PBS Frontline : The Retirement Gamble, sorta Must See (2 Viewers)

[NutterButter]

Just keep in mind that a target fund is probably costing you approximately a few grand every year as well as all that glorious compounding interest on that lost money.

Mind showing the math on that? For what it's worth, I think you are way off

Here's what makes up Vanguard's Target funds, and their respective fees:

Total Stock Market: 0.17%
International Stock Index: 0.22%
Total Bond Index: 0.10%
International Bond Index: 0.23%
TIPS Index: 0.20%

Vanguard's Target funds charge between 0.16-0.18% ER fee. The additional cost of the target fund is virtually negligible

Here's what I have in my fidelity 401k from old job. The Freedom 2040 fund has an expense ration of .75%. The total market index fund has an expense ration of .07%. That's a big difference and would mean at least a grand if you had say 200k in your account. Vanguard's looks like its significantly lower, but I'd definitely check and do the math for those thinking about using a targeted fund.

Current 401k from benefit consultants whoever the eff they are is .45% for a large cap index and 1.25% for a 2040 target fund. So an even greater difference.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

I am a horrible saver and spend a pretty good amount of money, but I'm pretty darn good at making money, so I come out ahead.

Certainly not bad, but you can live paycheck to paycheck on almost any amount of money.

Living Stingy blog in fact authors two articles about the 100,000 income paycheck to paycheck person, and then even crazier, the 250,000 a year paycheck to paycheck person.

While good offense and average defense probably is better than mediocre to poor offense and great defense, I've found that defense (savings) is pretty important to wealth development... probably more important than offense.

Again.. if wealth development is even a goal... which for most people in America, it really isn't. They would actually RATHER be the person with the new car, Iphone 7, Coach bag, mcmansion, and premium cable subscription and CC debt and no retirement savings rather than have mediocre stuff and and a million bucks worth of investments

Totally agree.

It's amazing how many people put forth a certian image but are really on the brink of going under.

You have to make a #### LOAD of money to both look like you have money and then actually have money in the bank investment style.

On the coasts I'm guessing 500K plus in income a year.

in the midwest I've found that my buddies who make over 300K can generally accomplish both.

I can't though on my income <250k

http://livingstingy.blogspot.com/2011/02/going-broke-on-250000-year.html

 

[kutta]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

Two sides of the coin - expenses and income. I find there are a few places to squeeze on the expenses side, but nowhere near what nuts like the MMM guy does; income increases are pretty limited. Increasing income is usually preferable, though usually harder to do.

I'm pretty cheap and I'm not going to start biking to the effing grocery store to save a few bucks.

Given what my wife comes home with that would be a crapload of round trips to the store.

This is the main reason I started my own business. Income increases are MUCH easier when you make money for work other people do.

 

[wilked]

Nutter> you guys are getting hosed!

I would get employees together and find a better plan, not fair to you guys to get robbed

 

[fantasycurse42]

You have to make a #### LOAD of money to both look like you have money and then actually have money in the bank investment style.

On the coasts I'm guessing 500K plus in income a year.

More in NYC if you have a family... I'd imagine similar in SF.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Living Stingy blog in fact authors two articles about the 100,000 income paycheck to paycheck person, and then even crazier, the 250,000 a year paycheck to paycheck person.

I am pretty sure a good friend of mine is living paycheck-to-paycheck and makes nearly $100k. I don't know how much he makes but it's at least $80k in a low COL area (Buffalo, NY) and he's single with no kids and no student loan debt. I think he also has a serious gambling problem though....he wouldn't be paycheck-to-paycheck if he wasn't wasting his money on frivolous things.

 

[Grahamburn]

Just keep in mind that a target fund is probably costing you approximately a few grand every year as well as all that glorious compounding interest on that lost money.

Mind showing the math on that? For what it's worth, I think you are way off

Here's what makes up Vanguard's Target funds, and their respective fees:

Total Stock Market: 0.17%
International Stock Index: 0.22%
Total Bond Index: 0.10%
International Bond Index: 0.23%
TIPS Index: 0.20%

Vanguard's Target funds charge between 0.16-0.18% ER fee. The additional cost of the target fund is virtually negligible

Here's what I have in my fidelity 401k from old job. The Freedom 2040 fund has an expense ration of .75%. The total market index fund has an expense ration of .07%. That's a big difference and would mean at least a grand if you had say 200k in your account. Vanguard's looks like its significantly lower, but I'd definitely check and do the math for those thinking about using a targeted fund.

Current 401k from benefit consultants whoever the eff they are is .45% for a large cap index and 1.25% for a 2040 target fund. So an even greater difference.

Are there additional fees on top of the expense ratios for whoever is managing the fund? Oof.

 

[Dentist]

Living Stingy blog in fact authors two articles about the 100,000 income paycheck to paycheck person, and then even crazier, the 250,000 a year paycheck to paycheck person.

I am pretty sure a good friend of mine is living paycheck-to-paycheck and makes nearly $100k. I don't know how much he makes but it's at least $80k in a low COL area (Buffalo, NY) and he's single with no kids and no student loan debt. I think he also has a serious gambling problem though....he wouldn't be paycheck-to-paycheck if he wasn't wasting his money on frivolous things.

Lotta people can't get out of their own way. And as mentioned before, some people are 100% fine with living on the edge with no savings. I think the just spend what they make, and if something goes awry they just do what everyone else is doing... foreclose, go bankrupt, etc... and don't see any problem with it. It's just the way things go sometimes.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Just keep in mind that a target fund is probably costing you approximately a few grand every year as well as all that glorious compounding interest on that lost money.

Mind showing the math on that? For what it's worth, I think you are way off

Here's what makes up Vanguard's Target funds, and their respective fees:

Total Stock Market: 0.17%
International Stock Index: 0.22%
Total Bond Index: 0.10%
International Bond Index: 0.23%
TIPS Index: 0.20%

Vanguard's Target funds charge between 0.16-0.18% ER fee. The additional cost of the target fund is virtually negligible

Good discussion, had me checking my 2050 Target Date fund in my 401K. 0.14% expense rate, so I think I'm good there - it contains the only bonds in my portfolio, with everything else equity funds.

Well, with the exception of a 2030 target fund and 2035 target fund sitting in a Rollover IRAs from previous 401Ks. Those have 0.74% and 0.75% expense rates. Buh bye.

Probably should simplify consolidate across the board as I have two rollover IRAs and my current 401K, all at Fidelity. I had a reason to keep the IRAs separate at one point - one was from a 401K solely funded before my marriage, and the other one was funded during, which I had to give up half of when I divorced. Talk about a painful pill to swallow, when the ex didn't save a penny during our marriage.

 

[Gawain]

If you want to be super conservative with part of your money, is there any reason to have a bond fund instead of just utilizing Treasury Direct?

 

[FUBAR]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

I am a horrible saver and spend a pretty good amount of money, but I'm pretty darn good at making money, so I come out ahead.

for those of us living on incomes we cannot control, cutting expenses is the way to go.

My target date fund is .18% FTR

.029%

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

Two sides of the coin - expenses and income. I find there are a few places to squeeze on the expenses side, but nowhere near what nuts like the MMM guy does; income increases are pretty limited. Increasing income is usually preferable, though usually harder to do.

I'm pretty cheap and I'm not going to start biking to the effing grocery store to save a few bucks.

Given what my wife comes home with that would be a crapload of round trips to the store.

yeah, but think of the training!

 

[NutterButter]

Nutter> you guys are getting hosed!

I would get employees together and find a better plan, not fair to you guys to get robbed

I think my current plan is terrible but luckily they just introduced some index funds with expense rations between .36% and .45% as opposed to the previously least expensive fund which was at .95%. My job is extremely cheap whether its with this or healthcare (get it instead through wife's job) or vacation days, but I stick with them b/c they're 10 miles away, the pay is solid, the hours flexible, I get to work from home once a week and its a pretty easy gig. I'm fine with my old job's fund at fidelity where I'm getting .07% and has probably has half my retirement.

I'd be curious to know what other's pay for various funds on their 401k. I always hear or read fees around 1% for actively managed funds in a 401k which is what those target date funds are. I think IRA is a different beast b/c you can easily move money between providers so there's more competition and thus lower fees. Not that it matters b/c I'm stuck with my current provider until I change jobs at which time I'll rollover but then lose the backdoor roth b/c of the tax consequences then.

 

[NutterButter]

Just keep in mind that a target fund is probably costing you approximately a few grand every year as well as all that glorious compounding interest on that lost money.

Mind showing the math on that? For what it's worth, I think you are way off

Here's what makes up Vanguard's Target funds, and their respective fees:

Total Stock Market: 0.17%
International Stock Index: 0.22%
Total Bond Index: 0.10%
International Bond Index: 0.23%
TIPS Index: 0.20%

Vanguard's Target funds charge between 0.16-0.18% ER fee. The additional cost of the target fund is virtually negligible

Here's what I have in my fidelity 401k from old job. The Freedom 2040 fund has an expense ration of .75%. The total market index fund has an expense ration of .07%. That's a big difference and would mean at least a grand if you had say 200k in your account. Vanguard's looks like its significantly lower, but I'd definitely check and do the math for those thinking about using a targeted fund.

Current 401k from benefit consultants whoever the eff they are is .45% for a large cap index and 1.25% for a 2040 target fund. So an even greater difference.

Are there additional fees on top of the expense ratios for whoever is managing the fund? Oof.

That should be it. That ratio encompasses all the various bs fees.

 

[elbowrm]

Ret plan +0.04% in 2015. Meh

 

[wilked]

If you want to be super conservative with part of your money, is there any reason to have a bond fund instead of just utilizing Treasury Direct?

Vanguards total bond fund is about half treasury bonds... The rest are corporate, mortgage backed, and foreign bonds. Total bond fund offers potentially better return though at a bit more risk. Using treasuries works fine, if that is your preference

 

[kutta]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

I am a horrible saver and spend a pretty good amount of money, but I'm pretty darn good at making money, so I come out ahead.

for those of us living on incomes we cannot control, cutting expenses is the way to go.

Agreed, but I'm curious why you can't control it. But I can imagine several scenarios where that's the case.

 

[Sand]

yeah, but think of the training!

Round trip to my closest store is 4 miles, 700ft. of climbing. Getting out of my neighborhood is ridiculous. (If I keep going to work, I get all that plus this hill.).

Yeah, that'd be some training. Lucky for me I have no pannier hookups on my S5.

 

[Slapdash]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

I am a horrible saver and spend a pretty good amount of money, but I'm pretty darn good at making money, so I come out ahead.

for those of us living on incomes we cannot control, cutting expenses is the way to go.

Agreed, but I'm curious why you can't control it. But I can imagine several scenarios where that's the case.

Notebook says FUBAR is a JAG or something similar, so the salaries are likely pretty standard.

 

[Slapdash]

Mr Money Mustache can make some great points, but his shtick gets tiresome fast. Plus, he absolutely loses his #### when there is any criticism. Very little worth reading that he has posted over the last year or two.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Mr Money Mustache can make some great points, but his shtick gets tiresome fast. Plus, he absolutely loses his #### when there is any criticism. Very little worth reading that he has posted over the last year or two.

Nice concept - not very realistic. Guy is a judgemental #### sucker. #### him.

 

[ghostguy123]

Those stats about people who can't afford a 500 dollar emergency are insane, but not at all a surprise.

Growing up in school I don't remember at any point any class that taught anything about finances outside of the occasional interest rate question in math, but nothing with any actual financial education.

I am firmly convinced that the educational system is paid by credit card companies to NOT teach proper money management.

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

 

[dickey moe]

Those stats about people who can't afford a 500 dollar emergency are insane, but not at all a surprise.

Growing up in school I don't remember at any point any class that taught anything about finances outside of the occasional interest rate question in math, but nothing with any actual financial education.

I am firmly convinced that the educational system is paid by credit card companies to NOT teach proper money management.

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

The credit card companies don't want the common Joe Schmoe to become educated about their finances, they want Joe Schmoe to be slave to the lender.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

#### the man ...man.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

Agree, parents can only teach so much anyway. My parents (well my Mom) were very thrifty when I was growing up, so I carried that over to my financial behavior. We were lower middle class but we always had enough, they weren't in debt or behind on stuff as far as I know. My Dad always said, "Dr D Jr, that kid likes money." I do, and still do but I also am not one to blow it. I will spend big on vacations and experiences though, something they would never do.

Now? My Dad told me they had $9k in CC debt and they are retired on a pretty good pension. I'm like

They buy all kinds of dumb #### now, especially my mom. They have $16k in their checking account too, makes no sense. My Mom has lost her mind these days, buying all kinds of crap I'm going to someday just throw away. Not hating on them getting things that make them happy in their senior years either, this is all dumb #### like those diet plans and junk from QVC. If they were in debt because they were traveling and living life, I'd be cool with it. I figure their house is worth $130k and it's paid for, as long as they don't leave my sister and I with over $130k in debt we're good.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

Agree, parents can only teach so much anyway. My parents (well my Mom) were very thrifty when I was growing up, so I carried that over to my financial behavior. We were lower middle class but we always had enough, they weren't in debt or behind on stuff as far as I know. My Dad always said, "Dr D Jr, that kid likes money." I do, and still do but I also am not one to blow it. I will spend big on vacations and experiences though, something they would never do.

Now? My Dad told me they had $9k in CC debt and they are retired on a pretty good pension. I'm like

They buy all kinds of dumb #### now, especially my mom. They have $16k in their checking account too, makes no sense. My Mom has lost her mind these days, buying all kinds of crap I'm going to someday just throw away. Not hating on them getting things that make them happy in their senior years either, this is all dumb #### like those diet plans and junk from QVC. If they were in debt because they were traveling and living life, I'd be cool with it. I figure their house is worth $130k and it's paid for, as long as they don't leave my sister and I with over $130k in debt we're good.

Sometimes you learn from the wrong things. My parents were thrifty but not cheap. They saved but didn't trust the stock market. They grew up poor. My dad did very well in working for the government and had a great pension - inflation adjusted. They retired with a lot of money in savings but only by savings bonds and very conservative stuff.

We don't have that luxury.

 

[ghostguy123]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

Agree, parents can only teach so much anyway. My parents (well my Mom) were very thrifty when I was growing up, so I carried that over to my financial behavior. We were lower middle class but we always had enough, they weren't in debt or behind on stuff as far as I know. My Dad always said, "Dr D Jr, that kid likes money." I do, and still do but I also am not one to blow it. I will spend big on vacations and experiences though, something they would never do.

Now? My Dad told me they had $9k in CC debt and they are retired on a pretty good pension. I'm like

They buy all kinds of dumb #### now, especially my mom. They have $16k in their checking account too, makes no sense. My Mom has lost her mind these days, buying all kinds of crap I'm going to someday just throw away. Not hating on them getting things that make them happy in their senior years either, this is all dumb #### like those diet plans and junk from QVC. If they were in debt because they were traveling and living life, I'd be cool with it. I figure their house is worth $130k and it's paid for, as long as they don't leave my sister and I with over $130k in debt we're good.

Sometimes you learn from the wrong things. My parents were thrifty but not cheap. They saved but didn't trust the stock market. They grew up poor. My dad did very well in working for the government and had a great pension - inflation adjusted. They retired with a lot of money in savings but only by savings bonds and very conservative stuff.

We don't have that luxury.

My parents didn't know what the stock market was, still don't. Neither of them grew up poor (well my Mom was close) but they had Greatest Generation parents, and my mom's parents were right off the boat. Those people were ####### cheap. My maternal Grandma was still making tripe soup in her 70s, it was just a mindset. Growing up in the Depression does that to you.

But I'll take those people over the people who buy McMansions and have to get a new TV every three minutes. I can't relate to those people, I appreciate nice things but I don't need a boat to impress people. They seem impressed with me anyway.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

Agree, parents can only teach so much anyway. My parents (well my Mom) were very thrifty when I was growing up, so I carried that over to my financial behavior. We were lower middle class but we always had enough, they weren't in debt or behind on stuff as far as I know. My Dad always said, "Dr D Jr, that kid likes money." I do, and still do but I also am not one to blow it. I will spend big on vacations and experiences though, something they would never do.

Now? My Dad told me they had $9k in CC debt and they are retired on a pretty good pension. I'm like

They buy all kinds of dumb #### now, especially my mom. They have $16k in their checking account too, makes no sense. My Mom has lost her mind these days, buying all kinds of crap I'm going to someday just throw away. Not hating on them getting things that make them happy in their senior years either, this is all dumb #### like those diet plans and junk from QVC. If they were in debt because they were traveling and living life, I'd be cool with it. I figure their house is worth $130k and it's paid for, as long as they don't leave my sister and I with over $130k in debt we're good.

Sometimes you learn from the wrong things. My parents were thrifty but not cheap. They saved but didn't trust the stock market. They grew up poor. My dad did very well in working for the government and had a great pension - inflation adjusted. They retired with a lot of money in savings but only by savings bonds and very conservative stuff.

We don't have that luxury.

My parents didn't know what the stock market was, still don't. Neither of them grew up poor (well my Mom was close) but they had Greatest Generation parents, and my mom's parents were right off the boat. Those people were ####### cheap. My maternal Grandma was still making tripe soup in her 70s, it was just a mindset. Growing up in the Depression does that to you.

But I'll take those people over the people who buy McMansions and have to get a new TV every three minutes. I can't relate to those people, I appreciate nice things but I don't need a boat to impress people. They seem impressed with me anyway.

Tearing up here. GD right. Salt of the earth. I can only hope to be as good a person as my mom and dad.

I had such a great childhood. Unbelievable. Middle class and moved in to pushing upper middle class. Never wanted for anything - but not spoiled. They didn't buy a car but paid for college. Always knew I was totally loved. Most of my friends had it a little rougher and I saw how their situations were and always appreciated what I had.

 

[ghostguy123]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financially savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

There are articles on this that I'm not looking up. But personal finance in the nuclear family is not a topic of discussion in most homes, then or now. I'm on top of ####, my parent were not, my grandparents less so. Personal finance is just that, it's personal. This generation is full of college degrees and CNBC, they can make their own way. My parents taught me to value money, not to balance a checkbook or not carry credit card debt. IMO that is on the individual, and I know a ton of financially savvy people who never learned #### from their parents.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

Thanks Baron Von Biltmore. Let me know if you can get me into Bushwood CC.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

Disagree.

Agree, parents can only teach so much anyway. My parents (well my Mom) were very thrifty when I was growing up, so I carried that over to my financial behavior. We were lower middle class but we always had enough, they weren't in debt or behind on stuff as far as I know. My Dad always said, "Dr D Jr, that kid likes money." I do, and still do but I also am not one to blow it. I will spend big on vacations and experiences though, something they would never do.

Now? My Dad told me they had $9k in CC debt and they are retired on a pretty good pension. I'm like

They buy all kinds of dumb #### now, especially my mom. They have $16k in their checking account too, makes no sense. My Mom has lost her mind these days, buying all kinds of crap I'm going to someday just throw away. Not hating on them getting things that make them happy in their senior years either, this is all dumb #### like those diet plans and junk from QVC. If they were in debt because they were traveling and living life, I'd be cool with it. I figure their house is worth $130k and it's paid for, as long as they don't leave my sister and I with over $130k in debt we're good.

Sometimes you learn from the wrong things. My parents were thrifty but not cheap. They saved but didn't trust the stock market. They grew up poor. My dad did very well in working for the government and had a great pension - inflation adjusted. They retired with a lot of money in savings but only by savings bonds and very conservative stuff.

We don't have that luxury.

My parents didn't know what the stock market was, still don't. Neither of them grew up poor (well my Mom was close) but they had Greatest Generation parents, and my mom's parents were right off the boat. Those people were ####### cheap. My maternal Grandma was still making tripe soup in her 70s, it was just a mindset. Growing up in the Depression does that to you.

But I'll take those people over the people who buy McMansions and have to get a new TV every three minutes. I can't relate to those people, I appreciate nice things but I don't need a boat to impress people. They seem impressed with me anyway.

Tearing up here. GD right. Salt of the earth. I can only hope to be as good a person as my mom and dad.

I had such a great childhood. Unbelievable. Middle class and moved in to pushing upper middle class. Never wanted for anything - but not spoiled. They didn't buy a car but paid for college. Always knew I was totally loved. Most of my friends had it a little rougher and I saw how their situations were and always appreciated what I had.

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

 

[ghostguy123]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

There are articles on this that I'm not looking up. But personal finance in the nuclear family is not a topic of discussion in most homes, then or now. I'm on top of ####, my parent were not, my grandparents less so. Personal finance is just that, it's personal. This generation is full of college degrees and CNBC, they can make their own way. My parents taught me to value money, not to balance a checkbook or not carry credit card debt. IMO that is on the individual, and I know a ton of financially savvy people who never learned #### from their parents.

It's also not much of a discussion in school, either.

So as you say, it seems most people have to learn all this stuff on their own. Which is why most people aren't very knowledgeable regarding finances.

If you parents taught you ANYTHING AT ALL about money, chances are you started out ahead of the majority of people.

 

[ghostguy123]

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

So you agree with me but are disagreeing with me.

Anyway, nevermind, I guess we are just talking about two different things or something. Who knows.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

So you agree with me but are disagreeing with me.

Anyway, nevermind, I guess we are just talking about two different things or something. Who knows.

You're like a dog with a sock. Nobody's got a hold of the other side. Relax.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

So you agree with me but are disagreeing with me.

Anyway, nevermind, I guess we are just talking about two different things or something. Who knows.

My parents never taught me to balance a checkbook, budget, or anything about investing. Nothing. I learned all that on my own, and when I was 19 I was living in Italy paying rent, utilities, and having to feed myself. I figured it out. Didn't start investing until I was 24, wish I would have started that in my late teens.

 

[Judge Smails]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

Thanks Baron Von Biltmore. Let me know if you can get me into Bushwood CC.

If he doesn't loofah Mrs. Smails' stretch marks he isn't getting into Bushwood, sir...

 

[ghostguy123]

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

So you agree with me but are disagreeing with me.

Anyway, nevermind, I guess we are just talking about two different things or something. Who knows.

My parents never taught me to balance a checkbook, budget, or anything about investing. Nothing. I learned all that on my own, and when I was 19 I was living in Italy paying rent, utilities, and having to feed myself. I figured it out. Didn't start investing until I was 24, wish I would have started that in my late teens.

As I said, it's not some concrete rule.

At no point did I ever come close to saying that people can't get financially savvy on their own early in life.

My parents never taught me about anything regarding investing. If they had, I would have started investing much earlier myself. Maybe you would have to. I am not saying you would have for sure, but I am saying you would have been more likely to have started investing earlier if they did.

So again, not really sure exactly what you disagree with me about, but no big deal. You disagree. Moving on

 

[ghostguy123]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

Thanks Baron Von Biltmore. Let me know if you can get me into Bushwood CC.

If he doesn't loofah Mrs. Smails' stretch marks he isn't getting into Bushwood, sir...

I might just buy the place.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

Thanks Baron Von Biltmore. Let me know if you can get me into Bushwood CC.

If he doesn't loofah Mrs. Smails' stretch marks he isn't getting into Bushwood, sir...

I might just buy the place.

Put up condominiums?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

My Dad gave me $50 for prom with Andrea, the most beautiful girl a high school boy could take to prom. Besides that I rarely got a handout. I started working when I was 12 delivering papers and sorting cans at the local bar, that's how I got money. So to the current subject we are speaking on, my parents did me right. Go out and earn ####, mang.

So you agree with me but are disagreeing with me.

Anyway, nevermind, I guess we are just talking about two different things or something. Who knows.

My parents never taught me to balance a checkbook, budget, or anything about investing. Nothing. I learned all that on my own, and when I was 19 I was living in Italy paying rent, utilities, and having to feed myself. I figured it out. Didn't start investing until I was 24, wish I would have started that in my late teens.

As I said, it's not some concrete rule.

At no point did I ever come close to saying that people can't get financially savvy on their own early in life.

My parents never taught me about anything regarding investing. If they had, I would have started investing much earlier myself. Maybe you would have to. I am not saying you would have for sure, but I am saying you would have been more likely to have started investing earlier if they did.

So again, not really sure exactly what you disagree with me about, but no big deal. You disagree. Moving on

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just a different mindset. Parents have the responsibility to feed, shelter, and clothe their kids and hopefully raise them to responsible adults. Some do much more and that's great, but we live in an educated and individualistic society, personal finance IMO is something that is on you. You can't blame parents for you not having a Roth IRA or understanding the intricacies of a SEP. The internet can guide you, brother.

 

[ghostguy123]

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just a different mindset. Parents have the responsibility to feed, shelter, and cloth their kids and hopefully raise them to responsible adults. Some do much more and that's great, but we live in an educated and individualistic society, personal finance IMO is something that is on you. You can't blame parents for not having a Roth IRA or understanding the intricacies of a SEP. The internet can guide you, brother.

I agree with all of this. So what are we arguing about?

I promise I am not buying Bushwood

 

[Doctor Detroit]

 

[ghostguy123]

Most people grow up in this country without much of an education about anything related to money. Not talking about just knowledge about stocks and bonds, but mainly just knowledge in general regarding anything that has to do with money whether it is hard work, the value of money, or any of it.

It's amazing how many people don't realize how interest works with credit cards when they first get them. Sure, some people are so stupid that they can't be taught, but many others learn the hard way and much later in their life than they should have if there was any sort of proper education.

I am simply saying that there would be less people who couldn't afford a 500 dollar emergency if schools taught finance to some degree each and every year k-12, and/or parents who stressed the importance of certain things more when growing up.

Not all people. Not everyone. I am not saying that.

 

[ghostguy123]

By the way, these finance threads on here are

Appreciate all the good advice and answers to questions from people on here who know their ####.

In the few shorts since I first laid eyes on the FFA forums it has been a big help, and I will probably retire 10 years sooner because of it

 

[NutterButter]

Those stats about people who can't afford a 500 dollar emergency are insane, but not at all a surprise.

Growing up in school I don't remember at any point any class that taught anything about finances outside of the occasional interest rate question in math, but nothing with any actual financial education.

I am firmly convinced that the educational system is paid by credit card companies to NOT teach proper money management.

Basically you need to have parents who teach you (which is rare because most adults out there are clueless, obviously), otherwise you will probably end up in debt just like them. Or you just learn later in life (if at all), which in most cases is too late to fund a legit retirement.

The credit card companies don't want the common Joe Schmoe to become educated about their finances, they want Joe Schmoe to be slave to the lender.

Someone has to support the 1.5% cash back I'm getting.

 

[FUBAR]

I've always lived by philosophy of - don't save a nickle, earn a dollar.

I am a horrible saver and spend a pretty good amount of money, but I'm pretty darn good at making money, so I come out ahead.

for those of us living on incomes we cannot control, cutting expenses is the way to go.

Agreed, but I'm curious why you can't control it. But I can imagine several scenarios where that's the case.

Notebook says FUBAR is a JAG or something similar, so the salaries are likely pretty standard.

Good notebook. I'm Just A Guy.

Military = aside from promotions, being locked-in to a salary for your career. Decent salary for sure and the benefits are great.

 

[FUBAR]

Are you guys trying to tell me there isn't a direct correlation between parents and their kids regarding finances in their upbringing?? Are you serious?

Yeah, sure, there are examples and outliers all over the place, but this is pretty obvious.

Go back to your other thread.

I am actually pretty shocked that people would disagree with the concept that kids who grow up with parents who are financial savvy would be more likely to be the same later in life, and vice versa.

More likely. Not "all". If you grew up with parents who were financially illiterate, and you are currently very financial savvy, then great. That doesn't change what I am pretty certain is true about kids growing up though.

There are articles on this that I'm not looking up. But personal finance in the nuclear family is not a topic of discussion in most homes, then or now. I'm on top of ####, my parent were not, my grandparents less so. Personal finance is just that, it's personal. This generation is full of college degrees and CNBC, they can make their own way. My parents taught me to value money, not to balance a checkbook or not carry credit card debt. IMO that is on the individual, and I know a ton of financially savvy people who never learned #### from their parents.

It's also not much of a discussion in school, either.

So as you say, it seems most people have to learn all this stuff on their own. Which is why most people aren't very knowledgeable regarding finances.

If you parents taught you ANYTHING AT ALL about money, chances are you started out ahead of the majority of people.

if by "taught" you'd include hearing them complain about CC debt, refinancing their mortgage every 4-6 years, and paying for my sister's college, mine taught me plenty.