"Outside the Lines" piece on Tony Mandarich (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

 

[Matt Waldman]

Yeah, this was a well-written story. I like the way the writer ended it. It just goes to show how history can show how foolish our perceptions of that time in the present can be. For instance the point made that people were on Dallas' case for not selecting Mandarich...wow.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Thanks for linking this. What a great piece.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

 

[vandyt]

Great piece of journalism.

We could probably all learn alot from his story.

 

[-baller]

and this is why you don't draft combine stats over the actual person.

 

[Limp Ditka]

and this is why you don't draft combine stats over the actual person.

You must have missed all of the footage they showed of him at Michigan St.

 

[Exfireman_62]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

I thought the same exact thing when i heard that this morning.....

 

[bcr8f]

Yeah, this was a well-written story. I like the way the writer ended it. It just goes to show how history can show how foolish our perceptions of that time in the present can be. For instance the point made that people were on Dallas' case for not selecting Mandarich...wow.

Steroids. Coming out of college he was seen as fast for an o lineman but the moment Kevin Greene ran right around him he was seen for what he was.

 

[-baller]

and this is why you don't draft combine stats over the actual person.

You must have missed all of the footage they showed of him at Michigan St.

college performance doesn't always translate to the pro level if the player has character issues, lack of interest or work ethic, etc.people get too excited by what they see on youtube or espn, but are never there for the personal interviews --- not that you are always going to find out about a player based on the research and interviews, but it's a lot more important than a lot of people seem to think.

 

[Sweet Love]

and this is why you don't draft combine stats over the actual person.

You must have missed all of the footage they showed of him at Michigan St.

college performance doesn't always translate to the pro level if the player has character issues, lack of interest or work ethic, etc.people get too excited by what they see on youtube or espn, but are never there for the personal interviews --- not that you are always going to find out about a player based on the research and interviews, but it's a lot more important than a lot of people seem to think.

I wouldn't put too much into the interview process. I am a headhunter and I can polish a turd in 5 minutes, so that he/she does not bomb an interview. Imagine what a former GM (and they are out there as independent consultants) can do with a player in 2 weeks.

 

[teamramrod]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

 

[Raider Nation]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.

Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?

Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?

Peace

 

[Penguin]

Great piece

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

Clearly closely following the Lions has had an unhealthy effect on you. Nevertheless I will try to answer. To begin, I cannot both shut up and whine. Whinning implies speaking out, though annoyingly. I can't speak out if I am shutting up.I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.Favre did have an addiction. In the throws of that addiction he was able to perform, and he did not denigrate the City nor the fans. His addiction developed out of the game. Not true of Mandrich. Mandrich was a fraud from inception who immediately after taking his money set out to disrupt the team and to insult the City. He lacked the honor to even try to live up to the commitment he made when he entered the draft.I do believe Favre had to also answer for his drug behavior. I also believe he will have to answer for his behavior forcing a crisis in Green Bay last year. He has already paid a price for both. I do think character counts. I was glad to see Mandrich go. I was glad to see Chumura go. I was glad to see Mossy Cade and James Lofton shown the door. I will say, however, that character is more than one or two mistakes by a man. It is how he addresses those mistakes, and I find a large gulf between Favre and Mandrich. The one owned up to his addiction, the other blamed the franchise while draining its resources and returning zero effort, and now, now years latter he speaks of the amends he made, but those amends were not to the team nor the fans, they were to himself. That he sells that as part of a redemption story, and that it is being bought I find offensive. I'm certain, however, that I will survive.As for being a hypocrite and shutting the hell up, I'll chalk that up to a bad day and your ongoing recovery from the Matt Millen years.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

Clearly closely following the Lions has had an unhealthy effect on you. Nevertheless I will try to answer. To begin, I cannot both shut up and whine. Whinning implies speaking out, though annoyingly. I can't speak out if I am shutting up.I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.Favre did have an addiction. In the throws of that addiction he was able to perform, and he did not denigrate the City nor the fans. His addiction developed out of the game. Not true of Mandrich. Mandrich was a fraud from inception who immediately after taking his money set out to disrupt the team and to insult the City. He lacked the honor to even try to live up to the commitment he made when he entered the draft.I do believe Favre had to also answer for his drug behavior. I also believe he will have to answer for his behavior forcing a crisis in Green Bay last year. He has already paid a price for both. I do think character counts. I was glad to see Mandrich go. I was glad to see Chumura go. I was glad to see Mossy Cade and James Lofton shown the door. I will say, however, that character is more than one or two mistakes by a man. It is how he addresses those mistakes, and I find a large gulf between Favre and Mandrich. The one owned up to his addiction, the other blamed the franchise while draining its resources and returning zero effort, and now, now years latter he speaks of the amends he made, but those amends were not to the team nor the fans, they were to himself. That he sells that as part of a redemption story, and that it is being bought I find offensive. I'm certain, however, that I will survive.As for being a hypocrite and shutting the hell up, I'll chalk that up to a bad day and your ongoing recovery from the Matt Millen years.

Didnt Favre play his best while drugged? So did Tony. Tony had his use curtailed by league policies. Otherwise he... And noone can say how long Favre had been using drugs, in all honesty. And you cant listen to Favre on this subject.

My response to the other poster was not a defense of Favre. Is he open to criticism, sure, go about it, it has been covered ad nauseum, but welcome to it. My response was that a stranger to me did, in an offensive way, presume my position and on that assumption label me a hypocrite before even knowing my position.Mandrich has grown from his experience. What I was saying originally is that though he has grown he still fails to see the consequences of his actions. He stated he has made amends for his behavior, which included substantial efforts to denigrate the employer from whom he was taking money. He then stated his amends to football was to try to recover his career. That's fine, but that is not amends to the franchise nor fans he offended against. I was merely noting that his understanding of amends is very different from mine, and, I believe, from what amends actually means. If, for instance, I offend against you, let's say I rob you and crap in your house. On sentencing I say that I am have made amends because after that I did a good deed for your neighbor down the street you would be right to say that is not amends. Amends entails the concept of trying to make the party or parties offended against whole, even when as a pratical matter that is impossible. In my example that might be returning the stolen goods and cleaning your house. Here there was no such attempt. I hope Mandrich continues with his recovery. I wish him well. I do not, however, accept that he has made amends to the pcker nor their fans. I do not really expect him to. i do expect, however, that he not be allowed to claim unchallenged that he has when he has not.

 

[Mark Wimer]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

Wow, that dude is lucky to be alive. Thanks for the link.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.

Its a confusing statement, insofar as Mandarich was drafted by Tom Braatz and Lindy Infante. I've always been thankful for the turn of events that brought Tony Mandarich to Green Bay, leading to the hiring of Ron Wolf two years later, and thereafter, Mike Holmgren, Reggie White, Brett Favre and a Lombardi trophy. Had Braatz drafted Barry Sanders, we likely would have been doomed to years of mediocrity trying to build a team around him, only to be abandoned at the worst possible moment - a woeful fate suffered by our poor neighbors to the East.

 

[mggoilers]

I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.

Its a confusing statement, insofar as Mandarich was drafted by Tom Braatz and Lindy Infante. I've always been thankful for the turn of events that brought Tony Mandarich to Green Bay, leading to the hiring of Ron Wolf two years later, and thereafter, Mike Holmgren, Reggie White, Brett Favre and a Lombardi trophy. Had Braatz drafted Barry Sanders, we likely would have been doomed to years of mediocrity trying to build a team around him, only to be abandoned at the worst possible moment - a woeful fate suffered by our poor neighbors to the East.

Not a Lions fan here, but they had a pretty good run in the 90's. They made a handful of playoff appearances, and I believe made it to an NFC Championship game. The mediocrity re-emerged in the late 90's and Aughts.The woeful fate was continued poor management, and the retirement of Sanders in 1998.

 

[-baller]

Favre did have an addiction. In the throws of that addiction ....

http://instantrimshot.com/

 

[T Bell]

It's been 20 years, but he looks like it's been 40.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Thanks for posting that.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Great video. Thanks for posting. I love the opening line where he says, "Listen steroids work. I wouldn't have taken them if they didn't". I was amazed by how candid and reflective he was in that interview and his personal transformation from then to now.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

Good, sweet Christ, look at that top 5. I'll admit when I'm wrong, I thought Mandarich would kill in the NFL. He was a man among boys in college.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

Good, sweet Christ, look at that top 5. I'll admit when I'm wrong, I thought Mandarich would kill in the NFL. He was a man among boys in college.

He probably would have without the NFL testing policy.The NFL began its steroid testing in the fall of 1987... and suspensions started in 1989... the very year Mandarich came out.

Had he been a pro 5 years earlier the long term difference for him, would likely have been, massive.

Even without the 'roids, I think he would have been a very good player in the NFL if he just hadn't gotten hooked in painkillers.

 

[brutha]

didn't he blow out a knee or something early in his career?

and he did play respectably for the Colts for awhile.

 

[teamramrod]

I was overboard last night. I will admit that. But....

If you want Drug Addict A to repay his salary, Why not Drug Addict B?

I may have missed it and will admit my fault, but when has Favre admitted his failings as much as Tony has?

And please realize that I am a Michigan fan, so when a Spartan fails, I enjoy it, but when I see someone in recovery say here is what I did wrong, i simply say...there but for the grace of God.....

Ok, nuff said. DW...I apologize.

Peace

 

[flapgreen]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

Clearly closely following the Lions has had an unhealthy effect on you. Nevertheless I will try to answer. To begin, I cannot both shut up and whine. Whinning implies speaking out, though annoyingly. I can't speak out if I am shutting up.I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.Favre did have an addiction. In the throws of that addiction he was able to perform, and he did not denigrate the City nor the fans. His addiction developed out of the game. Not true of Mandrich. Mandrich was a fraud from inception who immediately after taking his money set out to disrupt the team and to insult the City. He lacked the honor to even try to live up to the commitment he made when he entered the draft.I do believe Favre had to also answer for his drug behavior. I also believe he will have to answer for his behavior forcing a crisis in Green Bay last year. He has already paid a price for both. I do think character counts. I was glad to see Mandrich go. I was glad to see Chumura go. I was glad to see Mossy Cade and James Lofton shown the door. I will say, however, that character is more than one or two mistakes by a man. It is how he addresses those mistakes, and I find a large gulf between Favre and Mandrich. The one owned up to his addiction, the other blamed the franchise while draining its resources and returning zero effort, and now, now years latter he speaks of the amends he made, but those amends were not to the team nor the fans, they were to himself. That he sells that as part of a redemption story, and that it is being bought I find offensive. I'm certain, however, that I will survive.As for being a hypocrite and shutting the hell up, I'll chalk that up to a bad day and your ongoing recovery from the Matt Millen years.

oof

 

[T Bell]

Mandrich has grown from his experience. What I was saying originally is that though he has grown he still fails to see the consequences of his actions. He stated he has made amends for his behavior, which included substantial efforts to denigrate the employer from whom he was taking money. He then stated his amends to football was to try to recover his career. That's fine, but that is not amends to the franchise nor fans he offended against. I was merely noting that his understanding of amends is very different from mine, and, I believe, from what amends actually means. If, for instance, I offend against you, let's say I rob you and crap in your house. On sentencing I say that I am have made amends because after that I did a good deed for your neighbor down the street you would be right to say that is not amends. Amends entails the concept of trying to make the party or parties offended against whole, even when as a pratical matter that is impossible. In my example that might be returning the stolen goods and cleaning your house. Here there was no such attempt. I hope Mandrich continues with his recovery. I wish him well. I do not, however, accept that he has made amends to the pcker nor their fans. I do not really expect him to. i do expect, however, that he not be allowed to claim unchallenged that he has when he has not.

I agree. The story was fine until the very end when he equated a 12-step "make amends" to returning to the NFL to play for three years with the Colts, and then added that he regretted nothing, including the steroids and the Green Bay years, because all of that's what got him to where he is today. I'm glad that he's improved as a person and is willing to talk about the strange odyssey that he was on, but he's not "made amends".

 

[Mario Kart]

I was overboard last night. I will admit that. But....If you want Drug Addict A to repay his salary, Why not Drug Addict B?I may have missed it and will admit my fault, but when has Favre admitted his failings as much as Tony has?And please realize that I am a Michigan fan, so when a Spartan fails, I enjoy it, but when I see someone in recovery say here is what I did wrong, i simply say...there but for the grace of God.....Ok, nuff said. DW...I apologize.Peace

Um, Favre owned up to his drug addiction after the 1995 (~May 1996 or so) season and told the entire community and world of his addiction while he stood up on a podium in Lambeau Field with his wife, coach, and GM standing behind him. Later that year, drug free, Favre led the Packers into the 1996 season and later to a Superbowl appearance and victory. When did Tony or others do anything to this extent? Paying back salaries of Favre vs. Mandarich... no comparison and you are showing your goggles if you think their is any comparison here.

 

[Adebisi]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

That's a pretty impressive draft. If they could do it over, I'm guessing it would go:1.01 - Deion Sanders

1.02 - Barry Sanders

1.03 - Troy Aikman

1.04 - Derrick Thomas

1.05 - Hart Lee Dykes

 

[sho nuff]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

The "drug addict" "pill popping QB" actually was off the drugs when they won the Super Bowl. HTH.Abnd yes, there is a difference between the addicts...one set the franchise back by sucking and being a complete and total bust of a first round pick...the other played for a long long time, won 3 MVPs, a Super Bowl, and is one of the best QBs of all time.

 

[sho nuff]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

Clearly closely following the Lions has had an unhealthy effect on you. Nevertheless I will try to answer. To begin, I cannot both shut up and whine. Whinning implies speaking out, though annoyingly. I can't speak out if I am shutting up.I'm unclear why I should lick Ron Wolfe's shoes, though I do appreciate the team he was able to build.Favre did have an addiction. In the throws of that addiction he was able to perform, and he did not denigrate the City nor the fans. His addiction developed out of the game. Not true of Mandrich. Mandrich was a fraud from inception who immediately after taking his money set out to disrupt the team and to insult the City. He lacked the honor to even try to live up to the commitment he made when he entered the draft.I do believe Favre had to also answer for his drug behavior. I also believe he will have to answer for his behavior forcing a crisis in Green Bay last year. He has already paid a price for both. I do think character counts. I was glad to see Mandrich go. I was glad to see Chumura go. I was glad to see Mossy Cade and James Lofton shown the door. I will say, however, that character is more than one or two mistakes by a man. It is how he addresses those mistakes, and I find a large gulf between Favre and Mandrich. The one owned up to his addiction, the other blamed the franchise while draining its resources and returning zero effort, and now, now years latter he speaks of the amends he made, but those amends were not to the team nor the fans, they were to himself. That he sells that as part of a redemption story, and that it is being bought I find offensive. I'm certain, however, that I will survive.As for being a hypocrite and shutting the hell up, I'll chalk that up to a bad day and your ongoing recovery from the Matt Millen years.

Didnt Favre play his best while drugged? So did Tony. Tony had his use curtailed by league policies. Otherwise he... And noone can say how long Favre had been using drugs, in all honesty. And you cant listen to Favre on this subject.

Favre won 2 of his 3 MVPs after he went through Rehab...also a Super Bowl.

 

[sho nuff]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

That's a pretty impressive draft. If they could do it over, I'm guessing it would go:1.01 - Deion Sanders

1.02 - Barry Sanders

1.03 - Troy Aikman

1.04 - Derrick Thomas

1.05 - Hart Lee Dykes

WHy would Dallas not take Aikman if they could do it over?

 

[Adebisi]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

That's a pretty impressive draft. If they could do it over, I'm guessing it would go:1.01 - Deion Sanders

1.02 - Barry Sanders

1.03 - Troy Aikman

1.04 - Derrick Thomas

1.05 - Hart Lee Dykes

WHy would Dallas not take Aikman if they could do it over?

Of course they would. I probably should have clarified that I'm guessing that's how it would go strictly in order of who could help some random team the most. My mistake.

 

[TwinTurbo]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

Good, sweet Christ, look at that top 5. I'll admit when I'm wrong, I thought Mandarich would kill in the NFL. He was a man among boys in college.

He probably would have without the NFL testing policy.The NFL began its steroid testing in the fall of 1987... and suspensions started in 1989... the very year Mandarich came out.

Had he been a pro 5 years earlier the long term difference for him, would likely have been, massive.

Even without the 'roids, I think he would have been a very good player in the NFL if he just hadn't gotten hooked in painkillers.

I've always wondered about that. Guys like Mandarich and Boz were absolutely dominant on roids against college competition and humiliating players every week. But they were definitely not the same player off the juice in the NFL. Both of these guys joined the league around the time drug testing started. They were probably forced to either stop using or cut back significantly after entering the league. Steroids turn you into superman. It's a state of mind in addition to the physical gains. Now Mandarich and Boz were not Clark Kent to start out with. They were already good athletes. But they reached Mount Olympus with heavy steroid usage. And without the drugs, they were back in the realm of mere mortals. When you look at the steroid regiment Mandarich was on, this was not just Barry Bonds on the clear. This was an Arnold vs. Lou Ferrigno, Mr. Olympia regiment. He was on the most hardcore stuff you can take (Anadrol, Dianbol, etc) and he was taking a ton of it. There is no supplement, or vitamin, or workout routine, or Chuck Norris machine that can take you to the same level that these powerful drugs will take you. So yes Mandarich probably could have carved out an average career if he didn't abuse painkillers. He certainly did ok in Indy. I just don't think he would have been elite. He didn't have the work ethic and there were no shortcuts without the roids.

 

[Raider Nation]

For any of you who are in front of the TV, the NFL Network is showing the "Top 10 Draft Busts" of all time right now.

Mandarich is coming up soon, in the #2 spot.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?Peace

And anyone who says Favre "kicked" his habit with a rehab stint is reaching. It is what it is though and no one knows but Favre and his close family (hopefully) what the truth really is.Maybe it's just me but I dont believe Favre all sudden kicked the pills after a rehab stint yet still managed to play through it all so miraculously.I will say.. there's no way I can honestly, 100% without a doubt know who did what or when it was. Its the NFL.. millions of dollars and a short term career for the majority who are lucky enough to play. I do not FAULT nor condone taking drugs to achieve what these men do to stay in the league but I understand it.

 

[Mario Kart]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?

And anyone who says Favre "kicked" his habit with a rehab stint is reaching. It is what it is though and no one knows but Favre and his close family (hopefully) what the truth really is.Maybe it's just me but I dont believe Favre all sudden kicked the pills after a rehab stint yet still managed to play through it all so miraculously.I will say.. there's no way I can honestly, 100% without a doubt know who did what or when it was. Its the NFL.. millions of dollars and a short term career for the majority who are lucky enough to play. I do not FAULT nor condone taking drugs to achieve what these men do to stay in the league but I understand it.

Wow, you two could not be any more ignorant of the matter. I hope the alcohol is talking tonight for the poster I am quoting because his comments are asinine. So, two teams, countless people from coaches, staff, players have kept a secret that Favre is/was still popping pills during his game streak? Never heard that one before.Rehab does much for many people. It helps get rid of bad habits and changes lifestyles to boot. Is it any wonder why Favre lost some friends after he went to rehab? He changed who he hung around with as well... and for the better.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

Yo Tony, you want to make amends to the Packers you can start by returning your salary. How is playing for the Colts making amends to the Packers or to the Green Bay community?

Ummmm....Trying not to get kicked out of the forums. But Ron Wolf picked him. Shut up and whine to him. Lick his shoes and take your Lombardi Trophy, garnered by a pill popping QB. So shut the hell up hypocrite, or tomorrow post a response asking Brett "Jesus" Farve to pay back his salary.Or admit that if a drug addict wins a Super Bowl, then it is ok?Answer it. Come on.....Is there a difference between a good addict and a bad? Or is the Super Bowl all that matters to you?

And anyone who says Favre "kicked" his habit with a rehab stint is reaching. It is what it is though and no one knows but Favre and his close family (hopefully) what the truth really is.Maybe it's just me but I dont believe Favre all sudden kicked the pills after a rehab stint yet still managed to play through it all so miraculously.I will say.. there's no way I can honestly, 100% without a doubt know who did what or when it was. Its the NFL.. millions of dollars and a short term career for the majority who are lucky enough to play. I do not FAULT nor condone taking drugs to achieve what these men do to stay in the league but I understand it.

Wow, you two could not be any more ignorant of the matter. I hope the alcohol is talking tonight for the poster I am quoting because his comments are asinine. So, two teams, countless people from coaches, staff, players have kept a secret that Favre is/was still popping pills during his game streak? Never heard that one before.Rehab does much for many people. It helps get rid of bad habits and changes lifestyles to boot. Is it any wonder why Favre lost some friends after he went to rehab? He changed who he hung around with as well... and for the better.

So.. a guy that obviously has/had an ADDICTIVE personality with multiple threats (from alcohol to pain pills) all of the sudden goes cold turkey yet still plays with immense pain on many occasions and yet expects the general public to believe he's totally clean? I question the rationalism of your thinking friend.Guy not only abused "drugs" but was a shady jerk to boot.. sorry If Im not totally insane to believe he was miraculously cured of his basic genetic nature while still playing in the NFL...

 

[Mario Kart]

So.. a guy that obviously has/had an ADDICTIVE personality with multiple threats (from alcohol to pain pills) all of the sudden goes cold turkey yet still plays with immense pain on many occasions and yet expects the general public to believe he's totally clean? I question the rationalism of your thinking friend.Guy not only abused "drugs" but was a shady jerk to boot.. sorry If Im not totally insane to believe he was miraculously cured of his basic genetic nature while still playing in the NFL...

What? Cold turkey means to stop with no intervention. Favre went to rehab for some time, on his own, in the "off season", and came back better than before.Your rationalization is more far off than mine is, friend. In a community like Green Bay, if Favre was still doing, it would have been known. How do I know? I lived there for nine years, all during Favre's time there. I heard the local reports daily and something would have been tipped off. Your rationalization is wanting others to believe dozens, if not hundreds, of people would keep quiet about Favre and "his drugs." Are you kidding me? Not even the Federal government can keep a secret like that. Also, your assertion that he was a complete jerk is completely lacking any foundation at all. He was addicted to Vicodin... one drug, not many like you want to believe. When he gave that up he also gave up alcohol and while he drank alcohol, he was never a two fisted slobber like you are trying to make him out to be.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

So.. a guy that obviously has/had an ADDICTIVE personality with multiple threats (from alcohol to pain pills) all of the sudden goes cold turkey yet still plays with immense pain on many occasions and yet expects the general public to believe he's totally clean? I question the rationalism of your thinking friend.

Guy not only abused "drugs" but was a shady jerk to boot.. sorry If Im not totally insane to believe he was miraculously cured of his basic genetic nature while still playing in the NFL...

What? Cold turkey means to stop with no intervention. Favre went to rehab for some time, on his own, in the "off season", and came back better than before.Your rationalization is more far off than mine is, friend. In a community like Green Bay, if Favre was still doing, it would have been known. How do I know? I lived there for nine years, all during Favre's time there. I heard the local reports daily and something would have been tipped off. Your rationalization is wanting others to believe dozens, if not hundreds, of people would keep quiet about Favre and "his drugs." Are you kidding me? Not even the Federal government can keep a secret like that.

Also, your assertion that he was a complete jerk is completely lacking any foundation at all. He was addicted to Vicodin... one drug, not many like you want to believe. When he gave that up he also gave up alcohol and while he drank alcohol, he was never a two fisted slobber like you are trying to make him out to be.

Realistically dont believe you have anymore insight than anyone else here so I'm going to believe what I want as will you it appears. Favre WAS a great NFL QB at one time.. that's all I know.

He came off to me as a self righteous jerk personally that thought he was above his team on many occasions with addiction problems that he may or may not have addressed. None of my business nor concern. I regress.

 

[Mario Kart]

He came off to me as a self righteous jerk personally that thought he was above his team on many occasions with addiction problems that he may or may not have addressed. None of my business nor concern. I regress.

Yes, circa 1995. Your contention that he is/was a drug user after rehab is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous than mine and just about everyone who followed the NFL after 1995, that he is not a user. I hope you sober up tomorrow and don't have a hang over too badly. Drunk posting is fun sometimes.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

He came off to me as a self righteous jerk personally that thought he was above his team on many occasions with addiction problems that he may or may not have addressed. None of my business nor concern. I regress.

Yes, circa 1995. Your contention that he is/was a drug user after rehab is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous than mine and just about everyone who followed the NFL after 1995, that he is not a user. I hope you sober up tomorrow and don't have a hang over too badly. Drunk posting is fun sometimes.

Yea, dangling his retirement to Packers management till after the draft for years isn't selfish at all.. Team Oriented guy no doubt. I rest my case.

 

[Mario Kart]

He came off to me as a self righteous jerk personally that thought he was above his team on many occasions with addiction problems that he may or may not have addressed. None of my business nor concern. I regress.

Yes, circa 1995. Your contention that he is/was a drug user after rehab is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous than mine and just about everyone who followed the NFL after 1995, that he is not a user. I hope you sober up tomorrow and don't have a hang over too badly. Drunk posting is fun sometimes.

Yea, dangling his retirement to Packers management till after the draft for years isn't selfish at all.. Team Oriented guy no doubt. I rest my case.

Uh, huh. Go search the boards for discussion on that matter. To summarize those discussions... the media was 99% of the time at fault for beginning, maintaining, and continuing the retirement speculation. But, good luck with that.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

He came off to me as a self righteous jerk personally that thought he was above his team on many occasions with addiction problems that he may or may not have addressed. None of my business nor concern. I regress.

Yes, circa 1995. Your contention that he is/was a drug user after rehab is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous than mine and just about everyone who followed the NFL after 1995, that he is not a user. I hope you sober up tomorrow and don't have a hang over too badly. Drunk posting is fun sometimes.

Yea, dangling his retirement to Packers management till after the draft for years isn't selfish at all.. Team Oriented guy no doubt. I rest my case.

Uh, huh. Go search the boards for discussion on that matter. To summarize those discussions... the media was 99% of the time at fault for beginning, maintaining, and continuing the retirement speculation. But, good luck with that.

Keep wearing that Favre Jets.. I mean Packers Jersey underneath those Pee-Jays brotha. I dont fault you.

 

[Mario Kart]

Keep wearing that Favre Jets.. I mean Packers Jersey underneath those Pee-Jays brotha. I dont fault you.

I suggest the decaf or water instead.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

Keep wearing that Favre Jets.. I mean Packers Jersey underneath those Pee-Jays brotha. I dont fault you.

I suggest the decaf or water instead.

check-mate. We're done here.Loved that Tony Mandarich piece though could've been done AGAIN 5-10 years ago.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

LINK

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

1989 NFL Draft

1.01 - Troy Aikman, Dallas

1.02 - Tony Mandarich, G.B.

1.03 - Barry Sanders, Detroit

1.04 - Derrick Thomas, K.C.

1.05 - Deion Sanders, Atlanta

That's a pretty impressive draft. If they could do it over, I'm guessing it would go:1.01 - Deion Sanders

1.02 - Barry Sanders

1.03 - Troy Aikman

1.04 - Derrick Thomas

1.05 - Hart Lee Dykes

WHy would Dallas not take Aikman if they could do it over?

Sanders behind that line and he runs for a million yards a year