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Pat Kirwin Mock #6 (1 Viewer)

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
Here

His intro is interesting...

(April 3, 2007) -- After spending a few days with the general managers, coaches and an owner or two at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix last week and some time on the phone this week, I once again have a slightly different perspective about where the draft is headed.

There are still a few critical decisions in free agency and trades that will affect the first round of this draft. Where are Corey Dillon and David Carr headed? Will Lance Briggs and Michael Turner get traded?

Mock Draft No. 6 is, as one GM said to me this week, getting closer to what might happen on draft day. Of course, April 1 is April Fool's Day, and club executives around the league start playing April Fool's jokes all month long about what they might do in the draft.
Inside dope, free agency winding down, smokescreens and all; he feels like he's getting closer to how this goes down. I like the order of cornerbacks. Revis and Houston before Hall. Houston before Revis is also likely, but both the underclassmen are a tier, a major tier, above Leon Hall. Five WRs in the first round. The usual suspects with Rice falling to the 2nd (presumably, as there is no posted second). I like the order. Bowe, Jarrett and Ginn before Meachem. Sure the offseason interview and evaluation season is important, but game tape is far more important. Every scout, GM, or personnel guy I have ever heard discuss the topic agrees the film is the story. Meachem had a great year, but Jarrett and Ginn are, like the top underclassmen corners, in a different tier. I personally think they should go ahead of Bowe, but Bowe's package is impressive. Rice should be #4, imo. I think Bowe and Meachem are great btw. Incredible class of WRs. I cannot emphasize that enough.

Anyway, if Kirwin is right and his mocks are starting to look more realistic... how did Marcus McCauley slip in there!!? :lol:

 
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I've always liked Kirwan and I am by no means a draft expert. But this is the only mock I have seen that does not include Marshawn Lynch in the first round. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?

 
I've always liked Kirwan and I am by no means a draft expert. But this is the only mock I have seen that does not include Marshawn Lynch in the first round. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?
He mentions "downward pressure" on RBs. It is very odd. He's posting a mock a week, and I expect someone to talk sense into him by next week. :goodposting:
 
Seeing how C Dan Koppen signed a 5-year contract extension 6 months ago through 2011 at a reasonable cost, I can't see the Pats taking C Ryan Kalil with the 28th pick . . .

28. New England: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- With two first-round picks and a very aggressive offseason in the free-agency market, the Patriots can afford to take the highest-rated center and not worry about the position for a very long time.
 
Seeing how C Dan Koppen signed a 5-year contract extension 6 months ago through 2011 at a reasonable cost, I can't see the Pats taking C Ryan Kalil with the 28th pick . . .

28. New England: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- With two first-round picks and a very aggressive offseason in the free-agency market, the Patriots can afford to take the highest-rated center and not worry about the position for a very long time.
Good catch. There is a correct impulse to get Kalil into the first round as he is clearly capable of starting in the NFL from day one. Who needs a center?
 
I still believe that either Russell or Quinn, one or the other, will fall dramatically in this draft. Probably Quinn.

I completely disagree that the Bears would draft Quinn at #6. No way. Seriously. Absolutely no way.

I could see Landry at #6, but I really don't think they will go that direction either. I maintain they will go for a lineman with feakish abilities if they move up that high (or will trade down for more picks).

But a QB at #6 in Chicago? The guy would never make it to year 3 in that town. Peyton Manning would not have made it to year 3. The town and the Chicago media is just is brutal on players, but especially QBs. I can see no chance of that being the selection, just noise.

 
I've always liked Kirwan and I am by no means a draft expert. But this is the only mock I have seen that does not include Marshawn Lynch in the first round. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?
He mentions "downward pressure" on RBs. It is very odd. He's posting a mock a week, and I expect someone to talk sense into him by next week. :P
BTW, Kirwin mentions this downward pressure on RBs back in his fourth or fifth mock and in an article somewhere (if you're wondering what I am referring to). Personally, I think McCauley in and Lynch out are the two main flaws in this mock, but McCauley seems to be getting a bunch of attention again. Some source must have leaked something somewhere, or maybe his pro day has people forgetting how forgettable his play has been?
 
.I completely disagree that the Bears would draft Quinn at #6. No way. Seriously. Absolutely no way.
I have never seen a mock draft that made everybody happy. I have never seen a Draft do that either.I agree that Quinn to the Bears seems unlikely, but I don't think it is as absurd as you. Face it. Chicago has a QB problem. It is real. The only arguments are based on denial. Quinn has a franchise grade with question marks. I agree he could free fall, but getting him out of the way at #6 to a team with a "situation" at Chicago is a fine placement in a mock draft. Good for stirring the conversation pot if nothing else. As for the freak lineman you think they'll take, there will not be one available for the offense, and the DLine is loaded.
 
I think this mock represents the worst possible scenario for the Browns. Trading up, losing picks and then to top it all off, selecting a QB.

 
The Baltimore Ravens selected former Oklahoma University center Chris Chester at #56 overall in the 2006 NFL Draft.
Very good point, and I'm aware of that. I also think they could easily move Chester to guard, leaving the center position for Kalil.
hmmmmmmmm. Below was last years set up. The weak spot in center which is why Chester was drafted.Keydrick Vincent = RGMike Flynn = C - He started all games last year( I know he is old)Jason Brown = LGAre either Brown or Vincent a weaker link?
 
hmmmmmmmm. Below was last years set up. The weak spot in center which is why Chester was drafted.Keydrick Vincent = RGMike Flynn = C - He started all games last year( I know he is old)Jason Brown = LGAre either Brown or Vincent a weaker link?
:towelwave: If you're a fan of the Ravens, you'd probably know more than me. But I see it working out this way:Ogden/Brown/Kalil/Chester/Terry
 
As for the freak lineman you think they'll take, there will not be one available for the offense, and the DLine is loaded.
Chicago's?
Go on...
Harris & Dvoracek have injury concerns.Tank Johnson has OTHER concerns.

Ian Scott may be gone.

It may be loaded, but it's in a state of flux.
Ok. DT. I guess a DT might be able to step in and help the Bears immediately. That is a must for a top 10 pick (except for QBs). Branch is a bit of a freak, but I'm buying into the negative sentiments with him lately. I sense a free fall. Okoye is a freak in that he is so young and has such skinny legs that he'll never hold up against the run. The Bears are too smart for that. I don't see it. No lineman. I've said since mid season Patrick Willis could play OLB. I think lining him up with Urlacher might be smart. :towelwave:

 
hmmmmmmmm. Below was last years set up. The weak spot in center which is why Chester was drafted.Keydrick Vincent = RGMike Flynn = C - He started all games last year( I know he is old)Jason Brown = LGAre either Brown or Vincent a weaker link?
:shrug: If you're a fan of the Ravens, you'd probably know more than me. But I see it working out this way:Ogden/Brown/Kalil/Chester/Terry
Just a frustrated Jamal Lewis owner who started to watch Ravens games to see why Jamal stunk last year.
 
hmmmmmmmm. Below was last years set up. The weak spot in center which is why Chester was drafted.Keydrick Vincent = RGMike Flynn = C - He started all games last year( I know he is old)Jason Brown = LGAre either Brown or Vincent a weaker link?
:thumbup: If you're a fan of the Ravens, you'd probably know more than me. But I see it working out this way:Ogden/Brown/Kalil/Chester/Terry
The Ravens almost never draft an interior O lineman very high. Chris Chester was very aberrational for them as a #2 pick last year. They took Brown in the 4th two years ago, took Rabach in the 4th in 2001, and took Mulitalo in the 4th in 99. And that's it for draft picks on interior O linemen.Chester will compete with Vincent at RG this year and Flynn will be Center. When Flynn retires, Chester will move over to Center. This kind of reminds me of the 2001 draft when everyone was mocking the Ravens to take Dominic Raiola at Center, because their Center, Jeff Mitchell, had just left in free agency for Carolina. Instead, they took Todd Heap and Flynn slid over from RG to Center.. Likewise this year, the Ravens will take whoever the best player on their board is, regardless of position. But history shows that the Ravens do not rate interior O Linemen very highly.
 
Just a frustrated Jamal Lewis owner who started to watch Ravens games to see why Jamal stunk last year.
Jamal stunk last year because Jamal stinks.Cleveland is going to find out they let one old, slow dude go so that they could acquire another.
 
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As for the freak lineman you think they'll take, there will not be one available for the offense, and the DLine is loaded.
Chicago's?
Go on...
Harris & Dvoracek have injury concerns.Tank Johnson has OTHER concerns.

Ian Scott may be gone.

It may be loaded, but it's in a state of flux.
Ok. DT. I guess a DT might be able to step in and help the Bears immediately. That is a must for a top 10 pick (except for QBs). Branch is a bit of a freak, but I'm buying into the negative sentiments with him lately. I sense a free fall. Okoye is a freak in that he is so young and has such skinny legs that he'll never hold up against the run. The Bears are too smart for that. I don't see it. No lineman. I've said since mid season Patrick Willis could play OLB. I think lining him up with Urlacher might be smart. :thumbup:
I wonder about the Bears taking a LB in the first round, unless they feel they are getting extradinaire value. If the Bears don't make the trade with the Redskins, taking a LB in the first round seems to be conceding to Briggs. You are ignoring other needs to address LB, anticipating Briggs not playing. IF that is the case you might as well trade him. Because then you have to leave the $7.2 million open for Briggs, and you have to pay a first round LB first round money too. And you probably aren't going to get great production out of any first round LB because you have a hard time plugging a rookie into a top 5 D immediately. IF you do that you almost force yourself to trade Briggs. And then I think you are at a disadvantage. I think you get less than you would have before the draft because teams know you have to make a trade before the end of the year or you may get nothing for him. Does this make sense?
 
As for the freak lineman you think they'll take, there will not be one available for the offense, and the DLine is loaded.
Chicago's?
Go on...
Harris & Dvoracek have injury concerns.Tank Johnson has OTHER concerns.

Ian Scott may be gone.

It may be loaded, but it's in a state of flux.
Ok. DT. I guess a DT might be able to step in and help the Bears immediately. That is a must for a top 10 pick (except for QBs). Branch is a bit of a freak, but I'm buying into the negative sentiments with him lately. I sense a free fall. Okoye is a freak in that he is so young and has such skinny legs that he'll never hold up against the run. The Bears are too smart for that. I don't see it. No lineman. I've said since mid season Patrick Willis could play OLB. I think lining him up with Urlacher might be smart. :thumbup:
I wonder about the Bears taking a LB in the first round, unless they feel they are getting extradinaire value. If the Bears don't make the trade with the Redskins, taking a LB in the first round seems to be conceding to Briggs. You are ignoring other needs to address LB, anticipating Briggs not playing. IF that is the case you might as well trade him. Because then you have to leave the $7.2 million open for Briggs, and you have to pay a first round LB first round money too. And you probably aren't going to get great production out of any first round LB because you have a hard time plugging a rookie into a top 5 D immediately. IF you do that you almost force yourself to trade Briggs. And then I think you are at a disadvantage. I think you get less than you would have before the draft because teams know you have to make a trade before the end of the year or you may get nothing for him. Does this make sense?
Well, the only way Chicago gets the #6 is if Briggs is gone, so that much was implied in the discussion that started with Hairy stating they will not go QB there. Now if Briggs is gone, I think Willis makes sense (I'm higher on Willis this year than Hawk last year and I thought Hawk was the safest pick in the draft). If not, we're talking about a very late first rounder and I have no idea what position they might address.
 
So wait... No Marshawn Lynch in the first round???

Is he a total idiot?
No. RB's just are not at a premium in today's NFL.Look how far the RBs fell last year (excepting Bush of course).
Huh? Didn't Maroney, DWill and Addai all go in the first round last year?

Marshawn definitely falls into that category and there are teams with definite RB needs-

GB, HOU, CLE, NYG, BUF, TEN
My point was that they didn't go as high as a lot of people thought they might.And those teams with definite RB needs have definite needs at other positions too. Ones that are typically more difficult to fill than RB.

Lynch is a first rounder. But it's not impossible for him to slip out of the 1st.

 
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The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experienceWR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experienceJust how young does he think these guys need to be?
 
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27. New Orleans: Joe Staley, OT, Central Michigan -- The versatile lineman is moving up the board. With Greg Olsen gone and no defensive tackles available, the Saints will take the tackle. I think the Saints might have to move up to get a quality corner, and it's a good idea. Dallas loves to make trades on draft day, and the No. 22 spot would insure a corner could be had.
only the statement in bold makes sense for the saints.
 
The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experienceWR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experienceJust how young does he think these guys need to be?
He forgot to insert the word "good" before "young" in that sentence.Jackson appears to be on the verge, but Parker is nothing more than a role player. Floyd is just okay.
 
The Chargers need an injection of talented young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experience

WR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experience

Just how young does he think these guys need to be?
fixededit to add: Andy beat me to the punch :pickle:

 
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The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experienceWR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experienceJust how young does he think these guys need to be?
He forgot to insert the word "good" before "young" in that sentence.Jackson appears to be on the verge, but Parker is nothing more than a role player. Floyd is just okay.
Do we think Jackson is in for a classic 3rd year WR breakout? I know almost zero about him, having seen one Chargers game last year...
 
Do we think Jackson is in for a classic 3rd year WR breakout? I know almost zero about him, having seen one Chargers game last year...
Yes and no. Since he's the third receiving option in the offense, my excitement is tempered a bit.In another offense, I'd give a more emphatic "yes."
 
.I completely disagree that the Bears would draft Quinn at #6. No way. Seriously. Absolutely no way.
I have never seen a mock draft that made everybody happy. I have never seen a Draft do that either.I agree that Quinn to the Bears seems unlikely, but I don't think it is as absurd as you. Face it. Chicago has a QB problem. It is real. The only arguments are based on denial.
I'm not in denial, I'm just not looking at this from a FF perspective. LAST offseason the Bears had QB problems. I wouldn't disagree that the Bears need more consistency at QB, but Rex is only a one-year starter and can improve. At times, he HAS flashed his talent, he just needs to cut down on his errors. Griese and Orton are serviceable so I don't think the Bears will draft a QB in the first (if at all) when they can address other issues.
 
As for the freak lineman you think they'll take, there will not be one available for the offense, and the DLine is loaded.
Chicago's?
Go on...
Harris & Dvoracek have injury concerns.Tank Johnson has OTHER concerns.

Ian Scott may be gone.

It may be loaded, but it's in a state of flux.
Ok. DT. I guess a DT might be able to step in and help the Bears immediately. That is a must for a top 10 pick (except for QBs). Branch is a bit of a freak, but I'm buying into the negative sentiments with him lately. I sense a free fall. Okoye is a freak in that he is so young and has such skinny legs that he'll never hold up against the run. The Bears are too smart for that. I don't see it. No lineman. I've said since mid season Patrick Willis could play OLB. I think lining him up with Urlacher might be smart. :lmao:
I wonder about the Bears taking a LB in the first round, unless they feel they are getting extradinaire value. If the Bears don't make the trade with the Redskins, taking a LB in the first round seems to be conceding to Briggs. You are ignoring other needs to address LB, anticipating Briggs not playing. IF that is the case you might as well trade him. Because then you have to leave the $7.2 million open for Briggs, and you have to pay a first round LB first round money too. And you probably aren't going to get great production out of any first round LB because you have a hard time plugging a rookie into a top 5 D immediately. IF you do that you almost force yourself to trade Briggs. And then I think you are at a disadvantage. I think you get less than you would have before the draft because teams know you have to make a trade before the end of the year or you may get nothing for him. Does this make sense?
So what you are saying is DON'T draft a LB and WHEN Briggs sits for more than half a season you have a gaping hole and don't have anyone to take his place? Its not a question of IF Briggs leaves, it's WHEN. Could be this year, could be next, could be in two years, but it will happen. The Bears have to find a replacement sooner or later. Not sure if it will be in this draft, but if a talent falls to them, they I wouldn;t be opposed to the Bears taking a LB.
 
The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experienceWR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experienceJust how young does he think these guys need to be?
He forgot to insert the word "good" before "young" in that sentence.Jackson appears to be on the verge, but Parker is nothing more than a role player. Floyd is just okay.
They were good enough to be integral parts of the league's highest scoring offense. :confused: I'm not saying the unit couldn't stand to be upgraded, but there are bigger concerns for the Chargers.
 
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Did Rex Grossman really look any worse than Brett Favre when comparing first full seasons as a starter?
Wow, is THAT post a can of worms.The way they were different, at least to my eyes, would be while Favre would make the most idiotic throws/decisions at times, he sprinkled in just enough amazing, brilliant, Oh-My-God-Did-You-See-That? type plays while Holmgren wrestled to get his raw talent under control. With Grossman, he makes great 1st read throws, followed by horrible decision throws, but I don't see anything 'special' that wold tell me he will be a great quarterback. (Not saying he needs to be 'great', but could be the thinking behind some thinking the Bears are looking at QBs)
 
I've always liked Kirwan and I am by no means a draft expert. But this is the only mock I have seen that does not include Marshawn Lynch in the first round. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?
More like - realistic
The reason I think it seems odd has nothing to do with the relative talent of Lynch or the needs of any teams. It is just the case that I have seen probably a couple of dozen mock drafts and this is the only one that doesn't include Lynch. I don't actually recall even seeing one with him slipping further than the mid-teens. Either every other draft is a victim of group-think or Kirwan is of-base.
 
The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meachem looked fast and smooth at the Combine.
WR1 - Vincent Jackson: 2 years experienceWR2 - Eric Parker: 5 years experienceWR3 - Malcolm Floyd: 3 years experienceJust how young does he think these guys need to be?
He forgot to insert the word "good" before "young" in that sentence.Jackson appears to be on the verge, but Parker is nothing more than a role player. Floyd is just okay.
They were good enough to be integral parts of the league's highest scoring offense. :wall: I'm not saying the unit couldn't stand to be upgraded, but there are bigger concerns for the Chargers.
But could those concerns (like free safety) be upgraded later and at the same level while at the same time upgrading the WR corps significantly with a player such as Meachem?
 
I've always liked Kirwan and I am by no means a draft expert. But this is the only mock I have seen that does not include Marshawn Lynch in the first round. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?
He mentions "downward pressure" on RBs. It is very odd. He's posting a mock a week, and I expect someone to talk sense into him by next week. :yes:
So wait... No Marshawn Lynch in the first round??? Is he a total idiot?
An item from PFT about a week ago...
MARSHAWN STILL A FIRST-ROUNDERA reader has pointed out to us that Pat Kirwan of NFL.com, who recently had defensive end Jamaal Anderson completely out of his first-round mock draft, also has taken running back Marshawn Lynch off of the board.So what gives? Kirwan says that "[q]uestions are emerging" about Lynch, but doesn't delve into said questions. We've done some poking around, and the only questions we're aware of relate to allegations that were made and promptly disregarded by a female acquaintance several months ago.For Kirwan, however, something apparently has bubbled up in the past week to cause Lynch to fJust my 2 cents.all from No. 16 to the Packers all the way out of the round.In fact, the thinking is that Lynch won't get past the Titans at No. 19. We're told that he has visits lined up with Cleveland, Baltimore, Tennessee, Green Bay, Detroit, and Buffalo, and private workouts with the Packers and the Titans.The Bills, Packers, and Titans all need a clear-cut No. 1 tailback. We can't see all three saying no to Lynch.Even if they do, we envision someone trading into the bottom of round one to snare him, just like the Lions did a few years back in landing Kevin Jones.And, though we've got no real beef with Kirwan, it's hard to ponder his slate of picks without recalling the side deal he allegedly had several years back in connection with the rookie contract of quarterback Carson Palmer, who coincidentally happened to be the No. 1 guy on Kirwan's mock draft. One league insider who eyeballed Kirwan's mock spotted several CAA clients positioned far higher than many think they will be taken.We're not suggesting that Kirwan is pimping for Tom Condon or Ben Dogra. But the reality of the mock draft process is that agent relationships often can color the manner in which certain players are regarded.
One of the problems with ex-NFL guys who cover the game...if they were so damn good they wouldn't be writing about it now. They also tend to do favors for some of their pals who may or may not have enough pull to someday get them back in the game or hook them up with a nice job within the NFL again. Pasquerelli pulls the same crap by pumping up certain agents clients when they need a boost. This dynamic has also played out with his coverage of the Skins. Ever since he wasn't spoon fed the inside scoop on Gibbs return as head coach his coverage of the Skins has gone from very positive (during the Spurrier regime) to very negative (w/ Gibbs).Kirwin and Pasquarelli = material that I now heavily question
 

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