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Pats/Saints Trade (1 Viewer)
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diesel7982
Footballguy
Man. Far fall for Sullivan.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
If Bethel couldn't make in-roads into the depleted Patriots WR corps . . .
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Caldwell and Chad Jackson, bump up. Even though Bethel wasn't gonna cut into their prodcution much anyway. Ncie to see him gone.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
This is a classic case of one man's trash = another man's treasure
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Per The Blogger......
June 5, 2006, 14:18
Patriots, Saints :: WR, DL
WR Johnson Traded For DL Sullivan
Michael Felger, Boston Herald - [Full Article]
The Patriots today traded disappointing fourth-year receiver Bethel Johnson to the New Orleans Saints for veteran defensive lineman Johnathan Sullivan, the No. 6 overall pick in 2003, according to sources.
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/...rticleid=142279
June 5, 2006, 14:18
Patriots, Saints :: WR, DL
WR Johnson Traded For DL Sullivan
Michael Felger, Boston Herald - [Full Article]
The Patriots today traded disappointing fourth-year receiver Bethel Johnson to the New Orleans Saints for veteran defensive lineman Johnathan Sullivan, the No. 6 overall pick in 2003, according to sources.
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/...rticleid=142279
Aaronstory
Footballguy
Is this in anyway a precursor to Stallworth getting dealt?
saintfool
Dead sexy
saints needed some experience in the WR corps. Behind Horn and Stallworth, there really wasn't much experience. Henderson, Poole and the rookie Hass don't offer a lot of on the field product. Bethel, like Hakim last year, offers a lots of speed and is experienced.
Sullivan likely ate himself out of NOLA. He could be productive in NE. Likely he will respond better to a coach like Belichek than he did to Haslett or the newbie Payton.
Sullivan likely ate himself out of NOLA. He could be productive in NE. Likely he will respond better to a coach like Belichek than he did to Haslett or the newbie Payton.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Sullivan is still very young.
If he can get his mind and body working together,
this will be a steal of a trade for New England.
If he can get his mind and body working together,
this will be a steal of a trade for New England.
The_Hunchback
Footballguy
Nice stretch.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
The Payton house-cleaning continues. An unproductive player who has serious self-dsiclipline/weight-problems -- good riddance.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Saints | B. Johnson acquired in trade
Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:32:08 -0700
Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the New Orleans Saints have traded DL Johnathan Sullivan to the New England Patriots for WR Bethel Johnson.
Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:32:08 -0700
Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the New Orleans Saints have traded DL Johnathan Sullivan to the New England Patriots for WR Bethel Johnson.
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Patriots are deep on the defensive line but need WRs. Not sure I understand this move from their perspective, but maybe they can get more out of Sullivan than the Saints have so far. Not sure how Bethel Johnson fits in for the Saints either. They already have a great returner in Michael Lewis and I don't see him cracking the top 3 WR spots.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I know that Bethel Johnson has been complaining about a lack of playing time. A vote of confidence for Chad Jackson, I guess.
Sorry. This is a Honda already.
Sorry. This is a Honda already.
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saintfool
Dead sexy
Oh, I'm not penciling him as the #3 WR but he's been in the league longer than Henderson. Henderson, after a disappointing rookie season, was pressed into service with the Horn injury. Otherwise, he didn't do much. Poole is comparable but has bounced around the league. At least Johnson has experience on a winning franchise with, more or less, a single system in place.
T Man
Footballguy
This is a steal for the Pats. The talk was that Bethel was going to have a hard time making the roster. So they don't lose much.
Sullivan has loads of talent, he just doesn't have the desire. If BB can get him turned around, it will provide huge dividends. He must be REALLY OUT of shape for the Saints to do this.
Sullivan has loads of talent, he just doesn't have the desire. If BB can get him turned around, it will provide huge dividends. He must be REALLY OUT of shape for the Saints to do this.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i think the writng was on the wall with the addition of hollis thomas in a draft day trade. woodward, leisle and thomas can all contribute along with the other projected starter young. sulli was a bust as a saint. stats?2003 New Orleans 14 games/26 solo tackles/8 assists/34 total tackles/1 sack
2004 New Orleans 7 games/11 solo/4 assists/15 total/.5 sack
2005 New Orleans 15 games/20solo/9assists/29total/0 sacks
Sidewinder
Footballguy
A steal ? Hardly. One team's trash for another team's trash. All indications that neither would have made their respective teams.As far as Sullivan having loads of talent -- if he does, he certainly hasn't shown it in 3 years in the NFL. He had a chance to wipe the slate clean with an entirely new coaching staff coming in, but instead he decides not to participate in the OTA's, shows up at mini-camp overweight and late for one of the practice sessions.
T Man
Footballguy
You get no argument from me that Sullivan was a bust for the Saints. But he was a top 6 bust. Johnson was a bust for the Pats.I see Sullivan as a talented DL, and if BB can get him anywhere near his potential, this will be a steal.
As for the Saints, its not good when you trade a player for being out of shape and his prosepctive replacement, Hollis Thomas shows up out of shape. My guess is that the Saints figured they could dump a little salary as well making the trade more palatable.
Since from appearances Payton hasn't taking much of a liking to Stallworth, like others, I wonder if the trade for Johnson is a precursor of a trade of Stallworth.
Great trade for the Pats. I would guess Johnson would have been gone anyways so they may as well get something for him. He's fast but can't run routes and has questionable hands.
I doubt Sullivan turns into anything in NE but I'd make this trade every day and twice on Sunday if I was NE.
I doubt Sullivan turns into anything in NE but I'd make this trade every day and twice on Sunday if I was NE.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
We'll agree to disagree on the "talented" part in regards to Sullivan. At this point, it doesn't matter when he was drafted, he has shown little in 3 years -- a basic chronic underachiever. And the difference between him and Thomas is, Thomas has shown he can play and be productive in the league. I don't think the staff is too worried about Thomas at this point. He's got the type of attitude they want here, and they're getting rid of the ones who don't (Sully).re: dumping salary. Well, he had an $11 mil signing bonus IIRC, so this accelerates a good chunk of money into 06 and 07. I think this was much more about sending a message than it was anything else. Will Stallworth be next ? Hard to say, but the housecleaning ain't done yet...
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Not quite.The SD/SF trade made sense from a position need standpoint, but both players are just about worthless.seems a lot like the Davis/Woods trade.
Sullivan is worthless in NO, but in New England, who knows. He's got talent.
The NE/NO trade makes no sense from a position need standpoint, but both players have some potential that could be realized from a fresh start. Sounds like people are really down on Johnson in this thread but I had him pegged as a possible sleeper in some really deep leagues(Caldwell in a new sytem and a poor blocker/Jackson a rookie playing in a complicated offense). Now Johnson is completely off my radar and if anything this trade actually dings down a few NE DL from a fantasy perspecitve.
Mr. Yankee
Footballguy
Junk for junk.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ok, you're right on the needs. But then, who is NO's return specialist?Looks like it's Stecker? Bennett? NFL.com is probably outdated.Not quite.The SD/SF trade made sense from a position need standpoint, but both players are just about worthless.
Sullivan is worthless in NO, but in New England, who knows. He's got talent.
The NE/NO trade makes no sense from a position need standpoint, but both players have some potential that could be realized from a fresh start. Sounds like people are really down on Johnson in this thread but I had him pegged as a possible sleeper in some really deep leagues(Caldwell in a new sytem and a poor blocker/Jackson a rookie playing in a complicated offense). Now Johnson is completely off my radar and if anything this trade actually dings down a few NE DL from a fantasy perspecitve.
Patriots don't "need" Sullivan, but the risk is worth it.
Boston
Footballguy
Nice move by the Pats. There's no downside to it. Bethel was a longshot to make the team this year. The kid has some serious athletic skills but he's just not onboard with the BB program. He has been regressing since he came into the league and unfortunately he's not mature enough to realize it. Last year his return skills actually took a step backwards and he was replaced by Hobbs in that area making Bethel's value about nil.
As for Sullivan he was highly touted coming out of Georgia and has been a bust since putting on the Saints uniform. It seems like his head has not been on straight since leaving Athens. There was a lot of speculation he would end up with the Pats in the draft but thankfully the Pats ended up with Ty Warren instead. While he was expected to be a building block with the Saints he will be fighting for a backup position with the Pats. Therefore there is absolutely no downside for the Pats. They aren't counting on him and they gave up nothing to get him. If BB can tap into this kids talent this could be a huge steal. He's young, big and has talent. While the Pats have four studs on the D line the depth after that is a little dicey. If Sullivan pulls a Gerard Warren and gets rejuvanated this could make the Pats D line ridiculously good as Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and Green are all still getting better. In all honesty if he simply becomes a quality backup/rotation guy that's a great addition. If the kid still doesn't get it than you cut him, move on and lose absolutely nothing.
This is a really smart move for the Pats. There's no definite here but the upside far outweighs the downside. At the end of the day both of these guys may never get out of neutral but I'd much rather be rolling the dice on a 300+ D lineman that was a former #6 pick only three years ago.
As for Sullivan he was highly touted coming out of Georgia and has been a bust since putting on the Saints uniform. It seems like his head has not been on straight since leaving Athens. There was a lot of speculation he would end up with the Pats in the draft but thankfully the Pats ended up with Ty Warren instead. While he was expected to be a building block with the Saints he will be fighting for a backup position with the Pats. Therefore there is absolutely no downside for the Pats. They aren't counting on him and they gave up nothing to get him. If BB can tap into this kids talent this could be a huge steal. He's young, big and has talent. While the Pats have four studs on the D line the depth after that is a little dicey. If Sullivan pulls a Gerard Warren and gets rejuvanated this could make the Pats D line ridiculously good as Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and Green are all still getting better. In all honesty if he simply becomes a quality backup/rotation guy that's a great addition. If the kid still doesn't get it than you cut him, move on and lose absolutely nothing.
This is a really smart move for the Pats. There's no definite here but the upside far outweighs the downside. At the end of the day both of these guys may never get out of neutral but I'd much rather be rolling the dice on a 300+ D lineman that was a former #6 pick only three years ago.
bostonfred
Footballguy
One of the Patriots' biggest problems as a 3-4 defense with a thin linebacking corps is stopping the run. They need big bodies to keep their front line from getting tired, and to stop the run on a must-stop first down. In 2002, the Patriots went through a brutal stretch defending the run that kept them out of the playoffs. In 2005, their defense failed them again. This year, instead of drafting a linebacker early, they went all offense. I'm happy with virtually any free agent signing to bolster this D.
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
This may be an indication that the Pats will play more to the team's strengths this year, and play a little more 4-3 D. They are absolutely stacked on the Dline, and using only 3 of those guys at a time, while putting someone like Monty Beisel or Banta-Cain in there makes me scratch my head. Teams can absolutely NOT run on New England while theyre set up in a 4-3. Seymour can play either end or tackle, so he can be moved in or out, and teams just cant match up with him and Wilfork and two other beasts on that line. That would leave Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin at LBs, which imo is their best front 7 lineup. Their secondary WILL be improved this year. And the front 7 will be a major reason.
Im willing to give Sullivan a bye after not getting anything done for the Saints. Some big players just dont seem to play well on turf. If I were a 315 guy, I wouldnt want to smash myself against other giants on concrete either. Let the guy play with some winners for a while on grass, and lets see what happens.
Im willing to give Sullivan a bye after not getting anything done for the Saints. Some big players just dont seem to play well on turf. If I were a 315 guy, I wouldnt want to smash myself against other giants on concrete either. Let the guy play with some winners for a while on grass, and lets see what happens.
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
Bethel is one of the coolest young people I've ever met. I've had many athletes in class (I've taught at both Clemson and A&M), Bethel being one of the few to play beyond college. He showed up for class every day and had a great attitude. I thought New England was a great fit for him, as I trust that he always gives his all. Hopefully N.O. can find a role for him. Nothing fantasy related to hear here, but I'm a Bethel fan for who he is off the field (we don't hear that enough IMHO).
Yoda of the JediKnights
Footballguy
The Saints need to protect their new PR Bush, since he is going to be a rather expensive part-time scat-back.
Yoda
Yoda
as was mentioned, pretty strong indications either could be cut. It seems like a yard sale trade, one man's trash is another's treasureBoth have talent but really haven't used it well in the pros as of yet. Bethel can be mind numbingly fast, as you probably know, and IIRC Michael lewis is overcoming an injury so maybe the Saints want an extra return man.
Patriots are deep on the defensive line but need WRs. Not sure I understand this move from their perspective, but maybe they can get more out of Sullivan than the Saints have so far. Not sure how Bethel Johnson fits in for the Saints either. They already have a great returner in Michael Lewis and I don't see him cracking the top 3 WR spots.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
That's got to be the first *porn star* gloss I've seen in FF.
