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Peppers or Seymour? You can only have one.... (1 Viewer)

Peppers or Seymour? You can only have one....

  • Richard Seymour

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Julius Peppers

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

AhrnCityPahnder

Yinz-o-riffic
Assume you are building a team from scratch. They are roughly the same age and for the sake of this poll assume they would cost the same, salary wise. Which guy do you want for your team?

 
This is tough. I take Peppers because he is two months younger!

I also think that if these two are put in the exact same position as far as who is lined up around them and defensive scheme, Peppers is the slightly better player. Either way though, these are franchise players who bring it.

 
Seymour has dominated in most games I've seen. Peppers disappears for weeks at a time and then has a few huge games. Went Seymour, although I may be biased as a Panther homer.

 
This is an easy question for me...Seymour. He's just a more well rounded player. While Peppers is probably a better pass rusher Seymour is far superior in the run game. Add in the fact he can also play both inside and out and you're getting a much more versatile player in Seymour. Also, you'll never ever see Seymour take a play off. In the end Peppers is more flashy and will get on the highlights but on an every play basis Seymour is a more productive player.

 
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both play on Superbowl caliber teams. they are both technically DEs, but Seymour is a DE in a 3-4 which is a completely different defensive approach. it requires the player to serve as both a tackle and an end. he could play any position in a 4-3 front. Peppers is strictly an end. He couldnt play in a 3-4 except possibly as outside LB/DE which is the position Willie McGinest just vacated for the Pats. hes not big enough to play tackle...about 25-30lbs lighter than Seymour. this isnt really a fair comparison imo because they are completely different players. Seymour is dominant against the run, and solid against the pass, but doesnt get alot of sacks. Peppers is decent against the run and much better against the pass. Hes alot faster, Seymour is alot stronger. both players get doubled alot, but Peppers usually has a TE or RB as a second blocker on him. Seymour is always looking at double teams by the atleast 2 of the front 5. for a speed pass rusher at DE in the traditional 4-3, youd take Peppers. hes simply the best, imo. for dominance in the 3-4 anywhere on the line, its Seymour. if I had to choose, naturally Id take the guy who plays for my favorite team....and HAS 3 RINGS.....that would be Seymour. the rings kindof tip the scale a little.

 
Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.

 
Seymour doesn't take roids.

Seymour and Peppers are both physical freaks but Seymour got there from hard work and determination. You gotta go with him.

 
Seymour's the best DT in the league. I'm not sure Peppers is the best DE in the league.
While it's certainly a valid opinion and I'm not knocking you at all for saying so, I'm not positive I agree with either of those statements.
 
I've got to say Seymour. I felt he was the best over all Defensive Line player in the league. Some stuff the run better, some play the pass better, but for an everydown guy, who is the #1 player the D schemes for, every play, it's got to be Seymour.

A couple of bad, freakish, injuries, but overall, he's such a talent.

 
Seymour. He is the most disruptive DL I've seen in years. He elevates the play of everyone else on the Pats D.

 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
The people backing up their opinion seem to favor Seymour by about 4 or 5 to 1.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks

 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versatile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. The guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.

 
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Seymour doesn't take roids.

Seymour and Peppers are both physical freaks but Seymour got there from hard work and determination. You gotta go with him.
Workout much??Ephedrine and steroids are too completely different worlds. It's the equivalent of comparing an ice cold Red Bull to Winstrol.

 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.
 
Seymour. He is the most disruptive DL I've seen in years. He elevates the play of everyone else on the Pats D.
:goodposting: There's a reason those NE LBs are making unbelievable plays all the time -- it's because they're out in space and have the ability to do so.

 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
Didn't Mia doulbe him the entire game?
 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights.  Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player.  He does not disappear in ANY games.  Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL.  He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes.  He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing.  THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.
I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.
 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights. Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player. He does not disappear in ANY games. Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL. He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes. He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing. THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.
Fair point, but the claim was that he doesn't dissappear in ANY games. ;)
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:
Code:
Year  Team  G  Total  Tckl  Ast  Sacks  Int  Yds  Avg  Lg  TD  Pass Def2001 Steelers	16	22	9.0	13	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	02002 Steelers	16	40	23.0	17	2	0	0	0.0	0	0	02003 Steelers	16	39	27.0	12	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	12004 Steelers	6	15	8.0	7	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	02005 Steelers	16	42	25.0	17	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	0
 
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I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.
I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.
Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:
Code:
Year  Team  G  Total  Tckl  Ast  Sacks  Int  Yds  Avg  Lg  TD  Pass Def2001	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	22	9.0	13	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	02002	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	40	23.0	17	2	0	0	0.0	0	0	02003	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	39	27.0	12	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	12004	Pittsburgh Steelers	6	15	8.0	7	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	02005	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	42	25.0	17	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	0
Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.
 
Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.
I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.
Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.
Really? I doubt that.I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.

 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:
Code:
Year  Team  G  Total  Tckl  Ast  Sacks  Int  Yds  Avg  Lg  TD  Pass Def2001	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	22	9.0	13	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	02002	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	40	23.0	17	2	0	0	0.0	0	0	02003	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	39	27.0	12	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	12004	Pittsburgh Steelers	6	15	8.0	7	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	02005	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	42	25.0	17	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	0
Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.
Yes, but the point is that stats can not tell you everything. In this paricular case, they tell you NOTHING.
 
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I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Seymour will never be a stat guy with the Pats. That is not his role. Much of what he does just doesn't show up in the stat column although it does show up in the win-lost column. The fact he's willing to sacrifice numbers for the good of the team is one of the reasons he's such a leader. If he was in another system that asked him to be a stat guy there's no doubt he could do so.
I won't disagree too much, but it's hard to really measure a defensive player's worth in wins. **** Butkus had a career .397 winning percentage.
Agree to a point...obviously he's a piece of the puzzle but when you're the best defender on a team that wins three titles and have sacrificed stats for wins that should be considered a positive. There's a lot players that would not be happy in that role.
Really? I doubt that.I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.
Having a friend who was an agent I unfortunately can tell you that stats are just as important to some players as wins.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
They have two completely different roles on defense. For Seymour to have 9 sacks at his position that mainly focuses on the run it's impressive.
 
Really? I doubt that.

I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.
I think you are giving a lot of guys far too much moral credit in that assumption.
 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
Say hello to the best palyer on the Steelers D:
Code:
Year  Team  G  Total  Tckl  Ast  Sacks  Int  Yds  Avg  Lg  TD  Pass Def2001	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	22	9.0	13	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	02002	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	40	23.0	17	2	0	0	0.0	0	0	02003	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	39	27.0	12	1	0	0	0.0	0	0	12004	Pittsburgh Steelers	6	15	8.0	7	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	02005	Pittsburgh Steelers	16	42	25.0	17	0	0	0	0.0	0	0	0
Hampton's a NT. Aaron Smith had 70-5.5 playing as a 3-4 DE a few years back. Night and day positions IMO.
Yes, but the point is that stats can not tell you everything. In this paricular case, they tell you NOTHING.
3-4 DE's rarely put up great numbers, especially sacks. That is left up to the OLB's. However, without great DL play, OLB's won't be effective at their jobs. The DE's usually take up a couple of blockers to free the OLB to attack the QB. Look at Foley and Merriman the past two years who were greatly helped the Chargers front 3.
 
To be fair...Seymour has also been compensated in a big way for his role. He also had no problem ruffling a few feathers last year with regard to his contract. He'll sacrifice the stat part but he knows his value and is compensated accordingly.

 
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Really? I doubt that.

I don't think most athletes would prefer stats to wins. Maybe money to wins, but that's not a straight correlation.
I think you are giving a lot of guys far too much moral credit in that assumption.
It doesn't have much to do with moral credit.Would you rather be celebrating or down after a game?

 
This is close for me.

A Julius Peppers is awful difficult to find. 4-3 ends with the freakish size/speed/agility to wreak havoc in pass rush and hold up well in run support come along once every five years or so. He's a game changer. While his measureables would be wasted a bit in a 3-4 front, like Mario Williams, Peppers could succeed there as well. Some scouts even suggested he could slide inside to tackle when he came out of college. Not that anyone would do that, but it's interesting to note.

Richard Seymour doesn't have the freakish measurables that Peppers has, but he's a better all around football player. He's shown the ability to be very successful in the 4-3 front, but he doesn't have the speed or explosiveness IMO to make teams account for him on every play as a 4-3 end. Even so, Seymour's versatility is a huge plus.

I take Seymour because of his consistency and versatility but Peppers isn't nearly as one-dimensional as some of the above posts suggest.

Plus Seymour can play the trombone. That clinches it.

 
Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.
I'll take your word for it that you are intimately familiar with Pepper's character, but remember that he served a four game suspension. I can buy making an innocent mistake once (which would result in nothing but a warning), but how in the world did it happen twice then?Also, I wasn't dismissing him. I was simply stating that all things being equal (which I feel they are), it would be very easy for me to select the guy that has stayed clean over the guy who hasn't.

 
Seymour has never been suspended for violation of the league's drug policy. Easy choice.
I wouldn't easily dismiss a person who was suspended, all because an ingredient in the dietary supplement that person was taken turned out to be prohibited. It is not in Pepper's character to purposely take something that is not allowed.
I'll take your word for it that you are intimately familiar with Pepper's character, but remember that he served a four game suspension. I can buy making an innocent mistake once (which would result in nothing but a warning), but how in the world did it happen twice then?Also, I wasn't dismissing him. I was simply stating that all things being equal (which I feel they are), it would be very easy for me to select the guy that has stayed clean over the guy who hasn't.
He tested positive for it once. Julius Peppers test positive for banned substanceHe got a four game suspension without a warning

 
I'm stunned that Peppers is winning this thing, I figured it would be Seymour 4x to 5x in favor.
I was a little surprised too. But then I looked at some numbers from the past two seasons:Seymour: 85 tackles, 9 sacks

Peppers: 114 tackles, 21.5 sacks
If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights.  Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player.  He does not disappear in ANY games.  Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL.  He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes.  He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing.  THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
The hits just keep coming. I know it is hard for you but stop embarassing yourself. Stats dont define Seymour. Besides, without looking it up, I am PRETTY sure that Seymour didnt play much if at all in the second game against Miami. The Pats played reserves most of the game.
 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights.  Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player.  He does not disappear in ANY games.  Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL.  He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes.  He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing.  THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
That's a bit misleading. The first game he just returned from being out over a month. The second game was treated as an exhibition game by the Pats and he didn't play the full game.
Fair point, but the claim was that he doesn't dissappear in ANY games. ;)
The claim is that he doesnt dissappear in ANY games and I fail to see where you have refuted that. By saying he only had 4 tackles against the Dolphins? The first statement might or might not be accurate but nothing you have said has disproved it even an iota.
 
Seymour can do everything Peppers can do. The opposite is not true.

Seymour can line up as a DE or a DT and be among the league's elite at either position.

Peppers is a great player, but Seymour is the guy you'd want to build your defense around, and this shouldn't even be close.

 
People wacth far too much ESPN highlights.  Seymore is the better player and far more versitile player.  He does not disappear in ANY games.  Can play any spot on the Dline as good if not better than anyone in the NFL.  He takes on the run just as well as he pass rushes.  He can be used for gap control or zone bllitzing.  THe guy is a beast and from everything I have seen is as close to unblockable by one man as you can get right now.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Against Miami last year, he has 4 tackles in two games and no sacks.
Didn't Mia doulbe him the entire game?
peppers doesn't get doubled?
 
seymour is better in run support... peppers is probably a more explosive pass rusher...

i could see some making the case that seymour is more well rounded... i'm not sure peppers couldn't bulk up & play DT if needed, but seymour does seem stouter at the point of attack...

some factors that are hard to delineate out is seymour is being conferred with extra respect because he has three super bowl rings... but are we sure if peppers had the benefit of belichick & crennell's schemes & also had bruschi, mcginest, rodney harrison, et al on his team (not to mention tom brady!), maybe he would be the one to have three rings?

i admit to not watching seymour as closely & being as familiar with his work (i know he is multi-pro bowler by reputation)... in IDP leagues, peppers is far more valuable, so i knew far more about him.

to those who say it shouldn't even be close... lets pretend seymour & peppers were in the 2006 draft... where would they go?

its not like seymour would go #2 & peppers would go #20? :)

maybe they would go something like one or two picks apart?

how far apart could they really be...

somebody made a good point about considering schemes... i guess this poll is predicated on if you were starting team from scratch... pass rushers like peppers are extremely rare... its not an accident he was picked #2 overall in his draft (after harrington :) )...

its really tough to answer this with no system or scheme context...

if i wanted to build a 3-4 around one player, it would probably be seymour... if i wanted to build a 4-3, it would probably be peppers.

another factor is peppers may be getting stronger as he matures... he played a lot of basketball in high school & college (sixth man on good north carolina team first two years than concentrated on basketball), & missed out on some of the year round strength training... he may have more upside than seymour (not a dis on seymour, who just may be closer to actualizing & realizing his also considerable potential)...

 
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If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
You might as well make that apply to any defensive player. Sure LBs rack up tackles, they may be the exception, but elite corners don't get thrown on, elite DEs get doubled or tripled at times, elite safeties may roam, but teams can gameplan around them. As a FF site, we often lose touch with the idea that stats are just a by-product of the game. Not the goal.

 
If you are looking at stats to compare defensive linemen you are either too immersed in your IDP league or you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
You might as well make that apply to any defensive player. Sure LBs rack up tackles, they may be the exception, but elite corners don't get thrown on, elite DEs get doubled or tripled at times, elite safeties may roam, but teams can gameplan around them. As a FF site, we often lose touch with the idea that stats are just a by-product of the game. Not the goal.
Of course. It's true with offensive stats as well, but the difference is more pronounced with IDP. The key is knowing how to use the stats, so that you're better off with them, than without them. :yes:
 
if i wanted to build a 3-4 around one player, it would probably be seymour... if i wanted to build a 4-3, it would probably be peppers.
I'd take Seymour whether we're talking a 3-4 or a 4-3.
 
if i wanted to build a 3-4 around one player, it would probably be seymour... if i wanted to build a 4-3, it would probably be peppers.
I'd take Seymour whether we're talking a 3-4 or a 4-3.
For a 3-4 it isn't arguable. For a 4-3, Peppers does have a little more speed, although Seymour isn't slow and is better in run support. You can't go wrong with either IMO.

But I'll take Seymour because I'm a fan of the hybrid D.

 

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