scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Enjoy rooting again for whoever the Tigers are playing next year.
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***Officialish Detroit Tigers Thread*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Interesting tidbits on MLB Trade Rumors:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Pretty sure he just rewrote what I posted in here last night.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
And he didn't have to write while drunk either.Pretty sure he just rewrote what I posted in here last night.
igbomb
Footballguy
Off-season needs:
RF - Garcia is not ready. I think folks that think this kid is ready to step in as a full-time RF are crazy. He's a 21 year old with poor plate discipline. That's not a starting corner outfielder on a team with World Series hopes. Go find a Torii Hunter or some other guy for two years that can play decent defense and get on base.
SP - Either re-sign Sanchez or go find another 4/5. I think they are beyond set at 1-3, but I don't feel great with Porcello/Smyly as the back two.
RP - Fill some holes with Valverde leaving. But don't get crazy with some high-priced closer. Not worth the spend. Maybe add a lefty and put Smyly back in a rotation (either on the big club or Toledo).
Depth - I can't believe that our bench bats are Berry/Garcia/Worth/Kelly in the World Series. Not one of those guys inspires any confidence. Nevermind that Berry was batting in the freaking two-hole.
RF - Garcia is not ready. I think folks that think this kid is ready to step in as a full-time RF are crazy. He's a 21 year old with poor plate discipline. That's not a starting corner outfielder on a team with World Series hopes. Go find a Torii Hunter or some other guy for two years that can play decent defense and get on base.
SP - Either re-sign Sanchez or go find another 4/5. I think they are beyond set at 1-3, but I don't feel great with Porcello/Smyly as the back two.
RP - Fill some holes with Valverde leaving. But don't get crazy with some high-priced closer. Not worth the spend. Maybe add a lefty and put Smyly back in a rotation (either on the big club or Toledo).
Depth - I can't believe that our bench bats are Berry/Garcia/Worth/Kelly in the World Series. Not one of those guys inspires any confidence. Nevermind that Berry was batting in the freaking two-hole.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Neither one was hitting but Berry had a speed/defense advantage.edit: more than one person suggests getting a FA corner outfielder and perhaps platooning Dirks/Garcia in the other corner.
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scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Wonder how much FA Victorino would cost? 
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Tigers need a whole new bullpen.
A corner OF, I would like to see a new SS.
defense is terrible and can the team learn some plate discipline? seems like all the teams we played knew how to work the count and the tigers would just hack n hack n hack
A corner OF, I would like to see a new SS.
defense is terrible and can the team learn some plate discipline? seems like all the teams we played knew how to work the count and the tigers would just hack n hack n hack
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Valverde gave up 9 ER and 11 hits in 2.67 innings.The rest of the bullpen gave up 5 ERs in 30 innings with a opponents average of .178. They were terrific.
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whoknew
Footballguy
2013 Plans
1) OF - I agree the Tigers need a corner outfielder. Ideally, this would be covered by:
2) Starting Pitching - It would be great if they could re-sign Sanchez. That would allow them to trade Porcello for a corner OF. Smyly is a perfectly fine 5th starter.
3) Delmon Young - Gone. He stinks plus Victor will be the DH.
4) Short stop - If you are going to play Cabrera at 3rd, I think they need to go out and get a super defensive SS. I don't even care if he can't hit - hell Peralta didn't hit this year.
5) Bullpen - Valverde will be gone. They should sign a couple of everyday relievers and give someone a shot to win the closer job - including Coke, AlAl, etc. I'm not a fan of signing a "proven closer." Just sign a bunch of cheap relievers and make one of them the closer.
If they do those things, they will be set up well for 2013.
1) OF - I agree the Tigers need a corner outfielder. Ideally, this would be covered by:
2) Starting Pitching - It would be great if they could re-sign Sanchez. That would allow them to trade Porcello for a corner OF. Smyly is a perfectly fine 5th starter.
3) Delmon Young - Gone. He stinks plus Victor will be the DH.
4) Short stop - If you are going to play Cabrera at 3rd, I think they need to go out and get a super defensive SS. I don't even care if he can't hit - hell Peralta didn't hit this year.
5) Bullpen - Valverde will be gone. They should sign a couple of everyday relievers and give someone a shot to win the closer job - including Coke, AlAl, etc. I'm not a fan of signing a "proven closer." Just sign a bunch of cheap relievers and make one of them the closer.
If they do those things, they will be set up well for 2013.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I don't agree with the last one. If you have 5 closers, you don't have any.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Light up a cool menthol because Jimmy's coming back. That means Gene and Lloyd probably will be too. Yippy! 
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Speculation is McClendon will be moved to 3B coach with Lamont doing just the bench coach duties. Harrah will be the hitting coach.Light up a cool menthol because Jimmy's coming back. That means Gene and Lloyd probably will be too. Yippy!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Sounds like a way to keep Jimmy's betting buddies close while making the fans a little less pissed off. No more world's fattest windmill @ 3rd?Speculation is McClendon will be moved to 3B coach with Lamont doing just the bench coach duties. Harrah will be the hitting coach.Light up a cool menthol because Jimmy's coming back. That means Gene and Lloyd probably will be too. Yippy!
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Do we agree that the Tigers have to find a gritty #2 hitter or is Dirks that guy? There in no way Berry can return in any capcity other than the last guy on the roster who pinch runs here and there. Why do I feel that Berry wil be next years Ryan Raburn?
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Eephus
Footballguy
Not much grit is necessary to bat in front of Cabrera and Fielder. A guy with an OBP better than .330 would be nice though. Berry's combination of average OBP and no power isn't ideal for the role. He doesn't have many GIDPs but his 25% strikeout rate has something to do with that.Dirks' numbers this year against lefties weren't terrible. How does he look against them?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Dirks is fine. He or Boesch will be the extra OFer and you can play either as the hot hand but I think both are 7 hole type guys. Dirks has a short swing which helps vs LHP as he can stay in there longer, and it also cuts down on Ks over time. Boesch we still don't know, he has a much higher ceiling than Dirks but he is tragically streaky going great for weeks then slumping for months (I still think he should have been on the playoff roster though). Some think Boesch will be cut lose though, but I think that is a little hasty. He still has minor league options and he'll cost about $1.2 million next year. I think the corner OFer they hopefully get in FA should hit 2nd, and they should kind of tailor their search for just such a player. If Nick Swisher doesn't need a big contract I really like him as that guy. He is a walk machine and he has the power to make it uncomfortable for pitchers looking at Miggy, Fielder and VMART behind him. Our #2 hitter will see more great pitches than probably any other single player in baseball next year, it needs to be someone who can excel in that role.Quinton Berry is at best a depth system guy. I like him as a Toledo guy who gets a call for a DL stint to fill in and provide a spark. If the Tigers are depending on him to do anything more than that, they have failed. I don't get the fan love for this turd, he's a borderline bench player at best.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I has 2 seats for last night game. I would have loved to see how that would have turned out given the wind conditions from Sandy. I was walking my dog around 9pm and it had to be 30mph frosty gusts. No rain but the wind was bone chilling! It would have been just brutal conditions to play in.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
freep
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
You've mentioned Swisher before but I cannot root for him, and his defense is bad. I would much rather take on an older Torii Hunter. Just say no to Swish.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
any word on omar? did he break his hand?
Would love torii hunter here, is he a FA
Would love torii hunter here, is he a FA
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
So the bullpen just needs one more arm since it is mostly set:
Dotel
Benoit
Coker
Schlereth
Al Al
Villarreal
You also have Rondon on the farm as an option if they wanted to go to camp hoping one of those young guys could close with Benoit or Coker bridging the gap.
ESPN speculates Soriano is in play. He has a player option with the Yankees but could opt out if he is gonna get a big payday. JJ Putz, Joakim Soria, Broxton are possibilities. Soriano is gonna cost a ton and IMO you have three possible future closers in the system now (I think Rondon or Villarreal are going to be better options than Al Al).
I personally like Villarreal long-term because he has great stuff, and he has control. I think starting him at Toledo closing next year will give him a taste of what it is about and to see if he can handle it. Rondon had a 1.53 ERA and averaged 11.2 k/9 at three levels in 2012, he's certainly a guy worth watching going into spring training. This might be the arm Whoknew is looking for to take over.
Dotel
Benoit
Coker
Schlereth
Al Al
Villarreal
You also have Rondon on the farm as an option if they wanted to go to camp hoping one of those young guys could close with Benoit or Coker bridging the gap.
ESPN speculates Soriano is in play. He has a player option with the Yankees but could opt out if he is gonna get a big payday. JJ Putz, Joakim Soria, Broxton are possibilities. Soriano is gonna cost a ton and IMO you have three possible future closers in the system now (I think Rondon or Villarreal are going to be better options than Al Al).
I personally like Villarreal long-term because he has great stuff, and he has control. I think starting him at Toledo closing next year will give him a taste of what it is about and to see if he can handle it. Rondon had a 1.53 ERA and averaged 11.2 k/9 at three levels in 2012, he's certainly a guy worth watching going into spring training. This might be the arm Whoknew is looking for to take over.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Broke his finger.Hunter doesn't walk enough for my tastes and he's gonna cost too much for his age but it's not my money.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
no one walks on this team anyway unless its a free pass.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
I couldn't stomach Swisher. Thought he was a little troll with long hair in Oakland, couldn't stand him in Chicago because he was in Chicago, and couldn't stand him in NY. Yeah, I know, he's just havin fun out there. His defense in the playoffs deserved some yackety sax music backing it up. And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he one of the least liked players in MLB from a player poll?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
VMART walks and Fielder's walks will go up next year with VMART behind him. You put another guy in there that draws walks, and you end up with more RBI opportunities down the line. Hunter would be good in RF option but I wouldn't want to sign him more than two years. Bobby Abreu, LADAlfredo Amezaga, CHCRick Ankiel, WASMichael Bourn, ATLMarlon Byrd, BOSMelky Cabrera, SFJohnny Damon, CLE Matt Diaz, ATLKosuke Fukudome, NYYJonny Gomes, OAKScott Hairston, NYMJosh Hamilton, TEXTorii Hunter, LAARaul Ibanez, NYYReed Johnson, ATLAndruw Jones, NYYRyan Ludwick, CIN *Hideki Matsui, TBXavier Nady, SF Angel Pagan, SFJuan Pierre, PHIJuan Rivera, LAD *Cody Ross, BOS Luke Scott, TB *Grady Sizemore, CLERyan Spilborghs, TEXIchiro Suzuki, NYYNick Swisher, NYYB.J. Upton, TBShane Victorino, LADReggie Willits, LAADelmon Young, DETLots of crap on that list. Bourn, Hamilton, Cabrera and Victorino are going to cost a mint. Ichiro wants to stay in NY and a lot of the other guys are just crap. This is why I like Swisher so much. I don't think he'll get anything more than a three year deal, his value dropped after the playoffs, he is a super clubhouse guy and he walks. He's 31, from Columbus Ohio and he is pretty good in RF. I think he presents the best value. Not sure what Melky will want or get, but he could be an option as well if he doesn't get the big contract. Either him or Swisher on a three year deal would work for me, I think Victorino and Bourn are going to get huge deals over six plus years. Hamilton is a mystery, but I don't think you want his issues.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Whoa, Melkman, no thanks.
I wonder about Cody Ross too.
I wonder about Cody Ross too.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Swisher was reported to have wanted a Werth type of contract. 6-7 years 120. There is no way he hell he gets a deal like that. I think that Swishers bat would fit nice but can we afford another DH type playing in the field? And at what price?
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igbomb
Footballguy
I want Hunter for two years. Good defense, high OBP. Perfect fit for the team and can sit right in that 2-spot. Meanwhile, put Dirks in left and groom Castellanos/Garcia. The dirty little secret that people seem to miss on this team is that while the defense overall is putrid, it's not the infield defense. Advanced defensive metrics may have big error bands for an individual player in a season, but they are actually quite good at measuring a total infield or outfield. And the Tigers infield was just a bit below average. The entire infield UZR for the season was -5.5 runs, with nearly four of those runs attributed to anyone at 2B not named Infante. So the current incarnation of infield defense is almost exactly average.But the outfield defense was flat out horrendous. Jackson is real good, but Dirks is below average and the third guy out there was miserable all year. Boesch/Berry/Delmon/Kelly are all below average fielders. The outfield UZR was -22.6, with Austin as the only guy rating out as even average.Meanwhile, Torii Hunter, while not really suited for CF anymore, is a more than capable right fielder with a strong arm who still sports a hell of a bat. No-brainer.
MAC_32
Footballguy
From a cost/benefit/fit perspective I like Pagan the most. We don't need more pop, we need a guy that can get on base and wreak havoc while on them and as DD said - bat 2nd.
A Jacks
Pagan
Miggy
Prince
V Mart
Dirks/Garcia
Peralta
Avila/Laird
Infante
Berry and Kelly on the bench.
I like the pen as is, just add a lefty. Don't spend $ on a closer, spend it on Anibal. Let Benoit take the job out of camp and start grooming Villareal to take his spot - eventually. I'd be happy to send Schlereth on his way too, Smyly would be a good long relief guy to toss in there.
In this scenario Boesch is on the outside looking in, I'm fine with that, make him dominate Spring Training and force his way onto the roster sending Berry back to Toledo.
A Jacks
Pagan
Miggy
Prince
V Mart
Dirks/Garcia
Peralta
Avila/Laird
Infante
Berry and Kelly on the bench.
I like the pen as is, just add a lefty. Don't spend $ on a closer, spend it on Anibal. Let Benoit take the job out of camp and start grooming Villareal to take his spot - eventually. I'd be happy to send Schlereth on his way too, Smyly would be a good long relief guy to toss in there.
In this scenario Boesch is on the outside looking in, I'm fine with that, make him dominate Spring Training and force his way onto the roster sending Berry back to Toledo.
Eephus
Footballguy
Swisher is 31 so this is his best chance to cash in. I don't see him settling for a 3 year deal unless a team pays a short deal premium or the market completely dries up. He's been a consistent 4 win player and is still a plus defender if you believe advanced stats over the small sample in the playoffs.Melky is the most intriguing free agent of the winter. I can see him signing a shorter deal but at near market rates. I don't see PED offenders becoming the next market inefficiency.
igbomb
Footballguy
I can live with Pagan. He has a spotty career record but he has speed and looks to have a good glove for RF. The OBP and BB% could use some improvement.Not sure what his market will be. He could be looking for a longer deal than the Tigers should give.And I agree on the bullpen. No need to spend money there. But I can't agree on that bench. Berry and Kelly would be garbage off the bench. They are nothing more than defensive replacements or pinch-runners, and both suck at D while only Berry can run.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Pagan will be way too expensive and will stay in SF.I'm glad to hear Swisher will be asking way too much....I just don't want him on a team I like.I would like to get Hunter.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I would just rather spend $ and shore up Anibal and a Pagan type then go bare bones with the last 2 bench spots. Ideally, Castellanos pushes Kelly out during the season. I like Berry on the bench for pinch running purposes, not someone I'm married to but if you're telling me we can upgrade this spot at the expense of Pagan or Anibal I think that's a bad idea. If Illitch says f it do both then great.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I can see Pagan wanting to stay in San Fran, but whole heartidly disagree on his cost. He'll be much cheaper than Swisher and a better fit for this team. OBP near 330, wheels, good defense, good clubhouse guy - supposedly. That's what we need, not another slugger.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
think he will be the same without the juice?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yeah the milky juicer and headcase Josh don't attract me as much as Hunter, Pagan & Swisher do.
I've heard speculation that Pagan could be worth about 4/$50m on the open market. With that cavernous outfield he could hit doubles and triples all day long. Jackson and Pagan would be great table setters for the middle of the lineup. But $12m per year is a pretty steep cost.'MAC_32 said:
MAC_32
Footballguy
We just paid Jay Honey $6m, I'm comfortable saying Pagan is twice as good as him.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Funny that you hate Melky and love Pagan, they are essentially identical players. Pagan has a little more speed, Melky a little more power. Both are candidates to throw up a sub 700 OPS season, something Hunter and Swisher won't do. Of those four I think I prefer Hunter the least but Melky and Pagan are really the same guy. take out their best statistical seasons and they are about identical. Melky is also three years younger.'MAC_32 said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Yeah, you're wrong. Swisher is one of the nicest guys in the game involved in charities and specifically involved in veterans causes. Swisher is also an above average OFer, one play does not make a player. He wasn't great in CF but if he was moved to LF he'd probably be good out there. That said he won't get a Werth deal but he will likely be out of the Tigers price range especially since they have to dedicate money to extending Scherzer and/or resigning Sanchez. Hunter in fact may be the guy that is the best fit because he'll get a short-term deal, plays fantastic defense and he is perfect to hit 6th in this line-up. I prefer a couple of others to him but at the end of the day Hunter is a proven commodity that works for a veteran team.Also Tigers need to keep Castellanos at 3B, he's not ready now anyway and by the time he is VMART will be gone. Move the others accordingly. Garcia/Dirks in a full time platoon sounds pretty good as well and I agree Boesch is on the outside looking in but he's still worth a roster spot over Kelly and Berry.'scrumptrulescent said:
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