Percent Chance Travis Hunter Sees Meaningful Work As Both A WR And A CB? (2 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

Taysom Hill was problematic enough with different platforms categorizing him at different positions.

But Travis Hunter playing both WR and CB will be a bigger problems for lots of software. Ours included.

What do you think are the chances we see Hunter getting meaningful time at both WR and CB?

Edit to add: Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

What are you considering "meaningful?

 

[Max Power]

"Meaningful" is a tough one. I don't think Travis plays both ways at the NFL level, but he can contribute on both sides of the ball. There seems to already be a blueprint for a CB to take WR snaps, but it's probably more difficult for a WR to take CB snaps.

I think a team should draft Hunter to try his hand at WR first and fall back to CB if he doesn't appear to be an elite WR. I went 6-24% because I think this is where his body and playbook knowledge (practice time) will land him.

I was thinking about Hunter this morning after last night's email has him as a WR at 1.09 in a rookie draft. I think a case can be made to have him as high as 1.03, but also as low as a 3rd RD pick (non-IDP) if he's primarily a CB. Does FBG have any inside info that his camp or teams are leaning WR?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

 

[MTskibum]

I am hopeful.

I am in an IDP league that has heavy defensive scoring and in this league players get stats for anything they do. For example if there is an interception and the WR gets the tackle that is +2 points(or 1 for an assist).

I think Hunter could be a top 5 player in this league if whatever team drafts him goes and unleashes him on both sides of the ball.

 

[JohnnyU]

I believe a shut down CB is a more important position in the NFL than WR and if he's that type of CB, then that's the position he will play 95% or greater of the time. That would make him useless in fantasty leagues that are not IDP. I believe he is that type of talent on defense, so in my mind, wishing him to be a stud WR is just that, wishful thinking.

 

[eighsse2]

I am hopeful.

I am in an IDP league that has heavy defensive scoring and in this league players get stats for anything they do. For example if there is an interception and the WR gets the tackle that is +2 points(or 1 for an assist).

I think Hunter could be a top 5 player in this league if whatever team drafts him goes and unleashes him on both sides of the ball.

In the case of a league like that, he should definitely carry some amount of premium, just for the longshot chance that he could become something like that. Very low odds, but potentially ridiculous payoff.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

but is he a better CB than WR? Know next to nothing about the guy but I think Max is probably correct here. I think he'll get the most snaps at whatever position he's best at and if he has WR/CB eligibility then I fon't see why you wouldn't take him.

 

[Anarchy99]

I would guess 10 snaps a game on offense. IMO, nowhere near enough to have much fantasy relevance (unless you play in one of my leagues where we start 90-95 WR each week). Maybe 30 receptions on the season.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

He won't have regular league relevance, but man he'd be a boon as an IDP if he can manage 2-3 catches and 30-40 yards a game on offense.

 

[Gally]

He won't have regular league relevance, but man he'd be a boon as an IDP if he can manage 2-3 catches and 30-40 yards a game on offense.

Marcus Jones had a stretch a couple years ago for NE where he was being used as a returner, DB, and WR. He put up big points in my IDP league that scores all those. Hunter could be something like that (does he return kicks too?).

Jones wasn't even great at any of them. It was just the volume of touches/tackles/returns that boosted his points. Pretty crazy. If Hunter can have a somewhat consistent role on each side of the ball he will be huge in some IDP leagues.

 

[rockaction]

He put up big points in my IDP league that scores all those. Hunter could be something like that (does he return kicks too?).

I had Jones at the end of that year that Belichick had him at WR. He scored 59 points for me in a semi-final, I think. He caught passes, returned a INT for a touchdown, and returned kicks. Let me see if I can find it and document it.

IDP leagues need to figure out what to do with Hunter. He's the 1.01 right now—at the least the 1.03—I'd have to say. Even over Jeanty.

eta* It was fifty-one points. A good DB got you about twelve back then in that league, and twelve-fifteen was a DB1 score.

 

[Gally]

IDP leagues need to figure out what to do with Hunter. He's the 1.01 right now—at the least the 1.03—I'd have to say. Even over Jeanty.

I think that is going a little far at this point. It definitely could materialize into that coming true but there are a lot of unknowns regarding usage, team, etc that I wouldn't have him that high......today.

It is a development that I will be watching intently for sure.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'd say very unlikely, but not impossible so I picked 6-24% but I'd put the number close to 6 than 24.

 

[rockaction]

IDP leagues need to figure out what to do with Hunter. He's the 1.01 right now—at the least the 1.03—I'd have to say. Even over Jeanty.

I think that is going a little far at this point. It definitely could materialize into that coming true but there are a lot of unknowns regarding usage, team, etc that I wouldn't have him that high......today.

It is a development that I will be watching intently for sure.

Yeah, I was going to qualify it with a "maybe" because things as of now are uncertain. The 1.01 is a bit of hyperbole. But he's got to be in the discussion if the team drafting him says he'll play some snaps at each position. He still might be the 1.02 behind Jeanty and maybe even behind other guys that are going to see certain volume in the future.

My point was really that if things break right in IDP, then he's the white whale.

But it's something to watch.

 

[Gally]

He still might be the 1.02 behind Jeanty and maybe even other guys with certain volume.

I think my pick is before yours....hahahahaha

 

[rockaction]

I think my pick is before yours....hahahahaha

LOL. You're correct, but I traded mine. He's not lasting until 1.10 in that league. Somebody will roll the dice. Unless . . . those RBs are all awfully tempting.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

He’ll play 95% on whichever side of the ball he’s better at and make more money at.

I’m in an IDP that all scoring goes across all positions. It would be interesting if he played enough db to matter.

 

[-OZ-]

Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

Depends on the league. As a rookie, if a league has a taxi squad I think it will be close to 99% of leagues that roster him regardless of what he does.
In my main league, even not accounting for TS, players like Zay Jones, DJ chark and Odell Beckham are rostered (huge deep league). Dynasty IDP with TS so he’s a lock to be rostered, probably a top 10 pick even if he’s drafted to play corner. But if you meant most redraft leagues, I think 6-24% is about right for WR.

 

[-OZ-]

He's the 1.01 right now—at the least the 1.03—I'd have to say. Even over Jeanty.

Totally disagree there but 3-5 might be right.

 

[travdogg]

I believe a shut down CB is a more important position in the NFL than WR and if he's that type of CB, then that's the position he will play 95% or greater of the time. That would make him useless in fantasty leagues that are not IDP. I believe he is that type of talent on defense, so in my mind, wishing him to be a stud WR is just that, wishful thinking.

This is where I'm at too. Shut down CB is more important, and he's just better at CB than WR.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

If that's the definition of meaningful? Then >zero percent.


No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions, IMO.

Even if he could do it, even short-term, I don't see any team allowing him to.

 

[rockaction]

No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions

I think Joe is only saying one position. He doesn’t need to a DB and WR. He needs to be a DB or WR. Big difference.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

If that's the definition of meaningful? Then >zero percent.


No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions, IMO.

Even if he could do it, even short-term, I don't see any team allowing him to.

You're welcome to create your own definition of meaningful there.

I'm just trying to get a handle on how much the demand will be for us to have him as both a WR and a CB as it affects the backend design for some of our features.

 

[Gally]

No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions, IMO.

For IDP he doesn't necessarily have to be reliable at two positions but if he is reliable enough at one position and the other position is just the cherry on top with added baseline points then he becomes a good asset. Especially on the IDP side at DB.

But I agree with you that if you separate out the positions individually he isn't going to be reliable at both positions in a way that he requires the "Gretzky" treatment.

 

[Joe Bryant]

No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions

I think Joe is only saying one position. He doesn’t need to a DB and WR. He needs to be a DB or WR. Big difference.

I'm wondering how much the demand will be for him to be available at 2 positions.

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Baseball's version of this is Ohtani.

It's my understanding most platforms let you draft Ohtani the hitter or Ohtani the pitcher. To get both hitting and pitching stats from him takes up 2 roster spots.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

The term meaningful work is quite subjective. But even as a WR4 on a (NFL) team, bye weeks cause decisions to made on the WW.

 

[rockaction]

I'm wondering how much the demand will be for him to be available at 2 positions.

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

Oh, okay. Sorry about interpreting for you. That's a different story altogether. He only gets the points accrued for each position that he plays, then.

I'd have to say that he's not very valuable if that's the case. I was thinking of him playing CB and accruing points that would go along with catching passes on offense and other things like that. If there's a [Travis Hunter - offense] and a [Travis Hunter - defense] in the league and you must use those at the corresponding position, I'd go with 6-24% chance that he's useful, and I think that's giving him a ton of credit. It's more like 0-5%.

 

[Anarchy99]

He won't have regular league relevance, but man he'd be a boon as an IDP if he can manage 2-3 catches and 30-40 yards a game on offense.

Marcus Jones had a stretch a couple years ago for NE where he was being used as a returner, DB, and WR. He put up big points in my IDP league that scores deall those. Hunter could be something like that (does he return kicks too?).

Jones wasn't even great at any of them. It was just the volume of touches/tackles/returns that boosted his points. Pretty crazy. If Hunter can have a somewhat consistent role on each side of the ball he will be huge in some IDP leagues.

To suggest Jones wasn’t great at anything was ignoring his exceptional performance as a kick returner as a rookie. He had over 1,000 kick return yards and a TD that year and was first team All Pro as a returner. He wasn’t anywhere near as effective on offense (4-78-1) or at CB (34 tackles, 2 INT, and a TD). He is no longer their full time kick returner, so all that return scoring has fallen way off.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm wondering how much the demand will be for him to be available at 2 positions.

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

Oh, okay. Sorry about interpreting for you.

No worries, GB. I'm often not clear.

 

[Gally]

To suggest Jones wasn’t great at anything was ignoring his exceptional performance as a kick returner as a rookie.

I was more referring to for FF purposes in that he wasn't on anybody's radar because he didn't really do any FF things really well where he would be noticed. It kind of came out of nowhere for FF.

I agree he was a great kick returner and I always wondered why he didn't do anything after that end of season flurry. From the IDP side he had great potential as a DB for FF but after that first year really did nothing.

 

[Gally]

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

This is going to be league dependent. Meaning there aren't as many IDP leagues so the DB side will not nearly be as prevelent as the WR side. That being said, I would guess every IDP league will use him as a DB over a WR 99.9% of the time because of the nature of the positions.

Where in standard leagues that only give offensive points it really is irrelevant if he plays DB at all. For them it's all about landing spot and whether or not he plays primarily at WR.

Baseball's version of this is Ohtani.

It's my understanding most platforms let you draft Ohtani the hitter or Ohtani the pitcher. To get both hitting and pitching stats from him takes up 2 roster spots.

This was the "Gretzky" treatment I spoke of up thread. I guess the real question you are trying to get at is if Hunter will rise to the level of needing the treatment of two positions because he is so dominant that it creates an unfair advantage.

Seems like most agree that will not be the case.....and then even then it only affects XX% of leagues because there aren't nearly as many IDP leagues out there.

Baseball/Hockey are also drastically different in format with multiple games a week so that also has a bit of a play into the logistics. Ohtani in particular rarely pitched and hit the same game (until the changed the DH rules to allow him to play two positions on game day...then he got hurt). So having him as two different players made more sense (IMO).

Playing two ways in a football game likely is too hard to achieve in a way meaningful enough to require two copies of Hunter.

 

[Soulfly3]

already explained the reasons for this in another thread... but 0-5% is the only logical answer.

 

[MTskibum]

If hunter is WR/CB eligible and even if he

Meaningful meaning he gets enough work at the position that a Fantasy GM would consider having him on their team at that position.

If that's the definition of meaningful? Then >zero percent.


No way he's playing enough on both sides of the ball to be a reliable weekly contributor at two positions, IMO.

Even if he could do it, even short-term, I don't see any team allowing him to.

You're welcome to create your own definition of meaningful there.

I'm just trying to get a handle on how much the demand will be for us to have him as both a WR and a CB as it affects the backend design for some of our features.

Designing new database schema's is probably the most fun thing i get to do at my job. The more complex the better, so I say go for it if his NFL team says that they are going to try to use him both ways.

You probably need to wait until after the draft though.

 

[MTskibum]

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

This is going to be league dependent. Meaning there aren't as many IDP leagues so the DB side will not nearly be as prevelent as the WR side. That being said, I would guess every IDP league will use him as a DB over a WR 99.9% of the time because of the nature of the positions.

No way in our dynasty IDP league.

It is 14 team and start 4 WR's, finding depth at WR is really tough, even though we start 4 DB's as well it is really easy to find depth at that position. Not much difference in scoring between DB 40 and DB 70.

Even if he is predominantly at DB, that WR eligibility is important because even as an average defensive back he will score more points than WR 35.

 

[-OZ-]

I'm just trying to get a handle on how much the demand will be for us to have him as both a WR and a CB as it affects the backend design for some of our features.

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

I think you need to cover him as both.
I’m not sure how we’ll handle it but if I had to bet, I think in my main league he’ll be a CB and get receiving points. Considering we start 2 CBs, he’s probably going to start for some team.

 

[Gally]

Not much difference in scoring between DB 40 and DB 70.

What is the difference in scoring between DB20 and WR20? or WR56 and DB56 (final starter)?


ETA: I just checked my league (start 2 WR and start 2 DB; 12 team league).........WR24 scored 154 pts and DB24 scored 157. WR1 was 318 and WR12 was 181 with DB1 at 225 and DB12 at 180

 

[DA RAIDERS]

He's the 1.01 right now—at the least the 1.03—I'd have to say. Even over Jeanty.

Totally disagree there but 3-5 might be right.

I pick 7th. I hope you’re right. 40 man rosters, idp league with good owners.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Or in effect, how many people will want to be able to play him as a WR AND DB.

This is going to be league dependent. Meaning there aren't as many IDP leagues so the DB side will not nearly be as prevelent as the WR side. That being said, I would guess every IDP league will use him as a DB over a WR 99.9% of the time because of the nature of the positions.

No way in our dynasty IDP league.

It is 14 team and start 4 WR's, finding depth at WR is really tough, even though we start 4 DB's as well it is really easy to find depth at that position. Not much difference in scoring between DB 40 and DB 70.

Even if he is predominantly at DB, that WR eligibility is important because even as an average defensive back he will score more points than WR 35.

Yep. If he plays both ways, he’ll be a very valuable db.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I would guess 10 snaps a game on offense. IMO, nowhere near enough to have much fantasy relevance (unless you play in one of my leagues where we start 90-95 WR each week). Maybe 30 receptions on the season.

I agree here that it will be a handful of plays and they mostly will use him as a potential shutdown DB
Will Hunter be satisfied if he doesn't get to play WR?
It's also possible he will see the field a little more on offense when he first enters the league to see if he does take off as a WR
He will probably have a set of plays in the Red Zone or inside the 30 yd line where he can strike, score and get off the field.

My question is what makes him so different? Why don't other teams try and get their talented DBs involved on Offense more often?

 

[Zow]

Baseball's version of this is Ohtani.

It's my understanding most platforms let you draft Ohtani the hitter or Ohtani the pitcher. To get both hitting and pitching stats from him takes up 2 roster spots.

Right, yahoo looks makes Ohtani two complete separate players (meaning two owners can have an Ohtani on their team).

 

[Chaka]

I believe a shut down CB is a more important position in the NFL than WR and if he's that type of CB, then that's the position he will play 95% or greater of the time. That would make him useless in fantasty leagues that are not IDP. I believe he is that type of talent on defense, so in my mind, wishing him to be a stud WR is just that, wishful thinking.

I am not sure that is the case anymore, although I reserve the right to retract that statement after Sauce gets his first real contract. In today's NFL top WRs get paid quite a bit more than top CBs.

It can be difficult to compare because contracts but Patrick Surtain II is the highest paid CB in the league and averages $24 mil/year. That would put him somewhere around the 8th-10th top paid WR. For goodness sake, Jaylen Waddle is averaging $30 mil/year.

The pass happy NFL is diminishing the value of the defense in general.

 

[ghostguy123]

Do shut down corners even score a lot in IDP?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Taysom is only listed as a qb in MFL. But he gets any points he scores at TE. Or any other position. I think that was the right choice by MFL. He would be too much as a flex TE. We have multiple formations possible.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Do shut down corners even score a lot in IDP?

No. You want the guy on the other side of the ball and ones that tackle.

 

[mjb03003]

Do shut down corners even score a lot in IDP?

In my experience it depends on whether it’s “ big play scoring” (INTs are worth a ton) and/or if points are awarded for Pass Defensed. Even then they’re not outscoring safeties and nickel backs, but they can be relevant.

 

[MAC_32]

0-5 if he's drafted as a WR
50-74 if he's drafted as a CB*

*assuming a package of WR plays counts as 'meaningful'

 

[-OZ-]

Do shut down corners even score a lot in IDP?

No. Surtain and slay were the 62nd and 63rd corner in my IDP. Byron Murphy was the top corner.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

haven't read the whole thread....but in todays world on fantasy sites...why can't every player just accumulate whatever combined stats they get via offense or defense....just open it up to every player....it doesn't need to be player specific....I mean you aren't going to start Chris Jones at RB....but if you are in a league that drafts defensive players and Andy decides to play him at RB one week you get the bonus points.....makes drafting every player the same....you would think league sites these days could accommodate...that way if you draft Hunter, you can decide for yourself each week to start him at WR or one of your defensive positions....basically just make every player eligible to score points on offense and/or defense...let Mahomes get points for intercepting a pass...if he ever did...