okay okay...is there anyone else in the world besides me who believes (1 Viewer)

[semaj33]

Jun 19 Jim Flynn, of PewterReport.com, reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Maurice Stovall is apparently challenging WR Michael Clayton for the starting Z position.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

what in the world happened to this man?

Is it poor qb play, a bad offense, his nagging injuries, or something else that keeps him from bouncing back to his 04 form? It can't be the absense of Brian Griese, can it? lol

...Last Clayton Dynasty Owner In The World...

 

[Alluro]

I think it's safe to say at this point michael clayton just had a fluke rookie year and he's not sneaking up on defenses anymore. I'm predicting the same thing to happen to Colston this season.

 

[Captain Hook]

In short...................NO

 

[spec1alk]

No.

I disagree with the above post about Colston though. I feel pretty strongly that Colston will have another strong season.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I just traded away Michael Clayton and Sammie Morris

for Brad Smith and Dwayne Wright in one of my dynasty leagues.

... and I didn't lose a wink of sleep over it.

 

[prymetyme25]

Jun 19 Jim Flynn, of PewterReport.com, reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Maurice Stovall is apparently challenging WR Michael Clayton for the starting Z position. ------------------------------------------------------------------------what in the world happened to this man? Is it poor qb play, a bad offense, his nagging injuries, or something else that keeps him from bouncing back to his 04 form? It can't be the absense of Brian Griese, can it? lol

...Last Clayton Dynasty Owner In The World...

I thought I was the last Michael Clayton owner. I think that you and I may be the only ones who still believe in him.

 

[shadyridr]

I think it's safe to say at this point michael clayton just had a fluke rookie year and he's not sneaking up on defenses anymore. I'm predicting the same thing to happen to Colston this season.

Agree with you on Clayton, not Colston

 

[Dirk Digler]

I live in Tampa and havent missed a game in a decade.

CLayton sucks. His route running is suspect, he gets ZERO seperation because he's not fast and can't accelerate out of his cuts. His hand's and or concentration suck because he has a DB draped all over him by the time the ball gets there... etc, etc..

He is a good blocker though.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I live in Tampa and havent missed a game in a decade.CLayton sucks. His route running is suspect, he gets ZERO seperation because he's not fast and can't accelerate out of his cuts. His hand's and or concentration suck because he has a DB draped all over him by the time the ball gets there... etc, etc..He is a good blocker though.

Based on the last couple of years, I'd tend to agree with you.But how do you explain the rookie year? With no separation, bad hands, etc., how on Earth did he manage to do what he did?If you can't separate or catch, how do you end up with 80 catches for 1200 yards on only 122 targets. Can a receiver get lucky 80 times in one season?I'm not really even disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering "out loud" how that season was possible.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I live in Tampa and havent missed a game in a decade.CLayton sucks. His route running is suspect, he gets ZERO seperation because he's not fast and can't accelerate out of his cuts. His hand's and or concentration suck because he has a DB draped all over him by the time the ball gets there... etc, etc..He is a good blocker though.

Based on the last couple of years, I'd tend to agree with you.But how do you explain the rookie year? With no separation, bad hands, etc., how on Earth did he manage to do what he did?If you can't separate or catch, how do you end up with 80 catches for 1200 yards on only 122 targets. Can a receiver get lucky 80 times in one season?I'm not really even disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering "out loud" how that season was possible.

I think he has been slowed by injuries since his stellar rookie season.As Dirk says, he can't gain separation any longer,imo this is largely due to the injuries suffered since his rookie season.

 

[shadyridr]

I live in Tampa and havent missed a game in a decade.CLayton sucks. His route running is suspect, he gets ZERO seperation because he's not fast and can't accelerate out of his cuts. His hand's and or concentration suck because he has a DB draped all over him by the time the ball gets there... etc, etc..He is a good blocker though.

Based on the last couple of years, I'd tend to agree with you.But how do you explain the rookie year? With no separation, bad hands, etc., how on Earth did he manage to do what he did?If you can't separate or catch, how do you end up with 80 catches for 1200 yards on only 122 targets. Can a receiver get lucky 80 times in one season?I'm not really even disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering "out loud" how that season was possible.

Im assuming he worked harder and got lazy since his rookie year thinking everything will come easy. Just a guess.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

OK, there were two legit potential explanations there.

If injuries are the primary factor, the question becomes, "Is he healthy now?". He and the team will tell you, "absolutely". If that's true, does he go back to being what he once was?

If laziness was the primary factor, the question is just, "Is he still lazy after two years of sucking?". Has he been laid low enough to actually work hard again?

I'd have an easier time believing either one of (or a combination of) those explanations than the "he just sucks" explanation, because it is very hard to come to come to grips with his rookie season being produced by someone who just plain sucks.

 

[greenf7cat]

and I thought I was the last Clayton owner out there... i am not keeping him for next year, thats for sure. was his route running and lack of separation suspect his rookie year? how did he have such a big year? what has happened since his rookie year?

 

[Holy Schneikes]

By the way, I'd guess there are a LOT of original dynasty owners hanging on to this guy. After his rookie season, he certainly wasn't the kind of guy people were looking to get rid of. Then after each of his next two seasons, his stock was in the crapper which made him tough to trade too.

Now he's still hanging around, taking up a roster spot. But who wants to drop or trade away for nothing a guy who: is still very young, has ANCIENT competition for the #1 spot on his team, and put up a 1200 yard season a couple of years ago?

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

I think it's safe to say at this point michael clayton just had a fluke rookie year and he's not sneaking up on defenses anymore. I'm predicting the same thing to happen to Colston this season.

Clayton lost his ability to burn defenses when he lost a step and was unable to create separation and control a DB.Unless Colston shrinks about 4 inches and 30 lbs. I don't see his main strengths being negated in the same way.

 

[Tick]

I felt pretty cool when I traded Cooley for Clayton... dang.

 

[spec1alk]

In some ways Mike Clayton reminds me of Nate Burleson.

Any insight as to why Burleson also took such a huge slump after playing so well in Randy Moss' absence?

In an initial dynasty league draft in Feb 2005, Mike Clayton went 4.01 and Burleson went 4.08. Fairly close and both had fantastic 2004 seasons. Burleson put up 68 catches for 1006 yds and 9 TDs with 14 catches of 20+ yds and a 14.8 avg.

If anyone cares, I took Burleson and still have him.

 

[offdee]

I just traded away Michael Clayton and Sammie Morrisfor Brad Smith and Dwayne Wright in one of my dynasty leagues.... and I didn't lose a wink of sleep over it.

I'm the one who made this trade with Ron for Michael Clayton. I don't have a ton of faith in Clayton, but thought he was worth the gamble here to see what happens. This will be his make or break year in my opinion.....if he is truly recovered from all injuries he should get back to form with Garcia at the helm, and if he has another sucky year than I think it's safe to say he was a one year wonder.I'm with Schneikies in asking the question of how someone can look so great his Rookie season and then just tail off like he did the past couple years....makes me believe it wasn't his talent, but other forces (QB play and injury).Again, not high hopes, but for what I paid I think he's worth the risk.

 

[BLOX]

After his season two years ago I figured it was time to move him, and I did.

However, I don't think he's done. I really hope he gets back to where he was his rookie year as that will make a huge fantasy impact based on his ADP. But I wouldn't bet that he'll ever produce again like he did two years ago. I just hope he didn't lose his talent as he could have been one of the best.

 

[sholditch]

Any insight as to why Burleson also took such a huge slump after playing so well in Randy Moss' absence?

I think there's an expression about the sun and a dog's ###.

 

[Afro Samurai]

Clayton is one of my sleeper picks this year, if only because I'd like to see what he can do with a real quarterback.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Garcia isn't so great at throwing long bombs. Clayton could be servicable this year.

I also can't understand how someone can look so great in their rookie year then simply vanish. Though this isn't the first flash in the pan the NFL has ever known...

 

[bcr8f]

Can he do something in the NFL? Sure.

He can sit on the bench.

 

[offdee]

Though this isn't the first flash in the pan the NFL has ever known...

But a flash in the pan Rookie year though?That's what has me stumped....usually it's a flash in the pan year after year 3,4,6 once they got aclimated to NFL speeds, etc. Has there ever been another Rookie WR that looked so impressive and then just fell off the face of the earth like Clayton has?

 

[AnonymousBob]

Though this isn't the first flash in the pan the NFL has ever known...

But a flash in the pan Rookie year though?That's what has me stumped....usually it's a flash in the pan year after year 3,4,6 once they got aclimated to NFL speeds, etc. Has there ever been another Rookie WR that looked so impressive and then just fell off the face of the earth like Clayton has?

That sounds like an obscure stat only Yudkin can answer.I don't believe any rookie wr had the same number of yards/catches/td's, however I'm sure there have been others that did quite well, only to vanish in the following seasons.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I just traded away Michael Clayton and Sammie Morrisfor Brad Smith and Dwayne Wright in one of my dynasty leagues.... and I didn't lose a wink of sleep over it.

I'm the one who made this trade with Ron for Michael Clayton. I don't have a ton of faith in Clayton, but thought he was worth the gamble here to see what happens. This will be his make or break year in my opinion.....if he is truly recovered from all injuries he should get back to form with Garcia at the helm, and if he has another sucky year than I think it's safe to say he was a one year wonder.I'm with Schneikies in asking the question of how someone can look so great his Rookie season and then just tail off like he did the past couple years....makes me believe it wasn't his talent, but other forces (QB play and injury).Again, not high hopes, but for what I paid I think he's worth the risk.

He maybe worth the risk, but I'm liking the stashableprospects I got in return. I think Brad Smith and Dwayne Wrighthave some nice upside.

 

[CalBear]

Though this isn't the first flash in the pan the NFL has ever known...

But a flash in the pan Rookie year though?That's what has me stumped....usually it's a flash in the pan year after year 3,4,6 once they got aclimated to NFL speeds, etc. Has there ever been another Rookie WR that looked so impressive and then just fell off the face of the earth like Clayton has?

That sounds like an obscure stat only Yudkin can answer.I don't believe any rookie wr had the same number of yards/catches/td's, however I'm sure there have been others that did quite well, only to vanish in the following seasons.

One example would be Terry Glenn:

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1996 nwe |  15 |	 5	 42	8.4	0 |	90   1132  12.6	6 || 1997 nwe |   9 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	27	431  16.0	2 || 1998 nwe |  10 |	 2	 -1   -0.5	0 |	50	792  15.8	3 |

He went on to have a few more big seasons.Billy Brooks had 1000 yards as a rookie in 1986, his only 1000-yard season.

 

[Gopher State]

I think it's safe to say at this point michael clayton just had a fluke rookie year and he's not sneaking up on defenses anymore. I'm predicting the same thing to happen to Colston this season.

I tend to agree about Colston, teams will be ready for him this year.

 

[squistion]

In some ways Mike Clayton reminds me of Nate Burleson.Any insight as to why Burleson also took such a huge slump after playing so well in Randy Moss' absence?In an initial dynasty league draft in Feb 2005, Mike Clayton went 4.01 and Burleson went 4.08. Fairly close and both had fantastic 2004 seasons. Burleson put up 68 catches for 1006 yds and 9 TDs with 14 catches of 20+ yds and a 14.8 avg.If anyone cares, I took Burleson and still have him.

I took both Clayton and Burleson and still have both of them The common explanation is that Burleson was a product of the Vikes system (like Culpepper) although on some level I have never been able to completely buy that.I think another explanation is that Burleson is not a quick study and takes longer than most to learn the nuances of a particular offense. If that is the case then he could show marked improvement this year with the Seahawks and be a productive #3 for them - although this is probably wishful thinking on my part.

 

[CalBear]

I think it's safe to say at this point michael clayton just had a fluke rookie year and he's not sneaking up on defenses anymore. I'm predicting the same thing to happen to Colston this season.

I tend to agree about Colston, teams will be ready for him this year.

They'd better be ready for Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush, too. Clayton played on an offense ranked #23 and #31 in the past two years. He also lost his QB, who was replaced by Chris Simms, Tim Rattay, and Bruce Gradkowski (combined, 5.61 yards per attempt). Galloway's stats declined precipitously as well. There really is no comparison with the 2007 New Orleans Saints, who return basically their entire offense except for Joe Horn's 37 catches. Colston may not duplicate 2006, but barring injury his 2007 will be way better than Clayton's 2005/2006, if only because he's playing on an offense that is likely to rank in the top 10 instead of the bottom 10.Galloway will be 36 this year. That's the age that both Tim Brown and Rod Smith went into tailspins. Tampa Bay will pass more this year, and I think it's reasonable to expect that Clayton's numbers will come back up. Who else is going to catch the ball, Ike Hilliard?

 

[cobalt_27]

Clayton is one of my sleeper picks this year, if only because I'd like to see what he can do with a real quarterback.

And, that would be...?

 

[Patoons]

Though this isn't the first flash in the pan the NFL has ever known...

But a flash in the pan Rookie year though?That's what has me stumped....usually it's a flash in the pan year after year 3,4,6 once they got aclimated to NFL speeds, etc. Has there ever been another Rookie WR that looked so impressive and then just fell off the face of the earth like Clayton has?

That sounds like an obscure stat only Yudkin can answer.I don't believe any rookie wr had the same number of yards/catches/td's, however I'm sure there have been others that did quite well, only to vanish in the following seasons.

One example would be Terry Glenn:

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1996 nwe |  15 |	 5	 42	8.4	0 |	90   1132  12.6	6 || 1997 nwe |   9 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	27	431  16.0	2 || 1998 nwe |  10 |	 2	 -1   -0.5	0 |	50	792  15.8	3 |

He went on to have a few more big seasons.Billy Brooks had 1000 yards as a rookie in 1986, his only 1000-yard season.

Glenn only had one down year... Clayton's had two.

 

[CalBear]

One example would be Terry Glenn:

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1996 nwe |  15 |	 5	 42	8.4	0 |	90   1132  12.6	6 || 1997 nwe |   9 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	27	431  16.0	2 || 1998 nwe |  10 |	 2	 -1   -0.5	0 |	50	792  15.8	3 |

He went on to have a few more big seasons.Billy Brooks had 1000 yards as a rookie in 1986, his only 1000-yard season.

Glenn only had one down year... Clayton's had two.

50/792/3 doesn't count as a down year from 90/1132/6?

 

[SSOG]

In some ways Mike Clayton reminds me of Nate Burleson.Any insight as to why Burleson also took such a huge slump after playing so well in Randy Moss' absence?In an initial dynasty league draft in Feb 2005, Mike Clayton went 4.01 and Burleson went 4.08. Fairly close and both had fantastic 2004 seasons. Burleson put up 68 catches for 1006 yds and 9 TDs with 14 catches of 20+ yds and a 14.8 avg.If anyone cares, I took Burleson and still have him.

Daunte Culpepper was a stud and made Burleson, plain and simple.I just drafted Clayton in an initial dynasty draft, and I'm really excited about it. I think he's dramatically underrated. How many 25 year old WRs with a 1,000 yard season can you get as the 60th WR off the board, other than the aforementioned Burleson (who was once called the worst WR to ever gain 1,000 yards receiving)? He's young, he's a starter, he's playing in a pass-first offense, and the only WR currently ahead of him on the depth chart is a WR who is entirely dependent on his speed... who is approaching 36 years old (an age where speed has a history of abandoning a player suddenly). He's *DRAMATICALLY* underrated in Dynasty leagues. Like, ridiculously underrated. Even if there's only a CHANCE that injury is the reason for his two bad seasons recently, that's the sort of guy who I'd LOVE to jump on as my WR4 or WR5, not the sort of guy who should be drafted between Mike Walker and Arnaz Battle.

 

[greeklightnin]

In some ways Mike Clayton reminds me of Nate Burleson.Any insight as to why Burleson also took such a huge slump after playing so well in Randy Moss' absence?In an initial dynasty league draft in Feb 2005, Mike Clayton went 4.01 and Burleson went 4.08. Fairly close and both had fantastic 2004 seasons. Burleson put up 68 catches for 1006 yds and 9 TDs with 14 catches of 20+ yds and a 14.8 avg.If anyone cares, I took Burleson and still have him.

Daunte Culpepper was a stud and made Burleson, plain and simple.I just drafted Clayton in an initial dynasty draft, and I'm really excited about it. I think he's dramatically underrated. How many 25 year old WRs with a 1,000 yard season can you get as the 60th WR off the board, other than the aforementioned Burleson (who was once called the worst WR to ever gain 1,000 yards receiving)? He's young, he's a starter, he's playing in a pass-first offense, and the only WR currently ahead of him on the depth chart is a WR who is entirely dependent on his speed... who is approaching 36 years old (an age where speed has a history of abandoning a player suddenly). He's *DRAMATICALLY* underrated in Dynasty leagues. Like, ridiculously underrated. Even if there's only a CHANCE that injury is the reason for his two bad seasons recently, that's the sort of guy who I'd LOVE to jump on as my WR4 or WR5, not the sort of guy who should be drafted between Mike Walker and Arnaz Battle.

In the last team report, Stovall was outshining Clayton. Would anybody be surprised if Galloway and Stovall where the starters week 1. I think Gruden knows what he has in Clayton (not much) and might be ready to move on.

 

[lions327]

One example would be Terry Glenn:

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1996 nwe | 15 | 5 42 8.4 0 | 90 1132 12.6 6 || 1997 nwe | 9 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 27 431 16.0 2 || 1998 nwe | 10 | 2 -1 -0.5 0 | 50 792 15.8 3 |He went on to have a few more big seasons.Billy Brooks had 1000 yards as a rookie in 1986, his only 1000-yard season.

Glenn only had one down year... Clayton's had two.

50/792/3 doesn't count as a down year from 90/1132/6?

Not when he did it in only 10 games.

 

[Patoons]

One example would be Terry Glenn:

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1996 nwe | 15 | 5 42 8.4 0 | 90 1132 12.6 6 || 1997 nwe | 9 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 27 431 16.0 2 || 1998 nwe | 10 | 2 -1 -0.5 0 | 50 792 15.8 3 |He went on to have a few more big seasons.Billy Brooks had 1000 yards as a rookie in 1986, his only 1000-yard season.

Glenn only had one down year... Clayton's had two.

50/792/3 doesn't count as a down year from 90/1132/6?

Not when he did it in only 10 games.

 

[mlball77]

I own him in one dynasty league and am hesitant to get my hopes up. He does seem like a decent buy low player currently. With a new, and marginally better qb in town, maybe Clayton can step up. But the big thing with him, as mentioned repeatedly in this thread, is his health. Clayton needs to stay healthy to have any FF value.

 

[mightyeskimo]

I live in Tampa and havent missed a game in a decade.CLayton sucks. His route running is suspect, he gets ZERO seperation because he's not fast and can't accelerate out of his cuts. His hand's and or concentration suck because he has a DB draped all over him by the time the ball gets there... etc, etc..He is a good blocker though.

If that's true then how do you explain his rookie year?

 

[Ken Tuckyfriedchicken]

Eddie Kennison is the closest I could find to Michael Clayton, but he changed clubs in his 4th year.

1996 stl | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 54 924 17.1 9 |

| 1997 stl | 14 | 3 13 4.3 0 | 25 404 16.2 0 |

| 1998 stl | 16 | 2 9 4.5 0 | 17 234 13.8 1 |

| 1999 nor | 16 | 3 20 6.7 0 | 61 835 13.7 4 |

| 2000 chi | 16 | 3 72 24.0 0 | 55 549 10.0 2 |

| 2001 den | 8 | 3 9 3.0 0 | 15 169 11.3 1 |

| 2001 kan | 5 | 2 13 6.5 0 | 16 322 20.1 0 |

| 2002 kan | 16 | 7 58 8.3 0 | 53 906 17.1 2 |

| 2003 kan | 16 | 2 9 4.5 0 | 56 853 15.2 5 |

| 2004 kan | 14 | 2 15 7.5 0 | 62 1086 17.5 8 |

| 2005 kan | 16 | 7 43 6.1 0 | 68 1102 16.2 5 |

| 2006 kan | 16 | 4 16 4.0 0 | 53 860 16.2 5 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

 

[Afro Samurai]

I tend to agree about Colston, teams will be ready for him this year.

Reasoning?Do you think nobody bothered to prepare for him last year? I guess all these coaches were ignoring the Saints #1 wideout to watch film of.........who? Devery Henderson? Terrance Copper? Or did all these teams go out and draft 6'5" corners and I just happened to miss it?If you want to say Colston's going to have a down year based on a hunch, that's fine. But it's pretty ridiculous to think the only reason he was successful is because nobody was "ready" for him last year.

 

[shadyridr]

I tend to agree about Colston, teams will be ready for him this year.

Reasoning?Do you think nobody bothered to prepare for him last year? I guess all these coaches were ignoring the Saints #1 wideout to watch film of.........who? Devery Henderson? Terrance Copper? Or did all these teams go out and draft 6'5" corners and I just happened to miss it?If you want to say Colston's going to have a down year based on a hunch, that's fine. But it's pretty ridiculous to think the only reason he was successful is because nobody was "ready" for him last year.

Seriously. Then wouldnt a bunch of 7th round picks become studs in their rookie years?

 

[Foosball God]

By the way, I'd guess there are a LOT of original dynasty owners hanging on to this guy. After his rookie season, he certainly wasn't the kind of guy people were looking to get rid of. Then after each of his next two seasons, his stock was in the crapper which made him tough to trade too.Now he's still hanging around, taking up a roster spot. But who wants to drop or trade away for nothing a guy who: is still very young, has ANCIENT competition for the #1 spot on his team, and put up a 1200 yard season a couple of years ago?

I've got him on a dynasty roster and just haven't been able to convince myself to cut him. If he sucks again this year then he'll probably go to the scrap heap.