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***Officialish Detroit Tigers Thread*** (2 Viewers)

I think Frustrating is the word to describe this team. It is so capable of winning a World Series, but they can't do the little things to win. Too many defensive mistakes. Too many strange moves by the manager. I really think this team lacks the heart to win. Too many are going through the motions, particularly bad are Infante and Peralta. But really, nobody is going balls out defensively. Leyland's style is too laid back for this bunch. There needs to be some serious ###-kicking done to wake this team up before the year becomes a completely disappointing waste.

 
'jon_mx said:
I think Frustrating is the word to describe this team. It is so capable of winning a World Series, but they can't do the little things to win. Too many defensive mistakes. Too many strange moves by the manager. I really think this team lacks the heart to win. Too many are going through the motions, particularly bad are Infante and Peralta. But really, nobody is going balls out defensively. Leyland's style is too laid back for this bunch. There needs to be some serious ###-kicking done to wake this team up before the year becomes a completely disappointing waste.
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It's pretty simple to me: I just don't think this team is good enough to win. The bottom 5 can't hit, the defense is brutal, the baserunning is brutal, and the lineup decisions and handling of the bullpen are a joke. Cabrera has actually been decent at 3rd, far better than most thought. Everyone knew about the lack of range, but he seems to make most of the plays that he should. They really need a shortstop with range. Peralta is not going to cut it, especially hitting less than .250 and he has looked terrible of late. But we are probably stuck with him next year. The defense at 2nd is horrible. I thought Infante would play a lot better defensively but he has made some costly errors. The corner outfielders have been brutal. We might get by with Dirks and a RH hitter platooning at one spot, but we badly need a corner outfielder that can drive in runs. Boesch needs to go. Avila/Laird is solid enough. The pitching is good enough. Leyland absolutely has to go. His decisions are mind-boggling and I no longer think his message is getting through to the players. It's not just that the team isn't winning more, it's the big picture and I think it's just time for a new voice.
 
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I have watched many games this season and Cabrera actually has done better than I expected at third. Plus his bat more than makes up for any problems in the field.

Peralta for some reason just annoys me, just seems too lax at times and plays without any fire or emotion and his range is limited for a SS. Infante has been a huge disappointment. I really thought he would spark the team at the plate and in the field, he has done neither. Probably has cost a at least two games in the field. Pince is Prince..a solid power hitter who is a weak in the field. Prince does not look like a 210 million dollar player. So right there the infield has no players that can take runs away from other teams...or turn tough DPs when needed.

The only positive thing is that last week at this time the Tigers were 3 games back and now they are 1 game back. Without knowing how it happened I thihk most fans would have taken that.

 
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'jon_mx said:
There needs to be some serious ###-kicking done to wake this team up before the year becomes a completely disappointing waste.
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And Leyland's reaction, as I read it, was that things aren't so bad ...they made up a game, so golly, it's OK. Screw that - he needs to be lighting fires for not taking over the division this weekend.
 
As a Twins fan I can only dream of being one game out with ten to go. While I know Tiger fans will not agree, I think the Tigers would of been better off leaving Miggy at first, and passing on Fielder. Then traded or signed a FA 3rd baseman and maybe a fast infielder to give them some speed on the bases and improve the defense. The Tigers have some of the best pitching in the A.L. and with a little defense, and speed on the bases could take it to the next level. Of course if the Tigers get hot over the next 10 games and win the division, Jimmy's job will be safe and joy will reign in Tigerland.

Good luck Tigers and the divison is yours for the taking

peace

 
'Gopher State said:
As a Twins fan I can only dream of being one game out with ten to go. While I know Tiger fans will not agree, I think the Tigers would of been better off leaving Miggy at first, and passing on Fielder. Then traded or signed a FA 3rd baseman and maybe a fast infielder to give them some speed on the bases and improve the defense. The Tigers have some of the best pitching in the A.L. and with a little defense, and speed on the bases could take it to the next level. Of course if the Tigers get hot over the next 10 games and win the division, Jimmy's job will be safe and joy will reign in Tigerland.Good luck Tigers and the divison is yours for the takingpeace
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Fielder is a beast and is far from the worst fielder at 1B advanced metrics or not. They can't turn a double play and drop fly balls, the problems go way deeper than at the infield corners. In a perfect world Fielder would DH, but it's not a perfect world.
 
When asked Monday what similarities he sees between the two pennant races — 2011 with the Cardinals and 2012 with the Tigers — Dotel mentioned one similarity.

But one difference, as well.

"That team believed in itself," he said. "This team believes in itself. The belief is there."

And the difference?

"One thing that I loved about my team last year," he said, "was that everybody was very, very pumped. Everyone was very excited, even when we were down.

"Everybody believed — and the dream came true."

When asked if he sees the same attitude on the Tigers, Dotel — being the honest player he's always been — said, "We do believe. But I don't know how to say this to you.

"We believe we have the players and talent, but I think we should be more pumped up. I haven't seen that yet.

"Maybe I'm wrong. But it's what I see. Like I said, we believe, but I need to see one more little thing. I hope I see that in the next 10 days. There's time."
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From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120924/SPORTS0104/209240437#ixzz27R4y2WMt :mellow:

 
'Doctor Detroit said:
When asked Monday what similarities he sees between the two pennant races — 2011 with the Cardinals and 2012 with the Tigers — Dotel mentioned one similarity.

But one difference, as well.

"That team believed in itself," he said. "This team believes in itself. The belief is there."

And the difference?

"One thing that I loved about my team last year," he said, "was that everybody was very, very pumped. Everyone was very excited, even when we were down.

"Everybody believed — and the dream came true."

When asked if he sees the same attitude on the Tigers, Dotel — being the honest player he's always been — said, "We do believe. But I don't know how to say this to you.

"We believe we have the players and talent, but I think we should be more pumped up. I haven't seen that yet.

"Maybe I'm wrong. But it's what I see. Like I said, we believe, but I need to see one more little thing. I hope I see that in the next 10 days. There's time."
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From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120924/SPORTS0104/209240437#ixzz27R4y2WMt :mellow:
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I thought that has been pretty obvious. This team is just way too laid back. BTW....nice job by Verlander getting out of that mess with two strike outs! That is one of the few players on the team who has the appropriate intensity.

 
Benoit pitched 2 innings yesterday and Verlander is pitching well with a decent pitch count and has a 4 run lead.

Having Benoit warming up is ridiculous. We might need him in the next couple of games.

 
'Anthony Borbely said:
Benoit pitched 2 innings yesterday and Verlander is pitching well with a decent pitch count and has a 4 run lead. Having Benoit warming up is ridiculous. We might need him in the next couple of games.
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We need a three run HR so we don't see Valverde. Agreed Benoit warming up is ridiculous.
 
BTW, I give Dotel a lot of props for saying what he did. It is exactly what needed to be said. It should have been said by one of the veteran every day players and a bit more forceful and a few weeks ago. But :thumbup:

 
Lot's of pressure on Sanchez tomorrow, not sure he's ever pitched under these circumstances.

The Tigers nemesis Bruce Chen opposes...

 
'Doctor Detroit said:
'jon_mx said:
Big hit by Jackson! :thumbup:
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His baserunning hasn't been too stellar though, twice thrown out on the base paths trying to advance. Like I've been saying all year, they just don't play the game right.
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It seems like we've had a lot of our baserunners thrown out while advancing ...and a lot of opponents advancing on "defensive indifference." Dotel's right.Less than a minute after the Tigers win, Cleveland gets a 2-run HR to take a 3-1 lead ..now 3-2 (friggin' Dunn!). Hold on, Cleveland!Last ten games for the top three pitchers for Detroit and Chicago:Our pitchers' ERA: 2.72 (Max, 2.21, Fister, 2.69, JV, 3.21)Sox pitchers' ERA: 4.34 (Peavy, 3.99, Sale, 4.04, Quintana, 5.07)
 
'jon_mx said:
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'jon_mx said:
'Leroy Hoard said:
Let's stay positive here guys. There's a good chance neither Sanchez or Valverde are here next year.
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Can we really get excited and add Infante, Coke, and Young to the list? :popcorn:
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IIRC infante has another year on his deal.gotta move Jhonny along if possible too.
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I am a for moving Jhomny if there is a suitable replacement. A good short stop is hard to find.
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IF VMart is back I wuld expect Young to be gone too. Coke should be expendable too, there has to be a better leftie out there somewhere.
 
Before we get too excited about getting rid of the trash, there is still about a 50 percent chance we lose fewer games than the Sox. Any team that loses only half their games should be good.

 
Indians win. Good chance for the Tigers to sleepwalk through the game tonight because there really isn't any reason for urgency. :mellow:

 
If we are putting a wish list together for next year here is the one guy I really want:

Nick Swisher

Put him in RF and bat him sixth, relax and enjoy the season.

 
The Tigers third chance to go into a tie with the Sox. Sanchez may or may not care about the team, but perhaps he can at least pitch well for that big fat contract he hopes to sign soon.

 
'jon_mx said:
The Tigers third chance to go into a tie with the Sox. Sanchez may or may not care about the team, but perhaps he can at least pitch well for that big fat contract he hopes to sign soon.
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A great start through 4. Low pitch count for Sanchez; high count and 2 runs allowed for Chen. We'll get to their BP early.On paper, this line-up really looks good - averages and OBP.
 
Jon mx is having a come to Jesus moment with Dirty Sanchez, the trade was worth it just for what he did tonight. That was incredible in this situation.

 
'Doctor Detroit said:
Jon mx is having a come to Jesus moment with Dirty Sanchez, the trade was worth it just for what he did tonight. That was incredible in this situation.
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Probably about the second time where the trade clearly paid dividends. If they do squeak into the playoffs, it will have been worth it. Really expected more out of both players though.
 
'jon_mx said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
Jon mx is having a come to Jesus moment with Dirty Sanchez, the trade was worth it just for what he did tonight. That was incredible in this situation.
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Probably about the second time where the trade clearly paid dividends. If they do squeak into the playoffs, it will have been worth it. Really expected more out of both players though.
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Second time?
Code: 
Date 	Opponent 	Score 	Dec 	IP 	H 	R 	ER 	HR 	BB 	K  Sep 25  KC             W 2-0   W       9       3       0       0       0       1       10	 	  Sep 20 OAK     	L 4-12 	L 	5.2 	6 	6 	5 	1 	2 	8 	 Sep 15 @ CLE   	W 5-3 	W 	6.2 	3 	2 	2 	0 	0 	7 	   Sep 9 	@ LAA   	L 2-3 	L 	7.0 	7 	3 	3 	2 	0 	6 	  	 Sep 3 	CLE 	        L 2-3 	- 	6.0 	8 	2 	0 	0 	1 	2 	  	  		  Aug 29 @ KAN   	L 0-1 	L 	7.0 	7 	1 	1 	0 	0 	1 	 Aug 22 TOR     	W 3-2 	W 	6.2 	5 	2 	1 	0 	2 	6
Also keep in mind that Oakland game was the game AJAX, Infante and Garcia made gaffs that should have been ruled errors. Probably should have only been charged two earned runs there.Sanchez is also a terrific fielder, maybe we should try him at SS.
 
'jon_mx said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
Jon mx is having a come to Jesus moment with Dirty Sanchez, the trade was worth it just for what he did tonight. That was incredible in this situation.
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Probably about the second time where the trade clearly paid dividends. If they do squeak into the playoffs, it will have been worth it. Really expected more out of both players though.
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3 of his first 4 were rough, but since then he has had 6 of 7 quality starts.Both players have done about what I expected they would, Infante is 261/289/372 since the break - career line is 275/316/396. He's an average infielder, just a guy material. Expecting more was expecting too much, if we miss the playoffs it is not because of them.
 
Infante an average infielder?? Hasn't shown an ability to turn the double play and has muffed some really easy ground balls. His bat was an upgrade over Santiago, but his defense has been sad.

 
As far as Sanchez, he probably gave us 2 or 3 more quality starts than we would have out of Smyly. No way could Smyly pulled off a complete game shutout.

 
ANYway ...tied for first again! Sox pitching is not sharp, they rely too much on the long ball, and they have a pretty tough series with Tampa coming up. I think if we win 5 of 8 we'll be in the playoffs.

Delmon, when they walk two just to pitch to you, you need to come through and punish them. I'd still like to see Laird (avg.) or Avila (OBP) in the five slot instead of Delmon.

 
'jon_mx said:
Infante an average infielder?? Hasn't shown an ability to turn the double play and has muffed some really easy ground balls. His bat was an upgrade over Santiago, but his defense has been sad.
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This is exactly the player I remember from before and have seen when I've watched him since he left, if you expected more your expectations were too high.
 
'jon_mx said:
As far as Sanchez, he probably gave us 2 or 3 more quality starts than we would have out of Smyly. No way could Smyly pulled off a complete game shutout.
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Oof, seriously, you're just looking for a reason to talk negatively about him because you didn't think we needed to trade for him in the first place. I wasn't a huge fan of the trade (more the Brantly part than the Turner part), but Sanchez, like Infante, has done just about exactly what should have been expected from him. His stuff is miles better than Smyly's and unlike the kids he knows how to pitch in the majors, just needed a few starts to get the hang of the AL.
 
'tri-man 47 said:
I think if we win 5 of 8 we'll be in the playoffs.
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I really think this team needs to finish on a tear and then carry it into the playoffs, just getting enough to get in seems like a recipe for a quick exit. Like, hey, we made it, look at us, then get complacent and wiped out quickly. Need to piggy back these last 2 games into something the next week, more dominating performances - not just enough to get in.
 
With Sanchez pitching like he has been the past seven starts, I think this pitching staff is better than any in my lifetime. You throw those four out there in a series with Porcello and Smyly as situational guys, Dotel, Villarreal and Benoit in the 7th and 8th and you have a shot to beat anyone. I just don't have the faith, they play like #######s too much for me to get excited.

 
'Doctor Detroit said:
With Sanchez pitching like he has been the past seven starts, I think this pitching staff is better than any in my lifetime. You throw those four out there in a series with Porcello and Smyly as situational guys, Dotel, Villarreal and Benoit in the 7th and 8th and you have a shot to beat anyone. I just don't have the faith, they play like #######s too much for me to get excited.
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Yea but what happens in the 9th?
 
Thoughts from last nights game. First of all Sanchez had wicked stuff last night and was in complete control. Best slider he had had since coming here.

Cabrera made a great run saving catch on that line drive. If you watched it in slo-mo it really was a great play.

Tigers still did not get the big hits needed to blow that game open. They should have had at least 5-6 runs. I was stunned when Chen struck out Miggy and Prince back to back with the bases loaded. Infante swinging at the first pitch and hitting a weak popup hurt as well. Delmon is Delmon..has been coming through as of late but always seems to be in the hole at the plate. 0-1..0-2..1-2.. just never really gets ahead in the count.

The best part on the night was Valverde not coming in..it would have ruined a nice night.

 
'whoknew said:
'Doctor Detroit said:
With Sanchez pitching like he has been the past seven starts, I think this pitching staff is better than any in my lifetime. You throw those four out there in a series with Porcello and Smyly as situational guys, Dotel, Villarreal and Benoit in the 7th and 8th and you have a shot to beat anyone. I just don't have the faith, they play like #######s too much for me to get excited.
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Yea but what happens in the 9th?
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I shut off the tv and say my nightly prayer.
 
Per today's Tribune, the Sox are in near-panic mode. Instead of an extra day rest, they're moving Sale up to his normal slot, which sets him up for a possible one-off game if needed.

 
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