Wait...so two RBs is "a lot?" Portis was traded by a coach who thought he was a genius who could plug anyone into his backfield and he'd still win.Ad for Dillon, I'm not even sure he was traded-I thought he signed in NE as a free agent? If he did get traded, I doubt it was before he played out his rookie contract. He was going into his 8th year in the league when he became a Patriot. I don't think his rookie contract was an 8 year deal, and if it was, I doubt it never got renegotiated.
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Panthers may lock up DeAngelo Williams with contract extension (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
Rock Hill Herald Panthers beat writer Darin Gantt told me this morning when I asked what he thought of Pasquarelli's report:
n20
Footballguy
Obviously where there is smoke there is fire (most of the time). Looks like DWilly might be locked down as a Panther but I'm not sure why he wouldn't want to break the bank on what could be his last chance at a blockbuster contract. Does he think Carolina is a championship contender? Doubtful. Does he think Stewie is actually extending his career (which he might very well be doing)? No idea but if I were him I'd be looking at this contract opportunity as the biggest one I'll see the rest of my life. Time to get PAID.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Westbrook could be a good compliment to Stewart imo. Use the firepower you gain by downgrading from Williams to Westbrook to strengthen your team elsewhere (not to mention the money you save by not extending him). The problem is finding a buyer willing to pay market value, they could be forced to keep him (which is not a bad option either).
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
n20
Footballguy
Ok, let's say Carolina has competition for the division from New Orleans and Atlanta... that's realistic, right? So they're probably looking at a wild card spot but still have to beat out at least one team from the NFC North or NFC East. What I'm saying is that it could happen but why would you sacrifice your one shot at a monster contract for that? If Carolina doesn't have a winning season this year Fox is out and build up of the team changes completely; Williams would be wise to see how Carolina does this season, play out his contract and see what the market may offer and then resign. Unless he's worried about getting hurt or (as others have pointed out) just loves Stewie and the Panthers more than we could ever imagine.scrumptrulescent said:
BigJim®
Footballguy
That's fairly high stakes gambling for an NFL team. I don't think you bring in a vet who has ongoing knee issues compounded by concussions, and expcet to have a guy to turn to if your younger guy gets hurt (or fails to recover from existing injuries). The Panthers will be heavily reliant on the running game to take heat off of Moore. To me, Westbrook is significantly limited in situations where it makes sense for a team to sign him (i.e. reliable RB starter, only needed for 3rd down duties to reduce his own likelihood of injury). Of course, in those situations his asking price is probably more than a team would want to spend, which explains why he remains unsigned.39407 said:Westbrook could be a good compliment to Stewart imo. Use the firepower you gain by downgrading from Williams to Westbrook to strengthen your team elsewhere (not to mention the money you save by not extending him). The problem is finding a buyer willing to pay market value, they could be forced to keep him (which is not a bad option either).bicycle_seat_sniffer said:39407 said:
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yes, the trash heap is right where capable RBs who are familiar with a team's playbook hang out.
BigJim®
Footballguy
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
DWill resigning with the Panthers would be both good and bad I think. Bad in the sense that he won't have any monster seasons where he puts up top 3 numbers. Good in the sense that I think it does extend his career a bit and he gets to stay with the Panthers and their dominant running game. So while I don't see anymore 1500+ yards, 20 TD seasons in him, I see 1,200+ yards with around 10 TD's for the next 3-5 years.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Like I said in another post, they are joined at the hip. As far as new contracts are concerned, neither will be asked to sign any singing contracts anytime soon.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I can't fathom a guy as talented as Williams being content as a RBBC member for his entire career. I don't know the man, so I won't say it's not possible, but I have trouble wrapping my head around it.
He was slow on to the scene because of Fox/Foster, then immediately had Stewart to deal with. If had his skills, I'd want to see what I could do as the "no questions asked" primary back, even if the money was equal.
He was slow on to the scene because of Fox/Foster, then immediately had Stewart to deal with. If had his skills, I'd want to see what I could do as the "no questions asked" primary back, even if the money was equal.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
From a dollars and cents view, being part of a RBBC with Stewart may just prolong his career,giving him more earning power over more years.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
If a 27 year old RB's primary concern is extending his career, he's a very unusual cat. Again, not saying it's not possible, or even a legit issue. Just saying if I'm 27, in my prime, and as talented as this guy is, I'm looking for an opportunity to maximize my potential. I'm not worried about a couple hundred k when I'm basically used up 4 or 5 years from now.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
As a Deangelo owner, I hope you're wrong. I'm hoping for 250 carry, 1500 total yard, 15 TD seasons from him. And we know there's potential for more (2008)......even with Stewart.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
It seems like your point is that Dwill may not be content being part of a RBBC.I haven't heard anything from him about not wanting to be teamed up in the backfield with Stewart.As to your point of losing out on a couple of hundred K, by extending his career in a RBBC, I would say that it would be much more than this.If he can extend his career by 2 seasons by sharing carries with Stewart, which is not a stretch, imo,then this could put an extra 8-10 MIL minimum in his pocket. When you look at retiring in your early 30s,10 more MIL in the bank is pretty substantial.
omally
Footballguy
He was slow on the scene, because he wasn't ready to be a starter when he was a rookie or even in his second year. Williams has been the primary back the last two seasons. He plays on a run first team and he genuinely enjoys sharing with Stewart. I don't see how that isn't a good situation for him. A large number of other NFL teams also use RBBC's. Sure things could change if Fox gets fired after the season, but if they bring in a coach such as Cowher, the philosphy won't change. If both sides want a contract extension, I'm sure the Panthers would give Williams a lucrative one.
Jerry Lawler
Footballguy
A number of you have made good points about the importance of cashing in on a big FA contract for a RB. However, that contract is far from a sure thing. Consider the following:
- He would be an excellent candidate for a franchise tag in 2011 (assuming the NFL and franchise tags still exist in 2011). That would make him a 29 year old RB with plenty of mileage. Far from an ideal free agent signing.
- The possibility of a lockout in 2011 makes a big signing bonus check in 2010 an extremely valuable commodity.
- An NFL player, especially at RB, always must consider cashing in while they're healthy and productive, because one injury can ruin a RB's market value. The presence of a talented backup like Stewart can also threaten a player's value, though I expect Williams to continue to outplay Stewart.
- If Matt Moore plays anything like the way he did last December, I think the Panthers will be a Super Bowl contender. Williams might be feeling the same way.
- He would be an excellent candidate for a franchise tag in 2011 (assuming the NFL and franchise tags still exist in 2011). That would make him a 29 year old RB with plenty of mileage. Far from an ideal free agent signing.
- The possibility of a lockout in 2011 makes a big signing bonus check in 2010 an extremely valuable commodity.
- An NFL player, especially at RB, always must consider cashing in while they're healthy and productive, because one injury can ruin a RB's market value. The presence of a talented backup like Stewart can also threaten a player's value, though I expect Williams to continue to outplay Stewart.
- If Matt Moore plays anything like the way he did last December, I think the Panthers will be a Super Bowl contender. Williams might be feeling the same way.
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
I am a DeAngelo owner as well so I hope for the same. I just think it will be harder for him to do. Stewart is a top 10 back in the league talent wise, so I think he gets a bigger part of the workload next year and in future years. I do think, however, that there is a good chance of Stewart missing significant time at some point (I know he has never missed games, but he is constantly dinged up) and that would push DWill's numbers up big time.
az_prof
Footballguy
He could be worried about becoming a FA the year of a lockout, a lockout that is sounding more and more likely. If that happens, then he would be one year older the following year when a team might sign him and he will have lost out on a year of salary. Well, actually, now that I think about, now sure if players get paid at all in event of a lockout. I suppose he would at least get his gauranteed signing bonus up front this year, which would be money in the bank during the holdout.
Great stuff here, points about the franchise tag and lockout only add to his incentive to re-sign. I totally agree about the Panthers level of play in December. They completely humiliated the Giants during the last game in Giants Stadium. If Delhomme doesnt implode vs. Arizona, who knows what would have happened in the 08-09 playoffs? Not sure why the Panthers are being dismissed as a real contender by some.
VaCatFan
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...ity-has-limits/
Not necessarily relevant to his extension, but kinda shows you that he has a great relationship with Stewart.
Not necessarily relevant to his extension, but kinda shows you that he has a great relationship with Stewart.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This is why the Panthers flounder around in mediocrity. They've got serious needs but continual load up on only running back. It would be different if this philosophy ever bore fruit, but it hasn't. Carolina gets into the playoffs but they are not a complete team and they don't last.
BigJim®
Footballguy
honda
Instinctive
Footballguy
Where do they have need?Strong OLine2 DEs with some sizable potential.Great running gameGreat WR in SSmith, could use a nice WR2Strong young QB in Matt Moore, who looked very good last season when he played.Good LB corps led by BeasonMaybe some DB help? Unfamiliar with their secondary, but if that's it...there is a draft this season...
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Interior defensive line is a major weakness. They have a massive hole at DE with Peppers gone and the run defense will suffer as much as or more than the pass rush. If Brown doesn't develop, DE is a major weakness like DT. LB is solid although they could use a 3rd to go with Beason and Davis. Davis is coming off a torn ACL, so he will probably struggle for the first half of the year. Marshall did not get a first round tender and it makes me wonder if he will be back. If he leaves, DB is a weakness. WR other than Smith is a major weakness. They need a WR2 bad and probably a WR3 too. Moore played well, but he is still a question mark. I see quite a few holes. A lot depends on how fast Davis recovers and the development of Brown at DE and Moore. I see a .500 team at best.Instinctive said:
Cassius
Footballguy
The Panthers were $15 million under the salary cap in 2009. That's with Julius Peppers counting as $19.1 million and Delhomme counting as $8.5 million.
Please stop pretending that re-signing DeAngello Williams means that Carolina has to stay a "mediocre" team just because you have Jonathan Stewart on your fantasy team.
Seriously.
Please stop pretending that re-signing DeAngello Williams means that Carolina has to stay a "mediocre" team just because you have Jonathan Stewart on your fantasy team.
Seriously.
VaCatFan
Footballguy
Interior defensive line is a major weakness. They have a massive hole at DE with Peppers gone and the run defense will suffer as much as or more than the pass rush. If Brown doesn't develop, DE is a major weakness like DT. LB is solid although they could use a 3rd to go with Beason and Davis. Davis is coming off a torn ACL, so he will probably struggle for the first half of the year. Marshall did not get a first round tender and it makes me wonder if he will be back. If he leaves, DB is a weakness. WR other than Smith is a major weakness. They need a WR2 bad and probably a WR3 too. Moore played well, but he is still a question mark.
I see quite a few holes. A lot depends on how fast Davis recovers and the development of Brown at DE and Moore. I see a .500 team at best.
We dropped Kemo at DT who wasn't recovering well from achilles surgery and Lewis who was doing ok but not great and getting older. The DT's at the end of the year, weren't spectacular, but held their own against teams like Minnesota and the Giants (won't count New Orleans because they left a lot of starters out). Signing Ed Johnson to replace Lewis probably covers that spot and we may take a look at another DT in the draft. At DE, Brayton returns as a good run stopper and decent pass rusher (believe he had 5 sacks last year). Brown has another year to grow and get stronger and Charles Johnson is starting to show promise as another good but not great DE. Hilee Taylor taken a couple of years ago is a pass rushing specialist. Whether or not he takes the next step up is the question. I can see another DE drafted and possibly one picked up in FA. They won't be a great defensive line, but not the bottom either.
As to the LB's, Beason is the heart of the defense. Davis is coming off ACL surgery, but all reports are that he's coming along nicely and is looking good (already started running a couple weeks ago). SLB Na'il Diggs was released, but Dan Connor (3rd rd draft pick with 1st rd grading) should fill that slot. If he doesn't cut it, James Anderson is back who played the last couple of weeks and did relatively well.
The defensive backfield is doing ok as well. A lot of folks in Carolina wouldn't mind seeing someone pick up Marshall and taking the 2nd. Marshall is a decent player, but his position 2 years ago is that he wants to be the highest paid DB in the league and that hasn't appeared to have changed much. With Captain Munnerlyn, Sherrod Martin, and CJ Wilson, Carolina has a decent coverage should he leave. That leaves Chris Gamble on the other side with Chris Harris at SS and Charles Godfrey at FS.
Moore played well enough at the end of 07 and 09 to get his shot. I don't think he'll be handed the starting job, but I think he wins it easily unless he really bombs.
WR is definitely a question mark and needs to be answered. The interesting thing was to see Jarrett actually play well with someone other than Delhomme under center. Moore doesn't lock onto Smitty the way Jake did which bodes well for the team. He likes to go to the other WR's and TE's as well. Probably one of the first two picks in the draft goes to WR and possibly 2 out of the first 3.
Most of Carolina's moves this year appear to be a push to get younger and get those players playing time as well as reducing salary. This makes a lot of sense for 2011 should the cap be reduced. Remember, JR Richardson is on the owners finance committee, so he may be preparing the team for the future. Also, Carolina should be in for a much easier schedule this year as well. I believe they played a top 3 schedule last year with over half of the games against teams that made the playoffs.
I see quite a few holes. A lot depends on how fast Davis recovers and the development of Brown at DE and Moore. I see a .500 team at best.
We dropped Kemo at DT who wasn't recovering well from achilles surgery and Lewis who was doing ok but not great and getting older. The DT's at the end of the year, weren't spectacular, but held their own against teams like Minnesota and the Giants (won't count New Orleans because they left a lot of starters out). Signing Ed Johnson to replace Lewis probably covers that spot and we may take a look at another DT in the draft. At DE, Brayton returns as a good run stopper and decent pass rusher (believe he had 5 sacks last year). Brown has another year to grow and get stronger and Charles Johnson is starting to show promise as another good but not great DE. Hilee Taylor taken a couple of years ago is a pass rushing specialist. Whether or not he takes the next step up is the question. I can see another DE drafted and possibly one picked up in FA. They won't be a great defensive line, but not the bottom either.
As to the LB's, Beason is the heart of the defense. Davis is coming off ACL surgery, but all reports are that he's coming along nicely and is looking good (already started running a couple weeks ago). SLB Na'il Diggs was released, but Dan Connor (3rd rd draft pick with 1st rd grading) should fill that slot. If he doesn't cut it, James Anderson is back who played the last couple of weeks and did relatively well.
The defensive backfield is doing ok as well. A lot of folks in Carolina wouldn't mind seeing someone pick up Marshall and taking the 2nd. Marshall is a decent player, but his position 2 years ago is that he wants to be the highest paid DB in the league and that hasn't appeared to have changed much. With Captain Munnerlyn, Sherrod Martin, and CJ Wilson, Carolina has a decent coverage should he leave. That leaves Chris Gamble on the other side with Chris Harris at SS and Charles Godfrey at FS.
Moore played well enough at the end of 07 and 09 to get his shot. I don't think he'll be handed the starting job, but I think he wins it easily unless he really bombs.
WR is definitely a question mark and needs to be answered. The interesting thing was to see Jarrett actually play well with someone other than Delhomme under center. Moore doesn't lock onto Smitty the way Jake did which bodes well for the team. He likes to go to the other WR's and TE's as well. Probably one of the first two picks in the draft goes to WR and possibly 2 out of the first 3.
Most of Carolina's moves this year appear to be a push to get younger and get those players playing time as well as reducing salary. This makes a lot of sense for 2011 should the cap be reduced. Remember, JR Richardson is on the owners finance committee, so he may be preparing the team for the future. Also, Carolina should be in for a much easier schedule this year as well. I believe they played a top 3 schedule last year with over half of the games against teams that made the playoffs.
VaCatFan
Footballguy
I think both sides want to get it done, but like many have said, DeAngelo deserves to get paid well as he's a top tier player. Dropping a lot of salary give the Panthers room to maneuver in the future and this may allow them to lock Williams and Davis up this year. May not happen before the season starts though. Having watched the Panthers more than any other team, and watching Williams and Stewart has been a lot of fun. The genuinely like each other and are very happy when the other does well with each usually being one of the first players to congratulate each other for a touch down. A lot of folks on this board want one of them to leave for their fantasy squads and will argue such, but there may be something more to Williams than just money. It happens from time to time. Remember Robert Smith retired young with the money he made. DeAngelo may just like his situation and his team. Staying in Carolina and splitting carries may also extend his career further. He didn't have much wear and tear the first couple of years and both he and Stewart are keeping each other fresh by splitting the carries. I imagine he could continue to play as well as Thomas Jones has in his early 30's which would give him another 4-5 years.
lyon812
Footballguy
And, he likes the RBBC. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/i...on-supreme-fuel
"“We’re each about 220 or 230 carries a year,’’ Williams said. “I’d rather have that than 300-plus carries a year. That wears on your legs and you’re not going to last long doing that. With me and Jonathan back there and sharing it the way we do, that’s a real treat and neither one of us is going to get worn out.’’
Williams is pretty accurate in his numbers. Last season he carried 216 times for 1,117 yards and seven touchdowns. Stewart carried 221 times for 1,133 yards and 10 touchdowns. Williams missed three games because of injuries, but said that didn’t really have a big impact on the carry totals for him and Stewart.
“It’s going to be close to a 50-50 split no matter what," Williams said. “That’s what the coaching staff and the front office wants and it’s also what Jonathan and I want. It’s good for both of us. We’re at our best when it’s that way."
VaCatFan
Footballguy
Interesting take on the Panthers moves so far from someone outside the organization:
From the outside looking in, it appears that Richardson is preparing for 2011.
If there is a lockout, Richardson will have succeeded in trimming the roster of some bloated contracts and declining players while staying out of a dramatically weakened free agency period. In addition, he won't have to worry about paying much of the coaching staff as many are on one-year deals as it is. Without games, there won't be money from the gates, but the TV revenue will still be present -- although it will be recuperated by the networks in later years. In that scenario, Richardson / the Panthers would likely take in more than they do in most years as player and operating costs drop to near zero. If the lockout extended well into the season or cancelled it entirely, Richardson would be in good position for when the games resumed -- more money than usual to spend, the ability to pursue coaches / execs such as Cowher, and, in essence, forge a new identity for the franchise in future years.
If there is a new agreement prior to a lockout happening, Richardson will still have accomplished many of the above. The commitment to Moore isn't so large that it would prevent a new coach and/or GM from bringing in his own starter to compete or start outright. With Peppers gone, there is greater flexibility for defensive change. For example, if Cowher or another coach wanted to implement a 3-4 or simply a different version of the 4-3. As mentioned, youngers players may have the chance to prove themselves this year, making it easier for whoever is molding the roster in future years to decide who stays and who goes. Monetary savings from cutting veterans this offseason and reducing costs across the board would give the potentially new staff the ability to be more active in what is expected to be a stronger 2011 free agent class. In short, the franchise will be able to work to create a new window with the potential for a relatively short turnaround time.
From the outside looking in, it appears that Richardson is preparing for 2011.
If there is a lockout, Richardson will have succeeded in trimming the roster of some bloated contracts and declining players while staying out of a dramatically weakened free agency period. In addition, he won't have to worry about paying much of the coaching staff as many are on one-year deals as it is. Without games, there won't be money from the gates, but the TV revenue will still be present -- although it will be recuperated by the networks in later years. In that scenario, Richardson / the Panthers would likely take in more than they do in most years as player and operating costs drop to near zero. If the lockout extended well into the season or cancelled it entirely, Richardson would be in good position for when the games resumed -- more money than usual to spend, the ability to pursue coaches / execs such as Cowher, and, in essence, forge a new identity for the franchise in future years.
If there is a new agreement prior to a lockout happening, Richardson will still have accomplished many of the above. The commitment to Moore isn't so large that it would prevent a new coach and/or GM from bringing in his own starter to compete or start outright. With Peppers gone, there is greater flexibility for defensive change. For example, if Cowher or another coach wanted to implement a 3-4 or simply a different version of the 4-3. As mentioned, youngers players may have the chance to prove themselves this year, making it easier for whoever is molding the roster in future years to decide who stays and who goes. Monetary savings from cutting veterans this offseason and reducing costs across the board would give the potentially new staff the ability to be more active in what is expected to be a stronger 2011 free agent class. In short, the franchise will be able to work to create a new window with the potential for a relatively short turnaround time.
