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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JZilla
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Fortunetely happy hour beer lasts until first pitch. Been a looooooooooong happy hour. 
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Gio is brutal
Swing 51
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Yeah our seats are right by the bag, terrific play.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Offense has sucked, and getting picked off to end the game sucks, but they lost that game last night due to bad breaks, not poor play. The blown review hurt, and the Nats losing a based loaded one out situation in the sixth when they couldn't challenge the missed call on Harper's "groundout" because of the blown replay hurt even worse. I suspect we'll be getting another MLB apology today like the one the Royals got yesterday.
As stupid and unfair as that was, the games with the Cubs have been great. It was a fun series in Chicago and this one is off to a great start. Should be a packed house all weekend too.
Also nice to see Gio and the bullpen have some success considering how things have been going lately. I'm still all in on Aaron Barrett.
As stupid and unfair as that was, the games with the Cubs have been great. It was a fun series in Chicago and this one is off to a great start. Should be a packed house all weekend too.
Also nice to see Gio and the bullpen have some success considering how things have been going lately. I'm still all in on Aaron Barrett.
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https://twitter.com/masnKerr/status/606869184463704064
Nationals pitching prospect Joe Ross will be called up on Saturday to make his major league debut against the Cubs.
The feeling had been that A.J. Cole would get the call, but it appears the Nats are
inclined to keep him in long relief. The younger brother of Padres' hurler Tyson Ross, Joe turned just 22 last month and has made only 12 starts above A-ball. He's a top-100 prospect and has been good in 2015, though, posting a 2.81 ERA with 54 strikeouts over 51 1/3 frames for Double-A Harrisburg. Ross could be needed for a few starts depending on how long Stephen Strasburg (neck) and Doug Fister (elbow) are out.
Nationals pitching prospect Joe Ross will be called up on Saturday to make his major league debut against the Cubs.
The feeling had been that A.J. Cole would get the call, but it appears the Nats are
inclined to keep him in long relief. The younger brother of Padres' hurler Tyson Ross, Joe turned just 22 last month and has made only 12 starts above A-ball. He's a top-100 prospect and has been good in 2015, though, posting a 2.81 ERA with 54 strikeouts over 51 1/3 frames for Double-A Harrisburg. Ross could be needed for a few starts depending on how long Stephen Strasburg (neck) and Doug Fister (elbow) are out.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm not really sure how someone (rotoworld?) thinks that Ross could be needed for a few starts. The replacements for Strasburg and Fister are Taylor Jordan and Tanner Roark respectively. The reason they need Ross tomorrow is that Zimmermann's start earlier this week got pushed back a day by the rainout.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
They sent Jordan back yesterday though. Is the rule that you have to wait 10 days to call back up? It is probably Cole or Ross in that spot next turn.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Don't they have to put someone on the DL subsequent to the option for the waiver to apply though? Which I guess they could do. (I could be off on my memory.)
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Totally missed that. I thought it was Taylor Hill they'd sent back.
####ing kids, distracting me from properly tracking moves on the fringes of the 25 man roster.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Why Ross instead of AJ Cole?
Also can someone explain the new schtick of batting the pitcher 8th? When only Maddon was doing it I figured it was because he has a screw loose anyway but seems others are doing it too now. What am I missing?
Also can someone explain the new schtick of batting the pitcher 8th? When only Maddon was doing it I figured it was because he has a screw loose anyway but seems others are doing it too now. What am I missing?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Who knows. I trust our front office to know our guys, I guess. Maybe. Although they still seem to think Tyler Moore has value, so maybe I shouldn't.
The pitcher batting 8th thing is the optimal lineup if you discard the old-school notion of having a slap-hitting type bat second and instead use a stud in that spot, which the numbers say you should do (gets more PAs, far fewer PAs with two outs and nobody on). Also you're supposed to have a high OBP guy first even if he's slow, rather than the old-school strategy of just defaulting to your fastest guy who doesn't suck. If you do that you want to make it more likely that someone will be on base for those guys. I don't think it matters very much but if you run teams through an optimal lineup generator you pretty much always get the pitcher in the 8 spot I think.
I wish Maddon was our manager. One thing's for sure- he wouldn't have left Treinen out there in the 6th with a lefty up. That was unbelievably dumb. I'm losing patience with Williams, who talked a good game about incorporating advanced stats when he got here but has been incredibly square and old-fashioned most of the time with his lineups and roles for bullpen guys.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's interesting you say this, because the camera cut to Williams following a Rizzo single that beat the shift, and I felt Williams looked visibly annoyed like he was thinking, "if they weren't making me do this shift crap that would have been an out!"
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
So Matt wants to try Espinosa in OF to get him more PT now that Rendon is back. That's great because he's hitting but if you're going to play him then leave him in the infield since he's great defensively.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Nats have traded for RP David Carpenter
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's an awkward situation. You can't really bench Desmond even if it makes sense in the short term- he's got a good track record of bouncing back from previous struggles, plus benching a slumping star in his free agency year would cost him tens of millions of dollars and would be disastrous in the clubhouse and to future efforts to procure talent. I think it would be hard for him to learn 1B on the fly, plus it would waste his cannon arm, plus Zim obviously as a special place with the org and the fans.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Zim on the DL now so looks like a Tyler Moore Clint Robinson platoon for a couple weeks.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm out of patience for Matt Williams. Last night we had our best 3B playing 2B, our best 2B playing SS, and our best SS playing 3B. This isn't ####ing rocket science. And that's before we even get to leaving in a starter too long and blowing a late lead for the third game in a row. And if one more beat writer tells me that he's doing it because our ineffective bullpen doesn't leave him much choice I might lose it. Our bullpen ERA is 3.66. Our starters' ERA is 4.08. Even a crappy major league bullpen is superior to a clearly gassed starter.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
So two games into the Moore/Robinson 1B platoon produces two HR so naturally our best defensive infielder is playing 1B today.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Gio is hot garbage
I think Williams biggest shortcoming is managing the bullpen. He was given a much less experienced bullpen and he proceeded to stick very young players in high leverage situations and watch them implode. Stammen and Thornton should have been holding down the 8th inning (with maybe some Barrett) until the new relievers proved they were reliable enough. The injuries has exacerbated the situation. Now they call up reliever like Matt Grace, it does well, they quickly move him to the 8th inning, has a bad outing, and then back to the minors.
The Nats bullpen is very poorly managed. Rizzo has said he thinks they have the arms, we just need to find the right roles. It doesn't sound like Rizzo thinks the bullpen is managed well either.
The Nats bullpen is very poorly managed. Rizzo has said he thinks they have the arms, we just need to find the right roles. It doesn't sound like Rizzo thinks the bullpen is managed well either.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Multiple times last night hard-hit balls shot right past Yunel Escobar for hits in huge spots.
Rendon has been playing 3B almost his entire life. He knows what the ball looks like off the bat from that angle. He snares hot shots over there constantly ... when they play him there. In contrast, Escobar has been in the middle infield his whole life. He's used to being a little further from the plate and having a little more time to react. He also has lost more experience making the wider variety of throws you have to make and footwork you have to use in the middle infield. And yet here we are, with Escobar at 3B and Rendon at 2B for no reason whatsoever.
Williams has been horrendous this year. The infield roles, the bullpen, the refusal to employ defensive shifts regularly despite promising to do so when he was hired, sticking with the starters far too long because he doesn't trust his bullpen (which has a much lower ERA than the starters, by the way). Stubborn mistake after stubborn mistake.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
As it turns out, a team that is forced to bat either career minor league journeyman Clint Robinson or Wilson Ramos and his .672 OPS in the 5 spot is not going to be a productive one.
God forbid Matt Williams consider doing something unconventional like moving Harper to the 2 spot so he can see some pitches to hit.
Also the greatest rotation of the last 20 years has turned out to actually be mediocre. But that's not really news.
The core problem with the Nats: Most of the team is just under-performing relative to expectations. The list includes: Strasburg, Zimmermann, Fister, Gio, Zimmerman, Werth, Desmond, and almost the entire bullpen except Storen. Many of these players have been downright bad.
Many people will point to all of the injuries the Nats have had. And you can include Werth in that category. But way too many players are just not playing well.
One note: Scherzer signed a huge contract and has looked good. But signings like that also send out a message to the team and in this case, it may have been a bad message. It is clear the Nats will not sign Jordan Zimmermann to a long term contract. It also greatly decreased the chances of signing Strasburg to another contract. And furthermore, for the first time, Strasburg is not considered the top pitcher on the staff. Maybe it shouldn't, but these things can have an impact on players. I attribute Storen's poor season a couple years ago directly to the Rafael Soriano signing. Strasburg and Zimmermann's struggles could be directly related to the Scherzer signing.
Many people will point to all of the injuries the Nats have had. And you can include Werth in that category. But way too many players are just not playing well.
One note: Scherzer signed a huge contract and has looked good. But signings like that also send out a message to the team and in this case, it may have been a bad message. It is clear the Nats will not sign Jordan Zimmermann to a long term contract. It also greatly decreased the chances of signing Strasburg to another contract. And furthermore, for the first time, Strasburg is not considered the top pitcher on the staff. Maybe it shouldn't, but these things can have an impact on players. I attribute Storen's poor season a couple years ago directly to the Rafael Soriano signing. Strasburg and Zimmermann's struggles could be directly related to the Scherzer signing.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
To be fair you can also include Zimmerman, Fister and Strasburg in that category. All three are currently on the DL (Fister coming off today) with injuries they've been dealing with all year that most likely affected their performance prior to their DL stints. Zimmerman's was the most obvious and he's admitted it, but I think the pitchers were hampered by their injury problems too.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I was watching that last night. Man that was great.
Then you have the couple in the back taking selfies which was annoying as hell.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
The Nats have also played a lot of road games so far. I think I saw a stat before the game yesterday that they were tied for fewest home games in the majors so far. Not a huge deal, but it's something -- particularly when you compare to the Mets who have played among the most home games in the majors and have a pretty absurd split (Mets are 26-11 at home and 10-20 on the road).
...Announced that Roark is going back to the 'pen, with Ross getting the start tomorrow (probably his last start before Strasburg returns). Meanwhile, Gio will likely stay in the rotation despite being about the 7th best option.
...Announced that Roark is going back to the 'pen, with Ross getting the start tomorrow (probably his last start before Strasburg returns). Meanwhile, Gio will likely stay in the rotation despite being about the 7th best option.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I hope Zimmermann and Strasburg stay and Fister and Gio go somehow. The 4th and 5th guys can easily be Roark and Ross. AJ Cole is still around and Giolito is on the way too.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Harper knee...oooooooof
Don Quixote
Footballguy
They are saying just a mild hamstring strain. I guess it's a more of a Three Mile Island than Chernobyl now.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Let's hope so, him going down would really be horrific. Fister sucked tonight, Desmond may never rebound, and Strasburg is a delicate flower. Not to mention hot garbage Gio and no hit Zimm.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Here's my guess at the the lineup tonight:
Span
Rendon
Escobar
Robinson
Ramos
Espinosa
Desmond
Taylor
Ross
If someone who doesn't follow the team closely asks what's wrong with this year's squad, you can show them the June 19 starting lineup. I would be very surprised if that's not the ugliest card in major league baseball tonight.
Span
Rendon
Escobar
Robinson
Ramos
Espinosa
Desmond
Taylor
Ross
If someone who doesn't follow the team closely asks what's wrong with this year's squad, you can show them the June 19 starting lineup. I would be very surprised if that's not the ugliest card in major league baseball tonight.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yes and no. Werth and Zimmerman weren't performing. The pitchers aren't performing. Williams stinks managing these pitchers. Not just injuries.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you mean by "yes and no"? I wasn't saying it was just injuries, although I think that's a big part of it. This graph is pretty telling. But yeah, that lineup isn't ugly solely because of injuries. If that was 2012 Ramos and Desmond in there, it would be merely mediocre instead of horrifying.
I'm also pretty convinced that Zim wasn't performing because of the injury. That probably wasn't the case with Werth, but if you give Werth his career norms for the 27 games he actually played (remember he started the season on the DL too) instead of the numbers he actually produced I don't think it adds more than maybe one win.
Anyway, they're very lucky to be in a terrible division and that the initial diagnosis on Harper isn't too severe (although the initial diagnosis on Rendon was also day-to-day). So the breaks haven't been all bad. Just mostly bad.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
What a weekend. Thursday night when we thought Harper was out for a while I would have been happy to come out of the weekend still 1.5 back.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
One week. We went from panicked to sitting pretty in a week. 7/2 to win the National League now. What an incredible turnaround.
According to Baseball Prospectus our chances of making the playoffs this year have increased 19.2% over the last seven days, which is a lot when you consider that we were still over 60% seven days ago. And that doesn't even account for the fact that we thought we were gonna lose Harper for a while last Thursday night/Friday. The Mets are -26.9%.
We went to the game yesterday. Some quick thoughts:
Shelby Miller was basically unhittable. The Nats were really fortunate to score a run in the 7th. Span walked, the first walk of the game. Rendon hit a chopper that found it way through the hole between SS and 3B. Escobar grounded into a fieders choice. Then Harper, with the hardest.furthest ball hit of Miller all day, hit a blooper that was just beyond the reach of the 2nd baseman to score the run. That was the only ball to make it to the outfield in their off Miller.
Zimmerman pitched a really good game. He has 8 shutout innings. There were a few hard hit balls to the outfield, but none found the gap. I thought one might be a 2 run homer, but it was caught at the base of the wall.
Chick-Fil-A is giving out chicken sandwiches to ticket holders if they get a home save. I thought we were in good shape, up 1-0 in the top of the 9th. But Store blew the save. Only the 2nd blown save all year, but this on cost me a chicken sandwich.
Twice, with a runner on 2nd and 1 out, the Braves elected to issue an intentional walk to set up the double play. I thought the strategy was very questionable. The first time it worked. But in the 11th inning, they changed pitchers and the next batter walked to load the bases. That set it up for Desmond's sac fly. Very questionable strategy by Atlanta.
We stayed for the whole game. It moved along and finished right around 10 pm.
Shelby Miller was basically unhittable. The Nats were really fortunate to score a run in the 7th. Span walked, the first walk of the game. Rendon hit a chopper that found it way through the hole between SS and 3B. Escobar grounded into a fieders choice. Then Harper, with the hardest.furthest ball hit of Miller all day, hit a blooper that was just beyond the reach of the 2nd baseman to score the run. That was the only ball to make it to the outfield in their off Miller.
Zimmerman pitched a really good game. He has 8 shutout innings. There were a few hard hit balls to the outfield, but none found the gap. I thought one might be a 2 run homer, but it was caught at the base of the wall.
Chick-Fil-A is giving out chicken sandwiches to ticket holders if they get a home save. I thought we were in good shape, up 1-0 in the top of the 9th. But Store blew the save. Only the 2nd blown save all year, but this on cost me a chicken sandwich.
Twice, with a runner on 2nd and 1 out, the Braves elected to issue an intentional walk to set up the double play. I thought the strategy was very questionable. The first time it worked. But in the 11th inning, they changed pitchers and the next batter walked to load the bases. That set it up for Desmond's sac fly. Very questionable strategy by Atlanta.
We stayed for the whole game. It moved along and finished right around 10 pm.
