Patriots being investigated after Colts game (6 Viewers)

[Flying Elvis]

This thread is like crack. I keep coming back for another sprinkle or two.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/Ln8duIQYziruM/giphy.gif

 

[PhD]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

 

[brun]

I just don't see any punishments being handed down without evidence that someone working for the Patriots actually deflated the balls. Unless I've missed something, the evidence would be some video of the act, someone stating that they saw someone do it, or someone admitting that they did it. I just don't see any of those things happening.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are a lot of unhappy QB's in the future as the NFL implements new restrictions on what can & cannot be done to customize the balls.

Way too much public wailing for a relatively (IMO) minor event.

If it were really that important and left up to me. I would measure and record (balls must be serialized) before the game, at halftime and after the game. Over time you'd be able to figure out when non-random changes occur. Then I'd launch an investigation.

 

[Old Smiley]

I don't know if this was posted earlier, but I found it pretty funny. It's Drew Magary from DeadSpin on the sanctimony:

http://deadspin.com/the-ballghazi-takes-are-here-and-they-are-#######-insa-1680877948

Nothing new, but holy hanna have the media been bad on this. This thread has asked better questions and been more on top of the central issues. I couldn't find anything on the nuts and bolts of the pre-game inspection until I came here.

Also, post Rice, I think the league is in full on bunker mode. They could have shut this down in an hour. "No. We don't strictly mandate that the balls be put on a meter. We've got people who've been in football for decades, we trust their eyes. The Colts complained, we did meter them, they were a little under, and we fixed them. Quarterbacks are fussy, no big deal. On to Arizona."

 

[shader]

ESPN's Adam Schefter is on television reporting some important information regarding DeflateGate.

Per Schefter, the league might be able to release their findings at some point today. He also says that the NFL is sturggling to collect any evidence that the Patriots knowingly affected the football, and that the burden of proof lies with the league to determine guilt. If the league cannot find evidence that the Patriots tampered with the football, then there's nothing that should happen to New England.

It's likely that any league information will wait until after Tom Brady's 4 PM press conference, but early leaks are entirely possible.

This would absolutely be the best case scenario for the Patriots and it would allow everyone to move on and start discussing the Super Bowl that's expected to happen the first week of February.

Not surprising. I always wondered how they would prove tampering. I don't expect the Pats to admit any wrongdoing, and I don't expect the NFL to admit that they didn't test the footballs thoroughly. So we are left with the NFL allowing a scandal to fester for four days, despite not having any tangible information.

It's quite possible that the Patriots did absolutely nothing wrong, but have been ran through the ringer due to NFL incompetence.

 

[shader]

I just don't see any punishments being handed down without evidence that someone working for the Patriots actually deflated the balls. Unless I've missed something, the evidence would be some video of the act, someone stating that they saw someone do it, or someone admitting that they did it. I just don't see any of those things happening.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are a lot of unhappy QB's in the future as the NFL implements new restrictions on what can & cannot be done to customize the balls.

Way too much public wailing for a relatively (IMO) minor event.

If it were really that important and left up to me. I would measure and record (balls must be serialized) before the game, at halftime and after the game. Over time you'd be able to figure out when non-random changes occur. Then I'd launch an investigation.

I'd bet anything that most of the QB's in the league are worried sick that a new rule is going to come out, which is keeping them from speaking out. Probably hoping and praying that this goes away quickly.

 

[TheAristocrat]

Are the guys with deflated balls in this thread still outraged?

 

[Dondante]

Pats fans AND Seahawks fans? This is going to be a loooooooong couple of weeks.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

I heard that the last time that Brady played with a properly inflated ball was against KC in week 3.

 

[parrot]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

You mean like when he hung 28 on the Colts in the second half?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

I agree, and now I have a sick feeling in my stomach that Tommyboy had some knowledge of it.........

I don't think so. He laughed and said he doesn't want to talk about ridiculous things like that when he was asked about it. Brady wouldn't lie.

This is fair. You can't take Brady's sarcastic dismissals in press conferences lightly. For example, remember when Brady laughed off Plaxico Burress' suggestion that the Pats would score 17 points in Super Bowl 42, and then they went out and only scored 14 even though 17 would have sent the game to OT? Now that's integrity. Guy would rather lose a Super Bowl than lie to the media.

I won't lie, took me a second to realize you were being given facetious.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

@Boston Globe: As parents we once again have to be ethicists. How to talk about #deflategate with your kids http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/2015/01/22/what-can-tell-kids-about-deflategate/j228TLkXz4Cj8cRYFKkzCJ/story.html?hootPostID=7e6f40b9f7dd14fa3ca155cc8d75808d

LOL

 

[msudaisy26]

Just another reason why there shouldn't be a bye week between the Super Bowl and the championship games.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I'm sure some random fan deflated the footballs.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be

furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the

ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Unless they can prove the Pats tampered with balls that were supposed to "remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game." they league can't touch NE for this

I wonder if the ball attendant tells a smilar story that the one from the Bears did.

 

[Tango]

No, listen to the interview! The link is above.
Clearly Harbaugh's objective was (1) not to lie, and (2) not to draw the ire of the Patriots in the future.

When it comes to #1 he states definitively that the Ravens special teams complained to him and that the league contacted them about it. You fill in the blank about how the league heard about a private conversation between him and his special teams.

When it comes to #2, he states clearly he thinks there was no wrongdoing. That is a total CYA statement; fine, I'd do the same thing. But it does not take away from #1 at all.

Your link doesn't take me there. Give me a good link and I will. The best I have is the ESPN article where he says he found nothing suspicious. To me that means either he didn't raise the complaint or he's lying as you assume.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ravens-did-not-notice-anything-about-patriots-footballs-being-deflated-john-harbaugh-said-20150121-story.html

I give up. Giving me a link that takes me to the same place is not helpful. If you're not a baltimore sun member that link does not work.

Huh, weird...sorry about that.

But you can get it from other stories too.

Fact 1: the Ravens never handled Patriots offensive balls; so that's a non-issue as far as the Ravens go

Fact 2: the Ravens special teams complained to/around Harbaugh about the balls

Fact 3: Harbaugh, exhibiting expert media skills, says 100% that he believes the Patriots are innocent of messing with the special teams balls. ie, Harbaugh wants nothing to do with any semblance of accusing the Patriots of anything. It can only come back to bite him in the a*s. The Colts did the work for him apparently.

Fact 4: Despite #3, Harbaugh confirmed the NFL contacted the Ravens about #2 and interviewed various Ravens. A 6-year old can connect the dots here; how the heck does the NFL contact the Ravens specifically about special teams balls when that was a private conversation among the Ravens? Because someone within earshot or on-orders inside the Ravens, despite Harbaugh's crafty denial in #3, complained to someone else about it.

What's fascinating is that the media only cares about fact #3. Harbaugh is a genius re PR, but I suspect Belichek sees right through the BS. If I can, so can Belichek.

As the afternoon sets in, the media seems to be catching up to Harbaugh's Jedi mind trick yesterday. The Ravens special teams is being viewed as the primary accusers.

Someone was asking for a link that the Ravens were the originators. Here's one:

Jay Glazer is reporting it.

 

[stbugs]

Lets get sport science to do a investigation on what it would take to deflate a ball that much and how much an advantage it would give.

They already did and no one is talking about it

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12207314

That was great. Basically said it didn't matter at all and that balls actually went slower, but again by minuscule amounts.

The best part was that he said that the rain clinging to the ball had a 10x more weight change to the ball than the weight reduction due to the PSI reduction. The weight reduction due to the PSI change was the weight of a dollar bill.

that's some bad science, and completely missing the point. A fractional of amount of improved grip would help a QB gain better control and accuracy - they made no mention of that.

More importantly, a slightly underinflated ball will bounce less - off of a receivers hands, for instance. A fractionally softer ball would also be easier for a back to carry without fumbling.

Why is it bad science and completely missing the point? They mentioned the grip improving by 1.5% and they mentioned the decrease in speed of the ball as well. The whole point of it was even with those changes, the difference was entirely negligible and there wasn't a single close play that was decided by any of those changes.

Heck, this all started with an interception by the Colts, would that interception have happened if the ball was inflated properly? Maybe the Colts should forfeit the interception.

This is really silly at this point. The difference according to the link, is negligible. The balls were inspected before the game and during halftime and replaced. This according to other QBs and articles, seems to be common place. The video a couple pages back with the officials talking about things made it appear that being close enough was fine and that teams (kickers no less, who are supposed to use the same balls) "work" on the balls. IMHO, this is all just sour grapes by the Colts who decided to leak the story to make the Patriots look bad for something that didn't matter.

The fact that it is on CNN when I grabbed lunch yesterday is about as big of a joke as there is. I used to think that if the Pats altered the balls after the pre-game inspection that they should get punished, now I hope they don't and I hope the Colts get punished for leaking news before the NFL got a chance to discuss it. They seem like the childish little brats that got beat bad and went to go get their mom to rat you out for not letting them score.

 

[Flying Elvis]

I don't know if this was posted earlier, but I found it pretty funny. It's Drew Magary from DeadSpin on the sanctimony:

http://deadspin.com/the-ballghazi-takes-are-here-and-they-are-#######-insa-1680877948

Nothing new, but holy hanna have the media been bad on this. This thread has asked better questions and been more on top of the central issues. I couldn't find anything on the nuts and bolts of the pre-game inspection until I came here.

Also, post Rice, I think the league is in full on bunker mode. They could have shut this down in an hour. "No. We don't strictly mandate that the balls be put on a meter. We've got people who've been in football for decades, we trust their eyes. The Colts complained, we did meter them, they were a little under, and we fixed them. Quarterbacks are fussy, no big deal. On to Arizona."

That article literally made me lol. Co-workers asking why and everything.

As for your take, I said something similar elsewhere. The NFL Brass has put its ineptitude on full display for us yet again.

@Boston Globe: As parents we once again have to be ethicists. How to talk about #deflategate with your kids http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/2015/01/22/what-can-tell-kids-about-deflategate/j228TLkXz4Cj8cRYFKkzCJ/story.html?hootPostID=7e6f40b9f7dd14fa3ca155cc8d75808d

LOL

Oh dear lawdy. I'm afraid to read that because it looks like it's a honest-to-goodness real attempt at discussing how parents can get through this with their kids. I can hear Helen Lovejoy . . .

 

[bostonfred]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

Don't you think he'll get deported too? I suspect what you think matters less and less to people.

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Simple people are amazed by all sorts of things (look, a rainbow!)

If you think stealing signals (legal) with a camcorder on the sidelines (not legal), or slightly under-inflated footballs makes a massive difference in the outcome of games (claims even their 'cheated upon' opponents adamantly refuse to make), you are, what I like to call, wrong.

It's sure that your beloved Pats are in the habit of doing illegal things because they don't get any benefit out of it. Cheating just because it's fun!

Just remember that your HC came to your team in a haze of NCAA allegations and many believe their SB win was fueled by Adderall.

Many people believe that humans aren't making the world hotter and vaccines cause autism too. But hey, anything to take the microscope off of your cheating team!

*

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

No, listen to the interview! The link is above.
Clearly Harbaugh's objective was (1) not to lie, and (2) not to draw the ire of the Patriots in the future.

When it comes to #1 he states definitively that the Ravens special teams complained to him and that the league contacted them about it. You fill in the blank about how the league heard about a private conversation between him and his special teams.

When it comes to #2, he states clearly he thinks there was no wrongdoing. That is a total CYA statement; fine, I'd do the same thing. But it does not take away from #1 at all.

Your link doesn't take me there. Give me a good link and I will. The best I have is the ESPN article where he says he found nothing suspicious. To me that means either he didn't raise the complaint or he's lying as you assume.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ravens-did-not-notice-anything-about-patriots-footballs-being-deflated-john-harbaugh-said-20150121-story.html

I give up. Giving me a link that takes me to the same place is not helpful. If you're not a baltimore sun member that link does not work.

Huh, weird...sorry about that.

But you can get it from other stories too.

Fact 1: the Ravens never handled Patriots offensive balls; so that's a non-issue as far as the Ravens go

Fact 2: the Ravens special teams complained to/around Harbaugh about the balls

Fact 3: Harbaugh, exhibiting expert media skills, says 100% that he believes the Patriots are innocent of messing with the special teams balls. ie, Harbaugh wants nothing to do with any semblance of accusing the Patriots of anything. It can only come back to bite him in the a*s. The Colts did the work for him apparently.

Fact 4: Despite #3, Harbaugh confirmed the NFL contacted the Ravens about #2 and interviewed various Ravens. A 6-year old can connect the dots here; how the heck does the NFL contact the Ravens specifically about special teams balls when that was a private conversation among the Ravens? Because someone within earshot or on-orders inside the Ravens, despite Harbaugh's crafty denial in #3, complained to someone else about it.

What's fascinating is that the media only cares about fact #3. Harbaugh is a genius re PR, but I suspect Belichek sees right through the BS. If I can, so can Belichek.

As the afternoon sets in, the media seems to be catching up to Harbaugh's Jedi mind trick yesterday. The Ravens special teams is being viewed as the primary accusers.

Someone was asking for a link that the Ravens were the originators. Here's one:

Jay Glazer is reporting it.

Nice way for John to repay Belichick for calling Bisciotti unsolicited and recommending him for the head coaching job 7 years ago.

 

[Thunderlips]

Lets get sport science to do a investigation on what it would take to deflate a ball that much and how much an advantage it would give.

They already did and no one is talking about it

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12207314

That was great. Basically said it didn't matter at all and that balls actually went slower, but again by minuscule amounts.

The best part was that he said that the rain clinging to the ball had a 10x more weight change to the ball than the weight reduction due to the PSI reduction. The weight reduction due to the PSI change was the weight of a dollar bill.

that's some bad science, and completely missing the point. A fractional of amount of improved grip would help a QB gain better control and accuracy - they made no mention of that.

More importantly, a slightly underinflated ball will bounce less - off of a receivers hands, for instance. A fractionally softer ball would also be easier for a back to carry without fumbling.

Why is it bad science and completely missing the point? They mentioned the grip improving by 1.5% and they mentioned the decrease in speed of the ball as well. The whole point of it was even with those changes, the difference was entirely negligible and there wasn't a single close play that was decided by any of those changes.

Heck, this all started with an interception by the Colts, would that interception have happened if the ball was inflated properly? Maybe the Colts should forfeit the interception.

This is really silly at this point. The difference according to the link, is negligible. The balls were inspected before the game and during halftime and replaced. This according to other QBs and articles, seems to be common place. The video a couple pages back with the officials talking about things made it appear that being close enough was fine and that teams (kickers no less, who are supposed to use the same balls) "work" on the balls. IMHO, this is all just sour grapes by the Colts who decided to leak the story to make the Patriots look bad for something that didn't matter.

The fact that it is on CNN when I grabbed lunch yesterday is about as big of a joke as there is. I used to think that if the Pats altered the balls after the pre-game inspection that they should get punished, now I hope they don't and I hope the Colts get punished for leaking news before the NFL got a chance to discuss it. They seem like the childish little brats that got beat bad and went to go get their mom to rat you out for not letting them score.

Cheating's cheating. The whole "doesn't matter....outcome wasn't in question" is a lame defense and a poor excuse. If they're guily....they should be punished by the NFL. If they're found to not be guilty....that doesn't neccessarily give them the legitimacy to be exocenerated in the court of public opinion.

The story is another hit to BB's/Brady's legacy. If they win.....there's going to be an * with fans over it (much like Spygate). If they lose....then they can't win unless they cheat.

 

[mbuehner]

If the Patriots deflated the balls after the initial check in, yeah this is a big deal.

If they submitted deflated balls and they were approved, this is entirely on the NFL.

Short of a confession I have no idea how you prove this either way. If the Refs dont habitual put a meter on the balls (which i suspect they do not), the NFL isnt likely to admit it.

The bottom line is we have no idea if this is just a totally common thing in the NFL, ie equivalent to speeding 5mph over the limit, yeah its a violation, yeah everybody does it, and yeah the cops almost never enforce it.

The Patriots brought this down on themselves with their record, but I do suspect every other team in the league is snickering that this is being taken so seriously.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

This is all I'm gonna say in this thread but my step sister went to high school with Tom and if you think he would lie, then you don't know him.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

 

[The General]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

You mean like when he hung 28 on the Colts in the second half?

The balls were found to be under-inflated at the end of the game. Tommy was playing with a nerf ball in the 2nd half.

 

[mbuehner]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

 

[moleculo]

Lets get sport science to do a investigation on what it would take to deflate a ball that much and how much an advantage it would give.

They already did and no one is talking about it

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12207314

That was great. Basically said it didn't matter at all and that balls actually went slower, but again by minuscule amounts.

The best part was that he said that the rain clinging to the ball had a 10x more weight change to the ball than the weight reduction due to the PSI reduction. The weight reduction due to the PSI change was the weight of a dollar bill.

that's some bad science, and completely missing the point. A fractional of amount of improved grip would help a QB gain better control and accuracy - they made no mention of that.

More importantly, a slightly underinflated ball will bounce less - off of a receivers hands, for instance. A fractionally softer ball would also be easier for a back to carry without fumbling.

Why is it bad science and completely missing the point? They mentioned the grip improving by 1.5% and they mentioned the decrease in speed of the ball as well. The whole point of it was even with those changes, the difference was entirely negligible and there wasn't a single close play that was decided by any of those changes.

Heck, this all started with an interception by the Colts, would that interception have happened if the ball was inflated properly? Maybe the Colts should forfeit the interception.

This is really silly at this point. The difference according to the link, is negligible. The balls were inspected before the game and during halftime and replaced. This according to other QBs and articles, seems to be common place. The video a couple pages back with the officials talking about things made it appear that being close enough was fine and that teams (kickers no less, who are supposed to use the same balls) "work" on the balls. IMHO, this is all just sour grapes by the Colts who decided to leak the story to make the Patriots look bad for something that didn't matter.

The fact that it is on CNN when I grabbed lunch yesterday is about as big of a joke as there is. I used to think that if the Pats altered the balls after the pre-game inspection that they should get punished, now I hope they don't and I hope the Colts get punished for leaking news before the NFL got a chance to discuss it. They seem like the childish little brats that got beat bad and went to go get their mom to rat you out for not letting them score.

because I don't think it's negligible. The sport science showed that a lower pressure in the ball has a negligible difference in how it travels through the air - no one argues that.

They make no mention of how a softer ball would be easier to catch or carry. That's the impact.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

Don't you think he'll get deported too? I suspect what you think matters less and less to people.

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Simple people are amazed by all sorts of things (look, a rainbow!)

If you think stealing signals (legal) with a camcorder on the sidelines (not legal), or slightly under-inflated footballs makes a massive difference in the outcome of games (claims even their 'cheated upon' opponents adamantly refuse to make), you are, what I like to call, wrong.

It's sure that your beloved Pats are in the habit of doing illegal things because they don't get any benefit out of it. Cheating just because it's fun!

Just remember that your HC came to your team in a haze of NCAA allegations and many believe their SB win was fueled by Adderall.

Many people believe that humans aren't making the world hotter and vaccines cause autism too. But hey, anything to take the microscope off of your cheating team!

so much proof of tampering with the balls coming out so far. I know you guys want Bill to hang for being a #####, but this is silly.

 

[parrot]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

You mean like when he hung 28 on the Colts in the second half?

The balls were found to be under-inflated at the end of the game. Tommy was playing with a nerf ball in the 2nd half.

Yeah, no. Depending on which of the 17 circulating versions you choose to believe on how things went down, the Pats game balls were apparently replaced with backup balls at halftime, that were properly inflated.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

weei.com carried Bill's presser live and I'm sure they will do the same for Brady

 

[KarmaPolice]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldnt matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we dont put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

Any reports besides Morts that has used specific numbers they started at or were at during the halftime check?

 

[ChromeWeasel]

If the Patriots deflated the balls after the initial check in, yeah this is a big deal.

If they submitted deflated balls and they were approved, this is entirely on the NFL.

Short of a confession I have no idea how you prove this either way. If the Refs dont habitual put a meter on the balls (which i suspect they do not), the NFL isnt likely to admit it.

The bottom line is we have no idea if this is just a totally common thing in the NFL, ie equivalent to speeding 5mph over the limit, yeah its a violation, yeah everybody does it, and yeah the cops almost never enforce it.

The Patriots brought this down on themselves with their record, but I do suspect every other team in the league is snickering that this is being taken so seriously.

That's my thoughts too. I don't believe that there was anyone actually letting the air out of the balls after the refs inspected them. If that happened it is a significant issue. I'm willing to bet that this is something that was never considered a big deal before. The NFL has intentionally allowed all QBs to get comfortable with their gameballs so that we can see more offense. This was all working just the way that the NFL wanted to benefit QB passing for more yards, with more scoring and more excitement.

Again, it's different if someone actually let air out after the footballs were approved. But I'd bet anything that this didn't happen.

 

[moleculo]

If a ball were inflated to 13.5 PSI at 72dF, and then brought onto lambeau where the temp was 0 dF, the ball would have a measured air pressure of 9.7 dF, a difference of 3.8 PSI.

The issue isn't that the ball was out of range - you can't fight physics, and both teams would be playing under the same circumstances.

The issue is that the air temperature in Foxborough wasn't cold enough to explain the observed drop in pressure.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

That would certainly end any controversy.

 

[Niles Standish]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

Pretty sure it will be aired live on WEEI.

http://www.weei.com/ click on the listen live button.

 

[Deamon]

Lets get sport science to do a investigation on what it would take to deflate a ball that much and how much an advantage it would give.

They already did and no one is talking about it

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12207314

That was great. Basically said it didn't matter at all and that balls actually went slower, but again by minuscule amounts.

The best part was that he said that the rain clinging to the ball had a 10x more weight change to the ball than the weight reduction due to the PSI reduction. The weight reduction due to the PSI change was the weight of a dollar bill.

that's some bad science, and completely missing the point. A fractional of amount of improved grip would help a QB gain better control and accuracy - they made no mention of that.

More importantly, a slightly underinflated ball will bounce less - off of a receivers hands, for instance. A fractionally softer ball would also be easier for a back to carry without fumbling.

Why is it bad science and completely missing the point? They mentioned the grip improving by 1.5% and they mentioned the decrease in speed of the ball as well. The whole point of it was even with those changes, the difference was entirely negligible and there wasn't a single close play that was decided by any of those changes.

Heck, this all started with an interception by the Colts, would that interception have happened if the ball was inflated properly? Maybe the Colts should forfeit the interception.

This is really silly at this point. The difference according to the link, is negligible. The balls were inspected before the game and during halftime and replaced. This according to other QBs and articles, seems to be common place. The video a couple pages back with the officials talking about things made it appear that being close enough was fine and that teams (kickers no less, who are supposed to use the same balls) "work" on the balls. IMHO, this is all just sour grapes by the Colts who decided to leak the story to make the Patriots look bad for something that didn't matter.

The fact that it is on CNN when I grabbed lunch yesterday is about as big of a joke as there is. I used to think that if the Pats altered the balls after the pre-game inspection that they should get punished, now I hope they don't and I hope the Colts get punished for leaking news before the NFL got a chance to discuss it. They seem like the childish little brats that got beat bad and went to go get their mom to rat you out for not letting them score.

Cheating's cheating. The whole "doesn't matter....outcome wasn't in question" is a lame defense and a poor excuse. If they're guily....they should be punished by the NFL. If they're found to not be guilty....that doesn't neccessarily give them the legitimacy to be exocenerated in the court of public opinion.

The story is another hit to BB's/Brady's legacy. If they win.....there's going to be an * with fans over it (much like Spygate). If they lose....then they can't win unless they cheat.

Exactly. They're in a lose/lose situation with fans of other teams. That's a very lazy sports mentality if you ask me. You get to be happy if they win (call them cheaters in threads, argue that there's an *), or if they lose ("they can't win without cheating!"). As a fan to put yourself in a position where both outcomes support your case is what is wrong with fans. You gotta put something on the line and be willing to eat the bullet. If they win there will only be an (*) placed by that type of annoying fan. If they lose, then go right ahead and say they're not great.

 

[WetDream]

This is all I'm gonna say in this thread but my step sister went to high school with Tom and if you think he would lie, then you don't know him.

My ex-boyfriend knows him too and let's just say he's not above lying, if you know what I mean.

 

[Thunderlips]

At any rate....huge advantage Seahawks. You best be sure those balls in the SB will be blown up so much....Brady will have to use two hands to throw a forward pass.

 

[The General]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

Pretty sure it will be aired live on WEEI.

http://www.weei.com/ click on the listen live button.

Won't be able to listen live. Will check that site in a bit though, thanks.

He was supposed to do it at 1 Eastern, right?

 

[Deamon]

If a ball were inflated to 13.5 PSI at 72dF, and then brought onto lambeau where the temp was 0 dF, the ball would have a measured air pressure of 9.7 dF, a difference of 3.8 PSI.

The issue isn't that the ball was out of range - you can't fight physics, and both teams would be playing under the same circumstances.

The issue is that the air temperature in Foxborough wasn't cold enough to explain the observed drop in pressure.

They weren't inflated to 13.5.

Okay, what if a ball was inflated to 12.5 at 90dF (say in an office with the heat cranked), then brought out to the temp at Foxborough... what would the Psi be 3 hours later?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

Pretty sure it will be aired live on WEEI.

http://www.weei.com/ click on the listen live button.

Won't be able to listen live. Will check that site in a bit though, thanks.

He was supposed to do it at 1 Eastern, right?

4pm EST

 

[parrot]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldnt matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we dont put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

Any reports besides Morts that has used specific numbers they started at or were at during the halftime check?

This. Everyone is using Mort's report as gospel. That's dangerous.

Also, in the Austin interview, he said the balls were supposed to be 13lbs and it was "his understanding" that they had been found to be 2lbs below that. My understanding is that the people trying to apply the ideal gas laws were coming up about a half pound off. Well since the mandated MINIMUM is 12.5 lbs, not 13lbs, that could be your half pound right there.

 

[moleculo]

If a ball were inflated to 13.5 PSI at 72dF, and then brought onto lambeau where the temp was 0 dF, the ball would have a measured air pressure of 9.7 dF, a difference of 3.8 PSI.

The issue isn't that the ball was out of range - you can't fight physics, and both teams would be playing under the same circumstances.

The issue is that the air temperature in Foxborough wasn't cold enough to explain the observed drop in pressure.

They weren't inflated to 13.5.

Okay, what if a ball was inflated to 12.5 at 90dF (say in an office with the heat cranked), then brought out to the temp at Foxborough... what would the Psi be 3 hours later?

10.3 PSI - a loss of over 2 PSI.

 

[Road Warriors]

Also should add that it will be interesting to see how Tommy does with footballs that are not to his specification in the super bowl. Poor guy... If he loses, not only will Belichick fail to get the post-spygate super bowl choker gorilla off his back, but now people will start to question how good Brady actually is when he plays with a regulation football.

I heard that the last time that Brady played with a properly inflated ball was against KC in week 3.

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Brady with a ball pump on Sunday. I guess it's pretty serious.

 

[The General]

Anyone have a link to Tom Brady's press conference today?

Pretty sure it will be aired live on WEEI.

http://www.weei.com/ click on the listen live button.

Won't be able to listen live. Will check that site in a bit though, thanks.

He was supposed to do it at 1 Eastern, right?

4pm EST

Thanks. Looking forward to it. Hopefully there are some good reporters there asking right questions.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

If Bill does know how much they were off (and wouldn't everyone lean towards he does know?) then how in the world could they be off by as much as Mort reported? Bill just said they will inflate to the high end of the range to avoid any issues, if they were really off by 2 that still wouldn't have put them in the clear because if Mort's report is true than the balls would be 11.5.

 

[Deamon]

If a ball were inflated to 13.5 PSI at 72dF, and then brought onto lambeau where the temp was 0 dF, the ball would have a measured air pressure of 9.7 dF, a difference of 3.8 PSI.

The issue isn't that the ball was out of range - you can't fight physics, and both teams would be playing under the same circumstances.

The issue is that the air temperature in Foxborough wasn't cold enough to explain the observed drop in pressure.

They weren't inflated to 13.5.

Okay, what if a ball was inflated to 12.5 at 90dF (say in an office with the heat cranked), then brought out to the temp at Foxborough... what would the Psi be 3 hours later?

10.3 PSI - a loss of over 2 PSI.

So is this a possibility? That they pumped them up in a warm room, to the legal specifications... got them checked by refs and they read 12.5 psi (legal), and then the weather did the rest?

I'm torn on weather under these circumstances this would be sketchy or brilliant. Probably a little of both, and technically legal.

 

[Frostillicus]

The 'natural pressure change' argument is easy to explore. The formula is simple:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.

Lets take the very outer temperature limits of plausibility, say it was 75d F when they filled them, and 33dF when they tested (you have to change F to Kelvin to work this formula).

12.5PSI / 297K = X / 274K

Solve for X = 11.5 PSI

So even if the temp dropped farther than we know it dropped, at most you would lose 1 pound per square inch of pressure.

In order to lose 2PSI, the temperature the balls were filled at would have had to have been 127d F.

Apparently not that easy as we are now 1400+ posts in and people are still calculating this wrong. The equation is P1/T1 = P2/T2 rearrange the equation to solve for T2 so we get T2 = P2/P1*T1. All units of measure MUST be measured in absolute . For pressure you need to add the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) to the pressure inside the ball. The temps need to be in absolute also so either in Kelvin (C + 273) or Rankine (F + 459).

So your example to find a 2 psi drop works out to:

P1 = 12.5 + 14.7 = 27.2

P2 = 10.5 + 14.7 = 25.2

T1 = 75 + 459 = 534

T2 = (25.2/27.2) * 534 = 494 degrees rankine subtract 459 to convert back to F = 35

So the change in temperature is 75 - 35 = 40 degrees for a 2 psi drop in pressure in the ball.

Its not just posters getting this wrong its actual people in the media putting out this foolishness. Felger and Mazz on 98.5 were talking about an 87 degree temperature swing required to get the 2 psi change in the ball.

atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) can change depending on the weather, no? Foxboro went from cold and dry to wet and foggy that day.

.

Also, if the Patriots (Brady) wanted a softer ball, the easiest way would be to inflate the balls with hot air at time of inspection.

They meet the minimum psi then quickly lose psi after cooling off outside. Not cheating.

X

wrong.

it IS cheating.the colts balls were not off by any weight whatsoever...so how is it that just the Patriots balls , ALL 12 of them, were off by 2+ lbs,while the Colts balls were not off one bit?

answer: Bellichick and Brady cheated. where there's smoke there's fire.you backing the wrong people here.the NFL is goingto come down hard on BB,he'll get suspended for the SB, huge fine , loss of draft picks, and suspension for 4+ games next season.it's THAT serious.not a preseason game, not week 1, but the AFC Championship game..now the circus turns to the SB..he won't make the trip to Az..they'll let him get the team prepped till sunday,and annouce it then,that he's suspended.

THEY CHEATED.

what's so hard to understand here?

and if you think Brady didn't know about it,you're nuts.he was in on the gig.check his laugh at that radio show the other day,when asked about it.his obnoxious arrogant laughter tells it all.would love to have a body language expert sit in on that conversation..I'm sure there were telltale signs ..

also,if you think Bobby Kraft wasn't in on the gig, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya..

other owners are probably clamoring that the NFL come down hard on this guy, BB, who already was caught cheating,and now is again.

and those of you who don't think he should be suspended, they banned Sean Payton for a full year for Bountygate..and his DC was out for 2 years..thats for putting money on injuries made to opposing players.actually altering the game and its parts - deflating balls - is even WORSE...

the mdeia is going to make this SB a circus, it could affect sponsors, etc..the integrity of the game has been compromised,yet,again,by Bill Bellichick and Tommy Brady.

they're both FRAUDS, and this will only further cement the idea that BB doesn't sniff the HOF and that Brady gets an asterisk..

ladies and gentlemen, meet the new Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire..

Holy ####.

 

[Deamon]

One would have to assume that Belichick knows exactly how much the balls were under inflated when they tested them at halftime. He used some pretty specific examples of why they would now inflate the balls to the high end of the acceptable limit. Obviously there have been a lot of conflicting reports in the media referencing unnamed sources so will it shock people that Mort's report of being off by 2 ends up being .2? He used that specific example.

Below is the transcript:

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

If it were .2 the weather could definitely account for it. That would be a shocking error in reporting though.

If Bill does know how much they were off (and wouldn't everyone lean towards he does know?) then how in the world could they be off by as much as Mort reported? Bill just said they will inflate to the high end of the range to avoid any issues, if they were really off by 2 that still wouldn't have put them in the clear because if Mort's report is true than the balls would be 11.5.

Ya i doubt Mort's numbers are true. I just wish the NFL would come out with some official numbers before the Super Bowl.