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Patriots discussing the possibility of Vincent Jackson... (1 Viewer)
The Indestructible
Footballguy
If VJax were traded, how soon could he play for the Patriots this season? Week 10?
identikit
Footballguy
Here's the article from Tom Curran:
Patriots, Chargers talking deal for Vincent Jackson
Oct 7, 2010
By Tom E. Curran
CSNNE.com
The Patriots have looked into the possibility of dealing for Chargers wide receiver Vincent Jackson, a source confirmed Thursday night.
Talks are preliminary at this point but the idea of the Patriots acquiring Jackson in exchange for Logan Mankins is in play.
Mankins and Jackson are in identical contractual situations. They are restricted free agents in their fifth seasons in the league. Had the expiring CBA not intervened, both would have been free agents last offseason. Both men have opted to sit out rather than play for their tender offers.
Jackson, a 2009 Pro Bowl alternate, was placed on the roster exempt list by San Diego in the offseason. He will have to sit out three games if and when he's traded.
According to Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune, the asking price for Jackson is a second and third-round pick to an NFC; a first and a second to an AFC team.
Again, it's early in the process and the Patriots are exploring several possibilities for shoring up their receiver corps in the wake of the Randy Moss deal. How serious their conversations are, we'll soon find out.
http://www.csnne.com/10/07/10/Pats-Charger...amp;feedID=6150
Patriots, Chargers talking deal for Vincent Jackson
Oct 7, 2010
By Tom E. Curran
CSNNE.com
The Patriots have looked into the possibility of dealing for Chargers wide receiver Vincent Jackson, a source confirmed Thursday night.
Talks are preliminary at this point but the idea of the Patriots acquiring Jackson in exchange for Logan Mankins is in play.
Mankins and Jackson are in identical contractual situations. They are restricted free agents in their fifth seasons in the league. Had the expiring CBA not intervened, both would have been free agents last offseason. Both men have opted to sit out rather than play for their tender offers.
Jackson, a 2009 Pro Bowl alternate, was placed on the roster exempt list by San Diego in the offseason. He will have to sit out three games if and when he's traded.
According to Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune, the asking price for Jackson is a second and third-round pick to an NFC; a first and a second to an AFC team.
Again, it's early in the process and the Patriots are exploring several possibilities for shoring up their receiver corps in the wake of the Randy Moss deal. How serious their conversations are, we'll soon find out.
http://www.csnne.com/10/07/10/Pats-Charger...amp;feedID=6150
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captain_amazing
Footballguy
I would also like to know, if anyone could enlighten us.
texansfan80
Footballguy
Thu, Oct 7
ESPN's Adam Schefter believes that a Jackson-to-New England deal is "not happening."
Recommendation: The Patriots just traded Randy Moss and are armed with a boatload of draft picks, so there has been speculation, but Schefter points out that Jackson's off-field issues, coupled with what it would take to satisfy his contract demands make him a poor fit for the Patriots. Anything is possible of course, but the odds of this deal happening seem slim.
(Rotowire.com)
ESPN's Adam Schefter believes that a Jackson-to-New England deal is "not happening."
Recommendation: The Patriots just traded Randy Moss and are armed with a boatload of draft picks, so there has been speculation, but Schefter points out that Jackson's off-field issues, coupled with what it would take to satisfy his contract demands make him a poor fit for the Patriots. Anything is possible of course, but the odds of this deal happening seem slim.
(Rotowire.com)
Man In The Box
Footballguy
So, in other words, we should expect a deal by tomorrow afternoon-ish.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
If they could get him for Mankins straight up it makes sense.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I asked a couple folks earlier in the week after the Moss trade and they didn't seem to think there was going to be a lot of exploration into Jackson, but who knows if things have picked up since then.I may be misreading Curran's comments, but I get the impression he means INTERNAL discussions have started. So they may have asked SD what they wanted and that's it.I really don't see SD and NE trading with each other, as they are both usually in the hunt at the end of the season. Stranger things have happened though.
Masked Vigilante
Footballguy
What a crazy week if this all goes down. I don't even do this in Madden.
shadyridr
Footballguy
he was a wr1 last yr
Bigdee
Footballguy
That was Shefter on Twitter yesterday. Michael Lombardi also tweeted similar sentiment. While I sure as hell don't hold Tom Curran in the same regard as Lombardi and Shefter, his info is more recent. I am curious to see how this develops. VJax is currently on the waiver wire. Would LOVE to snag him if this even smells like it is going to happen.
I
ianfitzy
Guest
Tom Curran might not be the most national source but he tends to have a decent idea on the happenings of the Patriots. He is a Pats fanboy but doing so has earned him some access.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
He also suggested/predicted/proffered that Tom Brady might miss part of the 2009 season with repeated infections and surgeries from botched knee surgery. Sometimes he's right on, other times he's way off.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
This just doesn't seem like a New England move. Don't see it happening
Very
I would be shocked if this went down. The NE front office doesn't usually make deals like this.
Neofight
Footballguy
Well, I'm not endorsing this or claiming it has a chance in hell of happening... but having said that, for one it may not be much of a downgrade (if at all), and Jackson is 6 years Randy's junior.If the Patriots wanted a legit #1, there are very few options and Jackson is at the top of that list. On the other hand, I think they have all the receiving weapons they need to be successful right now (though I realize I'm in the minority there).
I
ianfitzy
Guest
Reading the article might help... I doubt any trade will happen but the talks being discussed are something along the lines of swapping Mankins and V-Jax. Not sure how it would work but doesn't look like the Pats are looking to trade a 1st and 3rd.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I believe the logic would be to trade a G and a WR that you couldn't bring back for a WR that is much younger than Moss and sign him to a multi-year deal. It may turn into the equivalent of Moss and Mankins for Jackson. On paper that looks like a lot, but if Moss was peeved and not willing to go 100% and Mankins was never coming back, it could looked at getting something of use for a couple guys that were clearly a problem.
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
What is he right now?
To commish is my wish
Footballguy
Two phone calls and a press conference from being a Top 3 WR.
Ronnie Lott's Manicurist
Footballguy
I really cannot imagine this happening. The Patriots won't pay the money Jackson wants.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I highly doubt this happens.
This article by Acee lends credence to Curran's story while at the same time completely shooting down the chance this will happen: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oc..._medium=twitter
identikit
Footballguy
Update from Tom Curran:
UPDATE: According to a media source in San Diego, the Chargers are not interested in dealing for Mankins. Additionally, it should be noted that a player must be under contract to be traded. Jackson would have to sign his restricted free agent tender offer before he could be dealt.
UPDATE: According to a media source in San Diego, the Chargers are not interested in dealing for Mankins. Additionally, it should be noted that a player must be under contract to be traded. Jackson would have to sign his restricted free agent tender offer before he could be dealt.
Dang it!!! Just picked him up too! Ah well, guess I will keep him now as a dynasty prospect.
To commish is my wish
Footballguy
dagwood
Footballguy
Pretty sure they can talk trade without him being signed. If they reach an agreement and the team reaches a contract extension agreement then they all sit down at a conference table and he signs the deal with SD and then they trade him.
:X
captain_amazing
Footballguy
If V-Jax is in the same situation as Mankins, he can be traded. It doesn't matter that they didn't sign their tender. Both teams still have (own?) the players' rights, even though they aren't under contract.I'm sure someone else could explain it better.dagwood said:Pretty sure they can talk trade without him being signed. If they reach an agreement and the team reaches a contract extension agreement then they all sit down at a conference table and he signs the deal with SD and then they trade him.To commish is my wish said:Deaddawg said:
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Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Vincent Jackson is 27 and pissed off at the Chargers. Randy Moss is 33 and pissed off at the Patriots. Oakland will tell you that a pissed off Moss isn't exactly the same as a non-pissed off Moss.CalBear said:
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Moss would tell you that playing for the Raiders isn't exactly the same as playing for the Patriots. And that catching passes from Andrew Walter isn't exactly the same as catching passes from Tom Brady.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
If Moss loved Brady and the Patriots so much, he'd still be there. Randy is about Randy.The point is that folks are indicating NE lost a TON by giving up Randy Moss, and that may be true.But the other side of that is that so far this year, he's caught 9 balls for 139 yards in 3 games, and he was obviously not happy where he was. So how much is THAT Randy Moss worth to the team? It was starting to look a lot like the Oakland Randy Moss to me, and maybe it did to NE as well.Honestly, that's really the only explanation for why a title contender would give up a player as good as Moss for a 3rd round pick when they don't have an obvious replacement for him on the team.
Both VJax and Mankins would have to sign their tenders before they could be traded but a new contract with their new team would be part of the agreement to sign the tenders.If V-Jax is in the same situation as Mankins, he can be traded. It doesn't matter that they didn't sign their tender. Both teams still have (own?) the players' rights, even though they aren't under contract.I'm sure someone else could explain it better.dagwood said:Pretty sure they can talk trade without him being signed. If they reach an agreement and the team reaches a contract extension agreement then they all sit down at a conference table and he signs the deal with SD and then they trade him.To commish is my wish said:Deaddawg said:
Cassius
Footballguy
Neither can be traded without signing their tenders first.If V-Jax is in the same situation as Mankins, he can be traded. It doesn't matter that they didn't sign their tender. Both teams still have (own?) the players' rights, even though they aren't under contract.I'm sure someone else could explain it better.dagwood said:Pretty sure they can talk trade without him being signed. If they reach an agreement and the team reaches a contract extension agreement then they all sit down at a conference table and he signs the deal with SD and then they trade him.To commish is my wish said:Deaddawg said:
David Yudkin
Footballguy
The main argument that the offense will suffer stems from Moss taking the top off the defense by drawing double coverage and opening up the middle of the field and underneath routes for the other receivers. That would happen whether Moss had 9 catches or 29 catches at this point.So the big debate will be whether getting more players involved in the offense, trying to return to the hitting the open man philosophy, migrating back to a dink and dunk offense, and some additional reliance on the ground game and a ball control style of play will hurt or help NE. Not having Moss should translate to fewer points scored, so I am reluctant to say that not having Moss helps the offense. But if the offense can sustain more drives and take time more off the clock, that could help keep the defense off the field and could also result in fewer points allowed with fewer plays for the opponents.But I'm not really buying that Moss was a prima donna and a cancer in the clubhouse and they had to move him. It sounds like he was starting to get puty and irritating so they moved him before he got to a point where they couldn't coexist.
Cassius
Footballguy
I don't think that will be a "big debate" at all. No reasonable person can say with a straight face that trading Moss had something to with making the offense better this year or even getting a 3rd round pick. The only way this trade makes sense is if Belichick & Co. thought that Moss was going to turn into Oakland-Moss and decided that with all the weapons they have, he simply wasn't worth the headache.
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BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
Really? After a nice win to start things off, he holds a press conference to state his personal objectives (getting paid). You think Bill doesn't have a problem with that and whatever else we don't see/hear? He's not a prima donna or cancer but "it sounds like he was getting pouty and irritating". Um, HELLO???Oh sure, we can argue the size of the tumor, fine, but if you're saying there wasn't one, I think you're off your rocker. Why then, all of a sudden, is he gone? Teams don't just get up and trade a top player, especially mid-season, unless there are serious issues. And when has he not been a prima donna? His whole career he's been one, save for the times we didn't have to hear about it, thankfully. You know, when he was getting everything he wanted, and more.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I suggest you tune in to Boston talk radio, nightly cable talk, or visit Pats message boards because there are a TON of people here who not only thing Moss being gone will make the Pats a better team but also a better offense.I'm not saying that as a knock against you, but a knock against the SCORES of people suggesting that getting rid of Moss was the best thing that could happen to them. I personally think they are nuts and have been taking mind altering drugs. But there are a ton of folks thinking this is a great situation now for NE.
Workhorse
Footballguy
They're delusional. Plain and simple. The more I hear from Moss, Belichick and the rest of the current team about the trade, the more I think that this was engineered more by the Krafts than Belichick. Just a gut feeling.
Cassius
Footballguy
Well, that's fine, I've been listening to WEEI, but I think we both know they're all just moving in the in Belichick we trust heard. Funny how 24 hours before the trade there weren't many calls to the Big Show emphatically arguing that "the offense would really take off if we could only get rid of that Randy Moss guy! We should get rid of him, maybe get a 3rd round pick back!"
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road warrior
Footballguy
How typical.
Media gets caught with their pants down on the Moss story, and now they overcompensate by tying every wideout to the Pat's. Next week it will probably be Jerry Rice.
Media gets caught with their pants down on the Moss story, and now they overcompensate by tying every wideout to the Pat's. Next week it will probably be Jerry Rice.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I think this whole angle of him being self-absorbed is getting blown out of proportion. Sure, he shot his mouth off about his contract. Lots of players do that.What I'm saying is that tons of people in and around the Pats have been asked about how Moss was and what led up to this. His teammates were stunned to learn he was traded and they all felt he was a good presence in the locker room, a good teammate, he went out and put forth effort on the field, etc.
He wasn't pimping for a reality show, holding up goofy signs or signing balls in games with a sharpie, he wasn't crying to people how much he got the ball, he wasn'thaving nightly press conferences like Manny did to bad mouth the team (again with the exception of the CIN game).
I'm not saying he was perfect, but in today's day and age he was not as bad as many other players. He wanted an extension and wasn't going to get it from the Pats. I'm not saying he handled it well, but from what I have heard the Pats wanted to cut him off at the pass if he was going to get worse as the season progressed and they opted to get a pick for him rather then get nothing for him in a few months.
I heard a lengthly interview with Bert Breer (just left the Globe to go to the NFL Network) who said he was not that unbearable yet and far more players wanted Moss around than the handful that were glad that he was gone. He also echoed that this potentially was the tip of the iceberg and rather than potentially have Moss go into a downward spiral, they traded him to get piece of mind, get something for him while they still could, and move on sooner rather than later.
The Pats do weird things. They ran Seymour out of town, and at the time they did it he wasn't doing anything to mandate that he had to go. The Boston area and media are notorious for villifying players once they leave and laying all the dirty laundry on extra thick.
Moss did three things in 6 months that were openly unacceptible: complain about his contract in the off season at a golf event, complain about his contract after the CIN game, and wear headphones at a Kraft sponsored charity event. Lots of guys complain about contracts.
I agree that if they really wanted him they would have kept him, so the question becomes why did they not want him? Maybe put another way, most people would have had no problem if they kept him. Clearly it sounds like there is more to the story than meets the eye and we may never know. Many people think this was a personality conflict between BB and Moss and that there really wasn't much beyond that.
Remember that the history for Moss and NE and his contract has always been an issue. He took a huge pay cut in moving from OAK to NE. After his monster 2007 season, they negotiated past the midnight hour into free agency and he almost signed with PHI for more money than NE. A number of other (seemingly inferior) WR around the league signed big deal over the past few seasons and Moss wanted to be paid like them. It appears that the Pats never even made an attempt to talk to him about an extension this time around. It sounds like Moss' perception was that as soon as they took care of Brady they would take care of him. But they never even talked to him after they signed Brady.
I'm not condoning what Moss did after that, but that's why he was disgruntled. I would say that if that makes him a spoiled brat and totally self-centered than half the guys in the league would fall in that category.
All the stuff that has come out since has been basically wild speculation and reporters trying to blow things out of proportion. First it was that BB and Moss had a huge fight the day after the MIA game when they never even say each other. Then apparently there was an altercation at halftime or another one on the flight home, yet no one has confirmed that any of that happened. Now there are partial stories of things that "could" have happened at practice from 3 years ago. Like I said, there are a lot of people stirring the pot after the fact.
If Moss had went down with a torn ACL, people would be saying the Pats couldn't survive with out him and the season was over. But trade him away and he becomes the biggest loser to ever don a Pats uniform.
Boston
Footballguy
While I don't see Jackson coming here due to the money he's reported to be seeking how could anyone be surprised if he did. The Pats traded for both Corey Dillon and Randy Moss so they are no strangers to taking on questionable personalties (both took pay-cuts though). That being said it appears BB is trying to go back to the Patriots "team-first" roots that gave them so much success in the first half of the past decade.
As for Moss leaving my guess is this means the Pats had zero intentions of re-signing him and they probably felt that things could get real dicey as the season wore on. The Pats have a really tough schedule coming up and a few loses combined with Randy Moss being unhappy about his contract seemed like a recipe for disaster. Overall I think the Pats got their money's worth out of Moss and a divorce was inevitable...just totally unexpected coming at the beginning of October.
As for Moss leaving my guess is this means the Pats had zero intentions of re-signing him and they probably felt that things could get real dicey as the season wore on. The Pats have a really tough schedule coming up and a few loses combined with Randy Moss being unhappy about his contract seemed like a recipe for disaster. Overall I think the Pats got their money's worth out of Moss and a divorce was inevitable...just totally unexpected coming at the beginning of October.
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