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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JZilla
- Start date
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
What's the O/U on baserunners against Gio tonight? 11?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
This team isn't very good, but they've caught a lot of bad breaks as well. I went back and checked the schedule- the last time we ducked a good starter in a series was at the end of June when we avoided Cole Hamels in a series against Philly when he was still there. Since then:
3 @ Braves- Shelby Miller
3 vs Giants- Bumgarner
2 vs Red- Cueto
3 @ BAL- no real ace but they faced their best, Chen
3 vs Dodgers- Kershaw and Greinke
3 vs Mets- Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard
4 @ Pirates- Cole and Liriano
3 @ Marlins- Jose Fernandez
3 @ Mets- Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard
They finally got a break with the DBacks and Rockies because those teams just don't have those kind of starters, but now they get Kershaw and Greinke again in three games in Los Angeles and then Bumgarner again in four games in SF.
You only have a 60% chance of facing a particular starter in a three game set, yet somehow the Nats haven't missed a single tough matchup since late June. Some of it was deliberate with the Mets lining up their guys, but mostly it's just been horrible luck.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
At this point I would be very surprised if the Nats make the playoffs. They're probably going to be 3.5 games back after tonight (Dodgers and Mets are both -200 or higher tonight and that will go up when Harper isn't in the lineup). 3.5 games behind with 50 or so to play chasing a decent team with a really soft schedule that will probably play close to .600 from here on out is a very tall order.
I think it is time to look at Drew Storen once again.
I had earlier raised concerns about trading for a closer and moving Storen to the set up role. In general, if Storen implodes like he did 2 years ago when they signed Soriano, the Nationals basically swapped Papelbon for Storen while giving up a prospect. If Storen can pitch like he did as a set up guy last year or as a close this year in the 8th, the Nationals have made a big upgrade in the bullpen.
After a good first week, Storen has now had 3 straight bad outings. Every reliever hits ruts and needs to work through them. Storen hadn't had one this year yet, but has one now. We are at the cross roads now to see if Storen can pull it back together or if he implodes like he did 2 years ago.
By the way, even with the risks involved, the trade was probably the right move to make. If they could have traded for a set up man, I think it would have been less risky. But there may not have been a good one available.
I had earlier raised concerns about trading for a closer and moving Storen to the set up role. In general, if Storen implodes like he did 2 years ago when they signed Soriano, the Nationals basically swapped Papelbon for Storen while giving up a prospect. If Storen can pitch like he did as a set up guy last year or as a close this year in the 8th, the Nationals have made a big upgrade in the bullpen.
After a good first week, Storen has now had 3 straight bad outings. Every reliever hits ruts and needs to work through them. Storen hadn't had one this year yet, but has one now. We are at the cross roads now to see if Storen can pull it back together or if he implodes like he did 2 years ago.
By the way, even with the risks involved, the trade was probably the right move to make. If they could have traded for a set up man, I think it would have been less risky. But there may not have been a good one available.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm not totally ready to throw in the towel. They need to finish this road trip at least 4-3 I think and hopefully get home with the deficit no greater than 4 games if the Pirates and Orioles provide a little more resistance for the Mets than the Rockies have.Swing 51 said:
The good news is that I think they can do it. Rotation finally looks like it we hoped it would, and the two guys I have the most faith in- Scherzer and Strasburg- will start four of the last seven games on this trip. The offense looked to be coming around a bit before the Kershaw/Greinke buzzsaw and Harper's knee injury (he was clearly still hurt yesterday, missed three center cut fastballs in one AB at one point).
Now if they come home 5 or 6 back next weekend it might be time to turn our attention to the Redskins. I'm sure that will go well.
So unless I'm wrong, they are now 1-3 on this roadtrip out west, they've scored 1 run in 27 innings and find themselves 4.5 games back of Los Metropolitans. They are 2 games over .500 and are 7.5 out in in the NL wildcard. Zimmermann and Strasburg have just lost back-to-back. The "we've had injuries to key players" argument is about played out since everyone except Span is back from the DL. Oh, yeah, and Storen is now essentially useless after being "demoted" to an 8th inning guy, and the big time closer sits in the bullpen because they can't get any leads to protect.
Bryce, if you want a ring, you'd better "went to Jared"...
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You know I'm not Bryce Harper, right? I'm not even on the team.
I'm sorry you're disappointed. Unfortunately I'm not really in a position to do anything about it. Sorry!
Actually, I'm not that disappointed. I'm an O's fan and we have our own issues to worry about.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Ah, I see. Just throwing salt in the wounds of your fellow local sports fans, then.
I don't know why you Orioles fans get a bad rap!
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
We faced Liriano-Locke-Burnett-Cole in our four game series in Pittsburgh. The Mets get Happ-Morton-Locke this weekend. Unbelievable. Absolutely cannot get a break from the baseball gods at all.
####. This. Season.
####. This. Season.
JZilla
Footballguy
Living in Baltimore now, I'm impressed when any O's fan shows an awareness of the actual game/other teams existing, but I think it may be a smidge early to pour dirt on the Nationals and hand the division to Los Mets, even as consistently dominant as those guys have been in recent years 
I mean two weeks
Also, gb DCT but he's always been anti-DC-baseball, I think they tore down his favorite crack alley when they built the park. If Team AngelO's are good enough for him, they're good enough for all you G-town hipster ####s!
Certainly not a great stretch here, but I feel like the Nats are probably good enough to pull it together and still be in the conversation a month+ from now. We'll have to see.
I mean two weeksAlso, gb DCT but he's always been anti-DC-baseball, I think they tore down his favorite crack alley when they built the park. If Team AngelO's are good enough for him, they're good enough for all you G-town hipster ####s!
Certainly not a great stretch here, but I feel like the Nats are probably good enough to pull it together and still be in the conversation a month+ from now. We'll have to see.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
In times like these I remember the wise words of Flip Saunders. Nobody has ever captured the feeling of being a DC sports fan quite like Flip, who said in 2009 (right before the Arenas guns in the locker room story broke): "Don't think it can't get any worse, because it can." Yup, it sure can. Wasted opportunity this weekend with the Mets getting swept ... although I'm sure they look at it as a wasted opportunity to put away the division for good.
I saw that they swung and missed at like 46% of Bumgarner's pitches, a ridiculous whiff total. I don't care how good he is, that tells me that there's something mentally wrong with these guys. That's an obscene number, far higher than you'd expect if the worst K team in the league was facing Sale or Kershaw, let alone a "contender" with lots of right-handed bats facing Bumgarner.
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Swing 51
Footballguy
Rizzo giving Williams a vote of confidence. You know what comes next (although usually in football).
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/washington-nationals-gm-rizzo-vote-of-confidence-081715
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Matt Williams is making his lineup by pulling names out of his ### now?
Swing 51
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I've disliked Matt Williams since about a month into 2014 and I agree with 99% of Keith Law's criticism, but for some reason I was OK with last night's lineup. Werth is having a horrible year but he's been an OBP machine for most of his career, maybe moving to the leadoff spot will get him to change his approach and go back to seeing a ton of pitches and working some walks, which is what he should be doing since the power is gone. Giving Rendon a day off against a right-hander with two lefties coming up made sense too. Now he gets to hit against lefties at Coors two days in a row. If that doesn't jump-start his bat then it might be time to throw in the towel on his 2015.Ramblin Wreck said:
I'm actually more frustrated with Rizzo this week, which is a strange twist. No idea how Will Venable made it past the Nats on waivers. He's exactly what the team needs.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I didn't really have an opinion on lady nights lineup. It's that he flips people around every damn day.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Seeing all of the Rays' fans marveling at Xavier Cedeno has been another frustrating thing this week. After deciding to give him the job based on what they saw in spring training, maybe he should have been given more than a week.
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Don Quixote
Footballguy
Trea Turner getting called up. Interested to see how/if Williams uses him.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup. I'm happy they're going all hands on deck down the stretch here, but I don't see any way he gets regular time. 2B/SS/3B is the only place the Nats have a glut. They're having a hard enough time getting Rendon and Espi into games now that Desmond has finally come around. Who knows, though.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Three game series against the Padres and we get Shields-Ross-Cashner. Mets go to Philly for four and still somehow avoid their only respectable starter, stud prospect Aaron Nola.
Seriously, #### this season. It's hard enough making up 5.5 games on a team that's better than you, this continuing bad luck makes it pretty much impossible.
RUSF18
Footballguy
You should keep on hoping for that same ####ty luck if it gets you what occurred in the Mets-Bucs weekend series.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup- although if we'd gotten that motley crew in Pittsburgh we might have managed more than one win over the four game series.
But like Zilla suggests, it doesn't matter that much. They're not winning the games they should win, pitching matchups or no. The 3-4 homestand against the Rockies and DBacks coming off the tough but not disastrous sweep in Queens was the beginning of the end. The rotation and matchups were set up for 5-2 or 6-1 and they just didn't get it done.
And more importantly, the Mets are just better than the Nats right now. I think the Nats may need a sweep in the Labor Day series just to make it interesting- remember the Nats go to St Louis next week too, so chances of the margin being closer than 5 or so when that head to head series comes around are pretty slim.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Nats are finally juggling their rotation to line up Scherzer/Strasburg/Zimmermann to face the Mets, six weeks too late. About as close as you'll come to a manager/front office admitting that they ####ed up.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Hey, our manager is managing things. Maybe Storen/Papelbon will get to pitch even if it's not in the flow chart.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Party's over. Nice to go out with one last ridiculous managerial screwup as Williams refused to double-switch when he brought in Fister even though Desmond has just batted and he had Espinosa and Turner on the bench (resulting in a Fister AB while down 5-1) and then defended the 3-0 Escobar swing that effectively ended the season.
If we have to lose to someone I'm glad it was the Mets. Decent fans (at least as compared to Atlanta and Philly) who deserve something to cheer about. Congrats to them. Next season should be fun.
If we have to lose to someone I'm glad it was the Mets. Decent fans (at least as compared to Atlanta and Philly) who deserve something to cheer about. Congrats to them. Next season should be fun.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
We are getting rid of Gio, resigning J-Zimmermann, dumping Werth's remaining contract and finding someone to protect Harper in the lineup?
How about just one of those?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
We already have people to protect Harper in the lineup- Rendon in front of him and Zimmerman and Escobar behind him. Zim and Rendon have had mediocre years due to injury but if you've been watching the last couple weeks you know that if they're healthy it's more than enough. The scouts have certainly seen it- nobody's been pitching around Harper for weeks except in obvious situations, it's nothing like it was in May and June.
Re-signing Zimmermann would be a big mistake IMO. His K numbers are dipping (first sign of aging) along with his other numbers this season, he's gonna cost a fortune, and the organization has plenty of internal options to replace him.
Werth's contract isn't a problem. The team has plenty of money left to address needs even after giving him $20ish per for the next two seasons. Remember close to $50 million comes off the books this offseason just from the four free agents. It's only a problem if he continues to deteriorate but they feel obligated to play him full time and hit him in the first half of the order, which hopefully they won't.
Rotation:
Scherzer
Strasburg
Giolito
Ross
Gio/Roark
Lineup:
SS Turner
3B Rendon
RF Harper
1B Zimmerman
2B Escobar
LF Werth paired with lefty free agent to platoon if he struggles
C Ramos/Lobaton or hopefully a free agent or trade upgrade
CF Taylor
I've got no problem taking my chances with that group. Defense should be much better, pitching should be just as good, same with the bats.
People are acting like some sort of big overhaul is needed. This core won 96 games last year and is still probably gonna win around 86 this year. Same thing that happened in 2013 after the 2012 breakout, and the Nats rightly avoided the temptation for dramatic change then. There's nothing wrong with the talent. Of course some guys are in an age-related decline, but others still haven't reached their peak and there's multiple impact prospects in the wings waiting to upgrade at certain spots. I think they'll be about the same next year- if things go right they can win 95+, if they don't the floor is around .500. You take that every year.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
One hit off Joe Ross through 6(a bunt single) and Williams lifts him for a PH.
I'm sure this will end well.
I'm sure this will end well.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Michael Taylor is a marked upgrade over Denard Span in CF. Taylor is statistically the top defensive CF in baseball, has power, and doesn't pull a labia every other week. Nats fans seem to be stuck on Span like he is a meaningful piece while Taylor has largely gone unnoticed as an elite CFer who has power and a skill set Span has never had. Hopefully he's not hurt too bad after the effort tonight, only a couple of CFs would have even gotten close to that ball. Appreciate him...
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Ross is apparently closing in on his innings limit. My guess is that pulling him after 6 buys them two more starts instead of just one.
The Nats believe they have a future star with Taylor. They traded Souza last off season because he was near major league ready and they really did not have room for him. Taylor was thought to be a year away, but was pressed into service because of Span's health issues. The Nats clearly preferred Taylor over Souza.
Span went on to the DL after last night's game. Although not a severe injury to his hip, it is related to the back issues. I suspect this will effectively end his season.
I think the Nats need to seriously look at the team's medical staff. They have had a lot of injuries and a lot of issues with bringing players back when they are not ready and starting rehab assignments and having setbacks. It is easy to say the players are injury prone, but it is a pattern when it keeps hitting the same team year after year.
I think the Nats need to seriously look at the team's medical staff. They have had a lot of injuries and a lot of issues with bringing players back when they are not ready and starting rehab assignments and having setbacks. It is easy to say the players are injury prone, but it is a pattern when it keeps hitting the same team year after year.
