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Parcells' comments on 1st round WRs and O Linemen (1 Viewer)

Ridgelake

Footballguy
Following up a discussion in another thread, I went back to try to find Parcells' comments on first round Offensive linemen and WRs being high risk picks. I found one discussion but have not been able to locate another discussion that talked specifically about first round OTs.

Even so, this segment was rather informative. Its from his press conference on Thursday, December 29th, about 11 minutes in. Without further ado, here is a useful segment:

Reporter: A lot of coaches don’t believe in taking offensive linemen in the first round, especially high, because it’s a position that can be developed later. Where do you stand on that?

BP: I’ve given that a lot of thought. From my days back at the Giants, we did draft offensive linemen on two occasions that I was there with our first pick (edit to note they actually took 3) and we drafted Jumbo Elliott highly in the second round.

We were more into that best athlete, best guy available in that era. I would have to say that I would definitely consider it if I thought the guy was, pretty much, you could plug him in and he’d be there for five, six, to ten years if you are lucky. I think you’d have to consider that.

There are some other positions that I’d be reluctant to do that with before the offensive linemen. There are some other positions that I would….

Reporter: Like?

BP: Um, well.

Reporter: We are just talking here. We won’t hold you to it.

BP: I think taking wide receivers real high is risky.

Reporter: Because?

BP: Well, because… I’ve seen. Well, first of all you’ve have more options at that position, usually. And um….. I mean I’ve seen a lot of guys that don’t play very good. That position Just take a look around at the last couple of drafts. Guys get taken first and not playing very good. And then of course there are others taken very high like Fitzgerald that are playing real good. So, got to be lucky there.

 

GRIDIRON ASSASSIN

Footballguy
Here are the thoughts off the top of my head on 1st round WRs:

An interesting thing happened in late August– and it has a direct correlation with my beloved Chicago Bears. First round wide receivers of the NFL were exposed as EXTREMELY risky propositions.

Typically in the NFL it takes two to three years for a wide receiver to begin to reach his potential. Although some have prospered sooner; such as Randy Moss for the Minnesota Vikings, Torry Holt for the St. Louis Rams, Anquan Boldin of the Arizona Cardinals and Roy Williams of the Detroit Lions.

So if we look back at the past several years, let’s review how many first round wideouts have proven to be worthy of that lofty salary, and remain with their original NFL teams. In 2000, the Cincinnati Bengals drafted Peter Warrick with the fourth overall pick, the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted Plaxico Burress with the eight overall pick and the Baltimore Ravens drafted Travis Taylor with the tenth overall pick. Can you say whiff, whiff and whiff again? None of the three has consistently played as a star receiver, and none remain with their original teams. Warrick was released and signed in Seattle where he did little, Burress signed this past offseason with the New York Giants and Travis Taylor signed on with the Minnesota Vikings.

Meanwhile, some of the later round draft picks have done quite well in the NFL, namely second round pick Jerry Porter for the Raiders, and third round picks Laveraneous Coles for the Jets and Redskins and Darrell Jackson with the Seahawks.

In 2001, the Chicago Bears made David Terrell the first wide receiver taken with pick number eight. He was followed by Koren Robinson, chosen by the Seattle Seahawks with the ninth pick, Rod Gardner, taken by Washington Redskins with the fifteenth pick, Santana Moss taken by the New York Jets with the sixteenth pick, and Freddie Mitchell, who the Philadelphia Eagles selected with the 25th overall pick. That is five first round wide receivers, and all five have been huge disappointments to their teams. That’s not to say ALL first rounders are bad, as Reggie Wayne was the last first round wideout taken that year with pick 30, and he just signed a lucrative extension with the Horseshoes of downtown Indiana. But you can’t minimize the negative impact of David Terrell failing with Chicago, then with New England and rotting on Denver's inactive list all season long, or Koren Robinson’s various battles with fire water and driving. Gardner was traded to the Panthers for a conditional draft pick, then cut and played a few games for the team donning the mold and piss colored unis in Wisconsin, Moss was traded away to the Redskins, where he broke out this year and Mitchell was cut by both Philadelphia and Kansas City, the latter of which is desperate for a wide receiver to complement their all-world tight end Tony Gonzalez. These first round wideouts were paid millions to become game breakers, but I only see NFL bank breakers and heartbreakers.

In addition to Reggie Wayne for the Colts, Santana Moss of the Skins, second round picks Chad Johnson of the Bengals and Chris Chambers of the Dolphins have proven to be playmakers when given the opportunity, not to mention third round pick Steve Smith of the Carolina Panthers who I thought had a legit chance to be the NFL Offensive Player of the Year - had it not been for Mr. TD Rushing Record up in Coffeetown, Washingon.

The jury is just about finished with 2002’s thirteenth overall pick Donte Stallworth of the New Orleans Saints and nineteenth overall pick Ashley Lelie of the Denver Broncos. It seems to me that late first rounder Javon Walker of the Green Bay Packers and the 65th overall pick Deion Branch have proven to be much more reliable wide receivers.

It’s also too early to judge the wide receiver class of 2003, but second overall pick Charles Rogers has proven to be a fragile china doll of a receiver for the Detroit Lions. Third overall pick Andre Johnson had put up steady numbers for the Houston Texans, but he disappears for games on end, is brutal when playing in cold weather and fell off the face of the map in '05. 54th pick Anquan Boldin and the 71st pick Nate Burleson have already broken out.

And how about those first rounder WRs in 05?

Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton and Roddy White

I dunno....

Clayton came on very strong late in the season and Matt Jones showed flashed of brilliance. the jury is out on the rest of them.

Just my two cents....

 
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King of the Jungle

Footballguy
Here are the thoughts off the top of my head on 1st round WRs:

An interesting thing happened in late August– and it has a direct correlation with my beloved Chicago Bears. First round wide receivers of the NFL were exposed as EXTREMELY risky propositions.

Typically in the NFL it takes two to three years for a wide receiver to begin to reach his potential. Although some have prospered sooner; such as Randy Moss for the Minnesota Vikings, Torry Holt for the St. Louis Rams, Anquan Boldin of the Arizona Cardinals and Roy Williams of the Detroit Lions.

So if we look back at the past several years, let’s review how many first round wideouts have proven to be worthy of that lofty salary, and remain with their original NFL teams. In 2000, the Cincinnati Bengals drafted Peter Warrick with the fourth overall pick, the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted Plaxico Burress with the eight overall pick and the Baltimore Ravens drafted Travis Taylor with the tenth overall pick. Can you say whiff, whiff and whiff again? None of the three has consistently played as a star receiver, and none remain with their original teams. Warrick was released and signed in Seattle where he did little, Burress signed this past offseason with the New York Giants and Travis Taylor signed on with the Minnesota Vikings.

Meanwhile, some of the later round draft picks have done quite well in the NFL, namely second round pick Jerry Porter for the Raiders, and third round picks Laveraneous Coles for the Jets and Redskins and Darrell Jackson with the Seahawks.

In 2001, the Chicago Bears made David Terrell the first wide receiver taken with pick number eight. He was followed by Koren Robinson, chosen by the Seattle Seahawks with the ninth pick, Rod Gardner, taken by Washington Redskins with the fifteenth pick, Santana Moss taken by the New York Jets with the sixteenth pick, and Freddie Mitchell, who the Philadelphia Eagles selected with the 25th overall pick. That is five first round wide receivers, and all five have been huge disappointments to their teams. That’s not to say ALL first rounders are bad, as Reggie Wayne was the last first round wideout taken that year with pick 30, and he just signed a lucrative extension with the Horseshoes of downtown Indiana. But you can’t minimize the negative impact of David Terrell failing with Chicago, then with New England and rotting on Denver's inactive list all season long, or Koren Robinson’s various battles with fire water and driving. Gardner was traded to the Panthers for a conditional draft pick, then cut and played a few games for the team donning the mold and piss colored unis in Wisconsin, Moss was traded away to the Redskins, where he broke out this year and Mitchell was cut by both Philadelphia and Kansas City, the latter of which is desperate for a wide receiver to complement their all-world tight end Tony Gonzalez. These first round wideouts were paid millions to become game breakers, but I only see NFL bank breakers and heartbreakers.

In addition to Reggie Wayne for the Colts, Santana Moss of the Skins, second round picks Chad Johnson of the Bengals and Chris Chambers of the Dolphins have proven to be playmakers when given the opportunity, not to mention third round pick Steve Smith of the Carolina Panthers who I thought had a legit chance to be the NFL Offensive Player of the Year - had it not been for Mr. TD Rushing Record up in Coffeetown, Washingon.

The jury is just about finished with 2002’s thirteenth overall pick Donte Stallworth of the New Orleans Saints and nineteenth overall pick Ashley Lelie of the Denver Broncos. It seems to me that late first rounder Javon Walker of the Green Bay Packers and the 65th overall pick Deion Branch have proven to be much more reliable wide receivers.

It’s also too early to judge the wide receiver class of 2003, but second overall pick Charles Rogers has proven to be a fragile china doll of a receiver for the Detroit Lions. Third overall pick Andre Johnson had put up steady numbers for the Houston Texans, but he disappears for games on end, is brutal when playing in cold weather and fell off the face of the map in '05. 54th pick Anquan Boldin and the 71st pick Nate Burleson have already broken out.

And how about those first rounder WRs in 05?

Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Matt Jones, Mark Clayton and Roddy White

I dunno....

Clayton came on very strong late in the season and Matt Jones showed flashed of brilliance. the jury is out on the rest of them.

Just my two cents....
Does the first round WR "bust" anymore than any other position? It is one of those position that has a magnifying glass over it (especially through the FF community). It is easy to see when a WR is not living up to potential, but is it as easy to see (or better yet, as noticed) when a linebacker is struggling? Is the WR position one of the harder positions to grasp? It would be interesting to see 1st round positions/bust ratio.
 

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
:thumbup:

Thanks. Now I'll go read it.

Eta, read it. At least he isn't completely ruling out a first round OL. He just needs to believe the guy is good enough to plug in and produce longterm. I think they'll have a shot at one of those guys. I read today that Jonathan Scott is drawing heavy interest from Dallas. Some like Winston and McNeill better, but Scott looked better than them at the Senior Bowl. I gave him to Dallas in a mock draft, and I like the pick whether it happens or not.

 
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GRIDIRON ASSASSIN

Footballguy
They say offensive tackles don't generally bust in the first round, but I think that's a load of bunk also.

Mike Williams was a #4 overall pick for Buffalo.

I don't think #2 overall pick Robert Gallery has 're-defined' the position for Oakland.

NFL pundits point to the fact that the pro-bowl offensive tackles were all first round picks. And there ARE quite a few, such as Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones and Jonathon Ogden...

 
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GRIDIRON ASSASSIN

Footballguy
Here are the 'first rounders only':

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Team College

2005

1 1 13 13 Jammal Brown Saints Oklahoma

2 1 19 19 Alex Barron Rams Florida State

2004

1 1 2 2 Robert Gallery Raiders Iowa

2 1 16 16 Shawn Andrews Eagles Arkansas

2003

1 1 8 8 Jordan Gross Panthers Utah

2 1 20 20 George Foster Broncos Georgia

3 1 26 26 Kwame Harris 49ers Stanford

2002

1 1 4 4 Mike Williams Bills Texas

2 1 7 7 Bryant McKinnie Vikings Miami (FL)

3 1 10 10 Levi Jones Bengals Arizona State

4 1 29 29 Marc Colombo Bears Boston College

2001

1 1 2 2 Leonard Davis Cardinals Texas

2 1 14 14 Kenyatta Walker Buccaneers Florida

3 1 18 18 Jeff Backus Lions Michigan

2000

1 1 3 3 Chris Samuels Redskins Alabama

2 1 20 20 Stockar McDougle Lions Oklahoma

3 1 22 22 Chris McIntosh Seahawks Wisconsin

1999

1 1 14 14 John Tait Chiefs Brigham Young

2 1 18 18 Matt Stinchcomb Raiders Georgia

3 1 19 19 Luke Petitgout Giants Notre Dame

4 1 21 21 L.J. Shelton Cardinals Eastern Michigan

5 1 27 27 Aaron Gibson Lions Wisconsin

1998

1 1 7 7 Kyle Turley Saints San Diego State

2 1 11 11 Tra Thomas Eagles Florida State

3 1 23 23 Mo Collins Raiders Florida

4 1 27 27 Victor Riley Chiefs Auburn

1997

1 1 1 1 Orlando Pace Rams Ohio State

2 1 6 6 Walter Jones Seahawks Florida State

3 1 19 19 Tarik Glenn Colts California

1996

1 1 4 4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens UCLA

2 1 10 10 Willie Anderson Bengals Auburn

3 1 27 27 John Michels Packers USC

4 1 29 29 Jamain Stephens Steelers North Carolina A&T

5 1 30 30 Andre Johnson Redskins Penn State

1995

1 1 2 2 Tony Boselli Jaguars USC

2 1 24 24 Korey Stringer Vikings Ohio State

3 1 25 25 Billy Milner Dolphins Houston

4 1 29 29 Blake Brockermeyer Panthers Texas

5 1 31 31 Trezelle Jenkins Chiefs Michigan

1994

1 1 14 14 Bernard Williams Eagles Georgia

2 1 15 15 Wayne Gandy Rams Auburn

3 1 16 16 Aaron Taylor Packers Notre Dame

4 1 19 19 Todd Steussie Vikings California

1993

1 1 8 8 Willie Roaf Saints Louisiana Tech

2 1 9 9 Lincoln Kennedy Falcons Washington

3 1 13 13 Brad Hopkins Oilers Illinois

4 1 18 18 Ernest Dye Cardinals South Carolina

17 8 21 217 Doug Skene Eagles Michigan

18 8 27 223 Chris L

 

Captain Blowhard

Footballguy
Every position has had busts; every position is a risk high in the draft. Qbs--Ware, Klinger, Leaf, etc etc etc; RB--Enis, Blair Thomas, Kijanan, etc etc etc; linebackers--Bruce, Alberts, etc etc etc.

I mean, really now, come on.

 

ExaltedOne

Footballguy
Yeah I would agree that every position is risky.

Also, what defines a bust? Does he have to be a pro-bowler, a starter, or just a role-player to be deemed a successful draft pick?

Looking back, that '97 draft was probably one of the best ever (other than the terrible first round receivers). It yielded Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, Peter Boulware, Walter Jones, Chris Naeole, Warrick Dunn, Tony Gonzalez, Tarik Glenn, Trevor Pryce, Jamie Sharper, Tiki Barber, Jake Plummer, Corey Dillon, Sam Madison, Darren Sharper, Ronde Barber, Dan Neil, Mike Vrabel, and Derrick Mason to name a few. You could make a pretty good team with those guys.

 

fatness

against the grain
In 2001, the Chicago Bears made David Terrell the first wide receiver taken with pick number eight. He was followed by Koren Robinson, chosen by the Seattle Seahawks with the ninth pick, Rod Gardner, taken by Washington Redskins with the fifteenth pick, Santana Moss taken by the New York Jets with the sixteenth pick, and Freddie Mitchell, who the Philadelphia Eagles selected with the 25th overall pick. That is five first round wide receivers, and all five have been huge disappointments to their teams...........

.............In addition to Reggie Wayne for the Colts, Santana Moss of the Skins, second round picks Chad Johnson of the Bengals and Chris Chambers of the Dolphins have proven to be playmakers when given the opportunity
That's confusing.
 

GRIDIRON ASSASSIN

Footballguy
In 2001, the Chicago Bears made David Terrell the first wide receiver taken with pick number eight.  He was followed by Koren Robinson, chosen by the Seattle Seahawks with the ninth pick, Rod Gardner, taken by Washington Redskins with the fifteenth pick, Santana Moss taken by the New York Jets with the sixteenth pick, and Freddie Mitchell, who the Philadelphia Eagles selected with the 25th overall pick. That is five first round wide receivers, and all five have been huge disappointments to their teams...........   

.............In addition to Reggie Wayne for the Colts, Santana Moss of the Skins, second round picks Chad Johnson of the Bengals and Chris Chambers of the Dolphins have proven to be playmakers when given the opportunity
That's confusing.
So Moss wasn't a disappointment to the team that drafted him, the Jets? That was my point.
 

Z-Dog

Footballguy
Every position has had busts; every position is a risk high in the draft. Qbs--Ware, Klinger, Leaf, etc etc etc; RB--Enis, Blair Thomas, Kijanan, etc etc etc; linebackers--Bruce, Alberts, etc etc etc.

I mean, really now, come on.
Every position has its busts, true, but you also have to ask whether there's another option. At QB, there's relatively little depth - most starting QBs in the NFL are 1st rounders, and very few are 4th rounders or later. However, it's clear that at WR, there's more value later in the draft. That means that it may not be worthwhile to draft WRs early, particularly b/c it seems like there's always a nice set of promising WRs with 3-5 years of experience just getting out of their rookie deals.
 

Urinal Mint

Footballguy
Goose Gosselin was on with Randy Galloway in Dallas yesterday and made an interesting point about the strength of this year's draft. He mentioned that this is a very strong draft class because there is a definite scarcity of WRs on the top of the board (1st-2nd round). Food for thought.

 

Reaper

Footballguy
Like many Draftniks, I was screaming for my Jets to grab a tackle...Shockingly they desperately need one now.. They made that trade for Jolley, Moved Down and STILL had a shot at a few OT's...

Anyone have a quick report card on the Top Tackles from last year.

Jammal Brown

Alex Barron

Michael Roos

Marcus Johnson

Kahlif Barnes - Especially this guy - People had him pegged for the Jets in round 1 and he Fell pretty far from projections.

 

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