***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

Rumors swirling: Orton to WAS, picks to PHI, Daniels to DEN. Any of y'all here anything?

 

[dgreen]

Rumors swirling: Orton to WAS, picks to PHI, Daniels to DEN. Any of y'all here anything?

Daniels = SamuelsI see some tweets of people asking other people if they've heard anything.

 

[moleculo]

Rumors swirling: Orton to WAS, picks to PHI, Daniels to DEN. Any of y'all here anything?

Daniels = SamuelsI see some tweets of people asking other people if they've heard anything.

Yes, samuels. Damn you autocorrect.

 

[dgreen]

According to redskins.com, remaining UFAs from last year's roster:

Buchanon - Announced he's returning.

Doughty - Wouldn't mind him back as good depth at SS. But, not a big deal if he goes elsewhere.

Golston - No opinion, really. Didn't the Redkins make him an offer?

Grossman - Most likely coming back. Better than anyone we have right now at QB.

Heyer - Please, no.

McIntosh - I'd like to see Riley take over. Would Rocky accept a backup role?

Rogers - No chance he's returning.

C. Wilson - Good pass rush specialist. Like Golston, I don't really have an opinion on whether he should return.

Apparently Tatupu has a visit set up at Redskins Park. I assume he'd immediately be the other ILB starter.Also, CB Kelvin Hayden has a visit scheduled.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Rumors swirling: Orton to WAS, picks to PHI, Daniels to DEN. Any of y'all here anything?

Rich Tandler tweeted this earlier:

I think some just flat made it up. RT @BurgundyBlog: I can't find any legit source for this DEN-WAS-PHI speculation. Who started it?

 

[Sidewinder16]

McIntosh - I'd like to see Riley take over. Would Rocky accept a backup role?

Rich Campbell's notes from today's practice:

ILB Perry Riley has quick feet and can sharply change direction. That helped him on several pass plays during team drills. He ran stride for stride with FB Darrel Young after Young ran straight up the field and broke to the sideline. A couple plays later, he ran up to cover TE Fred Davis, stopped, turned and then ran with him down the field.

Riley also was active in run support during team drills. He finished a positive practice by stripping the ball from TE Chris Cooley on short dump-off. If he keeps it up, it’ll be clear why coaches are willing to give him a crack at the starting ILB job opposite London Fletcher.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Keim's notes from today:

Rookies

1. Chris Neild is strong and it shows when centers or guards try to block him. During one play he got moved a yard back, but was able to anchor and still occupy two blockers (this happened vs. Erik Cook and Maurice Hurt). But his learning curve is noticeable on lateral plays, particularly vs. the Redskins stretch zone. A couple times this morning he tended to lunge at the blocker he thought was coming at him (usually the center). But the center was focused on someone else and this only left Neild off-balance and easy prey for the backside guard. I will say, later in the practice he improved against this look.

2. I’m intrigued by Jarvis Jenkins. Yes, as a second-round pick he should contribute. But I didn’t see him play in college and was unfamiliar with him. But the kid looks like he has a good first step not to mention some power. He used that quickness one time to practically dive inside Trent Williams in an 11-on-11 play, disrupting the play in the backfield. This isn’t happening every time and even in the one-on-one’s he has plays where he gets by and others where he’s stopped. Just makes you want to see more, and in pads.

...

4. Leonard Hankerson made a terrific one-handed grab with his right hand on a pass high and behind him from John Beck. He later dropped a pass over the middle; went right through his outstretched hands. But Hankerson later bobbled a ball along the sideline on a deep out, eventually hauling it in. Couldn’t tell if he was in-bounds. Hankerson plays taller than his 6-foot-2 height because of how well he extends his arms.

Keim has been gushing about Atogwe all week-

3. Am I going on too much in these reports on O.J. Atogwe? Granted, he’s not the best safety in the league, I get that. But he brings value in the secondary, especially in his communication skills. That’s something teammates and coaches talk about – and it’s something that the safeties couldn’t provide last season. After a play in which John Beck completed a deep ball to Jabar Gaffney, Atogwe stopped to talk with Chris Horton about what had happened.

Observations in the trenches-

6. Selvish Capers was better today in the one-on-one drills. He needed to be. Hands were much more consistent.

7. Another impressive Trent Williams play in the OL vs. DL drills (it was a two-on-two; working on stunts). Williams knocked a new linebacker, Eric McBride, to the ground as he moved to the inside and then stayed wide to prevent Joe Joseph from beating him. OK, both players will eventually be cut, but it was still something nobody else on this line could do.

8. Anthony Bryant looks fine at nose; he and Will Montgomery seem to come out about even when they face one another. Both are strong and if one gains leverage it’s over.

 

[Sidewinder16]

A couple tweets from Rich Campbell this morning:

The first string defensive line is consistently beating the top OL group at the line of scrimmage

It's early and the pads aren't out yet, but I've yet to see a Redskins o-lineman stop Jarvis Jenkins & his combo of strength, speed & length

And there goes Trent Williams driving Jenkins into the defensive backfield on a run. Asst OL coach Chris Morgan was ecstatic.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Phillip Buchanon is facing a 4-game league suspension, and Grossman is supposed to be at the Park to sign a contract tonight.

 

[fatness]

I am by no means going to try and sell this unit as one of the league's best. But the assumption that the OL will be as bad or worse than last year simply because the 'Skins didn't replace Steiger and Montgomery with big name Pro Bowlers (read: better "talent")* is myopic, at best. ETA: there is enough combined youth, chemistry and talent for this OL to be respectable to good. Whether it pans out that way is, obviously, yet to be seen.

There is not enough youth, talent, and chemistry for the OL to be respectable to good.They were about 30th in the league last year as far as an offensive line goes. Jamaal Brown hasn't given any indication that he'll return to his old form with his former team, and he's another year older now. Chester was not going to be a starter with the Ravens. Montgomery I have some hope for --- I hope that he continues his progress from last year and finally arrives at "average". Lichtensteiger has no business starting an NFL game. He made the Duds list so often in last years Studs 'n Duds reports that the week he finally didn't do anything awful he was named a stud. Trent Williams is going to be very, very good.If you get a respectable-to-good line out of that I'll be completely surprised. Thinking that way is just preseason optimism.

A couple tweets from Rich Campbell this morning:

The first string defensive line is consistently beating the top OL group at the line of scrimmage

I think we'll be hearing this kind of report on the O-line a lot during games this year.

 

[fatness]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

What I wish I was seeing instead of a QB competition between Beck and Grossman is a QB competition between Jason Campbell and McNabb.

 

[fatness]

Redskins’ popularity wanes as losing continues

Last month the Redskins admitted that demand for tickets was down, and with training camp now open, far fewer fans than usual are showing up to watch practice.

The Associated Press reported that Monday’s practice may have had the lowest attendance ever in the 10 years the team has been training at its facility in Ashburn, Virginia. Tight end Chris Cooley, who’s in his eighth training camp with the team, said the number of fans in camp isn’t even close to what it used to be. “It is probably a fifth of what I’ve seen on a normal day,” Cooley said.

Part of the issue may not be specific to the Redskins: The lockout may have turned off fans, or just made it harder for them to plan ahead for a trip to training camp. But some of it is specific to the Redskins, and particularly owner Dan Snyder. Longtime Redskins fan Justin Caballero told the Associated Press Snyder is the reason fans are turned off.

“I know some who have gotten rid of their tickets,” Caballero said. “The owner — that’s the biggest one I get, they don’t like the owner. And they don’t want to give him no more money.”

 

[fatness]

A running play the Washington Redskins attempted in practice Monday morning was reminiscent of last season - and that can’t be a good thing. As the running back stretched the play toward the left sideline, the right side of the Redskins‘ defensive line surged past the line of scrimmage. Suddenly, left tackle Trent Williams and left guard Kory Lichtensteiger were tangled, tumbling and on the ground.

Breakdowns up front were a major reason Washington’s offense averaged only 18.9 points per game in coach Mike Shanahan’s first season. But rather than drastically overhaul the line, Shanahan has retained four of the five starters that finished last season and acquired only one free agent for the first string.

Without significant personnel changes, then, Washington will rely on continuity and players’ natural progression in the offense to help fix one of the team’s major shortcomings.

Rich Campbell

 

[southeastjerome]

A couple tweets from Rich Campbell this morning:

The first string defensive line is consistently beating the top OL group at the line of scrimmage

I think we'll be hearing this kind of report on the O-line a lot during games this year.

To be fair the oline should be better with Chester and Brown in there. Trent Williams seems to be looking pretty good from what I've read.

 

[southeastjerome]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

 

[Sidewinder16]

A couple tweets from Rich Campbell this morning:

The first string defensive line is consistently beating the top OL group at the line of scrimmage

I think we'll be hearing this kind of report on the O-line a lot during games this year.

To be fair the oline should be better with Chester and Brown in there. Trent Williams seems to be looking pretty good from what I've read.

Also, the defense always starts out "ahead" of the offense in training camp.

 

[Sidewinder16]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

PFF had this tweet after the 'Skins signed Wilson:

QBs throwing at Carlos Rogers last season had a 95.2 rating. Throwing at Josh Wilson they were just 67.8 - DC upgraded ... Josh Wilson allowed 46.9% of passes into his coverage to be complete in 2010, Rogers 69.4% - Repeat. UPgrade

He's younger than Rogers and, in basically only 3 seasons of playing CB, has more career interceptions than Rogers. I don't see how Wilson isn't a positive addition. Buchanon is merely depth who already knows the system.

 

[thayman]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

PFF had this tweet after the 'Skins signed Wilson:

QBs throwing at Carlos Rogers last season had a 95.2 rating. Throwing at Josh Wilson they were just 67.8 - DC upgraded ... Josh Wilson allowed 46.9% of passes into his coverage to be complete in 2010, Rogers 69.4% - Repeat. UPgrade

He's younger than Rogers and, in basically only 3 seasons of playing CB, has more career interceptions than Rogers. I don't see how Wilson isn't a positive addition. Buchanon is merely depth who already knows the system.

The Raven's pass rush was much better than the Redskins pass rush last year. Depending on Buchannon as anything more than a nickel back is pathetic.

 

[scoobygang]

The Raven's pass rush was much better than the Redskins pass rush last year.

Baltimore had 2 fewer sacks for 14 more yards lost than the Redskins. It's certainly possible that they actually had many more hurries (although Football Outsiders data for the first 10 weeks shows only one Raven and one Redskin in the top 15, with Orapko averaging slightly more hurries per game than Suggs), but I suspect that what you're really saying is that the Raven's pass rush's reputation was better than the Redskins' was last year.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Lots of tweets and posted stories from the beat writers today on how sloppy just about everything looks. No OTAs, something like 8 starters on the sidelines until Thursday, everyone just plain sucks, some combination of all that and/or more? The finding out is the best part, IMO. August 12 can't get here soon enough.

One guy continuing to stick way out for how good he looks, though, is Jarvis Jenkins. Dan Graziano even took note.

The defensive line was one of the most impressive-looking things about the Redskins in morning drills, and Jenkins stood out, particularly in his ability to create pressure up the middle against the run and the pass.

 

[thayman]

The Raven's pass rush was much better than the Redskins pass rush last year.

Baltimore had 2 fewer sacks for 14 more yards lost than the Redskins. It's certainly possible that they actually had many more hurries (although Football Outsiders data for the first 10 weeks shows only one Raven and one Redskin in the top 15, with Orapko averaging slightly more hurries per game than Suggs), but I suspect that what you're really saying is that the Raven's pass rush's reputation was better than the Redskins' was last year.

No what I'm saying is you can't take the QB ratings of Rodgers vs Wilson. That's looking at numbers in a vaccuum and isn't a very good indication of their actual skill set. Wilson is a good addition to the team adding depth and I'm happy they signed him. However if Hall is out with an injury our starting CBs would be Wilson and Buchannon. That's awful.

 

[dgreen]

Carlos Rogers to SF.

 

[Dexter Manley]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

PFF had this tweet after the 'Skins signed Wilson:

QBs throwing at Carlos Rogers last season had a 95.2 rating. Throwing at Josh Wilson they were just 67.8 - DC upgraded ... Josh Wilson allowed 46.9% of passes into his coverage to be complete in 2010, Rogers 69.4% - Repeat. UPgrade

He's younger than Rogers and, in basically only 3 seasons of playing CB, has more career interceptions than Rogers. I don't see how Wilson isn't a positive addition. Buchanon is merely depth who already knows the system.

Exactly. Wilson is a significant upgrade over Rogers. And that's without even factoring in that Rogers catches things thrown at him about as well as George Michael did in Arrested Development. I can't believe some guys here are even debating this!And I think people are way overreacting to the whole Buchanon is competing for a starting job thing. It's classic coachspeak. Hell, Belichik made the same type of comment earlier this year about Mallet and the other scrub qb's the Patriots have competing with Brady for the starting qb job.

Also, I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought he was solid as the nickel back last season. He did have to start at least 1 game at cb and didn't implode. And he's dirt cheap, salary wise.

 

[dgreen]

Also, I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought he was solid as the nickel back last season. He did have to start at least 1 game at cb and didn't implode. And he's dirt cheap, salary wise.

I remember reading as the season progressed that he was improving. Similar to Jamal Brown, I think Buchanon struggled early (he was the one who let Andre Johnson go, allowing single coverage with Doughty) and that may have clouded our judgment on him.If they sign Hayden, I think the CBs are in decent shape. No top-level guy, but a solid group.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Kedric Golston is re-signed.

 

[dgreen]

They really need to find a way to use both Cooley and Davis this year:

Chris Cooley watches as Fred Davis gets reps

By Rick Maese

As the first-team offense has hit the field during training camp practices, there’s been one player who has been tough to miss: tight end Fred Davis. For starters, he’s looked pretty good. And last year’s starter, Chris Cooley, has watched a lot of the 11-on-11 drills from the sideline.

So what’s the deal? Well, it depends on who you ask.

“Chris is a little banged up, so they’re giving me an opportunity to get out there a little bit more,” Davis said.

Said quarterback John Beck: “I know Chris is, kind of like, not getting out every single rep. We’re trying to kind of monitor him.”

And here’s offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan: “Cooley’s good. He’s been doing good.”

So let’s go to the source: Chris, are you hurting?

“I actually feel really good,” he said after practice Wednesday. “I feel awesome. It’s just for me, working on things that I need to get better at and building to get ready to play New York.”

Because it’s the first week of practices, there probably isn’t much takeaway here, at least as it concerns Cooley. He’s the starting tight end and still among the most reliable pieces of this offense. As for Davis, the extra reps have helped. Coaches have praised him for the shape he’s in and some of the plays he’s turned in during camp.

It doesn’t mean Davis is about to unseat Cooley, but it might mean the Redskins can turn to more two-tight end sets this year, something they largely abandoned last season in an effort to simplify the offense.

 

[TankRizzo]

They really need to find a way to use both Cooley and Davis this year:

Why is this so damn hard? I don't get it.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Kedric Golston is re-signed.

Reportedly he chose to resign rather than sign with the cowgirls.

 

[thayman]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

PFF had this tweet after the 'Skins signed Wilson:

QBs throwing at Carlos Rogers last season had a 95.2 rating. Throwing at Josh Wilson they were just 67.8 - DC upgraded ... Josh Wilson allowed 46.9% of passes into his coverage to be complete in 2010, Rogers 69.4% - Repeat. UPgrade

He's younger than Rogers and, in basically only 3 seasons of playing CB, has more career interceptions than Rogers. I don't see how Wilson isn't a positive addition. Buchanon is merely depth who already knows the system.

Exactly. Wilson is a significant upgrade over Rogers. And that's without even factoring in that Rogers catches things thrown at him about as well as George Michael did in Arrested Development. I can't believe some guys here are even debating this!And I think people are way overreacting to the whole Buchanon is competing for a starting job thing. It's classic coachspeak. Hell, Belichik made the same type of comment earlier this year about Mallet and the other scrub qb's the Patriots have competing with Brady for the starting qb job.

Also, I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought he was solid as the nickel back last season. He did have to start at least 1 game at cb and didn't implode. And he's dirt cheap, salary wise.

Because Wilson and Rodgers would have been a good 2a/2b at the CB position. I just don't like the lack of depth, considering Rodgers only signed a one year deal with SF I would have liked to see the Redskins bring him back.

 

[southeastjerome]

So Buchanon is signed, and is suspended 4 games, and is supposed to compete with the new guy for the starting corner spot opposite Hall. If Buchanon is competing for a starting spot the secondary is in trouble. Carols Rogers hasn't gotten his big contract offer from any of the 32 teams yet so I'd imagine his contract demands will be dropping. I'd love to see the Skins retain him; he's been their best cover corner.

Really? I think Wilson is an upgrade over Rogers. He played really well last year from what I saw and have read up on him. I thought Rogers was average at best last year. I expect/hope to see more of Barnes. From what I did see of him last year, liked for the most part. Nobody thinks the skins are going to win the super bowl this year. I am all for seeing what the young guys can do rather than keep overpaying free agents.

PFF had this tweet after the 'Skins signed Wilson:

QBs throwing at Carlos Rogers last season had a 95.2 rating. Throwing at Josh Wilson they were just 67.8 - DC upgraded ... Josh Wilson allowed 46.9% of passes into his coverage to be complete in 2010, Rogers 69.4% - Repeat. UPgrade

He's younger than Rogers and, in basically only 3 seasons of playing CB, has more career interceptions than Rogers. I don't see how Wilson isn't a positive addition. Buchanon is merely depth who already knows the system.

Exactly. Wilson is a significant upgrade over Rogers. And that's without even factoring in that Rogers catches things thrown at him about as well as George Michael did in Arrested Development. I can't believe some guys here are even debating this!And I think people are way overreacting to the whole Buchanon is competing for a starting job thing. It's classic coachspeak. Hell, Belichik made the same type of comment earlier this year about Mallet and the other scrub qb's the Patriots have competing with Brady for the starting qb job.

Also, I know I'm in the minority here, but I thought he was solid as the nickel back last season. He did have to start at least 1 game at cb and didn't implode. And he's dirt cheap, salary wise.

Because Wilson and Rodgers would have been a good 2a/2b at the CB position. I just don't like the lack of depth, considering Rodgers only signed a one year deal with SF I would have liked to see the Redskins bring him back.

I agree that it would not have been bad to have him back, but he has already stated that he wanted to move on and did not want to come back.

 

[dehaven123]

For all the pessimism that the current OL is getting, can anyone tell me the last time the 'Skins had 4 returning starters AND none of the starters were more than 30.5 years of age on opening weekend?

1st: Bringing back a group of bad starters shouldn't be a cause for celebration2nd: Did we replace the Center and RG so far?

#1: Define bad? Are these guys each the worst in the league at their respective positions? Guys like Lichtensteiger or Montgomery may not be Pro-Bowlers, but what team has Pro-Bowlers across the line? Chemistry across the line is often more important than individual talent.#2: From 2010? Yes.

I am by no means going to try and sell this unit as one of the league's best. But the assumption that the OL will be as bad or worse than last year simply because the 'Skins didn't replace Steiger and Montgomery with big name Pro Bowlers (read: better "talent")* is myopic, at best. ETA: there is enough combined youth, chemistry and talent for this OL to be respectable to good. Whether it pans out that way is, obviously, yet to be seen.

*and/or, because an assumption is being made that Williams and Brown will regress or otherwise can't improve on last season.

I agree completely. First of all, Chester should be a big improvement over Hicks at RG. This also improves the OL depth, as Hicks will now be coming off the bench and can play G or T.Second, Montgomery should be a significant improvement over Rabach at C. Every time I've paid attention to Montgomery when he's played in the regular or preseason, he's appeared to be solid, and he should be much stronger at the point of attack than Rabach.

Third, I expect Williams to be significantly improved this year. Players usually make a jump from their rookie to second year, and lets not forget that Williams was basically playing hurt all last season. Reportedly he showed up to camp in good shape and is healthy.

Fourth, Brown's play should be improved from last season as the health of his hip has improved and he should be more comfortable at RT in his second year.

So assuming that there won't be any improvement at LG with Lichensteigher starting (which may be a faulty assumption), the Skins should be improved at 4/5 spots on the OL.

Finally, you have to factor in the chemistry that is needed for success of the zone blocking scheme (or any scheme for that matter) will be improved, since this is the second year all of these guys have been together sans Chester.

Now do I think that this will be a top 5 OL this year? No. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the OL to improve at least into an average nfl OL (think middle of the pack in the league).

Agreed. I think this is a more reasonable position on the O line.

 

[Marvelous]

They really need to find a way to use both Cooley and Davis this year:

Why is this so damn hard? I don't get it.

After hearing all of the praises for Fred Davis last year during training camp and seeing how little he played, I think Davis really isn't that good. Maybe he is a better practice player than in actual games.I would love to see Davis emerge as a real play maker. I just don't think it is going to happen.

 

[Marvelous]

For all the pessimism that the current OL is getting, can anyone tell me the last time the 'Skins had 4 returning starters AND none of the starters were more than 30.5 years of age on opening weekend?

1st: Bringing back a group of bad starters shouldn't be a cause for celebration2nd: Did we replace the Center and RG so far?

#1: Define bad? Are these guys each the worst in the league at their respective positions? Guys like Lichtensteiger or Montgomery may not be Pro-Bowlers, but what team has Pro-Bowlers across the line? Chemistry across the line is often more important than individual talent.#2: From 2010? Yes.

I am by no means going to try and sell this unit as one of the league's best. But the assumption that the OL will be as bad or worse than last year simply because the 'Skins didn't replace Steiger and Montgomery with big name Pro Bowlers (read: better "talent")* is myopic, at best. ETA: there is enough combined youth, chemistry and talent for this OL to be respectable to good. Whether it pans out that way is, obviously, yet to be seen.

*and/or, because an assumption is being made that Williams and Brown will regress or otherwise can't improve on last season.

I agree completely. First of all, Chester should be a big improvement over Hicks at RG. This also improves the OL depth, as Hicks will now be coming off the bench and can play G or T.Second, Montgomery should be a significant improvement over Rabach at C. Every time I've paid attention to Montgomery when he's played in the regular or preseason, he's appeared to be solid, and he should be much stronger at the point of attack than Rabach.

Third, I expect Williams to be significantly improved this year. Players usually make a jump from their rookie to second year, and lets not forget that Williams was basically playing hurt all last season. Reportedly he showed up to camp in good shape and is healthy.

Fourth, Brown's play should be improved from last season as the health of his hip has improved and he should be more comfortable at RT in his second year.

So assuming that there won't be any improvement at LG with Lichensteigher starting (which may be a faulty assumption), the Skins should be improved at 4/5 spots on the OL.

Finally, you have to factor in the chemistry that is needed for success of the zone blocking scheme (or any scheme for that matter) will be improved, since this is the second year all of these guys have been together sans Chester.

Now do I think that this will be a top 5 OL this year? No. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the OL to improve at least into an average nfl OL (think middle of the pack in the league).

Agreed. I think this is a more reasonable position on the O line.

I think every Redskin fan would be thrilled if we have an average O-Line this year. Mediocre is looking pretty good compared to where we have been.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Word is that Reed Doughty and Rocky McIntosh are back.

ETA: Lofa Tatupu and Kelvin Hayden were supposed to have visited today. I'd assume if something is going to happen with them we'll hear about it in the AM. FAs are supposed to (finally) be able to start practicing tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Sidewinder16]

WaPo post: Torain injures wrist and could be out up to 2 weeks.

Should be interesting to see how 1st team reps are split between Hightower and the rookies.

 

[Marvelous]

From PFT:

Redskins lack a punter, Sav Rocca needs a work visa

And this:

The only problem? Per Jamison Hensley of the Baltimore Sun, Rabach failed his physical.Rabach reportedly has a lingering shoulder injury.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Skins are currently 18.7 million under the cap per PFT.

 

[dgreen]

Skins are currently 18.7 million under the cap per PFT.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Who's still available? I was getting to the point where I was assuming they were just about done with this year's roster. I was about to make my official 53-man prediction.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Some practice notes from yesterday:

Practice observations and analysis: 8/31 Comment and 4 Reactions|ShareTweet|Email|Print|← return to Redskins WatchRich CampbellPublished on August 3, 2011Breaking down what I saw at Wednesday morning’s practice:Coach Mike Shanahan seemed a bit more hands-on and vocal than usual. After WR Anthony Armstrong made a catch during position drills, Shanahan interrupted them to make a point about getting upfield sharply instead of drifting toward the sideline.“He’s got to be hands on and keep you on your toes,” Armstrong said. “He just had something he wanted us to improve on right there, so he spoke on it. He does it every now and again. He keeps his hands on everything.”Shanahan normally moves all over during position drills and watches different groups, but anything he says usually is quiet enough not to reach the sideline. After he watched the receivers on Wednesday, he got involved in the one-on-one drills between linemen.When seventh-round rookie OLB Markus White beat first-string LT Trent Williams on consecutive snaps by ducking under him around the edge on a speed rush, Shanahan yelled: “Gotta protect the quarterback!” He made Williams get back in against White and was satisfied when Williams drove White into the ground. “That’s what I’m talking about!” Shanahan yelled.“I was specific today because I saw a couple of things that I wanted to point out from last year,” Shanahan said later. “I might do that with a [defensive back] or tight end or running back. You’re looking at drills and you try to make a point when you see it.”***QB John Beck was inconsistent again. That appears to be the norm, and at this point I should just tell you when that starts to wane.First, the positives: He placed some throws out in front of receivers so they could run after the catch, including one in the flat to FB Darrel Young. It wasn’t a difficult throw, but he missed an easy one like that Tuesday. Beck put some nice touch on deep throws to WR Jabar Gaffney and WR Aldrick Robinson. And perhaps most notably, he drilled Gaffney over the middle on a bootleg left, throwing across his body. The throw was perfectly in stride, much better than the two he bounced on similar plays earlier in the week. Beck also hit TE Fred Davis in stride for a touchdown down the middle in situational drills.Now, the negatives: Beck occasionally misfired badly. Either the ball came out of his hand wrong or there was indecision that resulted from miscommunication or some other breakdown. He threw two or three passes that weren’t even close to being a spiral. In fact, Beck’s spirals often aren’t tight. Coaches are attributing that to arm fatigue and aren’t overly concerned, and I’ll buy it for now. Recall that Beck wasn’t spinning the ball well back at players workouts in May, and it turned out he had gotten only a few hours of sleep the night before due to travel. Eventually, his spirals tightened. So let’s see if he can clean it up now that Rex Grossman is here to take some of his reps.***Speaking of inconsistent, WR Niles Paul had the type of up-and-down practice you’d expect from a rookie. He sealed a defender to open a lane for the running back in 11-on-11 drills; blocking is one of his assets coming out of Nebraska’s option offense. He later caught a pass from Beck near the right sideline by breaking back to the ball to beat the defender. It’s the second time I’ve seen him adjust to a ball in the air and make a catch, the first being a deep sideline throw from Beck earlier this week.Paul later dropped a pass over the middle when he let the ball get into his body. That caught receivers coach Keenan McCardell’s attention. I’m eager to see Paul return kicks in preseason games. For someone hoping to make the team near the bottom of the depth chart, his blocking ability helps the running game more than what Brandon Banks can provide, and obviously he’s a bigger receiving target. If Paul can demonstrate the type of playmaking ability in the return game that Banks did last season, he’ll have the advantage.***If this was CB Kevin Barnes’ last practice with the first string, he made it a good one. (Newly-signed free agent Josh Wilson could replace him Thursday.) Barnes intercepted a late throw by QB Marc Verica to the sideline during 7-on-7 drills. He also drew praise from defensive backs coach Bob Slowik for jamming a receiver..Barnes is in his third season after being drafted in the third round, and it’s fair to expect him to be more than a fourth cornerback at this point in his career. Despite some occasional flashes last season, including an interception in the Jacksonville game, he still hasn’t convinced coaches that he’s ready for an expanded role. Defensive coordinator Jim Haslett measured his words carefully when discussing Barnes last week. Coaches want him to get more experience, considering he has played only 13 games over the last two seasons.Barnes can tackle well enough; it’s a matter of recognizing offenses and reading breaks—things that come with experience. He’ll get his chance during the first four games of 2011 because third cornerback Phillip Buchanon is suspended, but then he could face the same predicament as last year when coaches deactivated him in favor of Byron Westbrook because of Westbrook’s prowess on special teams.***Rookie WR Leonard Hankerson was open on a slant during team drills, but John Beck’s throw was beyond his reach because Hankerson slowed up as soon as he got free. Beck led him well but didn’t connect. Chalk it up to Hankerson’s lack of experience. Those mistakes can easily be cleaned up.***Let’s make it a receivers hat trick: Malcolm Kelly worked as the third receiver during situational drills late in practice. Anthony Armstrong and Jabar Gaffney were the top two.Kelly has run well so far, and he appears polished and confident compared to the rookie receivers. That said, this effectively is his first year in the offense because he missed all of last year. He attended meetings all last season, but this is his first extended opportunity to practice running plays. The fact he doesn’t play special teams is a disadvantage in his attempt to make the roster, so standing out in the passing game during the preseason is an absolute must.***I pointed out rookie OL Maurice Hurt’s sluggish feet in this space yesterday, so I must report that he fared much better in one-on-one drills Wednesday. He slid his feet to keep LBs Eric McBride, Edgar Jones and Markus White at bay. They’re not exactly Brian Orakpo, but it’s a start. I still see Hurt ultimately getting his shot as a guard instead of a tackle.***Continuing the early DE Jarvis Jenkins lovefest, he came off the ball low against OL Erik Cook during one-on-one drills and drove him back with ease. Mike Shanahan was watching and complimented Jenkins’ power. Jenkins later said he is focusing on being explosive with his hips. He played a bit today on the left side, and Jim Haslett is going to rotate him at both spots in games, as well.***RB James Davis failed to pick up NT Thomas Weaver after Weaver beat his blocker on a play-action pass. Weaver came up the middle, so it’s hard to see how Davis failed to recognize the breakdown in front of him. Poor pass protection will get Davis cut; it’s what landed him on the bench late last year.***ILB Perry Riley drew cheers from linebackers coach Lou Spanos after filling the proper gap and stopping a running play during team drills. Rocky McIntosh, who Riley is replacing, got caught in the wrong gaps too frequently last season. If Riley masters his responsibilities, it would be an upgrade. That’ll come with experience, but Riley is off to a good start.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2011/aug/3/practice-observations-and-analysis-83/

 

[dehaven123]

For all the pessimism that the current OL is getting, can anyone tell me the last time the 'Skins had 4 returning starters AND none of the starters were more than 30.5 years of age on opening weekend?

1st: Bringing back a group of bad starters shouldn't be a cause for celebration2nd: Did we replace the Center and RG so far?

#1: Define bad? Are these guys each the worst in the league at their respective positions? Guys like Lichtensteiger or Montgomery may not be Pro-Bowlers, but what team has Pro-Bowlers across the line? Chemistry across the line is often more important than individual talent.#2: From 2010? Yes.

I am by no means going to try and sell this unit as one of the league's best. But the assumption that the OL will be as bad or worse than last year simply because the 'Skins didn't replace Steiger and Montgomery with big name Pro Bowlers (read: better "talent")* is myopic, at best. ETA: there is enough combined youth, chemistry and talent for this OL to be respectable to good. Whether it pans out that way is, obviously, yet to be seen.

*and/or, because an assumption is being made that Williams and Brown will regress or otherwise can't improve on last season.

I agree completely. First of all, Chester should be a big improvement over Hicks at RG. This also improves the OL depth, as Hicks will now be coming off the bench and can play G or T.Second, Montgomery should be a significant improvement over Rabach at C. Every time I've paid attention to Montgomery when he's played in the regular or preseason, he's appeared to be solid, and he should be much stronger at the point of attack than Rabach.

Third, I expect Williams to be significantly improved this year. Players usually make a jump from their rookie to second year, and lets not forget that Williams was basically playing hurt all last season. Reportedly he showed up to camp in good shape and is healthy.

Fourth, Brown's play should be improved from last season as the health of his hip has improved and he should be more comfortable at RT in his second year.

So assuming that there won't be any improvement at LG with Lichensteigher starting (which may be a faulty assumption), the Skins should be improved at 4/5 spots on the OL.

Finally, you have to factor in the chemistry that is needed for success of the zone blocking scheme (or any scheme for that matter) will be improved, since this is the second year all of these guys have been together sans Chester.

Now do I think that this will be a top 5 OL this year? No. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the OL to improve at least into an average nfl OL (think middle of the pack in the league).

Agreed. I think this is a more reasonable position on the O line.

I think every Redskin fan would be thrilled if we have an average O-Line this year. Mediocre is looking pretty good compared to where we have been.

Mediocre sounds great!

 

[dehaven123]

Skins are currently 18.7 million under the cap per PFT.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Who's still available? I was getting to the point where I was assuming they were just about done with this year's roster. I was about to make my official 53-man prediction.

Save it for when they are a player or two away in a couple yrs. and need a high dollar FA. They dont have to spend all the cap until 2013, I think.

 

[Marvelous]

Skins are currently 18.7 million under the cap per PFT.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Who's still available? I was getting to the point where I was assuming they were just about done with this year's roster. I was about to make my official 53-man prediction.

Don't forget that the current front office may not feel compelled to spend every last penny of the salary cap. My guess is that Shanahan will continue to bring people in like he did last offseason with only a few getting contract offers. But the offseason is so compressed this year, he may not have the time to bring in so many people. But they are probably done with the big free agent signings.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Skins are currently 18.7 million under the cap per PFT.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Who's still available? I was getting to the point where I was assuming they were just about done with this year's roster. I was about to make my official 53-man prediction.

Don't forget that the current front office may not feel compelled to spend every last penny of the salary cap. My guess is that Shanahan will continue to bring people in like he did last offseason with only a few getting contract offers. But the offseason is so compressed this year, he may not have the time to bring in so many people. But they are probably done with the big free agent signings.

They can also extend their own. I believe Landry is in the last year of his contract. I imagine a chunk of that is earmarked for him at some point before the end of the league year.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Now, according to PFT, the Redskins are only $11,450,000 under the cap.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Signed FAs practicing for the first time. From tweets, Hightower, Moss, Brown, Chester, Cofield, Bowen, Wilson, Doughty, Rob Jackson and McIntosh on the field with the first teams.

ETA: Hightower and Jackson in due to injuries (Torain and Kerrigan, respectively).

ETA2: Grossman running is the first QB to see 1st team snaps.

 

[fatness]

You can't make this stuff up.

Former AFL player Rocca is stranded in Australia unable to play for the Redskins in the NFL this year because the US Government is yet to grant him a work visa.

The Redskins play their first pre-season game next week and, despite not having a punter, Shanahan made light of the dilemma, telling reporters he suggested to Rocca he marry an American in order to get a green card. "He's got a job here in the US," Shanahan told reporters. "Eventually they'll let him go or, at least, I'm hoping they let him go. If not, I told him to get married to an American and that'll make it easier."

Rocca's wife, Rose, is likely not too keen on Shanahan's suggestion.

 

[fatness]

No what I'm saying is you can't take the QB ratings of Rodgers vs Wilson. That's looking at numbers in a vaccuum and isn't a very good indication of their actual skill set. Wilson is a good addition to the team adding depth and I'm happy they signed him. However if Hall is out with an injury our starting CBs would be Wilson and Buchannon. That's awful.

I agree with you. And I do think Wilson is not as good as Rogers. I realize that makes me a distinct minority since Redskin fans tend to hate on players who've been traded or cut. But I'd feel much better with Buchanon as our 4th CB (or 5th if Barnes can beat him out) and Hall, Rogers, and Wilson as the 3 main guys.The big potential problem in the secondary, though is: when will Laron Landry be able to play, and for how long, coming off his Achilles injury? If Doughty has to start for Landry the secondary will look like last year.

 

[fatness]

WaPo post: Torain injures wrist and could be out up to 2 weeks.

Here we go again. I really enjoy watching Torain play, but the guy is always hurt. Hightower has a history of fummbling too much to be an every-down back. That leaves the rookies, if Torain goes down.Grossman and Hightower together as starters scares the hell out of me. What's the record for most turnovers from a QB/RB combo in a season?

 

[Sidewinder16]

Torain out 7-10 days. Got screws in a broken finger.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Shanahan confirmed that Lofa Tatupu and Kelvin Hayden were brought in for physicals. No signings yet.