OP/ED: Democrats Lost Overall Gun Control Debate By Enabling Criminals & Lawlessness (4/20/22 23:55 PST) (1 Viewer)

[GordonGekko]

Direct Headline: Americans bought guns in record numbers in 2020 during a year of unrest -- and the surge is continuing

Ken Baye, owner of Stoddard's Range and Guns in Atlanta, said he's seeing a different kind of customer these days: new shooters. "We see a lot of women come in, a lot of couples, people with children," he said. "We're really seeing pretty much every walk of life."

By Martin Savidge and Maria Cartaya, CNN  1:35 PM ET, Sun March 14, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/us/us-gun-sales-record/index.html

Direct Headline: 1st-Time Gun Buyers Help Push Record U.S. Gun Sales Amid String Of Mass Shootings

These buyers are white, Black, Asian and Latino and come from all political beliefs. And they're being driven by uncertainty, fear and a need to feel safe. Gun sellers across the country said the pandemic and civil unrest over the past year have pushed customers to feel they must take control of their families' protection.

Jaclyn Diaz April 26, 20215:06 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/989699122/1st-time-gun-buyers-help-push-record-u-s-gun-sales-amid-string-of-mass-shootings

Direct Headline: An Arms Race in America: Gun Buying Spiked During the Pandemic. It’s Still Up.

Preliminary research data show that about a fifth of all Americans who bought guns last year were first-time gun owners. Sales usually spike around elections, but the sheer volume is notable. And the data, which has not been previously released, showed that new owners were less likely than usual to be male and white. Half were women, a fifth were Black and a fifth were Hispanic.

By Sabrina Tavernise  May 30, 2021

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/29/us/gun-purchases-ownership-pandemic.html

VIDEO: More women become first-time gun owners for protection Oct 28, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejVDxB76ZRU

VIDEO: Black female gun ownership skyrockets Oct 11, 2021

Gun and ammo sales skyrocketed across the US during the pandemic. In the first six months of 2021 some 3.2 million people purchased a firearm for the first time. 87 percent of shop owners reported an increase in firearms purchased by African American women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFQWdpuXaXI

VIDEO: San Gabriel Valley Gun Sales Soar Among Asian Americans Amid Growing Fears Of Coronavirus CBS Los Angeles  Mar 10, 2020

Gun sales are skyrocketing across the San Gabriel Valley as Asian Americans in the area fear they may be targeted because of their ethnicity amid rising fears about the spread of the coronavirus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8qJupxxfas

*********

Total US population is roughly in the range of 340 million. Estimates are that there are over 400 million firearms in America right now. 40 million were sold combined in 2020 and 2021 alone. That means 1 out of every 10 guns in the entire country sold to civilians was done in the last two years.  A large contingent of first time gun owners are women buying handguns at a record pace, with many being African American. Within this group, the common theme appears to be the desire to protect their children in wake of the pandemic and the lawlessness enabled all around them.

Previous "stigma" about being a gun owner in America has now been thrown out the window. Parents are quite bi-partisan about their children's safety. They don't care about political ideology when rioters, looters, thieves, felons, career criminals, rapists, and psychopaths with Molotov cocktails are shown running around creating chaos, death and destroying innocent people's lives and there is a clear association with cooked idiotic public policy behind it.

Consider:

- Defund The Police

- Several Years Of Unchecked Identity Politics Based Widespread Rioting And Looting

- Public Policy By The Radical Left Turning Big Blue Cities Into Havens For Chaos, Violence and Lawlessness

- Cooked Bail Reform/Bailing Out Career Criminals

- Elected Officials On Record Egging On The Unrest

This isn't some unpredictable outcome here. If the current Democratic Party and Biden Administration sends out a bright neon sign to American citizens saying widespread law and order has been effectively abandoned and that no help is coming for tax paying law abiding parents and that their children are going to be left out as prey, then those people will find a means to defend themselves and their families. American citizens aren't just going to roll over and watch their children die.

You can't be a government that abandons civil order and then tells people they can't have guns to defend themselves after you've deserted them.

The current Democratic Party can't keep pushing for more gun control under these conditions. The long standing gun control debate is over. Joe Biden, his administration and the radical left can keep screaming about taking away more guns and making more gun laws, but the masses have shown they are still going to keep buying them in record numbers anyway.

Think about how much of a failure a single political administration has to become to upturn the entire long standing gun control divide in less than three years time.

I'll leave this here for others to discuss.

 

[GordonGekko]

CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL:

VIDEO: Store Owners Arm Themselves Amid Ongoing Protests Over Death Of George Floyd | NBC Nightly News Jun 2, 2020

Defending property has turned deadly in places like Philadelphia, where police say a gun store owner shot and killed an armed looter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SObC_5diU0

VIDEO: Guns vs looters | How store owners are defending themselves amidst riots Jun 3, 2020

Rising violence and vandalism across the US have forced businesses' owners to arm themselves against looters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7gdZDYH2gM

VIDEO: Police chief breaks down after fire crews blocked from burning Richmond home with child inside May 31, 2020

Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney announced Richmond will be under curfew following violent protests that have gripped downtown Richmond for the last two nights.

https://youtu.be/AEncQKV8k_0?t=206

Direct Headline: Gun sales have skyrocketed in California

Californians are on a gun-buying spree. In 2020, 1.26 million guns were purchased in the state, a 56% increase from the previous year, and the most since at least 2000. Sales data through May show gun purchases in California remain well above pre-pandemic levels. Research suggests this increased circulation of firearms could foreshadow more gun violence.

Abhinanda Bhattacharyya June 22, 2021 1:19 p.m

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Over-a-million-guns-were-sold-in-California-last-16247714.php

https://www.safehome.org/data/firearms-guns-statistics/

VIDEO: Gun sales surge in Asian communities amid coronavirus outbreak I ABC7 Mar 12, 2020

Gun sales at some Southern California stores are surging in response to fears about the coronavirus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om-Ym3qCVz0

VIDEO: Gun sales up, more first-time buyers, many women Jun 5, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4yI1iqjj-c

VIDEO: Are these America's least likely gun owners? - BBC News Mar 27, 2019

The number of hate crimes against minority groups has risen over the past three years, leading some to take up weapons for their own protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmRJdkiauA

 

[GordonGekko]

Direct Headline: Why gun control is so hard to enact

“Do something!” It is a desperate mantra being repeated across the country. Do something, anything, to end our continual cycle of boom and bust. Mass shootings are followed by scenes of sorrowful politicians, which are then followed by minimal actions. Worse yet, politicians routinely propose reforms they know will not pass constitutional review, creating the appearance of “doing something” when, in reality, they do little beyond giving cover.

This latest bloodshed has politicians once again pledging action. Many of these politicians opposed the decision of the Supreme Court in 2008 in District of Columbia versus **** Anthony Heller, establishing that the right to bear arms is an individual right under the Second Amendment. The court has repeatedly reaffirmed that landmark decision. In 2010, the court ruled that this constitutional right applied to the states as it does to the federal government since it is one of those “fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty.” Just two years ago, the Supreme Court reversed a lower court decision and held that this right is not confined to firearms “in existence at the time of the founding” but to “all instruments that constitute bearable arms” including, in that specific case, stun guns.

Despite these and other rulings by the federal courts, politicians still act as if they are still operating before Heller in which any rational gun control is presumptively constitutional. The legal results are predictable. ...For example, many politicians are pledging again to remove all “assault style weapons” such as the AR-15. However, such limits must meet a standard that requires a narrowly tailored law advancing a compelling state interest. While a ban on AR-15s sounds compelling, it breaks down under closer review....A law cannot ban the look of a rifle. It must focus on the inherent power of the weapon, which may prove less compelling for some justices. Such a ban would have to pass muster with Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, the newest members of the Supreme Court. Both justices are viewed as supporting gun rights under Heller, and Kavanaugh wrote a dissent in a 2011 case saying that an assault weapons ban would be unconstitutional.

The road ahead may therefore prove more difficult for gun control. A federal judge in San Diego shot down the California law banning high capacity ammunition magazines with more than 10 rounds. While the ruling could now be reversed by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, the decision repeatedly hit on what the court felt was an arbitrary ban given the common use of such magazines. The court noted that the Glock pistol “is designed for, and typically sold with, a 17 round magazine,” as is true of a wide assortment of other such popular weapons. Moreover, banning high capacity magazines will not likely have a transformative effect. It is relatively easy and fast to swap out magazines on a weapon. This and other such cases are currently working their way to the Supreme Court.....

The Supreme Court is already poised to rule in a critical gun rights case, a decision that will come a decade after its last major decision in the area, with New York State Rifle and Pistol Association versus City of New York. This will once again test the mettle of the Second Amendment right and could result in a substantial blow to an array of laws passed across the country in the wake of Heller. Gun control advocates have adopted a strategy long used by pro-life advocates. Rather than seeking a direct challenge to the right to bear arms, they advocate laws limiting the right on the edges, chipping away at the scope of the Second Amendment.....The New York case is an example of this “death by a thousand paper cuts” approach. Not to be outdone by the already restrictive gun laws in the state legislature, the New York City Council passed a law that not only required most owners to keep their guns unloaded and locked away at home but curtailed their ability to take their guns outside of their homes. It banned gun owners from transporting guns except to one of the seven city shooting ranges, preventing owners from taking their guns outside of city limits, even to second homes. The law is simple harassment, but two lower courts upheld it. It is scheduled to go before the Supreme Court....

An appeal from gun manufacturer Remington is also pending before the Supreme Court. The company seeks to overturn a decision that supports the right of families of victims in the Sandy Hook massacre to sue gun manufacturers. However, Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2015, giving gun manufacturers immunity from most lawsuits. I opposed this law as unnecessary and unwise. Courts had already ruled against product liability and nuisance challenges to gun manufacturers without giving the industry immunity, yet Congress still passed the law under pressure from the National Rifle Association....

The latest suggestion is the red flag law to allow the police to remove weapons from individuals who are viewed as unstable or dangerous. These laws could prove more successful. But the challenge to some of these “red flags” may come down not to the Second Amendment but to the due process clause because of the lack of protections for gun owners seeking to challenge such seizures of their property. Moreover, while red flag laws could deter some violence, they would not necessarily have prevented many of the recent massacres by shooters who did not show such red flags. The shooter in Dayton had plenty of flags including “rape lists” for students at his high school. Conversely, the suspect in the El Paso shooting had few red flags and was described as a “loner” during college....

The point is not to abandon efforts to seek reforms. I have long supported gun controls. However, we can either work with legal realities in crafting such reforms or simply “scream into the void” of our constitutional law.

by Jonathan Turley, opinion contributor - 08/07/19 1:00 PM ET

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/456557-why-gun-control-is-so-hard-to-enact/

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER (No. 07-290)

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/07-290

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. City of New York, New York

Argument: December 2, 2019
Decided: April 27, 2020

The New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., Romolo Colantone, Efrain Alvarez, and Jose Anthony Irizarry challenged a New York City rule enacted in 2001. The rule said an individual with a premises license for a handgun is only allowed to take the handgun out of his or her home to go to a shooting range within the city limits. The petitioners wanted to take their guns to ranges outside of the city limits and to their second homes outside of the city, but they were denied the ability to do so. They argued that the restrictions violated their 2nd Amendment right, the dormant Commerce Clause, the 1st Amendment right of expressive association, and the fundamental right to travel.[5]

The district court ruled that the provisions of New York City's premises license did not violate the 2nd Amendment, the Commerce Clause, the fundamental right to travel, or the 1st Amendment. The United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit affirmed the district court's ruling.[5] The New York State Rifle & Pistol Association appealed to the Supreme Court, and the court agreed to hear the case on January 22, 2019.

Before oral argument took place in December 2019, New York City repealed the rule and New York State changed its laws

https://ballotpedia.org/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_Association_Inc._v._City_of_New_York,_New_York

******

Something Jonathan Turley points out in the "gun control debate", and I agree with him, is that practical reform means practical law. Not theater by politicians offering and promising the impossible.

Turley explains that there is a hard push to drive gun control legislation, that while it might excite a politician's core base to go to the voting booths for them, they know none of it will pass Constitutional muster.

Turley wants gun control, but practical reasonable gun control built within the realities of our actual Constitution and how it's applied. Turley often points out in difficult legal scenarios, and again I agree, is that you can't just arbitrarily "massage" the law in front of you or ask the courts to do so to get some kind of specific outcome for some specific agenda, if you want fundamental change, you need to use the formal process in place to change the actual law.

If you want actual gun control that will actually have real function, you must move beyond what is going to sound good to voters and donors shouting at a camera.

Someone will say, well you aren't offering any solutions, but two "starting" solutions I've discussed multiple times in the PSF still apply here

1) All gun owners should be required to own a gun safe. While this won't stop every mass shooting/active shooter scenario, it would provide a logistic fix in terms of others accessing firearms that belong to others.

2) There should be a Constitutional Amendment passed that all gun owners are responsible for "their guns"  If your minor has mental health issues and takes your firearm, that you legally purchased as an adult or even otherwise obtained illegally, and then shoots up a school, you should have your assets seized, have your citizenship stripped and you should be deported out of the country permanently if you are put on trial and you are convicted of this new "law"

I believe in extreme ownership, and I also believe that for firearm ownership. If it's your gun, you are responsible for all blood that comes with that gun if it happens. In absolute terms.

These are two "starting" suggestions I have for helping to stave off more mass shootings.

I am Pro2A, however I am not Pro2A without practical limits given the reality of the current world around us. Pro2A folks have to operate much smarter, be more vigilant and do a better job of being and setting an example at all times. This is how you win hearts and minds and help people recognize that law abiding citizens are not the ones committing the majority of gun crimes out there. And Anti2A folks have to understand that they aren't going to get some broad sweeping changes in how Americans in general own firearms. There are legal realities in play and people have to start looking at moderate level legal wins and practical public policy changes, not falling in lockstep with virtue signaling by someone trying to get reelected.

 

[GordonGekko]

VIDEO: Joe Rogan - Depression Isn't a Chemical Imbalance? Feb 12, 2018

Joe Rogan and Johann Hari discuss whether depression is due to a chemical imbalance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNiPxNkr_Lk

VIDEO: Joe Rogan - Why Are So Many People Depressed? Oct 20, 2018

Taken from Joe Rogan Experience #1132:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N2w7Ai9g7Q

VIDEO: Dr. Phil's Philosophy on Depression - "Pain is a Motivator" | Joe Rogan Feb 26, 2019

Taken from Joe Rogan Experience #1254 w/Dr. Phil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ahw_gf8Vw

******

There are multiple facets to mental health in America.

And mental health is deeply embedded in the core of the gun control issue in the United States, as every active shooter situation raises more alarm bells about the state of general mental health in our country.

There are some complex and sometimes ugly questions raised about whether some folks are inherently past the point of no return in terms of mental health on a purely genetic level. Some people were just born very unlucky. Then there is the issue of how food and diet and nutrition plays so much into our mental state. If you eat highly processed food that is taxing on the body and it changes your body composition and mood and emotions, of course that creates a cascading impact on mental health. And Dr Phil points out that mental health has a stigma and no one wants to talk about it but often depression and mental health struggles are lagging indicators of real prolonged untreated and unresolved pain.

So solutions?

Well no one can magically change the food industry overnight. Or the power of Big Pharma and their lobbying and then influence in how health care is handled, especially regarding mental health. And no one can magically make the toxic element of Big Social Media to simply vanish into thin air.

What can be done is to focus on getting more people to exercise on a regular basis. More Americans exercising and creating more pathways for children in schools to do more exercise and creating a pro exercise culture all over the country will have much more benefit to the nation's mental health status than any other solution.

People who are exercising all the time and feeling better about themselves and their bodies are changing and their moods are better will want to

1) Think about eating better and eating healthier and avoiding highly processed junk food and fast food that damages their ability to be at prime health.

2) Will give people more options beyond just taking a pill or wanting their kids to take a pill to make their distress and some mental health struggles to go away

3) See the push/pull and risk/reward of being on Big Social Media all the time and reflect on whether that's good for their overall emotional state.

While that seems like an overly simplistic answer, I don't think this has to be all that complicated. Everyone doing hard physical training and being outside and getting fresh air and being around other people in a positive way and even group exercise where you met people and bond and share laughs and help each other, this is good for the individual but also good for community and good for society.

 

[GordonGekko]

Direct Headline: Gun bug: 33 months of 1 million-plus gun sales

A new analysis of FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System data indicates that gun sale background checks have crossed the 1.25 million threshold for 33 straight months, sustaining the highest-ever era of gun purchases....

“April’s NSSF adjusted NICS figures of 1,359,908 shows that there is a steady and sustained appetite for lawful firearm ownership in America. April’s figure continues the streak of more than 1 million background checks for the sale of a firearm for 33 months and demonstrates that the firearm industry continues to meet America’s strong demand for lawful firearm ownership....It is clear that those looking for the ‘new normal’ of firearm sales following the two outsized years of 2020 and 2021 can find all the evidence needed to know that law-abiding citizens are turning out by the millions each month to exercise their Second Amendment rights......”

Those two years saw the highest-ever number of FBI background checks for gun sales due to violent Black Lives Matter protests, surging crime, and the presidential election. During that period, gun sales surged, especially among women and black Americans, due to safety concerns....the COVID pandemic, riots and unrest, and a rise in violent crime caused millions of Americans to embrace their right to keep and bear arms for the first time in their lives....

by Paul Bedard May 04, 2022 03:24 PM

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/gun-bug-33-months-of-1-million-plus-gun-sales

Direct Headline: Gun sales have exploded. Funny, that didn’t make us all safer.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives just released a report documenting the mind-boggling scale of gun manufacturing in the United States. It shows that from 2010 to 2020, the number of guns produced every year doubled.

By Paul Waldman May 18, 2022 at 2:12 p.m. EDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/18/gun-sales-exploded-didnt-make-us-safer/

National Firearms Commerce And Trafficking Assessment

https://www.atf.gov/file/166881/download

********

Democrats can't have it both ways. They can't try to push for stricter and stricter gun control on one hand, then have public policies that enable and even promote crime and civil unrest with the other.

Nothing is more powerful than when people vote with their wallet. They are clearly voting to become gun owners en masse because they have no faith that the Biden Administration can protect them.

Team Blue can shout at the wind all day. They can condescend and try to shame and gaslight the average every day working class American citizen about gun ownership, but it doesn't matter. People are going to do what they need to do to protect themselves. If Democrats wanted fewer guns on the streets then incentivize public safety and public order so everyday people don't feel like being a first time gun owner is their only option and last resort.

 

[timschochet]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

Two of those three threads are cesspools.  The third is about a very specific piece of legislation.  

And besides, GG's original post from back in April raises a pretty good point.  The guy with the NRA stickers and gun rack on his truck is probably not a persuadable voter on this issue, so forget about those people for a moment.  Just put yourself in the shoes of a boring, non-gun owning, right-leaning or centrist suburbanite, and ask yourself whether you are more or less inclined to support an individual's right to own a shotgun, handgun, or long rifle for the purpose of home defense than you were in, say, 2019. 

Since 2019, violent crime has risen.  We've had "defund the police."  We had widespread looting and rioting across the country.  We had an angry mob storm the capitol building in an effort to overturn a fair election.  We had a major world power have its ### handed to it by, essentially, a bunch of randos.  We have people threatening supreme court justices.  We have domestic terror groups that are actively trying to spark a race war.   

I was born in 1972 so I have no first-hand knowledge of the era, but today's United States feels a lot like the 1968-1978 or so era in terms of general social unravelling.  It is politically impossible to impose any kind of meaningful gun control in that sort of context.  Voters who might be persuadable on gun control are not going to support you if the state can't credibly promise to maintain social order. 

(I should add that I don't actually own a gun, except for the .22 rifle that my dad got for me when I was a kid.  I'm free riding off the fact that more than half of my neighbors are gun-owners and the bad guys don't know that I'm not one of them.)

 

[Manster]

I finally got my CHL this year.  I do a lot of fishing on a river that is in an urban-ish setting.  It's pretty sketch,and gotten MUCH sketchier over the last few years.  I'm usually solo, and there are lots of "isolated" areas with good fishing.  Normally I would open carry, which I prefer in that setting anyway....good deterrent.  Anyway, looked into the laws and u can only open carry if u have a CHL in this given area, which seems dumb, but Im not into breaking laws, especially firearm laws.

Criminals on the other hand don't care about laws.  And I do believe there is a feeling of being emboldened, especially with robbery, and property destruction.  Also, cops don't want to deal with all these P's of S. I don't blame em.  Anymore, the criminals have more rights than the officers......and im not excusing bad cops.....I'm just saying what I see, based on what's happened in the world the last few years. 

All that to say, you better believe average Americans are arming themselves.  Our country is turning into a cesspool, and there's an excuse for why people are criminals around every corner.

 

[timschochet]

Two of those three threads are cesspools.  The third is about a very specific piece of legislation.  

And besides, GG's original post from back in April raises a pretty good point.  The guy with the NRA stickers and gun rack on his truck is probably not a persuadable voter on this issue, so forget about those people for a moment.  Just put yourself in the shoes of a boring, non-gun owning, right-leaning or centrist suburbanite, and ask yourself whether you are more or less inclined to support an individual's right to own a shotgun, handgun, or long rifle for the purpose of home defense than you were in, say, 2019. 

Since 2019, violent crime has risen.  We've had "defund the police."  We had widespread looting and rioting across the country.  We had an angry mob storm the capitol building in an effort to overturn a fair election.  We had a major world power have its ### handed to it by, essentially, a bunch of randos.  We have people threatening supreme court justices.  We have domestic terror groups that are actively trying to spark a race war.   

I was born in 1972 so I have no first-hand knowledge of the era, but today's United States feels a lot like the 1968-1978 or so era in terms of general social unravelling.  It is politically impossible to impose any kind of meaningful gun control in that sort of context.  Voters who might be persuadable on gun control are not going to support you if the state can't credibly promise to maintain social order. 

If you’re speaking about banning weapons I agree. But if by gun control you’re referring to universal background checks and ending the private sales loophole, I certainly disagree. I think we can get it done. 
 

I don’t regard the other threads as cesspools. There’s been some pretty good discussions there. I think they’re better than long diatribes. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you’re speaking about banning weapons I agree. But if by gun control you’re referring to universal background checks and ending the private sales loophole, I certainly disagree. I think we can get it done. 

Yeah, that stuff is still probably do-able.  

 

[GordonGekko]

Direct Headline: ‘Defund the police’ still haunts Democrats

It’s becoming increasingly clear that after the economy, crime is a hot-button issue driving voter sentiment in the lead-up to the November elections. But despite voter concern, Democrats continue to be divided over the controversial “defund the police” mantra that has grabbed headlines for the past two years, and it’s beginning to hurt their prospects for the fall elections....

....A month later, a gunman shot up a New York subway train, and an inconvenient 2019 letter from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Jerrold Nadler and other liberal New York House members resurfaced. The letter to then-Gov. Andrew Cuomo opposed a plan to put 500 new Metropolitan Transportation Authority officers in the subways to reduce crime....

....When the electorate was asked in the Winning the Issues (WTI) February survey if they believed that we need to defund the police, only 21 percent believed the statement, while 64 percent did not. Independents were even more adamant that defunding the police was a bad idea, coming in at an overwhelming 12 percent for and 70 percent against.... the WTI research shows that Democrats are losing the issue, with more voters believing that the Democratic Party supports defunding the police than not by a margin of 48 percent to 34 percent. 

There are three main reasons for the Democrats’ troubles on this issue. First, there is widespread recognition of just how serious rising crime is becoming, with 7 out of 10 voters believing that across America, violent crime is escalating....Six out of 10 voters agree with the statement that “families, communities and small business are being endangered and experiencing the devastating effects of rhetoric about defunding the police and police department budget cuts at the hands of politicians.” ...These views extend across party, ideology, age and region, making a concept like defunding the police totally out of tune with most voters who oppose it by a 3-to-1 margin.  

There’s a second reason for the Democrats’ weakness on the crime issue. ...On the White House website list of priorities, crime doesn’t even make the list. The White House's lack of acknowledgment and often dismissive rhetoric about crime, particularly in cities with progressive mayors and prosecutors, has led directly to its weak standing on the issue. ...As a result, when voters were asked in the March survey whether they believed Democrats would focus on law enforcement efforts to deal with violent offenders, they were split, with 44 percent believing they would and 43 percent believing they wouldn’t. Independents were even more skeptical, with 36 percent believing and 46 percent not believing. ...In contrast, voters by a 61 percent to 27 percent margin believed that Republicans would stand with law enforcement in their efforts to ensure the safety of our communities and the protection of America’s families and children....

...Finally, with police officers, Democrats have chosen the wrong group to vilify. The police have a very favorable brand image (72 percent favorable, 20 percent unfavorable in the March WTI survey). Congressional Democrats have a negative brand at 44 percent favorable, 49 percent unfavorable. By affiliating themselves with the defund the police movement, they are seen by voters as opposing a very positive group of public servants who are well liked and supported by the electorate.....

By David Winston (Election Analyst CBS News) April 27, 2022 at 6:00am

https://rollcall.com/2022/04/27/defund-the-police-still-haunts-democrats/

AUDIO: OPINION: Are the Democrats failing Americans with crime?

As gun violence skyrockets in New Orleans, Chicago, Minneapolis, Philly and America's other big cities while the Democrats are in charge, it begs the question: What are they doing -- if anything -- to stop it?

By Audacy Staff May 20, 20228:31 am

https://www.audacy.com/kxnt/news/national/are-the-democrats-failing-americans-with-crime

******

Public safety and civil order ( as stated above in the polling, but it's more than obvious in just general observation of every day life) - is valued across age, gender (you unpack that how you want), race, culture, religion, political affiliation and socioeconomic status.

And the Democratic Party is tracking to lose independents across the board in the Mid Terms and the 2024 general cycle.

You cannot be seen as the "Party Of Defund The Police" and the "Party That Gives Lip Service To Public Safety" ( People can hash out how far those designations are, but that's the perception) and then also be the same Party demanding everyone's firearms at the same time.

You won't protect the every day working class American. Moreso, the public policies appear intent on turning them into prey. Then there's the hard push to pick "culture wars" over said public order and further driving the message that Team Blue won't even let the rank and file have the means to defend themselves.

Too many guns is an American problem. A long standing one. People can break that down how they like.

But the hyper drive in gun ownership in the past 2-3 years is fueled by actions/apathy/intentional malpractice of the current establishment Democrats and Progressives in power positions.

If too many guns is seen as breeding too much violence, as a direct correlation, then Team Blue has blood all over their hands.

 

[LawFitz]

If you’re speaking about banning weapons I agree. But if by gun control you’re referring to universal background checks and ending the private sales loophole, I certainly disagree. I think we can get it done. 
 

I don’t regard the other threads as cesspools. There’s been some pretty good discussions there. I think they’re better than long diatribes. 

Fair point about the diatribes, but GG brings some solid info to these boards constantly, if you have the ability to scan, refocus and digest, as I know you, in particular do. I won't say the same for others, but honestly, they aren't worth his efforts. You and others like you, are. Take what you can and translate for the masses, my dude.

 

[LawFitz]

If you’re speaking about banning weapons I agree. But if by gun control you’re referring to universal background checks and ending the private sales loophole, I certainly disagree. I think we can get it done. 
 

I don’t regard the other threads as cesspools. There’s been some pretty good discussions there. I think they’re better than long diatribes. 

Also, too many in those other threads are either openly or not so slyly trying to backdoor their arguments toward banning firearms altogether. You seem much more forthright, which I respect very much, even if we don't always agree. Thank you for that. True honesty goes a long way, and even the best of us can get caught in the grey between lies and deceptions. At the core, they are one and the same, even if we generally don't like to accept that.

 

[knowledge dropper]

Spot On. 
 

I did not want to weigh in during this tragedy either way, but GG nailed this one.  Taking away guns and access to guns from law abiding citizens in this environment is not going to play well.  

 

[Max Power]

I know of at least three families who came around on the idea of gun ownership during the Summer of Love. One was already very conservative, but never wanted a gun in the house.  They purchased their first one in 2020.

Same thing for a liberal family we're friends with.  They think its best to have one in the safe and ready to go "in case".

The other one was a split family where the husband had a gun, but the wife didn't like them. She came around on the idea and now the husband has several.

All this to say these were three sets of voters who were indifferent to or anti-gun just a couple years ago who now fully support gun rights.  Their views were shifted by a promotion of lawlessness.  That was not a winning issue. 

 

[glvsav37]

I mentioned this in another thread, the political and social discourse over the last few years has led to more guns in the system, not less. Average everyday people have been push to the point of feeling like their only defense is self-defense. Look at how 2 seemingly average people who vote differently cant even have a political discussion without it resorting to name calling and yelling. People are afraid of unnecessarily violent reactions to opposing political views. 

Add in the chaos of Covid and the fevered calls on TV for people to be forcefully separated 

 

[GordonGekko]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

VIDEO: Sealioning: The Fastest Way to Shut Down Dialogue Mar 25, 2021

Sealioning prevents people from having productive conversations online. Learn how to identify it and what to do to put a stop to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoZ3YYJryrQ

DIRECT HEADLINE: 'Sealioning' Is A Common Trolling Tactic On Social Media--What Is It?

"Rhetorically, sealioning fuses persistent questioning—often about basic information, information on easily found elsewhere, or unrelated or tangential points—with a loudly-insisted-upon commitment to reasonable debate. It disguises itself as a sincere attempt to learn and communicate. Sealioning thus works both to exhaust a target’s patience, attention, and communicative effort, and to portray the target as unreasonable. While the questions of the “sea lion” may seem innocent, they’re intended maliciously and have harmful consequences."

Amy Johnson Mar 7, 2019

https://cyber.harvard.edu/story/2019-03/sealioning-common-trolling-tactic-social-media-what-it

DIRECT HEADLINE: Young Men, Guns and Guardrails: Stopping mass shooters like the one in Uvalde, Texas, will be harder than passing a law.

The massacre at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday has produced the usual demands to “do something.” We share the impulse and the anger, but what specifically to do? The reason there are more demands than solutions is because the problem of how to stop mass shootings by disturbed young men is one of the hardest in a democratic society....The profile emerging of [Active Shooter's Name Redacted], the 18-year-old who killed 19 children and two teachers, is depressingly familiar. A teenage loner with a disruptive family life. Bullied as a child because of a speech impediment. Immersed in video games and other virtual reality. [Redacted], who was killed amid his massacre, had fought with his mother and hinted at violent ambitions. He shot his grandmother before he drove to the school and murdered children with a rifle in a fourth-grade classroom.....

This is achingly similar to the profile of other young mass killers from Sandy Hook to Aurora, Parkland, Tucson, Virginia Tech and Buffalo. They suffer from some mental illness or profound social alienation. The societal challenge is anticipating when such a young man—and it is nearly always a young man—will snap, and how and when to deny him access to firearms.

As he often does, Barack Obama summed up the single-minded response of the progressive side of American politics. “Nearly ten years after Sandy Hook—and ten days after Buffalo—our country is paralyzed,” he wrote on Twitter, “not by fear, but by a gun lobby and a political party that have shown no willingness to act in any way that might help prevent these tragedies.” He continued: “It’s long past time for action, any kind of action.”....Leave it to the former President (Obama) to demonize his political opponents in the wake of an act of madness. But note his default to “action, any kind of action.” Anything apparently will do as long as it offers the self-satisfaction that we are doing something, even if it turns out to be futile or counter-productive.....

We aren’t opposed to sensible gun regulation if it is politically possible and might prevent such killings. So-called red-flag laws that give police the ability to deny guns to people who may pose a risk to the community have been useful in some cases. But they are hard to enforce, as we recently learned in Buffalo. New York state has a red-flag statute, and Payton Gendron was even referred for mental counseling. He still got a gun....Would background checks beyond those that already exist help? Unlikely, since these young men rarely have a criminal record. A six-day waiting period to receive a gun after it’s purchased? Not for someone who is determined to kill. A ban on purchasing a rifle until the age of 21? As Gov. Greg Abbott pointed out Wednesday, 18-year-olds have been able to buy long guns in Texas for more than 60 years. Yet for decades mass shootings were rare....

....The recent proliferation of mass shootings suggests a deeper malady than gun laws can fix. Firearm laws were few and weak before the 1970s. Yet only in recent decades have young men entered schools and supermarkets for the purpose of killing the innocent. That a teenager could look at a nine-year-old, aim a gun, and pull the trigger signals some larger social and cultural breakdown....It also suggests that society may have to adapt by rethinking our hands-off attitudes to antisocial behavior and mental illness. Security at schools and churches will need to be enhanced. Big Data may help law enforcement identify potential risks, and we may need to give them freer rein to intervene in borderline cases. A return to more social sanction and intervention for antisocial behavior would also help the vulnerable and lost who most need help.

The modern welfare state is adept at writing checks, but not much else. Today’s young killers aren’t motivated by material deprivation. They are typically from middle-class families with access to smartphones and X-boxes. Their deficit is social and spiritual. The rise of family dysfunction and the decline of mediating institutions such as churches and social clubs have consequences.....

......We are fated to have another debate on gun control because half of American politics will insist on it. By all means have at it. But anyone who thinks gun laws will end mass shootings in America isn’t paying attention to the much larger problem of mental illness and the collapse of cultural guardrails.

By The Editorial Board May 25, 2022 6:39 pm ET

https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326

*****

Well, Tim the Sealion,

If you don't like my posts, feel free to use the Report Button.  Since a Staff member this week was upset about the Hillary Clinton/Durham expose in the WSJ Editorial section, he denounced the value of the WSJ Editorial section as an unreliable source. First, it was just Breitbart and Gateway Pundit and the like where it was acceptable to say Conservatives and Republicans linking through are "posting lies", but now it's the WSJ Editorial system. So go ahead, maybe you'll get my thread deleted since I just covered the WSJ Editorial Board again. Point to note, if there's a pathway to just outright codify half the community as liars without any introspection on what is being actually presented and discussed, that's not in keeping with "Let's Be Better"  You can't self engineer source policing and then later decry "Let's Be Better" It doesn't work that way, it's intellectually dishonest and it's not actual integrity. But I'm apparently the only Conservative who will say it out loud. And if I face retaliation for it, then so be it.

Never mind your sealioning though. It's not like you aren't making that obvious and transparent. Tim, if you want to make it harder for Conservatives and Republicans to have their own voice here in the PSF, for the benefit of diversity of thought and diversity of opinion, I can arrange it so that every Conservative and Republican subscriber, in the PSF or not, is incentivized to leave forever. This would however kill the platform and the forums within it and you'd have nowhere to sealion anyone anymore. Pick your poison. You can silence me or try to do it, or you can silence everyone. Or you could do something entirely different, what you should be doing in the first place, which is actually argue the merits of the current discussion being held on the topic being covered, or find somewhere else to gaslight people.

And speaking of talking about the actual topic at hand, the actual Wall Street Journal points out something no one else in the activist complicit hard left leaning MSM wont bother to discuss -

Four of the most recent major "active shooter" / mass shooter tragedies were done by very young men, with limited to no criminal records, who were so young that it was close to impossible to track them beforehand using any kind of background check system. What kind of track record of "potential threat predictors" do most young men have? Especially if they are still living at home and not in the full time working world yet? Minors are expected to go through difficult and rebellious stages. At what point is a teenager being a not so uncommon emotionally broken teenager versus being a threat to be an active shooter?  Where is the hard line for a young person to be truly mentally ill or the routine isolated and displaced "staring in their phone" all day typical exhausting young adult without much real life experience?

Would more restrictive gun laws and gun control help prevent these specific kind of active shooters?  People can argue that in multiple ways. But in Sandy Hook, Aurora, Parkland, Tucson, Virginia Tech and Buffalo, it's just not that simple. Screaming "Do Something" as the WSJ Editorial Board discusses is more about virtue signaling and less about function.

Blaming guns is easy. It's also cheap. And how Obama uses it, it's actually toxic. But addressing the actual institutional and community rot that exists for many emotionally and mentally broken young men in America is a conversation that the radical left and the establishment Democrats don't really want to have.

The more you attack me, the more you cast a reasonable light on all Conservative viewpoints. But this isn't even a Conservative leaning viewpoint, it's mostly common sense. Should our society work to consider more effective and practical controls on gun ownership, gun laws, gun training and actual balance that protects law abiding citizens as gun owners? Yes. But guns are the tools of something much deeper and much uglier about our society and culture that many want to pretend doesn't exist because it challenges their cognitive dissonance and their personal political tribalism.

You do you, Tim. You just do it so damn poorly all the time. If you want to run me down, then actually step up and raise the level of discussion.

 

[GordonGekko]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

DIRECT HEADLINE: 'Sealioning' Is A Common Trolling Tactic On Social Media--What Is It?

".....people who troll online by pretending to ask sincere questions, but just keep feigning ignorance and repeating 'polite' follow ups until someone gets fed up. That way, they can cast their opponents as attacking them and being unreasonable.....It's called 'sealioning'...."

Marshall Shepherd Mar 7, 2019,07:01am EST

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2019/03/07/sealioning-is-a-common-trolling-tactic-on-social-media-what-is-it/?sh=3d43164e7a41

DIRECT HEADLINE:  Hunter Biden Incident Shows that Gun Laws are for the Little People

For those who have yet to learn of Hunter’s escapades in firearm ownership, according to a report from Politico, the troubled son of the president purchased a .38-caliber revolver from a Delaware Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) on October 12, 2018. In order to acquire the gun, Hunter filled out the required BATFE Form 4473. On October 23, Hallie Biden, widow to Joe Biden’s son Beau and then-companion to Hunter, searched (his) truck, which was parked at her home in Wilmington, Del., and found the handgun. Apparently fearing for Hunter’s safety, Hallie wrapped the revolver in a shopping bag and threw it into a trash receptacle outside nearby gourmet grocery store Janssen’s Market – which is located across the street from the campus of Alexis I. du Pont High School.

Later that day, after Hunter told Hallie to retrieve the firearm, Hallie returned to where she had disposed of the gun but could not find it. At this point law enforcement was notified of the missing firearm, prompting an investigation that reportedly involved the Delaware State Police, the United States Secret Service, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation....Secret Service agents approached the owner of the store where Hunter bought the gun and asked to take the paperwork involving the sale, according to two people, one of whom has firsthand knowledge of the episode and the other was briefed by a Secret Service agent after the fact....The gun store owner refused to supply the paperwork, suspecting that the Secret Service officers wanted to hide Hunter’s ownership of the missing gun in case it were to be involved in a crime, ...The owner, Ron Palmieri, later turned over the papers to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, which oversees federal gun laws....

Hunter was discharged from the U.S. Navy Reserve in 2014 after he tested positive for cocaine. Further, at various times, Hunter has been a notorious and admitted drug user. Hunter’s lengthy battle with drugs has been chronicled by himself and the Biden family in numerous interviews ...It is illegal for a person “who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance” to possess a firearm. Possession of a firearm by a prohibited person is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment....In order to purchase a firearm from an FFL, a buyer must fill out a Form 4473. The form asks, “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?” Hunter answered “No” to this question....

Lying on a form 4473 is two separate crimes. It is a crime when a person “knowingly makes any false statement or representation with respect to the information required by this chapter to be kept in the records of a person licensed under this chapter,” such as the Form 4473. A violation of this provision is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. It is also a crime for a person to “make any false or fictitious oral or written statement” to a dealer “with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale.” A violation of this provision is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment.

Janssen’s Market is located less than 250 yards from the campus of Alexis I. du Pont High School....As a U.S. senator, Joe Biden was a key proponent of the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990....18 USC 922(q)(2)(A) provides, (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.....This point is underscored by the Secret Service’s alleged involvement in the case. Rather than having their conduct scrutinized by federal law enforcement, if the Politico report and Hunter’s contemporaneous text messages are to be believed, the federal government tried to cover up for the prominent pair.....

As well-protected politicians and their establishment allies push for new gun controls, ordinary law-abiding Americans should know that these hypocrites have no intention of parting with their own elaborate security measures or being otherwise inconvenienced by the burdens they foist upon the rest of us.

NRA-ILA Monday, April 5, 2021

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210405/hunter-biden-incident-shows-that-gun-laws-are-for-the-little-people

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/25/sources-secret-service-inserted-itself-into-case-of-hunter-bidens-gun-477879

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hunter-biden-tackles-cocaine-diamonds-alleged-business-conflicts/story?id=64064060

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/joe-biden-gun-free-school-zones-champion-busing-critic-is-running-for-president/2019/04

******

Team Blue wants strict gun control for every day working class American citizens. Most of which are law abiding.

But not for Hunter Biden. Especially for Hunter Biden. Point to note that Hunter Biden is protected by the Secret Service, paid for with our tax dollars. Highly trained men with guns and vast resources to keep him safe. The every day working class person doesn't have that luxury. They also don't have the luxury to have their criminal behavior with guns just get washed away with the leverage of the Biden family name.

Many "brand name" Democrats set loose career criminals onto the streets, tried to hamstring the current law enforcement community and egged the violence on during the 2020 election cycle. And then wanted to strip the rights, the actual Constitutional rights, of working class Americans who pay those politician's salaries with tax dollars, to have any means to defend themselves. While showing a clear separate set of rules for the "Elites" like a notorious crack head like Hunter Biden.

Team Blue's apparent public policy  - You are better off being a crack head with the right last name and a gun than being an honest hard working taxpayer wanting to fulfill your Constitutional rights.

 

[The Big Donkey]

DIRECT HEADLINE: 'Sealioning' Is A Common Trolling Tactic On Social Media--What Is It?

".....people who troll online by pretending to ask sincere questions, but just keep feigning ignorance and repeating 'polite' follow ups until someone gets fed up. That way, they can cast their opponents as attacking them and being unreasonable.....It's called 'sealioning'...."

Marshall Shepherd Mar 7, 2019,07:01am EST

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2019/03/07/sealioning-is-a-common-trolling-tactic-on-social-media-what-is-it/?sh=3d43164e7a41

DIRECT HEADLINE:  Hunter Biden Incident Shows that Gun Laws are for the Little People

For those who have yet to learn of Hunter’s escapades in firearm ownership, according to a report from Politico, the troubled son of the president purchased a .38-caliber revolver from a Delaware Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) on October 12, 2018. In order to acquire the gun, Hunter filled out the required BATFE Form 4473. On October 23, Hallie Biden, widow to Joe Biden’s son Beau and then-companion to Hunter, searched (his) truck, which was parked at her home in Wilmington, Del., and found the handgun. Apparently fearing for Hunter’s safety, Hallie wrapped the revolver in a shopping bag and threw it into a trash receptacle outside nearby gourmet grocery store Janssen’s Market – which is located across the street from the campus of Alexis I. du Pont High School.

Later that day, after Hunter told Hallie to retrieve the firearm, Hallie returned to where she had disposed of the gun but could not find it. At this point law enforcement was notified of the missing firearm, prompting an investigation that reportedly involved the Delaware State Police, the United States Secret Service, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation....Secret Service agents approached the owner of the store where Hunter bought the gun and asked to take the paperwork involving the sale, according to two people, one of whom has firsthand knowledge of the episode and the other was briefed by a Secret Service agent after the fact....The gun store owner refused to supply the paperwork, suspecting that the Secret Service officers wanted to hide Hunter’s ownership of the missing gun in case it were to be involved in a crime, ...The owner, Ron Palmieri, later turned over the papers to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, which oversees federal gun laws....

Hunter was discharged from the U.S. Navy Reserve in 2014 after he tested positive for cocaine. Further, at various times, Hunter has been a notorious and admitted drug user. Hunter’s lengthy battle with drugs has been chronicled by himself and the Biden family in numerous interviews ...It is illegal for a person “who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance” to possess a firearm. Possession of a firearm by a prohibited person is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment....In order to purchase a firearm from an FFL, a buyer must fill out a Form 4473. The form asks, “Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?” Hunter answered “No” to this question....

Lying on a form 4473 is two separate crimes. It is a crime when a person “knowingly makes any false statement or representation with respect to the information required by this chapter to be kept in the records of a person licensed under this chapter,” such as the Form 4473. A violation of this provision is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. It is also a crime for a person to “make any false or fictitious oral or written statement” to a dealer “with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale.” A violation of this provision is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment.

Janssen’s Market is located less than 250 yards from the campus of Alexis I. du Pont High School....As a U.S. senator, Joe Biden was a key proponent of the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990....18 USC 922(q)(2)(A) provides, (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.....This point is underscored by the Secret Service’s alleged involvement in the case. Rather than having their conduct scrutinized by federal law enforcement, if the Politico report and Hunter’s contemporaneous text messages are to be believed, the federal government tried to cover up for the prominent pair.....

As well-protected politicians and their establishment allies push for new gun controls, ordinary law-abiding Americans should know that these hypocrites have no intention of parting with their own elaborate security measures or being otherwise inconvenienced by the burdens they foist upon the rest of us.

NRA-ILA Monday, April 5, 2021

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20210405/hunter-biden-incident-shows-that-gun-laws-are-for-the-little-people

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/25/sources-secret-service-inserted-itself-into-case-of-hunter-bidens-gun-477879

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hunter-biden-tackles-cocaine-diamonds-alleged-business-conflicts/story?id=64064060

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/joe-biden-gun-free-school-zones-champion-busing-critic-is-running-for-president/2019/04

******

Team Blue wants strict gun control for every day working class American citizens. Most of which are law abiding.

But not for Hunter Biden. Especially for Hunter Biden. Point to note that Hunter Biden is protected by the Secret Service, paid for with our tax dollars. Highly trained men with guns and vast resources to keep him safe. The every day working class person doesn't have that luxury. They also don't have the luxury to have their criminal behavior with guns just get washed away with the leverage of the Biden family name.

Many "brand name" Democrats set loose career criminals onto the streets, tried to hamstring the current law enforcement community and egged the violence on during the 2020 election cycle. And then wanted to strip the rights, the actual Constitutional rights, of working class Americans who pay those politician's salaries with tax dollars, to have any means to defend themselves. While showing a clear separate set of rules for the "Elites" like a notorious crack head like Hunter Biden.

Team Blue's apparent public policy  - You are better off being a crack head with the right last name and a gun than being an honest hard working taxpayer wanting to fulfill your Constitutional rights.

yeah, i posted about Hunter lying on that form awhile back. didn't get much action on it.     enforce the laws we have and figure out what we need.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I know of at least three families who came around on the idea of gun ownership during the Summer of Love. One was already very conservative, but never wanted a gun in the house.  They purchased their first one in 2020.

Same thing for a liberal family we're friends with.  They think its best to have one in the safe and ready to go "in case".

The other one was a split family where the husband had a gun, but the wife didn't like them. She came around on the idea and now the husband has several.

All this to say these were three sets of voters who were indifferent to or anti-gun just a couple years ago who now fully support gun rights.  Their views were shifted by a promotion of lawlessness.  That was not a winning issue. 

Their views shifted by the promotion of fear from the right.  A staple of both sides, but the right is just as bad (if not worse) despite constantly touting "I refuse to live in fear" as a tagline. 

Covid kills literally 1 million Americans and it's "I refuse to live in fear".  But on the flipside it's "we have to start this $2 trillion war because of made up WMDs" or "we have to let the government listen to our phone calls because of terrorist attacks that kill fewer people than furniture".  

Now it's "we won't live in fear from these 1 million deaths, coming up after the commercial homicides are up by 2,000 from last year and still well below the numbers from the 80's and 90's, how many dozen assault rifles do you need to protect yourself?".

 

[GordonGekko]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

DIRECT HEADLINE: Gaslighting, Sealioning and Dealing With Online Harassment

Where’s the evidence of that? Explain to me what you meant by that statement. I’m just trying to ask nicely, why are you getting aggressive?

Nothing seems wrong with these right? They’re polite questions, no?...No, explains mental health professional and social worker Hena Faqurudheen, “In the age of Google and online information, one can easily find out basic information by oneself.”...Enter ‘sealioning’ or the “attempt to troll or harass a person by asking them to spend their time and effort to educate you....Some people define it as a form of "aggressive cluelessness" - citing one's own ignorance to get someone else to explain things for you. But here's the other thing - it also never ends....Invariably, the person continues to keep asking questions, expecting that you will continue to answer. And because we want to be considered right and honest, we expend time and energy to prove our point. But this form of "discussion" often ends up frustrating those of us who have set out to educate....The person sealioning you is trying to interrogate you, trying to catch you out, and attempting to frustrate you so you will flounder. Then it becomes easy to proclaim your frustration as signs that you are not well-informed or aware, because “otherwise would you not know the answer?” and so on. This is an extremely insidious manner of engaging online....”

1) The person asks for readily available information.

2) They go on unrelated tangents or expect you to have information that is beyond your reach (or answer for others though you are not responsible)

3) They insist they are engaging in reasonable debate but persist with the questioning.

4) If you refuse to engage, then you are being unreasonable (which also indicates a sense of entitlement to your time and effort)

5) Even IF you choose to engage and give them answers/links to more resources, they keep asking more questions

Devina_Buckshee 28 Dec 2019, 2:38 PM

https://fit.thequint.com/mind-it/gaslighting-sealioning-mental-health#read-more

Direct Headline: Democrats Introduce Bill To Get Police Out Of Schools

The deaths of Black people at the hands of police this year ignited an important conversation about police reform in this country. A number of proposals have been introduced to address various facets of policing at the federal, state, and local levels. This week, Democratic lawmakers in Congress added to that list with a bill to get police out of schools....Senators Chris Murphy (CT) and Elizabeth Warren (MA), along with Representatives Ayanna Pressley (MA) and Ilhan Omar (MN), introduced the Counseling Not Criminalization in Schools Act that would prohibit federal money to be used to fund police in schools...The legislation has the backing of the two major teachers’ unions, the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) and the National Education Association (NEA). It also has the support of a number of civil rights organizations, including the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and the Human Rights Campaign....

....Systemic racism is a major problem in policing and Murphy pointed that out in regard to police in schools. He went on, “we know that Black and Latino kids are disproportionately affected, as they are referred and arrested at drastically higher rates than their white peers. If we are going to begin to tackle systemic racism in this country, we must start by addressing the racial inequities in our education system, and getting police out of classrooms is a necessary first step.....”

Wesley Whistle Jul 31, 2020,01:04pm EDT

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wesleywhistle/2020/07/31/democrats-introduce-bill-to-get-police-out-of-schools/?sh=294d2f32cc97

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Counseling Not Criminalization in Schools Act_FINAL.pdf

Direct Headline: 'Squad' Dems spent over $325K on private security last year, despite defund police rhetoric

Rep. Cori Bush, D-Mo., and other members of the far-left "Squad" collectively spent over $325,000 on private security in 2021 despite promoting the "defund the police" movement during the George Floyd unrest of 2020, according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records reviewed by Fox News Digital. ...Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., who supported dismantling the Minneapolis Police Department and called it "rotton to the root," spent over $30,000 on private security in 2021. In a June 2020 tweet, Omar defended the defund the police movement and said it was about "re-imagining the current police system to build an entity that does not violate us."...Other pro-defund the police "Squad" Democrats who doled out money for private security include Reps. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., who spent around $14,000 in 2021, Jamaal Bowman, D-N.Y., who spent $7,872 in 2021, and Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., who spent less than $3,000 in 2021.....

The Daily Caller reported the details: “According to the new Statement of Disbursements of the House records, [Rep. Ayanna] Pressley spent $63,000 of her Member Representational Allowance (MRA) on “security service” in 2021 — spending $28,000 between Oct. 1, 2021 and Dec. 31, 2021 and $35,000 between May 2021 and August 2021.”

By Cameron Cawthorne , Houston Keene February 1, 2022 9:10am EST

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/squad-dems-spent-over-300k-on-private-security-last-year-despite-defund-police-rhetoric

https://www.tpusa.com/live/rep-ayanna-pressley-spent-thousands-of-taxpayer-dollars-on-private-security-as-she-pushed-defund-the-police

******

Several "brand name" Democrats are on record wanting law enforcement out of schools. Which would mean fewer cops to defend against possible active shooter/mass shooting scenarios.

However these politicians all have private security. Well trained experienced operators licensed to carry firearms to keep them safe. Does the average every day working class American citizen have this option? On top of this, because they are elected officials, they are priority security principles for local law enforcement. Also based on the threat level and the circumstance, they can receive protection from the Capitol Police, the Secret Service, the US Marshals and the Diplomatic Security Service.

Ayanna Pressley was particularly egregious, using her MRA/HOR burn rate allotment ( tax payer dollars) to hire armed private security for herself while she lobbied to make sure armed law enforcement would not be in schools to protect your children.

And they want to take away your Constitutional right to defend yourself and your family ( because it's clear the government isn't going to help you, especially if you committed the crime of being a white Conservative male)  Do you think most Americans are buying the BS from The Squad and these establishment Democrats? Likely not as American civilians are buying firearms at a record pace the last three years.

You think these elected officials from Team Blue are sending their children into schools that don't have security? Does anyone here really believe that?

The lives of your children used as a bounty and boiled down to some talking points to appeal to corporate donors and to generate "energy" for their district's voting base. Often with your tax dollars covering the expense of "Rules For Thee, But Not For Me"

 

[Max Power]

Their views shifted by the promotion of fear from the right.  A staple of both sides, but the right is just as bad (if not worse) despite constantly touting "I refuse to live in fear" as a tagline. 

Covid kills literally 1 million Americans and it's "I refuse to live in fear".  But on the flipside it's "we have to start this $2 trillion war because of made up WMDs" or "we have to let the government listen to our phone calls because of terrorist attacks that kill fewer people than furniture".  

Now it's "we won't live in fear from these 1 million deaths, coming up after the commercial homicides are up by 2,000 from last year and still well below the numbers from the 80's and 90's, how many dozen assault rifles do you need to protect yourself?".

No their views shifted because we literally watched a CVS down the street from us get set on fire in front of camera crews while the police stood there. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Their views shifted by the promotion of fear from the right.  A staple of both sides, but the right is just as bad (if not worse) despite constantly touting "I refuse to live in fear" as a tagline. 

Covid kills literally 1 million Americans and it's "I refuse to live in fear".  But on the flipside it's "we have to start this $2 trillion war because of made up WMDs" or "we have to let the government listen to our phone calls because of terrorist attacks that kill fewer people than furniture".  

Now it's "we won't live in fear from these 1 million deaths, coming up after the commercial homicides are up by 2,000 from last year and still well below the numbers from the 80's and 90's, how many dozen assault rifles do you need to protect yourself?".

We all saw with our own eyes cities being burned, businesses looted, assaults and murders.  And this was over almost two years.  MSNBC/CNN will forever be emblazoned in our heads as they proclaimed "MOSTLY PEACEFUL PROTESTS" as they stood in front of burning neighborhoods.

We also shouldn't forget the whole Occupy Wallstreet and other "Occupy" protests either.

No offense, but don't piss on our legs,  tell us it's raining and try to gaslight us.  There is VERY REAL fear and it's not coming from the right. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

DIRECT HEADLINE: 'Sealioning' Is A Common Trolling Tactic On Social Media--What Is It?

".....people who troll online by pretending to ask sincere questions, but just keep feigning ignorance and repeating 'polite' follow ups until someone gets fed up. That way, they can cast their opponents as attacking them and being unreasonable.....It's called 'sealioning'...."

Tim doesn’t do this.  He shares his opinions much more than he asks questions. I suggest you review his posting history and see for yourself. You’ll realize you are mistaken.

Honestly I don’t recall anyone “sealioning” on FBGs.

 

[timschochet]

Wow, three VERY long diatribes in response to my post filled with direct headlines and links to videos. And beyond that quite a bit of hostility: “if you object to my posts feel free to report me,” etc. 

Its true I haven’t thought too highly of your contributions to this forum. I think they’re usually very bizarre and I won’t take back anything I’ve written. But I wasn’t doing that this time around. To the contrary, I was inviting you to partake in a normal give and take conversation for once. You actually did raise some interesting points, beyond the tiresome “let’s blame the Democrats for everything wrong” stuff. 
In the interests of trying to find real solutions to this issue I am offering to forget any negative feelings I have had and inviting you to have a real discussion. The offer is still good. But up to you if you want to take it. 

 

[supermike80]

Wow, three VERY long diatribes in response to my post filled with direct headlines and links to videos. And beyond that quite a bit of hostility: “if you object to my posts feel free to report me,” etc. 

Its true I haven’t thought too highly of your contributions to this forum. I think they’re usually very bizarre and I won’t take back anything I’ve written. But I wasn’t doing that this time around. To the contrary, I was inviting you to partake in a normal give and take conversation for once. You actually did raise some interesting points, beyond the tiresome “let’s blame the Democrats for everything wrong” stuff. 
In the interests of trying to find real solutions to this issue I am offering to forget any negative feelings I have had and inviting you to have a real discussion. The offer is still good. But up to you if you want to take it. 

OMG Tim is going to forgive you!!!  How awesome!! How does anyone get by in this forum without his buy off!!!  You sir GG have received high praise!!!

Also...This quote is funny:

beyond the tiresome “let’s blame the Democrats for everything wrong” stuff. 

You see, it's ok for the board judge to blame republicans for everything,  but don't dare you blame democrats!!!

Can GG get like a blue star or something to show he has received the blessing of the board judge and jury on posting?  This is an epic moment!

 

[GordonGekko]

There are 3 other threads with lengthy discussions going on about this subject. Why not join them? A back and forth is far more interesting for most people than long diatribes, no matter how many direct headlines there are. 

VIDEO: Saagar Enjeti: Why Gun Owners DON'T TRUST Government, Liberals May 26, 2022 Breaking Points

Saagar takes a look at the broader, social breakdowns that lead to gun purchases primarily the lack of trust in government and each other that have been brewing in America for half a century

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iArRXahQE7k

******

The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is so that American citizens have the ability to defend themselves against possible government tyranny.

The Founders had very good and very then-current reasons not to trust government institutions.

Saagar Enjeti points out that the same conditions in current times, the pandemic lock downs, school lock downs, vaccine mandates, the riots and looting, Defund The Police/"Bail Reform",  inflation, J6, the Border Crisis, the fuel crisis, etc, etc - the implicit reality is that "You Are On Your Own"

No one is going to come to save you. No one is going to save your family but you.

Enjeti describes the basic reality - If times are good, the country seems stable and prosperous,  and the government is delivering wins for every day working class citizens, then the public and masses are more willing to give up some control. But when there is nothing but chaos and scandal, the insecurity and fear and terror that generates in this "mistrust" spurs people to go out and buy firearms.

Nothing you can say can spin around the fact that, even with mass shootings, gun purchases by civilians have sky rocketed in the last three years and has no signs of letting up. And particularly with minorities and women and first time gun buyers.

The only thing the current Democratic Party has succeeded with in terms of "diversity" is the wide demographic range of people gobbling up guns, and yes even "assault rifles", to defend themselves against all forms of potential but looming tyranny, and yes, possibly even from their own government.

 

[GordonGekko]

OMG Tim is going to forgive you!!!  How awesome!! How does anyone get by in this forum without his buy off!!!  You sir GG have received high praise!!!

Also...This quote is funny:

beyond the tiresome “let’s blame the Democrats for everything wrong” stuff. 

You see, it's ok for the board judge to blame republicans for everything,  but don't dare you blame democrats!!!

Can GG get like a blue star or something to show he has received the blessing of the board judge and jury on posting?  This is an epic moment!

OP-ED: Why The GOP Should Not Support Trump For POTUS 2024 (9/30/21 00:50 PST)

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/800635-op-ed-why-the-gop-should-not-support-trump-for-potus-2024-93021-0050-pst/

Video Evidence Of 2020 Republican Voter/Election Fraud (1/14 14:19 PST)

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/792114-video-evidence-of-2020-republican-voterelection-fraud-114-1419-pst/

*****

What's hilarious is I'm one of the most outspoken Conservatives in the entire PSF ( Probably am a fiscally conservative Libertarian here though, since the radical leftists drove out so many traditional liberals, moderates, independents, and undecideds in all the years I was gone. )

I've started a topic level thread saying the GOP should not support Trump for POTUS 2024.

I'm also the only one to discuss actual voter fraud ( real arrests were made) that benefited a Republican candidate.

I criticize the GOP and Republicans all the time.

When people have asked me to discuss things like "right wing extremists" or other matters that lean towards the hard left perspective, I ask people to start a new thread, invest in it, draw out the topic  and invite me with a ping to share my views. So far, none of taken up that offer.

In general, most of the time, when asked a fair question, ( if I can see it since I have a growing ignore/blocked list), and I believe it's in good faith ( not trolling, gaslighting, sealioning, one of Tim's aliases, etc), most of the time I attempt to give a fair answer.

I don't "blame Democrats" for everything, as Tim suggests. I hold them accountable. The more reasonable I present my arguments, the more I source them, the more I follow up and support them, of course Tim is going to get more and more unhinged about it. It must be frustrating to read through my posts to try to find something to get me banned, anything at all, but then doing that will mean things like facts and data and sources challenge his tribalist cognitive dissonance.

So if you add up all of Tim's posts and include all of his aliases, that's what? Like moving towards a quarter of a million posts? Imagine if those were used to raise the level of discussion. Imagine how many good quality posters wouldn't have been driven away in all the years I was gone.

I'm not here to "own the libs".

I'm here to talk about extreme ownership. Team Blue needs to be accountable for the things they've done and said. If some folks feel that about Team Red, they should go and start their own threads. What's stopping them? What's preventing them from making the choice and effort to raise the level of discussion for the benefit of the liberal/leftist viewpoint? Wouldn't doing that enrich the entire community, whether people agree or not on the actual topics?

It's not my fault I can accomplish in less than 3 thousand total posts compared what Tim couldn't do for how many years and moving towards how many tens upon tens upon tens of thousands of posts.

I've said this before - The kind of world I want to live in will include people who disagree with me.

The remaining radical leftists here, the ones I haven't picked off yet over time, don't seem to share that same sentiment. Here's the question they don't want to ask - What happens when one of their children grows up to face the same kind of intolerance that good old Dad meted out himself against others?  What happens when their own children only get that same level of mercy and "tolerance"?

Our children will inherit the world we leave behind for them. I respect free speech and free will, but I still believe many radical leftists will one day regret the legacy they inflicted upon our Republic.

 

[Sparky Big Time]

I am not sure there has been an actual "debate". To my eyes there is little more than poltical posturing and name calling without tangible action.  The only politicial action is intended to harm the opposing poltical party and not solve anything.

Perhaps this one could result in something tangible, who knows.

 

[parasaurolophus]

No their views shifted because we literally watched a CVS down the street from us get set on fire in front of camera crews while the police stood there. 

Seriously. The democrat response to this has been to try and tell us we didn't actually see these things. 

Solid strategy so far. 

 

[rockaction]

Seriously. The democrat response to this has been to try and tell us we didn't actually see these things. 

Mostly peaceful

Signed, 

2021

And oh yeah, COVID lockdown mattered until George Floyd protests

Also signed, 

2021

 

[parasaurolophus]

Mostly peaceful

Signed, 

2021

And oh yeah, COVID lockdown mattered until George Floyd protests

Also signed, 

2021

Racism is a public health emergency!!!