimizes/eliminates the impact of spending on a home purchase to beat the standard deduction hurdle for any added tax benefit via RE taxes and the mortgage interest deduction paid. Which would clearly have the RE industry foaming at the mouth as that's a big selling point to get people to buy a home and for the broker to get their fee.
Click to expand...
The home builder lobby aint going to be pleased either, and they are a YUGE lobby group.

 
Did I "mis-hear" that there were some 401K implications on this?  I did a search for 401 in this thread and got nothing back.

Did I just imagine that?

 
Statorama said:
The home builder lobby aint going to be pleased either, and they are a YUGE lobby group.
Click to expand...
Yep. Sucks to be them or in RE if this is enacted. Market will adjust, but that sell point is effectively off the table going forward if Trump's proposal goes through.

 
mquinnjr said:
I read in the NY Times that Trump wants to simply raise the standard deduction, which minimizes/eliminates the impact of spending on a home purchase to beat the standard deduction hurdle for any added tax benefit via RE taxes and the mortgage interest deduction paid. Which would clearly have the RE industry foaming at the mouth as that's a big selling point to get people to buy a home and for the broker to get their fee.
Click to expand...
I would rather just eliminate the mortgage interest deduction, but reaming renters is crappy policy.  At least this can alleviate some of the penalty.

I don't know what will end up making it through though.  This is going to get changed a lot.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Don Quixote said:
Acosta tweeted this summary (as of yesterday).

On the personal side, every personal deduction except mortgage interest and charitable contributions is eliminated.  That means the state and local tax deduction is out, which is huge (particularly in states with high tax rates) -- but even with that, still well short of paying for the cut.  Given the increase to the standard deduction, a lot more people will probably take standard deduction instead of itemize.

Territorial is noteworthy on the business side.  Interested to see what they call special interest tax breaks that will be eliminated.
Click to expand...
Territorial would be a big shift.  Repatriation holiday in there too.  The problem with the repatriation holiday is that it's political red meat that sounds great on paper but has questionable long-term results....results that probably wouldn't really be fully understood until Trump leaves office. 

 
Didn't we learn a lesson from the 2004 Tax Holiday? In that instance, it wasn't beneficial at all from all the research I've read. 

 
RUSF18 said:
I tried.
Click to expand...
This goes back to a lot of my anger earlier thread.

Don't mortgage my future for profits today. I consider ####### with my 401k to be the most obnoxious form of ####### with my future. 

I want it to grow tax free until I withdraw, taxing me annually hinders that heavily. 

If it comes down to taxing my 401k or IRA annually to achieve greater corporate profits (so they can ultimately buyback more shares), I would be extremely angry!

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Didn't we learn a lesson from the 2004 Tax Holiday? In that instance, it wasn't beneficial at all from all the research I've read.
Click to expand...
Politicians don't learn policy lessons.  Politicians learn election lessons.  If there were no negative election/reelection consequences from a previous action or policy, why wouldn't future politicians do the same thing again?

 
So there are no details, ####### shocking!! Thought he was going to release details. 

So this entire buildup was to tell us there will be tax reform, is he still campaigning? 

That's it!! I officially ####### hate Trump!! Furthermore, I officially hate anyone that voted for this ####### lying moron!! He has absolutely zero interests in helping anyone but himself and other billionaires. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
fantasycurse42 said:
This goes back to a lot of my anger earlier thread.

Don't mortgage my future for profits today. I consider ####### with my 401k to be the most obnoxious form of ####### with my future. 

I want it to grow tax free until I withdraw, taxing me annually hinders that heavily. 

If it comes down to taxing my 401k or IRA annually to achieve greater corporate profits (so they can ultimately buyback more shares), I would be extremely angry!
Click to expand...
People are going to do the math, and whatever ends up working best for them is the route they will take. If some proposed tax on 401k accounts is worse than just investing in a taxable account, just go with a taxable account, or the Roth option in a 401k. Just take the mathematically best/tax advantaged option available, that will be the reaction.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Bingo!! That chick nailed it - he prob has his own personal accountant working on his personal tax plan. 
Click to expand...
I wonder how AMT repeal got in there?  Oh... doing away with AMT would have saved him $30+M in the return that Maddow reported.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not all that different from the plan that Trump proposed in the fall.  The two main differences are territorial on the business side and taking away state and local tax deductions (instead of a cap) on the individual side.  Lots of details still needed.

I'm not clear what, if any, progress they have made since then.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rich Conway said:
Politicians don't learn policy lessons.  Politicians learn election lessons.  If there were no negative election/reelection consequences from a previous action or policy, why wouldn't future politicians do the same thing again?
Click to expand...


Steve Tasker said:
Territorial would be a big shift.  Repatriation holiday in there too.  The problem with the repatriation holiday is that it's political red meat that sounds great on paper but has questionable long-term results....results that probably wouldn't really be fully understood until Trump leaves office. 
Click to expand...
 
mquinnjr said:
People are going to do the math, and whatever ends up working best for them is the route they will take. If some proposed tax on 401k accounts is worse than just investing in a taxable account, just go with a taxable account, or the Roth option in a 401k. Just take the mathematically best/tax advantaged option available, that will be the reaction.
Click to expand...
Australian retirement plans - and probably some others, I have no idea, but I am familiar with Australia's - tax income inside the accounts annually at preferential rates.  The amounts are generally tax-free to the taxpayer when withdrawn, though there are obviously a myriad of rules and caveats that go along with it.  So it's not an unprecedented idea on the worldwide whole.

If they do start to tax 401(k) earnings, or close the backdoor Roth loophole or eliminate Roths altogether or whatever, I have to imagine that current plans would be grandfathered and locked-in.  Something like they're allowed to continue to grow tax-deferred or tax-free, but the taxpayer can't contribute any further, etc.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
mquinnjr said:
I read in the NY Times that Trump wants to simply raise the standard deduction, which minimizes/eliminates the impact of spending on a home purchase to beat the standard deduction hurdle for any added tax benefit via RE taxes and the mortgage interest deduction paid. Which would clearly have the RE industry foaming at the mouth as that's a big selling point to get people to buy a home and for the broker to get their fee.
Click to expand...
This was actually a huge selling point for me.  being single and a W2 employee my only substantial write off, outside of my 401K, is mortgage interest.  Without it, i get killed in taxes.  When looking at the net effect, post tax, of buying a place vs renting it wasn't even close (I live in Studio City CA where rents are very high in comparison to other places outside of NY and SF in the US).  now coming up with the 200k for a down payment was a PIA but good long term solution.  

 
Don Quixote said:
One of the tax twitterers that I follow tweeted the estimated cost of tax plan (even with SALT deduction gone) is $4.8 trillion over 10 years. Link

ETA: But still short on a lot of specifics; just a ballpark number.
Click to expand...
I am not a Twitterer, or whatever the heck you call a person that uses Twitter, so please educate me around the validity of what you are posting as fact.  Does anyone fact check these posts or are they someone's opinion?  

 
sbonomo said:
I am not a Twitterer, or whatever the heck you call a person that uses Twitter, so please educate me around the validity of what you are posting as fact.  Does anyone fact check these posts or are they someone's opinion?  
Click to expand...
It depends on the person.

The person that I cited is a former Chief Tax Counsel for the Senate Finance Committee; so, she is a somewhat reliable source. And she was taking adjusted numbers from an earlier analysis by the Tax Policy Center. So, it seemed to me a decent starting point for a ballpark number. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Juxtatarot
Border-adjusted corporate tax
Replies
2
Views
560
skol asylum
skol asylum
S
  • Locked
New ***Official*** President-Elect Trump thread
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
timschochet
timschochet
Hilts
President Trump's first 100 days...latest policy proposals in first post
15 16 17
Replies
805
Views
29K
Man of Constant Sorrow
Man of Constant Sorrow

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top