Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

My proposed narrative:

Brady and the Pats have been doing this for a long time.

The rest of the league knew, but even if some teams weren't thrilled no one cared enough to make a stink about it.

Brady lectures Harbaugh about "learning the rule book" after exploiting a technical loophole to help them win the playoff game against the Ravens.

The rest of the league, already not so happy about the history of cheating and the formation exploit, thinks "EFF these guys -- we got your rule book right here." The Colts and Ravens set Deflategate in motion.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[rjv]

My proposed narrative:

Brady and the Pats have been doing this for a long time.

The rest of the league knew, but even if some teams weren't thrilled no one cared enough to make a stink about it.

Brady lectures Harbaugh about "learning the rule book" after exploiting a technical loophole to help them win the playoff game against the Ravens.

The rest of the league, already not so happy about the history of cheating and the formation exploit, thinks "EFF these guys -- we got your rule book right here." The Colts and Ravens set Deflategate in motion.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Fantastic summary. Thumbs up here. Bottom line, no matter how minor the rule seems to be its still a rule and Brady broke it.

 

[cstu]

My proposed narrative:

Brady and the Pats have been doing this for a long time.

The rest of the league knew, but even if some teams weren't thrilled no one cared enough to make a stink about it.

Brady lectures Harbaugh about "learning the rule book" after exploiting a technical loophole to help them win the playoff game against the Ravens.

The rest of the league, already not so happy about the history of cheating and the formation exploit, thinks "EFF these guys -- we got your rule book right here." The Colts and Ravens set Deflategate in motion.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Quite possible he dug his own grave with that line. It's one thing to cheat, it's another to insult the team you cheated against.

It's like a poker player pulling an ace out of his sleeve and telling you to get a better tailor.

 

[BroadwayG]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

 

[12punch]

How is their chicanery even in doubt? The guy referred to himself as "The Deflator" before the season even started!

well, I really don't want to get dragged into a discussion of this nonsense with a bunch of poo flingers, as there's really no point, but in case this is actually a serious question....

I haven't read the thing, and you haven't either, but occasionally somebody will reference things that I want to look up, so at this point I've read a few pages, and the more I read it, the less I can figure out how people see anything in here.

you're referencing a handful of cherry picked texts lifted from a longer conversation between 2 buddies who have been apparently working together for 20 years, so you don't have any idea what kind of context there is, and this one, in particular, is from may.

they aren't playing football in may, but they are probably processing hundreds of footballs from the sound of it --- maybe somebody has some better info on that.

I am 100% sure that guy does deflate a ####load of balls to get them to spec and start the breaking in process.

I'm not making that claim, but the point is these are a handful of texts out of probably hundreds or thousands shot back and forth between these guys and you don't know what they reference any more than I do.

explain these texts that I rarely see mentioned

10/16 10p jastremski (to the deflator) (jets game started at 8:30p)

"Tom is acting crazy about balls" "Ready to vomit!"

10/17 8a jastremski (to his fiancee)

Ugh...Tom was right ---

I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs... They were like 16. Felt like bricks

10/17 9a jastremski (to the deflator)

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs
####ed us...a few of then were at almost 16

10/17 9a jastremski

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

explain that string.

some guys supposedly altering the balls after the refs inspect them, to get them down to 11, are talking about a 16 pound ball that was supposed to be 13 pounds, which is right in the legal wheelhouse.

I'm assuming the ball must've been a little on the low end, like maybe 12, so the ref squirts an extra 4 pounds of air in there without noticing and they actually play with that ball, again without noticing.

people are going back and forth in this thread over a third of a pound of air like they think they have a half a brain in their head and it was left up to brady to notice he was playing with a ball 10x that much over spec --- but...but....the guy sneaking it off to the bathroom.......

the theory that the entire league knew about some great advantage the pats were playing with forever yet kept silent until the one day that a guy happened to sneak off to the bathroom for one minute to deflate 13 balls a third of a pound is the ramblings of an attention starved crackpot or a whiny pats hating troll frustrated by watching his team get drubbed every year.

I expect the next accusation will be about the pats putting listening devices in the other teams' cheese.

 

[The Duff Man]

This is the biggest I have with this whole miss (which I posted about over the weekend). To the best of my knowledge, in the history of th e league, no player has been suspended for an equipment violation. Similarly, there have been no other full scale investigations into an equipment violation.

Few things in this world get judged based on its merits alone, past history, experience, the perception lens of the judger and even consideration of the public reaction to the decision all play a role.

Do I want to date this girl?

Should I hire this guy?

What sentence should be handed down for this assault case?

Should I eat at this restaurant for lunch?

Should I call unsportsmanlike conduct on this player?

Should we sign Richie Incognito?

Can I trust this friend not to screw me?

Past history matters. The Pats cannot escape their history. They were publically called out for cheating in Spygate. Instead of contrition and scaling back their activities, they continue to push the envelope of acceptable fair play looking for an edge. Maybe other teams were doing it....maybe not. But other teams did not get caught for Spygate and have the league cover it up for them.

If the penalty is severe it is due to the past history....not the infraction alone. Pats fans might not like it, maybe it is not even right....but that is the real world.

 

[GregR]

My proposed narrative: Brady was irate at McNally after the Jets game in October, where some ref over-inflated the balls. After that incident, McNally wanted to make damn sure the refs didn't screw with proper inflation, so they began doctoring the balls post-ref inspection. In his mind, he was correcting the refs mistake - doing his best to make sure Mr Brady got to play with his balls just the way he liked them.

McNally Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

Jastremski Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

The bolded above, and a comment about not "going to ESPN... yet" are two of the more damning things. The latter in the midst of texts about deflating, even though joking, indicates something going on that the Patriots wouldn't want revealed in the media. Else it would make no sense even as a joke.

Then the one above it is difficult to dream up something else it is talking about that fits as it would deflating the balls. Again, particularly in the midst of so many other texts that are clearly about deflating the balls. And they had an opportunity to provide such an explanation if there was one.

Even if there are errors in experimental methods that leave it possible, but not assured, the balls could have reached those pressures normally, I think the investigation found plenty of evidence that altering the balls was going on. The above, throw in McNally's lying and changing stories about taking the balls to the field and whether he stopped off anywhere, Brady's claims about lack of knowledge of McNally proven false both by the texts and others testimony, plus Brady expressing a lack of level of caring about how the balls are handled that is completely at odds with every other NFL QB and with Brady's own previous role in getting the rules changed to give teams more of a role in the ball prep, etc, I still think the case has been made.

 

[12punch]

I'm not convinced Brady is guilty of anything outside of not fully cooperating with the Wells investigation. He will be suspended for that, but I'm not entirely sure his involvement goes deeper.

My proposed narrative: Brady was irate at McNally after the Jets game in October, where some ref over-inflated the balls. After that incident, McNally wanted to make damn sure the refs didn't screw with proper inflation, so they began doctoring the balls post-ref inspection. In his mind, he was correcting the refs mistake - doing his best to make sure Mr Brady got to play with his balls just the way he liked them.

The doctoring got routine by January, and in the playoffs it's even more important for your star QB to have every advantage. As McNally saw Anderson over-inflate a couple of balls and then adjust the pressure, he took it upon himself to just make sure things were right.

This is tampering of official, certified game equipment by a member of the Patriots organization, and it likely wasn't the first time. The Patriots do deserve sanctions as a result, especially given they are repeat offenders, but I'm still not entirely convinced Brady is culpable.

yeah, and it's also a story you created in your imagination.

 

[the moops]

Are there any actual quotes in the report from the interview with those two dudes? They sure don't seem like two dudes that would keep mum about any shenanigans. And hell, it appears they didn't even like Brady.

 

[12punch]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

did he sneak off to the bathroom to do it, or was it in plain sight on the sideline?

 

[rjv]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

its not a competitive advantage so this post is just silly

 

[BroadwayG]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

did he sneak off to the bathroom to do it, or was it in plain sight on the sideline?

Once he had all the equipment guys surround him so no one could see, once while actually on the field, and once in plain sight on the sideline.

 

[BroadwayG]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

its not a competitive advantage so this post is just silly

A rule is a rule. Deflating balls isn't a competitive advantage either.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm not convinced Brady is guilty of anything outside of not fully cooperating with the Wells investigation. He will be suspended for that, but I'm not entirely sure his involvement goes deeper.

My proposed narrative: Brady was irate at McNally after the Jets game in October, where some ref over-inflated the balls. After that incident, McNally wanted to make damn sure the refs didn't screw with proper inflation, so they began doctoring the balls post-ref inspection. In his mind, he was correcting the refs mistake - doing his best to make sure Mr Brady got to play with his balls just the way he liked them.

The doctoring got routine by January, and in the playoffs it's even more important for your star QB to have every advantage. As McNally saw Anderson over-inflate a couple of balls and then adjust the pressure, he took it upon himself to just make sure things were right.

This is tampering of official, certified game equipment by a member of the Patriots organization, and it likely wasn't the first time. The Patriots do deserve sanctions as a result, especially given they are repeat offenders, but I'm still not entirely convinced Brady is culpable.

yeah, and it's also a story you created in your imagination.

You understand that moleculo's "story" is supposed to be exculpatory, right? Did you even read his post?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Are there any actual quotes in the report from the interview with those two dudes? They sure don't seem like two dudes that would keep mum about any shenanigans. And hell, it appears they didn't even like Brady.

Nobody likes a cheater.

 

[SacramentoBob]

12punch trying hard to win the contest.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Posts about it not being an advantage is just stupid and played out. If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it. And also, if it's no advantage then why would they be so stupid to even flirt with breaking the rules when they don't need to?? Especially after they have been caught cheating in the past.

It doesn't need to give an advantage every play. But in a game that one play can make the difference that's all it has to change. A wr wearing stick em doesn't have a huge effect but if it helps the wr make one 3rd down catch or a big td late in the game that has a huge effect. And even one win in a 16 game season is the difference between playoffs or not. Or home field.

So even if it only helped slightly it still could be the difference of playing Baltimore in Baltimore and losing.

 

[Anarchy99]

According to Jason Cole, citing sources inside the league, Brady will be suspended for 4-6 games with Goodell ultimately wanting it reduced to 2-3 games.

The rationale seems odd, as the league will cite inclusion of non players and staff as a reason for the length of the suspension. I find that to be a bit "out there" cause if Brady did this stuff on his own they would have crucified him worse for being directly involved.

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

 

[BroadwayG]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

 

[cstu]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

 

[12punch]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

did he sneak off to the bathroom to do it, or was it in plain sight on the sideline?

Once he had all the equipment guys surround him so no one could see, once while actually on the field, and once in plain sight on the sideline.

judging by camerainplainviewgate I'd say that last one is the worst, and should probably cost his team a first round pick.

 

[BroadwayG]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

If it mattered, there wouldn't be a rule. Do the crime, do the time.

 

[the moops]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

If it mattered, there wouldn't be a rule. Do the crime, do the time.

The time in the rulebook is a 25,000 dollar fine, right?

 

[12punch]

Posts about it not being an advantage is just stupid and played out. If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it. And also, if it's no advantage then why would they be so stupid to even flirt with breaking the rules when they don't need to?? Especially after they have been caught cheating in the past.

It doesn't need to give an advantage every play. But in a game that one play can make the difference that's all it has to change. A wr wearing stick em doesn't have a huge effect but if it helps the wr make one 3rd down catch or a big td late in the game that has a huge effect. And even one win in a 16 game season is the difference between playoffs or not. Or home field.

So even if it only helped slightly it still could be the difference of playing Baltimore in Baltimore and losing.

1 - it's an arbitrary spec from the manufacturer from 100 yrs ago -- it wasn't competition tested

2 - we don't know that they actually were breaking any rules, despite what the poo flinging howler monkeys would want to believe

but I'm glad we at least agree that receivers using stick um is across the line.

they find out anybody did something like that, and they should be kicked out of the hof

 

[BustedKnuckles]

How is their chicanery even in doubt? The guy referred to himself as "The Deflator" before the season even started!

well, I really don't want to get dragged into a discussion of this nonsense with a bunch of poo flingers, as there's really no point, but in case this is actually a serious question....

I haven't read the thing, and you haven't either, but occasionally somebody will reference things that I want to look up, so at this point I've read a few pages, and the more I read it, the less I can figure out how people see anything in here.

you're referencing a handful of cherry picked texts lifted from a longer conversation between 2 buddies who have been apparently working together for 20 years, so you don't have any idea what kind of context there is, and this one, in particular, is from may.

they aren't playing football in may, but they are probably processing hundreds of footballs from the sound of it --- maybe somebody has some better info on that.

I am 100% sure that guy does deflate a ####load of balls to get them to spec and start the breaking in process.

I'm not making that claim, but the point is these are a handful of texts out of probably hundreds or thousands shot back and forth between these guys and you don't know what they reference any more than I do.

explain these texts that I rarely see mentioned

10/16 10p jastremski (to the deflator) (jets game started at 8:30p)

"Tom is acting crazy about balls" "Ready to vomit!"

10/17 8a jastremski (to his fiancee)

Ugh...Tom was right ---

I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs... They were like 16. Felt like bricks

10/17 9a jastremski (to the deflator)

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs
####ed us...a few of then were at almost 16

10/17 9a jastremski

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

explain that string.

some guys supposedly altering the balls after the refs inspect them, to get them down to 11, are talking about a 16 pound ball that was supposed to be 13 pounds, which is right in the legal wheelhouse.

I'm assuming the ball must've been a little on the low end, like maybe 12, so the ref squirts an extra 4 pounds of air in there without noticing and they actually play with that ball, again without noticing.

people are going back and forth in this thread over a third of a pound of air like they think they have a half a brain in their head and it was left up to brady to notice he was playing with a ball 10x that much over spec --- but...but....the guy sneaking it off to the bathroom.......

the theory that the entire league knew about some great advantage the pats were playing with forever yet kept silent until the one day that a guy happened to sneak off to the bathroom for one minute to deflate 13 balls a third of a pound is the ramblings of an attention starved crackpot or a whiny pats hating troll frustrated by watching his team get drubbed every year.

I expect the next accusation will be about the pats putting listening devices in the other teams' cheese.

its funny how nobody here wants to address these text messages LOL...talk about burying the head in the sand

 

[GregR]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

Contrast that with this where the event was found to be a violation, they also lied at the moment (McNally's changing stories when first addressed about it), but then continued lying to cover it up and in some cases wouldn't cooperate. Two quite different situations.

The Vikings and Panthers ball warming incident. The league sent out a notice to clarify it wasn't allowed. An appropriate parallel for the Patriots is their previous ball infraction in 2004 which also wasn't deemed a serious or intentional enough attempt to break the rules to warrant punishment and also resulted in a league wide warning. Both seem about on the same level and were handled similarly.

There isn't a good parallel that I know of for taking the balls immediately after a process to certify them and altering the attribute (inflation level) that was the focus of the certification. And then being proven to have continued to lie about it after, and not cooperate with the investigation. No other incident was so brazen a breaking of the rules, and none involve the level of lack of cooperation with the investigation.

So no, this isn't a signal the league is severely punishing every rule infraction going forward. This was a more blatant infraction both in what was done and how they handled it after (lying). Those elements were missing from all 3 of the other incidents including the previous Patriots ball incident. I don't see a lack of consistency if that is the punishment given out.

 

[BroadwayG]

I wonder if they will implement special TV timeouts every 5 minutes this season. They'll have to test and record every game's balls and get them in compliance.

 

[12punch]

matt chatham the man as always

laying down some apparently not so common sense

 

[12punch]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

 

[LittlePhatty]

matt chatham the man as always

Hilarious "transcript" below the video.

It says "may not be 100% accurate", but it should say "definitely not even 50% accurate".

 

[Bayhawks]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

If it mattered, there wouldn't be a rule. Do the crime, do the time.

The time in the rulebook is a 25,000 dollar fine, right?

No, the "time" in the rulebook for the deflating of the balls STARTS at a $25K fine; the "time" in the rulebook for interfering with an NFL investigation (i.e.-conduct detrimental) is much more harsh.

 

[12punch]

matt chatham the man as always

Hilarious "transcript" below the video.

It says "may not be 100% accurate", but it should say "definitely not even 50% accurate".

oh yeah, those transcripts are awesome

I've never figured out why they put them on there

matt chatham (currently blogging at footballbyfootball.com) brought on as a guest on WEEI radio:

Sports radio and WG EI it's NFL Sunday he's Chris price WEEI dot com I'm Greg Dickerson 617. 7797937. Back to your phone calls. In just a few minutes but as we have mentioned a few times during the course of the show. Matt Schaub former patriot now lomb. The man behind football by football dot com

 

[Rubi]

I wonder if they will implement special TV timeouts every 5 minutes this season. They'll have to test and record every game's balls and get them in compliance.

Only for Patriot games

 

[GregR]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

 

[12punch]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

ok

so, you liken turning over a towel to turning over your personal phone for some ####### to rummage through, leak to tmz, and publicly publish.

maybe it was their favorite lucky towel?

shark pool be sharkin'

 

[12punch]

Ted Bruschi's credibilty is now completely gone: http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/ex-patriots-damien-woody-and-tedy-bruschi-argue-over-deflategate.html

bruschi buries woody

probably my favorite part is when he says mcnally's name came up and he thought "who is that??"

 

[GregR]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

ok

so, you liken turning over a towel to turning over your personal phone for some ####### to rummage through, leak to tmz, and publicly publish.

maybe it was their favorite lucky towel?

shark pool be sharkin'

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

 

[espnespn]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

If it mattered, there wouldn't be a rule. Do the crime, do the time.

The time in the rulebook is a 25,000 dollar fine, right?

No, the "time" in the rulebook for the deflating of the balls STARTS at a $25K fine; the "time" in the rulebook for interfering with an NFL investigation (i.e.-conduct detrimental) is much more harsh.

Anyone hoping for a suspension based on obstruction may be disappointed. Bountygate suspension for obstruction was tossed on appeal.

http://espn.go.com/photo/preview/121211/espn_bountyruling.pdf

"The context of previous NFL punishment for obstruction suggests that a seven-game suspension is unprecedented and unwarranted here. In December 2010, the NFL fined Brett Favre $50,000 - - but did not suspend him - - for obstruction of a League sexual harassment investigation. Although not entirely comparable to the present matter, this illustrates the NFL’s practice of fining, not suspending players, for serious violations of this type. There is no evidence of a record of past suspensions based purely on obstructing a League investigation. In my forty years of association with the NFL, I am aware of many instances of denials in disciplinary proceedings that proved to be false, but I cannot recall any suspension for such fabrication. This is not to mitigate in any way the severity of obstruction of an investigation with substantial issues as unique as those involved here."

 

[BroadwayG]

I wonder what the penalty for referees will be if they allow an out of spec football in the game?

This whole thing is so funny. Slap the 25k fine down and move on.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Is a gm sending a text message a big deal? Is it worth a 4 game suspension? Did it give a competitive advantage?

He got a 4 game suspension.

What was worse? What gave more of an advantage? And who lied to the league and didn't comply with the investigation?

 

[AB in DC]

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

This statement defies common sense. Are we supposed to believe that, if Brady handed the phone to his lawyer, and two days later the lawyer tells Wells "Nope, there are no text messages related to the subject matter at hand", then Wells would have dropped it?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Is a gm sending a text message a big deal? Is it worth a 4 game suspension? Did it give a competitive advantage?

He got a 4 game suspension.

What was worse? What gave more of an advantage? And who lied to the league and didn't comply with the investigation?

Yeah, Cleveland can barely hope to survive those 4 games without the GM. That might be the most useless suspension in the history of sports.

That said it should be a foregone conclusion that the NFL is going to suspend Brady. Wells certainly had plenty of opportunities to be critical of how the league handled the matter on the day of the game not to mention the lack of systemic control in regards to measuring the balls for NFL games prior to this situation coming up. Wells went out of his way to not be critical of anything the NFL did related to the balls which would have giving Goodell an out if he decided to not suspend Brady and just levy a fine. People can argue all day on the justification of a suspension but you simply are fooling yourself if you think one is not coming.

 

[Tango]

Keep your socks up and your shirt tucked in or you will lose paychecks!

If it makes no difference in the pressure of the ball there wouldn't be a rule for it.

Those are image related, the amount PSI in the ball is game related.

If it mattered, there wouldn't be a rule. Do the crime, do the time.

The time in the rulebook is a 25,000 dollar fine, right?

No, the "time" in the rulebook for the deflating of the balls STARTS at a $25K fine; the "time" in the rulebook for interfering with an NFL investigation (i.e.-conduct detrimental) is much more harsh.

Anyone hoping for a suspension based on obstruction may be disappointed. Bountygate suspension for obstruction was tossed on appeal.

http://espn.go.com/photo/preview/121211/espn_bountyruling.pdf

"The context of previous NFL punishment for obstruction suggests that a seven-game suspension is unprecedented and unwarranted here. In December 2010, the NFL fined Brett Favre $50,000 - - but did not suspend him - - for obstruction of a League sexual harassment investigation. Although not entirely comparable to the present matter, this illustrates the NFL’s practice of fining, not suspending players, for serious violations of this type. There is no evidence of a record of past suspensions based purely on obstructing a League investigation. In my forty years of association with the NFL, I am aware of many instances of denials in disciplinary proceedings that proved to be false, but I cannot recall any suspension for such fabrication. This is not to mitigate in any way the severity of obstruction of an investigation with substantial issues as unique as those involved here."

The author is making the case for a suspension as much as he is not.

If the NFL doesnt suspend and only fines players insignificant amounts, then they will continue to get stonewalled. Dangerous precedent. The Favre example serves to help Brady as much as it hurts....we'll see.

Brady has to deal with

(1) the crime. A sin, but not at all a mortal sin IMHO

(2) the lies after the fact. This led to BB's science lesson, Kraft's presser and an unnecessary & expensive investigation, and

(3) the obstruction.

I cant imagine he will get out of this w/o a suspension and a stiff fine.

 

[Bayhawks]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

ok

so, you liken turning over a towel to turning over your personal phone for some ####### to rummage through, leak to tmz, and publicly publish.

maybe it was their favorite lucky towel?

shark pool be sharkin'

It's already been established, numerous times, that this wasn't the goal of the Wells investigation. In fact, Brady's agent himself said "the Wells investigative team did ask us to go through Tom’s phone on our own and provide them with information if we chose to go that route."

So, the "he was afraid they'd sell his phone pics to TMZ" nonsense was debunked by Brady's agent himself.

I'm sure you'll ignore that point, though, as you've ignored pretty much anything that doesn't dovetail with your "conspiracy to bring down Tom Brady" theory.

 

[12punch]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

ok

so, you liken turning over a towel to turning over your personal phone for some ####### to rummage through, leak to tmz, and publicly publish.

maybe it was their favorite lucky towel?

shark pool be sharkin'

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

ohhh... I see --- well, these guys certainly seem responsible and trustworthy.

I wouldn't see any reason for the union, brady's agent, and whatever lawyers might be involved to tell him to keep the phone in his pocket.

so, what's the process there --- they only look at texts that include the word 'deflator' in them, or the phrase 'make sure you hide in the bathroom and get that air out of there!', ignoring everything else?

something like that?

what texts from superstar qb and celebrity tom ####### brady were you hoping to find being made to the team's equipment mgr, who I assume he deals with at work on a fairly regular basis, and why can't we get them off the equip mgr's phone?

maybe you'd catch him texting the facility janitor to put extra wax on the floor in the visiting team locker room?

dat towel, tho

 

[davearm]

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

This statement defies common sense. Are we supposed to believe that, if Brady handed the phone to his lawyer, and two days later the lawyer tells Wells "Nope, there are no text messages related to the subject matter at hand", then Wells would have dropped it?

I suspect Wells would use that as further evidence of the lie/coverup/refusal to cooperate, since he and and his team had already discovered messages and phone calls to and from Brady on the equipment guy's phone.

 

[12punch]

I wonder what the penalty for referees will be if they allow an out of spec football in the game?

This whole thing is so funny. Slap the 25k fine down and move on.

or worse, pump an extra 4 pounds into a pats ball to help the jets stay competitive?

shouldn't that guy get a year suspension, or whatever?

 

[Bayhawks]

The other part of this was that the rest of the league should be on notice that the NFL is going to severely punish rules infractions moving forward (whatever that means).

I don't see there's any huge inconsistency going on.

I know people like to bring up the Chargers towels to deflect. The NFL found the towel wasn't a violation, but punished the Chargers for not immediately complying with initial demands by the ref to turn it over, though the Chargers later cooperated fully with the investigation. Afterwards the NFL added a new rule so the issue of legal tacky towels vs illegal would be clear cut (all illegal now unless approved first).

they wouldn't turn over a towel?

why wouldn't they turn over a towel?

Probably for the same reason Brady didn't turn over his texts. Fear it might reveal they did something wrong, in this case whether the tacky surface of it would be considered an illegal substance if they used the towel on the ball.

Though unlike Brady, they did end up turning it over and it was found to not be a violation. Initial resistance to the ref's demand to turn it over for inspection is what got them their fine.

ok

so, you liken turning over a towel to turning over your personal phone for some ####### to rummage through, leak to tmz, and publicly publish.

maybe it was their favorite lucky towel?

shark pool be sharkin'

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

ohhh... I see --- well, these guys certainly seem responsible and trustworthy.

I wouldn't see any reason for the union, brady's agent, and whatever lawyers might be involved to tell him to keep the phone in his pocket.

so, what's the process there --- they only look at texts that include the word 'deflator' in them, or the phrase 'make sure you hide in the bathroom and get that air out of there!', ignoring everything else?

something like that?

what texts from superstar qb and celebrity tom ####### brady were you hoping to find being made to the team's equipment mgr, who I assume he deals with at work on a fairly regular basis, and why can't we get them off the equip mgr's phone?

maybe you'd catch him texting the facility janitor to put extra wax on the floor in the visiting team locker room?

dat towel, tho

What about Brady's agent? He confirmed exactly what the Wells report said. His "logic" in not doing so was "they won't believe us anyway." That was great advice, since now everyone is looking at his refusal to cooperate as evidence that he is hiding something.

Oh, wait, I know! Brady's agent was part of the whole NFL conspiracy sting operation! They must have "turned him" years and years ago, before he signed Brady as his client & planned this all out. Those sneaky, salty haters!

 

[GregR]

Yeah, none of what you said has anything to do with the situation.

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

This statement defies common sense. Are we supposed to believe that, if Brady handed the phone to his lawyer, and two days later the lawyer tells Wells "Nope, there are no text messages related to the subject matter at hand", then Wells would have dropped it?

Since they failed to comply with the request, I can't say.

I don't know what kind of consequences there might be for a lawyer if, say, he did that and then the investigation turned up other evidence he lied (copies of the text on another phone, testimony from someone else who received such a text or call, etc). Is that something that could lead to disbarment? Some lesser sanction? Nothing at all? I have no idea.

For whatever reason, they didn't choose to comply with the request. Do you think not complying makes Brady somehow look better than, say, complying and having the investigators question whether they were honest about it?

 

[rjv]

how about someone intentionally pushes his socks down so that he can stay cooler. That's an equipment violation. How many game suspension should that be? 2? 4?

its not a competitive advantage so this post is just silly

A rule is a rule. Deflating balls isn't a competitive advantage either.

It's not!!!???? I'm with the crowd thinking that this whole situation is silly but a rule is a rule, it was broken so he needs to be punished. By saying it's not a competitive edge by making the balls more comfortable for a QB is just wrong