AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Assume you are building a team from scratch. They are roughly the same age and for the sake of this poll assume they would cost the same, salary wise. Which guy do you want for your team?
While it's certainly a valid opinion and I'm not knocking you at all for saying so, I'm not positive I agree with either of those statements.Seymour's the best DT in the league. I'm not sure Peppers is the best DE in the league.
The people backing up their opinion seem to favor Seymour by about 4 or 5 to 1.I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Workout much??Ephedrine and steroids are too completely different worlds. It's the equivalent of comparing an ice cold Red Bull to Winstrol.Seymour doesn't take roids.
Seymour and Peppers are both physical freaks but Seymour got there from hard work and determination. You gotta go with him.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour. He is the most disruptive DL I've seen in years. He elevates the play of everyone else on the Pats D.
Didn't Mia doulbe him the entire game?I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Fair point, but the claim was that he doesn't dissappear in ANY games.That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def2001 Steelers 16 22 9.0 13 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 02002 Steelers 16 40 23.0 17 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 02003 Steelers 16 39 27.0 12 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 12004 Steelers 6 15 8.0 7 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 02005 Steelers 16 42 25.0 17 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Code:Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 22 9.0 13 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 02002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 40 23.0 17 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 02003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 39 27.0 12 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 12004 Pittsburgh Steelers 6 15 8.0 7 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 02005 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 42 25.0 17 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
Really? I doubt that.I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Yes, but the point is that stats can not tell you everything. In this paricular case, they tell you NOTHING.Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Code:Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 22 9.0 13 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 02002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 40 23.0 17 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 02003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 39 27.0 12 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 12004 Pittsburgh Steelers 6 15 8.0 7 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 02005 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 42 25.0 17 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
Having a friend who was an agent I unfortunately can tell you that stats are just as important to some players as wins.Really? I doubt that.I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
They have two completely different roles on defense. For Seymour to have 9 sacks at his position that mainly focuses on the run it's impressive.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
I think you are giving a lot of guys far too much moral credit in that assumption.Really? I doubt that.
I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.
3-4 DE's rarely put up great numbers, especially sacks. That is left up to the OLB's. However, without great DL play, OLB's won't be effective at their jobs. The DE's usually take up a couple of blockers to free the OLB to attack the QB. Look at Foley and Merriman the past two years who were greatly helped the Chargers front 3.Yes, but the point is that stats can not tell you everything. In this paricular case, they tell you NOTHING.Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Code:Year Team G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 22 9.0 13 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 02002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 40 23.0 17 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 02003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 39 27.0 12 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 12004 Pittsburgh Steelers 6 15 8.0 7 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 02005 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 42 25.0 17 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
It doesn't have much to do with moral credit.Would you rather be celebrating or down after a game?I think you are giving a lot of guys far too much moral credit in that assumption.Really? I doubt that.
I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.
I'll take your word for it that you are intimately familiar with Pepper's character, but remember that he served a four game suspension. I can buy making an innocent mistake once (which would result in nothing but a warning), but how in the world did it happen twice then?Also, I wasn't dismissing him. I was simply stating that all things being equal (which I feel they are), it would be very easy for me to select the guy that has stayed clean over the guy who hasn't.I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
He tested positive for it once. Julius Peppers test positive for banned substanceHe got a four game suspension without a warningI'll take your word for it that you are intimately familiar with Pepper's character, but remember that he served a four game suspension. I can buy making an innocent mistake once (which would result in nothing but a warning), but how in the world did it happen twice then?Also, I wasn't dismissing him. I was simply stating that all things being equal (which I feel they are), it would be very easy for me to select the guy that has stayed clean over the guy who hasn't.I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacksI'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
The hits just keep coming. I know it is hard for you but stop embarassing yourself. Stats dont define Seymour. Besides, without looking it up, I am PRETTY sure that Seymour didnt play much if at all in the second game against Miami. The Pats played reserves most of the game.I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
The claim is that he doesnt dissappear in ANY games and I fail to see where you have refuted that. By saying he only had 4 tackles against the Dolphins? The first statement might or might not be accurate but nothing you have said has disproved it even an iota.Fair point, but the claim was that he doesn't dissappear in ANY games.That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.![]()
Yikes... that seems a bit rough. Chase seems like a good guy. Cut him some slack.I know it is hard for you but stop embarassing yourself.
peppers doesn't get doubled?Didn't Mia doulbe him the entire game?I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
You might as well make that apply to any defensive player. Sure LBs rack up tackles, they may be the exception, but elite corners don't get thrown on, elite DEs get doubled or tripled at times, elite safeties may roam, but teams can gameplan around them. As a FF site, we often lose touch with the idea that stats are just a by-product of the game. Not the goal.If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
Don't sweat it Despyzer. You'll soon learn too that individual stats don't define any Patriot player.Yikes... that seems a bit rough. Chase seems like a good guy. Cut him some slack.I know it is hard for you but stop embarassing yourself.
Of course. It's true with offensive stats as well, but the difference is more pronounced with IDP. The key is knowing how to use the stats, so that you're better off with them, than without them.You might as well make that apply to any defensive player. Sure LBs rack up tackles, they may be the exception, but elite corners don't get thrown on, elite DEs get doubled or tripled at times, elite safeties may roam, but teams can gameplan around them. As a FF site, we often lose touch with the idea that stats are just a by-product of the game. Not the goal.If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
I'd take Seymour whether we're talking a 3-4 or a 4-3.if i wanted to build a 3-4 around one player, it would probably be seymour... if i wanted to build a 4-3, it would probably be peppers.
For a 3-4 it isn't arguable. For a 4-3, Peppers does have a little more speed, although Seymour isn't slow and is better in run support. You can't go wrong with either IMO.I'd take Seymour whether we're talking a 3-4 or a 4-3.if i wanted to build a 3-4 around one player, it would probably be seymour... if i wanted to build a 4-3, it would probably be peppers.