Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[Mookie]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

 

[moleculo]

"we are totally innocent because you should have caught us the first time you looked."

EDIT: for those keeping score at home, mark the above comment down under "salty hater", not under "objective reviewer of scientific data".

 

[Run It Up]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

 

[12punch]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

if you've ever seen that show 'finding bigfoot', or 'hunting bigfoot', or whatever it's called, you'll see a lot of this same kind of reasoning.

every broken twig, every empty cave, every unexplained noise all become more evidence for bigfoot.

'the deflator' doesn't even normally start work 'til august.

 

[davearm]

"we are totally innocent because you should have caught us the first time you looked."

EDIT: for those keeping score at home, mark the above comment down under "salty hater", not under "objective reviewer of scientific data".

Exactly. Dan Goldberg and the Pats want to make the rules, and then say, "we abided by the rules we made".

Here's the biggest takeaway I got from that latest Florio piece a few posts up:

The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

Every time Goldberg tries to make the case that the Pats cooperated, it just reinforces that they didn't cooperate.

What he keeps asserting is that they cooperated, up until the point that they didn't cooperate because of X Y and Z.

 

[Run It Up]

"we are totally innocent because you should have caught us the first time you looked."

EDIT: for those keeping score at home, mark the above comment down under "salty hater", not under "objective reviewer of scientific data".

Exactly. Dan Goldberg and the Pats want to make the rules, and then say, "we abided by the rules we made".

Here's the biggest takeaway I got from that latest Florio piece a few posts up:

The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

Every time Goldberg tries to make the case that the Pats cooperated, it just reinforces that they didn't cooperate.

What he keeps asserting is that they cooperated, up until the point that they didn't cooperate because of X Y and Z.

What rule are you trying to imply that the Pats are attempting to make?

 

[12punch]

they refused to submit to anal probes

 

[Run It Up]

I wanna know how it took an entire investigative firm more than an hour to go over one man's ####### text history.

Dorito dinks for sure.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

 

[Run It Up]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.

They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

 

[bostonfred]

they refused to submit to anal probes

you're probably joking, but it would make sense. why would anyone take the balls into the men's room unless they had a butt needle? and how would anyone know abouthe dorito dink's nacho cheese package if they hadn't dropped trou in front of one another? They even talked openly about ball preparation - as in Preparation H. The evidence is all right there, but when the investigators went to the Patriots for visual inspections they clearly obstructed the investigation despite every promise to be gentle. They didn't even ask to hold his shoulders.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.

They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

 

[Run It Up]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

 

[12punch]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

 

[Bri]

Reporter: "Does the controversy with the Patriots affect how you feel about the Superbowl?"
"No. No it didn't affect anything," Carroll said at a USC Hall of Fame induction ceremony over the weekend. "I think this was an opportunity for the league to step up and do the right thing. Nobody wants to play this game thinking that somebody has some kind of an advantage, players and fans alike, and so they did the right thing in following up on it, but you know, it was game time, it was ... it didn't have anything to do with that."

 

[ChuckLiddell]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

I am actually not being intentionally dense. My density in this situation is legitimately real. I dont understand your argument. They did nothing wrong, but were suspended because it is easier for the team to avoid defending themselves in the future, but what are they defending themselves from if these 2 loyal innocent employees didnt do anything wrong? And if they did, then what did they do in your opinion to make the organization look bad, because from what I can tell you have been in denial for 210 pages that they actually did anything wrong that would make the organization look bad.

So either they were suspended for doing something wrong, or they were suspended just to somehow avoid the Patriots having to defend themselves (?????). Right?

You say it is a non-issue that they were suspended, but if they were suspended for wrongdoing, it is essentially a sign that the Pats knew of the wrong doing. If so, I would say that logic dictates that they didn't do this on their own volition, so that is indicative that there may have been an order coming down from above. Which makes their suspension more than the non-issue that you are painting it to be. No?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

Not that its relevant, but how do you know he is a better person than me? You dont know me. If you did, you would know that I dont make a habit of cheating and lying to the whole country on national television.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

im pretty sure if they were out right fired that they would be the first ones coming forward blasting the Pats and claiming there own innocence ...they would have no loyalty at that point

 

[ChuckLiddell]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

im pretty sure if they were out right fired that they would be the first ones coming forward blasting the Pats and claiming there own innocence ...they would have no loyalty at that point

You would think..but we have no idea what settlements and non-disclosures are made behind closed doors. Especially those doors.

 

[Old Smiley]

Just to confirm: Suspensions to the equipment guys were actually unpaid?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

Yes, yes they are. Sometimes indefinitely with pay, sometimes without pay, and sometimes 4 games without pay.

 

[Old Smiley]

Checked it out, yes McNally and Yestremsky were suspended without pay. But from this:

"Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by the club, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent. If they are reinstated by the Patriots, Jastremski is prohibited from having any role in the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs to be used in NFL games during the 2015 season. McNally is barred from serving as a locker room attendant for the game officials, or having any involvement with the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs or any other equipment on game day."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mcnally-jastremski-punishment-undermines-patriots-website-2015-5#ixzz3aW6hb5P3

But it looks like the league has to let them back in? Maybe this was "cooperating with the investigation"?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you are a salty hater like me, you have probably relished some of the responses to Deflategate that have come from the Patriots organizations, Boston media, and fans in this thread and elsewhere. If you enjoy pouting from butt-hurt fanboys as much as I do, then you owe it yourself to read this column from today's Herald, which I think may be one of the finest works in this genre:

Only time will tell, but it could be the Patriots have the NFL community right where they want it, so jubilant over its mugging of the New England franchise that it’s yet to realize the monster it’s created.

It was Boston’s own Ralph Waldo Emerson who warned long ago, “If you shoot a king, you’d better make sure he’s dead.”

You hear that a lot in political circles; if a challenge to leadership proves unsuccessful, the retaliation is often merciless.

Machiavelli, centuries earlier, had similar thoughts on the subject: “Never do an enemy a small injury,” he wrote.

That’s what bulletin board material is all about, which means a locker room display of snubs and insults foolishly uttered by opponents.

It’s meant to rile up players, as if their manhood has been challenged so egregiously they’ll be hell-bent to make those impudent loudmouths eat their words.

But yapping off is small potatoes compared to the mob attack inflicted on Tom Brady and the Patriots as the league pummeled them with punishments so draconian that anyone with half a brain could see this had nothing to do with business; indeed, this was strictly personal.

This was payback time. Unable to beat the reigning Super Bowl champions on the field, their envious foes, weary of being cannon fodder for the voracious New England machine, attempted to sack its quarterback and his franchise in a kangaroo court at NFL headquarters, insisting they were doing it to protect the integrity of the game.

Integrity? Please. Ray Rice remains welcome in the NFL fraternity after knocking out his then-fiancee with a vicious punch to her face?

And they say Brady’s character is flawed?

Do they not understand how ridiculous they look?

This is not a hometown point of view. If they’d done it to Peyton Manning, the reaction here would have been the same because, like Brady, the Denver quarterback has long been the epitome of professional demeanor, both on and off the field.

If the pressure in that ball was so significant, why didn’t game officials notice it right away? Don’t they handle the ball as often as Brady does?

As much as the Colts, who led the complaining, might like to believe it, they weren’t trounced 45-7 because of Brady’s grip on the ball in that AFC championship game. They simply lost to a better team.

But this, too, shall pass, and the day is coming when they will look across the line of scrimmage and realize:

The king is all better, and he’s looking for you.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/joe_fitzgerald/2015/05/fitzgerald_tom_brady_patriots_won_t_forgive_or_forget

That is just all kinds of awesome.

 

[12punch]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

Not that its relevant, but how do you know he is a better person than me? You dont know me.

well, he's an awesome person, and you, judging by your posting history, are a bitter little internet troll.

awesome accomplished dude >>>>>> internet troll

I can't say this for fact, but I think it's more probable than not that brady isn't on the net right now whining about you.

 

[12punch]

Just to confirm: Suspensions to the equipment guys were actually unpaid?

ok, well the deflator most likely doesn't get paid at all in the offseason.

think I heard dorito dink's suspension is unpaid -- I'm just assuming he normally works in may

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

Not that its relevant, but how do you know he is a better person than me? You dont know me.

well, he's an awesome person, and you, judging by your posting history, are a bitter little internet troll.

awesome accomplished dude >>>>>> internet troll

I can't say this for fact, but I think it's more probable than not that brady isn't on the net right now whining about you.

Way to make it personal. Thats exactly what one would expect when an argument starts to crumble in the wrong direction...attack the guy that you know nothing about on the other side of the screen from a keyboard.

12Punch be punchin'.

 

[General Tso]

Florio continues to ask the right questions. It does feel like the worm is turning a bit.

The most troubling aspect of the entire situation continues to be the deliberate leak by the league office of ESPNs Chris Mortensen that 11 of the 12 footballs were a full two pounds below the 12.5-PSI minimum.

The leak of false information created a narrative the league never rebutted and fueled the appointment of Wells, which in turn resulted in a scorched-earth search for anything that could be used to support the finding that tampering happened. If the true PSI numbers had been leaked at the outset of the situation (along with the fact that two different gauges with wildly conflicting measurements were used), the Patriots would have been able to explain the objective data away quickly by pointing to the operation Ideal Gas Law

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If you are a salty hater like me, you have probably relished some of the responses to Deflategate that have come from the Patriots organizations, Boston media, and fans in this thread and elsewhere. If you enjoy pouting from butt-hurt fanboys as much as I do, then you owe it yourself to read this column from today's Herald, which I think may be one of the finest works in this genre:

Only time will tell, but it could be the Patriots have the NFL community right where they want it, so jubilant over its mugging of the New England franchise that it’s yet to realize the monster it’s created.

It was Boston’s own Ralph Waldo Emerson who warned long ago, “If you shoot a king, you’d better make sure he’s dead.”

You hear that a lot in political circles; if a challenge to leadership proves unsuccessful, the retaliation is often merciless.

Machiavelli, centuries earlier, had similar thoughts on the subject: “Never do an enemy a small injury,” he wrote.

That’s what bulletin board material is all about, which means a locker room display of snubs and insults foolishly uttered by opponents.

It’s meant to rile up players, as if their manhood has been challenged so egregiously they’ll be hell-bent to make those impudent loudmouths eat their words.

But yapping off is small potatoes compared to the mob attack inflicted on Tom Brady and the Patriots as the league pummeled them with punishments so draconian that anyone with half a brain could see this had nothing to do with business; indeed, this was strictly personal.

This was payback time. Unable to beat the reigning Super Bowl champions on the field, their envious foes, weary of being cannon fodder for the voracious New England machine, attempted to sack its quarterback and his franchise in a kangaroo court at NFL headquarters, insisting they were doing it to protect the integrity of the game.

Integrity? Please. Ray Rice remains welcome in the NFL fraternity after knocking out his then-fiancee with a vicious punch to her face?

And they say Brady’s character is flawed?

Do they not understand how ridiculous they look?

This is not a hometown point of view. If they’d done it to Peyton Manning, the reaction here would have been the same because, like Brady, the Denver quarterback has long been the epitome of professional demeanor, both on and off the field.

If the pressure in that ball was so significant, why didn’t game officials notice it right away? Don’t they handle the ball as often as Brady does?

As much as the Colts, who led the complaining, might like to believe it, they weren’t trounced 45-7 because of Brady’s grip on the ball in that AFC championship game. They simply lost to a better team.

But this, too, shall pass, and the day is coming when they will look across the line of scrimmage and realize:

The king is all better, and he’s looking for you.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/joe_fitzgerald/2015/05/fitzgerald_tom_brady_patriots_won_t_forgive_or_forget

That is just all kinds of awesome.

I wonder, do Boston fans hear this in the godlike voice of John Facenda when they read this.

 

[Old Smiley]

Checked it out, yes McNally and Yestremsky were suspended without pay. But from this:

"Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by the club, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent. If they are reinstated by the Patriots, Jastremski is prohibited from having any role in the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs to be used in NFL games during the 2015 season. McNally is barred from serving as a locker room attendant for the game officials, or having any involvement with the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs or any other equipment on game day."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mcnally-jastremski-punishment-undermines-patriots-website-2015-5#ixzz3aW6hb5P3

But it looks like the league has to let them back in? Maybe this was "cooperating with the investigation"?

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

 

[12punch]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees. Especially the part about "no pay".

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

So Kraft says he believes Brady and that the NFL has no evidence that the Pats tampered with balls before the AFC Championship Game. OK, then why have McNally and Jastremski been suspended indefinitely? Is it because they didn't lose enough weight on "The Deflator" program?

Easier than constantly having to defend themselves in the future? What do they gain by suspending/firing them? Literally nothing. People keep acting like this carries any kind of weight. It's a non-point.

So it is your position that they suspended (without pay) 2 employees, at least one of which has been with them for nearly 2 decades if memory serves despite them being innocent of any infractions because it is "easier than having to defend themselves in the future"? From what? If they are innocent of any wrongdoing, then what do they have to worry about? Just because they suspended them, that means they dont have to defend themselves anymore? I dont understand this rationale at all as anything other than a deflection from the damning evidence that is right in front of your face that you refuse to see.What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

No its my position that they suspended them indefinitely because they are involved in an embarrassing event in a superbowl winning season and the Pats were trying to appease the NFL by saying look, you don't even have to worry about these immature fully grown men in the future.They could have done it for a million different reasons and literally none of them matter at all. It's less than nothing.

So this awesome organization just suspends loyal employees without pay for no reason other than to appease the NFL? They are totally innocent, but the NFL is gonna just turn the other way if they suspend 2 innocent loyal employees? I guess the cheerleaders should be on notice...nobody is safe in the Patriots organization!

People are let go or put on leave all the time for making their employer look bad, warranted or not. You're being intentionally dense.

I am actually not being intentionally dense. My density in this situation is legitimately real. I dont understand your argument. They did nothing wrong, but were suspended because it is easier for the team to avoid defending themselves in the future, but what are they defending themselves from if these 2 loyal innocent employees didnt do anything wrong? And if they did, then what did they do in your opinion to make the organization look bad, because from what I can tell you have been in denial for 210 pages that they actually did anything wrong that would make the organization look bad.

So either they were suspended for doing something wrong, or they were suspended just to somehow avoid the Patriots having to defend themselves (?????). Right?

You say it is a non-issue that they were suspended, but if they were suspended for wrongdoing, it is essentially a sign that the Pats knew of the wrong doing. If so, I would say that logic dictates that they didn't do this on their own volition, so that is indicative that there may have been an order coming down from above. Which makes their suspension more than the non-issue that you are painting it to be. No?

Yet another thing that does not make sense in this whirlwind cover up by the Pats.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

Not that its relevant, but how do you know he is a better person than me? You dont know me.

well, he's an awesome person, and you, judging by your posting history, are a bitter little internet troll.

awesome accomplished dude >>>>>> internet troll

I can't say this for fact, but I think it's more probable than not that brady isn't on the net right now whining about you.

Way to make it personal. Thats exactly what one would expect when an argument starts to crumble in the wrong direction...attack the guy that you know nothing about on the other side of the screen from a keyboard.

12Punch be punchin'.

Yes you can't disagree with some of these Pats guys who turn to personal attacks as a means to change the argument.

 

[12punch]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

 

[Anarchy99]

Florio continues to ask the right questions. It does feel like the worm is turning a bit.

The most troubling aspect of the entire situation continues to be the deliberate leak by the league office of ESPNs Chris Mortensen that 11 of the 12 footballs were a full two pounds below the 12.5-PSI minimum.

The leak of false information created a narrative the league never rebutted and fueled the appointment of Wells, which in turn resulted in a scorched-earth search for anything that could be used to support the finding that tampering happened. If the true PSI numbers had been leaked at the outset of the situation (along with the fact that two different gauges with wildly conflicting measurements were used), the Patriots would have been able to explain the objective data away quickly by pointing to the operation Ideal Gas Law

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

It would be interesting if the league office had nothing to do with the initial leaks and it came from the Colts or the Colts beat reporters. It could have been the Colts talked to the Colts press guy about the Pats being investigated. The press guy then could have talked to Mortensen and exaggerated how underinflated the footballs were. The league itself stays out of it and the thing escalates like it's nobody's business. The league can let imaginations run wild, let the Pats hold press conferences and conduct science experiments, and let them twist in the wind while preparing for the SB. They could also claim they didn't leak anything and that they would not comment on an ongoing investigation.

I personally don't think there was a sting operation the day of the game, but once things started going south for NE they really made no effort to stop the bleeding and essentially didn't care. They liked seeing the Pats squirm.

 

[12punch]

What do they gain by suspending them? Not much and it was probably the wrong move, but it was likely an attempt to give them a scapegoat to place blame upon who is not the golden boy of your franchise, but rather just 2 low level employees who they can live without. Didnt work. Golden boy has been exposed. Aint so golden.

just because tom brady is a far better and more accomplished person than you are doesn't in any way denigrate your own life, you know.

just as trying to bring him down to your level down there in the muck doesn't elevate you in any way.

Not that its relevant, but how do you know he is a better person than me? You dont know me.

well, he's an awesome person, and you, judging by your posting history, are a bitter little internet troll.

awesome accomplished dude >>>>>> internet troll

I can't say this for fact, but I think it's more probable than not that brady isn't on the net right now whining about you.

Way to make it personal. Thats exactly what one would expect when an argument starts to crumble in the wrong direction...attack the guy that you know nothing about on the other side of the screen from a keyboard.

12Punch be punchin'.

Yes you can't disagree with some of these Pats guys who turn to personal attacks as a means to change the argument.

I don't know why you guys have to be so sensitive ---- I already explained brady >>>> you isn't denigration of your own life.

as for the trolling evaluation, let's just say it's more probable than not.

anyway, I thought you guys were proud of your trolling?

 

[davearm]

"we are totally innocent because you should have caught us the first time you looked."

EDIT: for those keeping score at home, mark the above comment down under "salty hater", not under "objective reviewer of scientific data".

Exactly. Dan Goldberg and the Pats want to make the rules, and then say, "we abided by the rules we made".

Here's the biggest takeaway I got from that latest Florio piece a few posts up:

The subject of the investigation cannot hide behind technical procedural arguments, especially when the investigators disagree that there ever was an agreement.

Every time Goldberg tries to make the case that the Pats cooperated, it just reinforces that they didn't cooperate.

What he keeps asserting is that they cooperated, up until the point that they didn't cooperate because of X Y and Z.

What rule are you trying to imply that the Pats are attempting to make?

It's in the stuff posted earlier today:

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

Goldberg attempts to stipulate only one interview per person.

Goldberg attempts to stipulate that Wells must provide him with a reason to have a follow-up interview with McNally.

Goldberg attempts to control Wells' access to information ("if you want some added information from Jim McNally, let me know what it is and I will consider the best way to get relevant information to you")

etc. etc.

What you don't see anywhere is Wells, or anyone else, agreeing to Goldberg's rules.

 

[Anarchy99]

One thing I have been meaning to post/ask was the timeline for all this. Many people have suggested that if Brady and NE fessed up from the get go that this would have blown over and nothing would have happened if Brady got in front of this from jump street. People have stated that if he held a press conference the beginning of the week after the AFCCG and said he likes his footballs prepared a certain way and on the softer side and he instructed the equipment guys roughly how he liked the footballs on game day but never got out a needle to check the inflation or told them to take air out that this would have been over then and there.

I tend to disagree, as the team was already under investigation, the football bag disappeared before the game, the footballs had to be checked at halftime, and things still would have looked funny. Similarly, people would have been calling for Brady to have been suspended for the SB, others would have wanted the Colts to advance and not NE, and we would have ended up where we are now just earlier on.

Had Brady come out and done what I just said, do people really think this would have simply gone away right after the AFCCG without people demanding for Brady's head on a platter?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

 

[12punch]

Florio continues to ask the right questions. It does feel like the worm is turning a bit.

The most troubling aspect of the entire situation continues to be the deliberate leak by the league office of ESPNs Chris Mortensen that 11 of the 12 footballs were a full two pounds below the 12.5-PSI minimum.

The leak of false information created a narrative the league never rebutted and fueled the appointment of Wells, which in turn resulted in a scorched-earth search for anything that could be used to support the finding that tampering happened. If the true PSI numbers had been leaked at the outset of the situation (along with the fact that two different gauges with wildly conflicting measurements were used), the Patriots would have been able to explain the objective data away quickly by pointing to the operation Ideal Gas Law

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/author/floriomj/

It would be interesting if the league office had nothing to do with the initial leaks and it came from the Colts or the Colts beat reporters. It could have been the Colts talked to the Colts press guy about the Pats being investigated. The press guy then could have talked to Mortensen and exaggerated how underinflated the footballs were. The league itself stays out of it and the thing escalates like it's nobody's business. The league can let imaginations run wild, let the Pats hold press conferences and conduct science experiments, and let them twist in the wind while preparing for the SB. They could also claim they didn't leak anything and that they would not comment on an ongoing investigation.

I personally don't think there was a sting operation the day of the game, but once things started going south for NE they really made no effort to stop the bleeding and essentially didn't care. They liked seeing the Pats squirm.

well, I think there are a lot of moving parts in all these kinds of things where you involve a lot of people and all their motivations, but it's pretty clear that the league withheld the true measurements from the pats, and then only communicated them under condition the pats would keep a lid on them.

I don't know who did the actual leaking but someone in the league actively participated in the process.

 

[12punch]

It's in the stuff posted earlier today:

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/nep_psi_excerpts-from-emails-5_15_15.pdf

Goldberg attempts to stipulate only one interview per person.

Goldberg attempts to stipulate that Wells must provide him with a reason to have a follow-up interview with McNally.

Goldberg attempts to control Wells' access to information ("if you want some added information from Jim McNally, let me know what it is and I will consider the best way to get relevant information to you")

etc. etc.

What you don't see anywhere is Wells, or anyone else, agreeing to Goldberg's rules.

so, this is entirely made up

I had asked you in advance what the subject matter was going to be when you asked for another interview of John, since we had an agreement from the outset that, barring extraordinary or unexpected circumstances, each person would be subjected to only one interview by you

ok

 

[12punch]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Why am I "trolling" because I am discussing a topic that interests me? I check in here every 4-5 pages occasionally calling out moronic posts from delusional fanboys, and I am the troll? You appear multiple times on every page, typically calling someone who disagrees with you a name. Not to nitpick, but if one of us is a "troll", it isnt me. Sorry I disagree with you and your buddies in here who refuse to see the whats right in front of them.

His part time employment is irrelevant. There were 2 employees, both of whom were suspended without pay. You dont do that to people who you think are innocent. Adrian Peterson was suspended WITH pay.

 

[Mookie]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Then why the pressing need to suspend him? I mean, if he's off work for the next three months, there's even less of a need to take action against him. And Jastremski ... what about him? He's a full time employee, and he now has no source of income for the foreseeable future. Why did the Pats deal with him so harshly if they did nothing wrong and this is just an atmospheric issue with a weight loss angle?

 

[Run It Up]

Pats fans in a thread about the Patriots. What?

 

[moleculo]

One thing I have been meaning to post/ask was the timeline for all this. Many people have suggested that if Brady and NE fessed up from the get go that this would have blown over and nothing would have happened if Brady got in front of this from jump street. People have stated that if he held a press conference the beginning of the week after the AFCCG and said he likes his footballs prepared a certain way and on the softer side and he instructed the equipment guys roughly how he liked the footballs on game day but never got out a needle to check the inflation or told them to take air out that this would have been over then and there.

I tend to disagree, as the team was already under investigation, the football bag disappeared before the game, the footballs had to be checked at halftime, and things still would have looked funny. Similarly, people would have been calling for Brady to have been suspended for the SB, others would have wanted the Colts to advance and not NE, and we would have ended up where we are now just earlier on.

Had Brady come out and done what I just said, do people really think this would have simply gone away right after the AFCCG without people demanding for Brady's head on a platter?

personally, I believe that had the Patriots mounted their own investigation, caught their guy bringing game balls into an unattended bathroom and let him be the fall-guy, this all gets played out as a rogue agent acting independently. When the Broncos got busted video-taping walk-thrus and hit with a small fine, this is essentially what happened.

Brady goes on record saying that he likes the balls to be especially soft, especially in the cold, and had issues with refs over-inflating balls in the past. His guys took it upon themselves to make sure the refs didn't do that again, especially in a game as important as a championship game, but by no means did he instruct anyone to break any NFL rules, and from here-on out, the Patriots brass will be ever-vigilant to ensure every employee within the organization holds themselves up to a standard worthy of being a World Champion. Maybe toss something in there about how the organization learned their lessons from Spygate, and how ethics is priority number one in Foxboro and bending the rules is not tolerated.

Had this all happened, we would not be talking about this issue in May.

 

[moleculo]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Why am I "trolling" because I am discussing a topic that interests me? I check in here every 4-5 pages occasionally calling out moronic posts from delusional fanboys, and I am the troll? You appear multiple times on every page, typically calling someone who disagrees with you a name. Not to nitpick, but if one of us is a "troll", it isnt me. Sorry I disagree with you and your buddies in here who refuse to see the whats right in front of them.

His part time employment is irrelevant. There were 2 employees, both of whom were suspended without pay. You dont do that to people who you think are innocent. Adrian Peterson was suspended WITH pay.

ChuckLiddell> if ever there was an example of someone deserving of the ignore feature, this is the guy. 12punch has shown time and time again that he is incapable of adult conversation. You are wasting your electrons.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Pats fans in a thread about the Patriots. What?

Agreed. NFL fans commenting in an NFL thread = troll though?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Not to quote myself, but am I seeing that, yes the Pats suspended them, but that the league has disallowed them from doing their jobs?

yeah, the league banned them from dealing with equipment and they'd need to get that privilege back through vincent (the league)

nothing unusual about any of this

No, nothing. Happens all the time to completely innocent, loyal employees . Especially the part about "no pay".

so, you think the deflator should be getting paid right now?

No, I think he is completely guilty, and I believe the Pats organization basically agrees with me based upon the punishment.

Assuming that to be correct, I see no reason why he would have done this without being instructed to by someone above him. If you use logic and connect the dots, they do seem to lead right to your golden boy. Whether there is enough proof to convict him a a real court - no idea. A lot of the potential proof probably was not allowed to be seen by the investigating team. But I see enough smoke to determine that there is probably a fire.

I also understand your need to defend your guy. I dont appreciate how you do it, but I understand it. I'm a fanboy too, and if I was lucky enough to have a golden boy on my golden-boy-devoid team and his legacy was going down in flames before my eyes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

you seem a little hung up on 'golden boys'

just as an aside, not that it's relevant to anything, but just for accuracy in your future trolling --- you do understand the deflator is a part-time gameday guy who doesn't work 'til august, right?

kind of a nitpick, but you do understand this?

Then why the pressing need to suspend him? I mean, if he's off work for the next three months, there's even less of a need to take action against him. And Jastremski ... what about him? He's a full time employee, and he now has no source of income for the foreseeable future. Why did the Pats deal with him so harshly if they did nothing wrong and this is just an atmospheric issue with a weight loss angle?

I continue to wonder about this aspect of things as well. In the court of law with these guys under the oath I am sure we would get some pretty vital pieces of information.

I am guessing Brady at some stage along the way passed on information to these guys that he loves his footballs at a lower inflation rate and they should do what they can to make sure this happens. Brady would not have wanted to know how it was getting done or when and probably not even the specifics. His defense will be that ya I like my footballs lower inflated and I told the guys that, but I did not tell them to cheat in doing so.

That might be the only way I see Brady and Kraft getting out of this.

 

[Run It Up]

The Pats did do an internal investigation, it's how they discovered the video of Mcnally taking the bags into the restroom among other things. But they found that atmospheric conditions explained the difference thinking Mcnally was innocent.