Goat Herders
Footballguy
Talk about looking for a silver lining. Just for kicks - Are you encouraged by the Steelers dirth of DBs to cover Owens twice a year?Just hackin'HERD
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Owens is a Raven (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mbuehner
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I don't see why this is an impossibility 
buck naked
Footballguy
Well, please please please post those ball distribution charts before the start of our drafts!! You will be my hero.
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
I think Ray Ray keeps T.O. in line and keeps the bulls**t to a managable minimum. Boller's #'s go up, T.O.'s are down from his best years, but still rank around 8-10 for WRs. Mostly I'm glad that he's not going to the Eagles. I think Smoot and Springs are a good DB pair, but I have no desire to see them face T.O. twice a year.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
I see that some folks here are surprised and chagrined by the trade, but this has been obvious to me for quite awhile. Baltimore is the one place that made by far the most sense for him to go. On Feb 10 I said (in response to the "Where Will TO End Up Playing in 2004?" poll):
LINK
"He goes to the Ravens. They have a hole at WR1 and Owens would provide a nice go to guy for young Boller. Ray Lewis is pushing hard for him, and Ray has influence.
Reid will want no part of either his age or attitude.
Mora in Atl has seen his act in SF and won't want him either, IMO.
Min makes no sense. TO wants to be the go to guy wherever he ends up."
People seem to think SF could have gotten more than they did for him, but the truth is they would have released him before he ever put on a 49er jersey again. Living here in the Bay Area and getting to know the Walsh/Donohue thought processes over time, there was zero chance TO was staying. TO has been a big, big distraction and embarassment on this team for a long time, and his talent/stats/whatever can never make up for the cancerous effect he has had here. I suppose some people may not understand this, but a player's playing ability is just a part of what makes him a valuable part of an effective team. He burned his bridges here, and it's good riddance to bad news as far as SF is concerned.
He's Baltimore's problem now, and there's a chance he won't be a problem at all. A change of scenery may be beneficial to all. There's also a chance he will be a jerk again in a year's time, but only time will tell.
LINK
"He goes to the Ravens. They have a hole at WR1 and Owens would provide a nice go to guy for young Boller. Ray Lewis is pushing hard for him, and Ray has influence.
Reid will want no part of either his age or attitude.
Mora in Atl has seen his act in SF and won't want him either, IMO.
Min makes no sense. TO wants to be the go to guy wherever he ends up."
People seem to think SF could have gotten more than they did for him, but the truth is they would have released him before he ever put on a 49er jersey again. Living here in the Bay Area and getting to know the Walsh/Donohue thought processes over time, there was zero chance TO was staying. TO has been a big, big distraction and embarassment on this team for a long time, and his talent/stats/whatever can never make up for the cancerous effect he has had here. I suppose some people may not understand this, but a player's playing ability is just a part of what makes him a valuable part of an effective team. He burned his bridges here, and it's good riddance to bad news as far as SF is concerned.
He's Baltimore's problem now, and there's a chance he won't be a problem at all. A change of scenery may be beneficial to all. There's also a chance he will be a jerk again in a year's time, but only time will tell.
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SuperGreen
Footballguy
i agree with most all of this...not to mention that cincy, cleveland, and pittsburgh secondaries are not exactly daunting.his yards may not be as high as you are projecting, but touchdown-wise he will be fine.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
I wish I could get them. But Billick (and Walsh) are big supporters about predetermined ball distributions.In the early 80s, Bill Walsh's 'West Coast' offense was not actually about the quick-read, short slant pattern, passing offense. On the contrary, Walsh believed that ball distribution was the key; Dwight Clark needs to touch the ball 6 times, Jerry Rice needs to touch the ball 8 times, Roger Craig 20 times and so on and so on. So Bill Walsh started to go to the "quick slant" or "short possession" patterns with his wide receivers because it was a high percentage play to complete the pass and get the ball in the hands of the wide receiver. Consequently, Walsh liked the screen pass as another option to get the ball to his running backs, the reverse as an extra option to get the ball to his wide receivers and so forth.Bill Walsh and Brian Billick did write a book together and I am sure Billick and Walsh talked quite a bit about ball distribution.*** This is evident by the 1998 Vikings. Obviously the deep bomb-chuck-it-up pattern is not in the 'perceived' west coast offense, but Billick used it quite a bit with Moss because that was Moss' strength. Going into each game Billick had a predetermined number of 'bombs' to Moss in the gameplan. For the most part, Billick usually came through and that is one reason why Moss liked Billick so much.The BlueOnion
Sack-Religious.
Footballguy
Wasn't TO's big beef in SF that the offense was too conservative though? Yes Boller has an arm, and TO now gives them a true #1 WR. But, with a very good D and the presumption that Jamal plays this season I just can't see the Ravens running a wide open offense that would be to TO's liking. I do think that Ray Lewis and Billick should be able to control him to some degree, but I can see another blowup on the horizon.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Boller was playing better when he got hurt last year. While I would rather have seen him play the entire year, it may not, in the long run, have been such a bad thing for him to watch from the sidelines the 2nd half of the season. I think he was going to be much better (relatively speaking) this year anyway.
WadeGarrett22
Footballguy
I can't stop laughing about this. Baltimore is doomed. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
The baltimore offense is fairly "conservative" overall in that they run a ton, but when they do decide to pass, it is not conservative at all. The passes are designed to get the big play. There are not many 5 yard hitches in the baltimore game plan. Furthermore, Baltimore has shown a willingness to go to one receiver over and over and over until the defense shows they can stop him. Think Todd heap early last year, and marcus robinson later. The other factor to consider...if you had Travis "Hands of Stone" Taylor, Frank "Am I Retired Yet?" Sanders, and Marcus "Is it still 1999?" Robinson as your top WRs, wouldn't YOU run a conservative offense? I would hope part of the reason for getting a playmaking WR is so they can run plays that allow him to make plays.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
:rotflmao: Anyone wonder how long before TO will start thinking of halcyon days of Garcia-to-Owens?
WadeGarrett22
Footballguy
How is this an excellent move by the Ravens? Adding a cancer to your team is considered positive?
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
Neither... I wonder what TO's going to think when they tell him:"No, you'll just run out on the field with the rest of the team...we're doing the individual introductions of the Defense so Ray-Ray can do his dance at the end."
Koya
Footballguy
He is no longer on a team with a Qb he is in constant conflict with, nor is he on a team with a weak organization (who is really calling the shots out in SF now anyways?). Billick wont take Owens s**t for one. He will bench him or even Keyshawn him if necessary as B Mores biggest asset is still their D - not Owens. Second, Ray Lewis, who has lobbied for TO, will make sure that TO will buy into their team concept. He might still be brash and annoying to other teams, but I bet he is a damn good player in that locker room under the watchful eyes of Newsome, Billuck and Ray Ray.I agree that on many teams TO would be a major distraction but that simply wont be the case in Bal.
bostonfred2
Footballguy
How does anyone project Baltimore's offense right now? Jamal the injury risk criminal 2000 yard rusher may be suspended for a year or go to jail, Owens the big 3 WR may have the first year receiver hangover, Heap the big three TE just became the #3 option on the team, and the team may stick with its current QBBC or get a FA QB.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
First things first, Lewis is free on bail and the trial is supposedly (if it goes to trial) not going to take place until after the 2004 season, so JLew, "2000 yard back" will be chugging along just as he did in 2003. Owens, while I don't see coming close to his standard numbers, is still a massive upgrade for that team. His seasonal averages approach what the entire BAL WR corps put up last year. Boller won't have to be stellar from a fantasy perspective for the Ravens to be an excellent real NFL team, he just needs to manage the game and having TO on the field makes his job A LOT easier. The real question becomes can TO stomach being a decoy sometimes, which is what will and has to happen for the Ravens to win a lot of games in 2004.
WadeGarrett22
Footballguy
He thought Garcia couldn't get him the ball and your arguing Kyle Boller? :rotflmao: It would make sense for them to pay him all that money and then 'pull a Keyshawn' on him? Did you just write that?Ray's influence won't be a factor when TO starts whining about not getting the ball enough.Billick and TO will be fighting over who has the bigger ego.This is not good a good move by Baltimore.
The_Man
Footballguy
As someone who sat in stupefication at the Titans-Ravens playoff game last year, as Tennessee put 9 and sometimes 10 men in the box (which the Ravens allowed them to do by coming out in their standard 2-RB, 2-TE, 1 WR set) and shut Jamal down, I couldn't disagree more.Teams are going to have to pick their poison with Baltimore now. Play 8 men in the box, and either single cover Owens or cover Heap with an LB, or play 7 in the box and let Jamal pulverize you for 5 yards per carry.What Jamal did in the last quarter of the 2003 regular season as opponents stacked the line was incredible. How do you think the Anthony Wright-Marcus Robinson connection averaged 75 yards and 1.2 TDs per game over the last 5 weeks of the seaons? Because Robinson was single-covered on EVERY PLAY.The 3-headed monster of Jamal, Heap and Owens is going to make the Ravens a tough team to defend (and a tough team to figure out, fantasy wise).
WadeGarrett22
Footballguy
Blah, blah, blah...they still have a rookie QB throwing the ball!
Goat Herders
Footballguy
..who will now have a WR worth a damn and a QB coach (Fassell) to help him out....Carry on.HERD
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guderian
Footballguy
I agree. The big concern defenses will have with TO is not necessarily his receiving ability, but his ability to generate Yards After the Catch lest he take a 6 yard slant another 80 yards. Even teams with a "shut down" corner won't be able to leave the corner on an island and stack the line against Jamal.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
I see Boller being a decent QB2 who gets better as the year goes on. Most of my optimism has less to do with Boller and more to do with Fassell and Owens. Last year, the box was loaded with 8 or 9 guys at a time. When the Ravens DIDN'T run, Boller was looking at 2 or 3 linebackers coming at him by virtue of them already bolling through the line. TO's Affect:Boller now has a WR that can get mad yardage after the catch. Why is this important? Because a 30 yard reception can be either Randy Moss downfield, or can be TO catching a 5 yard slant and taking off down the field. Since Boller is still young, they aren't going tobe winging it downfield a ton, which is fine because TO is not that kind of WR. I think Boller's yardage numbers will benefit greatly by having Owens and Heap as targets. His TD #s? Maybe not so much. But then again, until last season, Jamal wasn't exactly a TD machine. Billick's going to call the plays that get them 6 points when they get in the redzone. I'd be willing to bet a greater proportion of those will be to TO or a single-covered Todd Heap then last year.Fassell's Affect:Call me a moron, but I really like the influence Fassell has on his QBs. Its hard to describe, except to say that he seems to put them in a position to make statistically advantageous decisions. Kerry Collins - the same Kerry Collins that looked like a washout prior to being in New York - racked up ridiculous yardage. Granted, he's had some nice targets, but come on...he's KERRY FRIGGIN' Collins. I don't know what the numbers were in '03, but in '02, Collins had 62 passes longer then 20 yards if I recall correctly. If I had to put my money on why he was a yardage monster, I'd say it had more to do with Fassell then Collins.Needless to say, I think Boller gets into respectable QB2 territory and he should get better as the year goes on and he continues to "learn".HERD
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Not when you factor in the costs of the 29th pick versus TO.
<--this face is a steeler fan
Koya
Footballguy
(1) TO's reasons for hating Garcia ran far deeper than whether or not TO got enough looks. Additionally TO wanted a QB who could chuck it deep. (2) First - Pay him wht money? We do not know what restructuring may or may not take place. It will not be 18 Mill up front, trust me. If TO wants to sit, he sits and wont get paid at all. Bal wont depend upon him nearly as much as they did in SF where he was by far their top player the last few years.(3) You dont seem to know much about Ray if you do not think he will be a significant influence on TO. TO will be a part of this team. This team will not follow and react to the whims of TO.Great, great move by Baltimore. Their one glaring hole is filled - so long as Boller lives up to the hype and continues to progress.
Koya
Footballguy
Very true... Baltimore couldnt pass it short because their guys had poor hands and not much ability after the catch - so it would be run, run run chuck. Now you have a QB with a BIG year of experience and one of the better WR's in the league.
I LOVE how many people say this is a bad trade for Baltimore. Must be very bitter divisional rivals. Sorry Pitt and Cleveland... as if you had a chance before! (I still like Hines Ward though)
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