Peter King reports "spygate" can be put to rest... (1 Viewer)

[dansav]

Peter King SI.com – Since the commissioner whacked the Patriots and coach Bill Belichick in September 2007 for the longterm practice of taping the opposition’s sidelines, New England has played almost half the number of games (64) as it played coached by Belichick before the sanctions came down (126). So the sample size is good to determine what sort of edge Belichick and his team got from knowing what the opposing signals might have meant. And the answer I found is: not much, apparently. …check out the pre- and post-Spygate numbers, including playoff games, for the Patriots under Belichick, and you’ll see why the video practices seem so wasteful:

. G W -L Pct. Points per game

Pre-Sanction 126 87-39 .690 23.4

Since Sanction 64 49-15 .766 29.4

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...mmqb/index.html

Here we are almost a half decade later since the team got stripped of a draft pick plus $500k of Bill Belichick’s money. The Pats winning percentage is higher as well as points per game.

What are people's thoughts?

 

[kyoun1e]

Let it go.

Pats are still killing people.

KY

 

[Adebisi]

No, it can't be put to rest, because cheating is cheating, regardless of whether or not any benefit was gained from it.

 

[golfguy]

wait....wait....wait. stop the presses. peter king wants to sing and leap praise on the new england patriots? no way. i've never seen him do that. (insert annoying peter king laugh here)

 

[Kit Fisto]

Nice post Dan. Makes too much sense for this forum, however. How dare you!

Adebisi, breaking out the sarcasm all over the place today!

 

[jackdubl]

How are the points against?

 

[Andrew Garda]

It was overblown when it happened. Stupid to have done it, but stupid to have had everyone lose their mind over it as well.

Glad PK did some hard hitting research to tell us something we already knew though.

 

[shader]

It was very overblown. The lunatics that actually thought that the Patriots won because of Spygate blew it out of proportion.

Yes it was wrong, but still not near the deal it was made out to be.

 

[N Zone]

How are the points against?

This is key. Seems like P. King left out half the data.

 

[Adebisi]

How are the points against?

I don't know, but when you go from Bruschi, Vrabel, Law, Harrison, McGinest, and Seymour to Mayo, Cunningham, McCourty, Chung, Banta-Cain, and Gerrard Warren, there's bound to be some drop-off, wouldn't you say?

 

[Kenny Powers]

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

 

[belljr]

wait....wait....wait. stop the presses. peter king wants to sing and leap praise on the new england patriots? no way. i've never seen him do that. (insert annoying peter king laugh here)

Well he did leave out an important snippet from the article

Before I go on, understand I'm not attempting to minimize what the Patriots did wrong. Roger Goodell was right to take away a first-round pick and whack the Pats $750,000 for the misdeed.

 

[cvnpoka]

amazingly awful analysis. sporstwriter gonna sportswriter and homer gonna homer tho.

 

[TobiasFunke]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

 

[PatsFanCT]

But they won all of their Super Bowls by exactly three points.

 

[kyoun1e]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Yup.You people need to go see a therapist.

KY

 

[Adebisi]

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

Their 2010 offense is quite a bit different than the '07 offense, which in turn was quite a bit different than the offense they'd run in previous years.

 

[Godsbrother]

Peter King SI.com – Since the commissioner whacked the Patriots and coach Bill Belichick in September 2007 for the longterm practice of taping the opposition’s sidelines, New England has played almost half the number of games (64) as it played coached by Belichick before the sanctions came down (126). So the sample size is good to determine what sort of edge Belichick and his team got from knowing what the opposing signals might have meant. And the answer I found is: not much, apparently. …check out the pre- and post-Spygate numbers, including playoff games, for the Patriots under Belichick, and you’ll see why the video practices seem so wasteful:

. G W -L Pct. Points per game

Pre-Sanction 126 87-39 .690 23.4

Since Sanction 64 49-15 .766 29.4

Of course this may change in February but... Patriots Super Bowl Victories

Pre-Sanction 3

Since Sanction 0

 

[TobiasFunke]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Yup.You people need to go see a therapist.

KY

There's therapists that can make you so dumb that you lose your skepticism and ability to ask obvious questions? That doesn't seem very therapeutic.

 

[Neofight]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Et tu, Tobias?

 

[kyoun1e]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Yup.You people need to go see a therapist.

KY

There's therapists that can make you so dumb that you lose your skepticism and ability to ask obvious questions? That doesn't seem very therapeutic.

You guys are all like Ray Finkle.You're going to be crying "laces out" till the end of time.

He needed therapy too.

KY

 

[PatsFanCT]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Ah, where to begin...No competitive advantage was ever known. Unless you are one of those who believe Belichick broke down half an hour of game film and figured out all the defensive signals in twelve minutes of halftime to game plan for the second half rather than see what was going on in the field to make adjustments.

There is and never was any evidence whatsoever of the Patriots taping practices or the Rams walk through. That was a made up story by a reporter that came out a week before the Super Bowl, in which he later retracted with an apology. Martz said at the time that the walk through was only their red zone offense. The Rams scored a touchdown the only time they made it to the red zone during the Super Bowl. The Pats played the Rams earlier that year and the Rams, with their great offense only won by seven, and could have lost had Antwain Smith not fumbled on the way into the end zone.

And finally, the one that makes me laugh the most. Unless the video tapes showed Belichick and the Pats gang raping a thirteen year old, what else in your wildest imagination could possibly have been on those tapes? Think big and get back to me on that one.

 

[TobiasFunke]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Et tu, Tobias?

Just having my fun at the ole fishing hole.

To be completely honest though, I actually do have my doubts. I thought it was all a bunch of hooey conspiracy theory stuff pushed by Gregg Easterbrook and Pats haters ... until Steve Scarnecchia. I just have a hard time believing that this guy, completely of his own volition and with no experience in the practice, knowledge that it had been done in the past, or reason to believe that McDaniels would be interested, decided to videotape an opponents' practice and give it to Josh McDaniels. It just doesn't make any sense. He'd have to be unbelievably stupid, or deliberately committing career suicide, or both. It's far more likely that he had done it before and had reason to think McDaniels might want it.

 

[[icon]]

THere will always be people who are jealous of the Pats success and frustrated that their team just isn't as good. Among those people are a subset of people predisposed to little-man complex which often generates a whiny mentality. Those people will usually lash out with misguided fury when they should be looking at their own team's failure to address its' inadequacies instead.

I'm certain the Pats don't lose any sleep over this shallow bleating... it comes with the success.

Just keep on winnin' boys... .

 

[jackdubl]

I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football by a whopping 41 points in a year in which theyve totally changed their offensive philosophy It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

Their 2010 offense is quite a bit different than the '07 offense, which in turn was quite a bit different than the offense they'd run in previous years.

The two TE sets they are running so much now are just like the ones they used to run with... Ok, but those single TE sets where the TE is split out are just like the sets they used to run with...

 

[munchkin]

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

Then there is the opinion of those that coach the game: (Cowher) http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...-team-of-decadeThe primary objection to any discussion about the Patriots' greatness is the videotaping scandal that entangled the organization in 2007. I asked Cowher whether Spygate should taint what the Patriots accomplished.

The Spygate investigation included two victories over Cowher's Steelers in the '01 and '04 AFC Championship Games.

Cowher seems to absolve the Patriots for any wrongdoing.

"Listen, there's people stealing signals all the time before that," Cowher said. "You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows.

"You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."

As a fan of the team I hate having the sword of Damocles hanging over the team's head and as BB has proven through the years he didn't need to do it BUT....

 

[TobiasFunke]

You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals.

"No explanation whatsoever?" Goodell said the following: "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me. It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message. The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents - it is something done widely in many sports. I think it probably had limited, if any effect, on the outcome of games. That doesn't change my perspectve on violating rules and the need to be punished."What more did you want?

Maybe it's just me, but I would want an explanation for destroying the tapes that actually explains why he destroyed the tapes.

 

[Adebisi]

You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals.

"No explanation whatsoever?" Goodell said the following: "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me. It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message. The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents - it is something done widely in many sports. I think it probably had limited, if any effect, on the outcome of games. That doesn't change my perspectve on violating rules and the need to be punished."What more did you want?

Maybe it's just me, but I would want an explanation for destroying the tapes that actually explains why he destroyed the tapes.

I guess for the same reason the cops destroy drugs when they are seized? I'm not really sure what it would have taken to satisfy you here, but I am sincerely curious.

 

[kyoun1e]

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

Then there is the opinion of those that coach the game: (Cowher) http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...-team-of-decadeThe primary objection to any discussion about the Patriots' greatness is the videotaping scandal that entangled the organization in 2007. I asked Cowher whether Spygate should taint what the Patriots accomplished.

The Spygate investigation included two victories over Cowher's Steelers in the '01 and '04 AFC Championship Games.

Cowher seems to absolve the Patriots for any wrongdoing.

"Listen, there's people stealing signals all the time before that," Cowher said. "You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows.

"You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."

As a fan of the team I hate having the sword of Damocles hanging over the team's head and as BB has proven through the years he didn't need to do it BUT....

This.The End.

KY

 

[ChromeWeasel]

His reasoning leaves something to be desired. You've got a team that clearly was happy to bend/break the rules to gain an advantage. You've got accusations that they were secretly videotaping the other teams' practice, dating back to their Super Bowl win over the Rams in which they held one of the best offenses in the history of the league to 17 points. You've got their former video assistant videotaping the other team's practices this year and attempting to hand them to his boss, another ex-Patriot staffer, leading one to wonder why this assistant apparently thought videotaping opponents' practices was no big deal. You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals. And now we are supposed to forget it ever happened because the league's favorite shill tells us we should?

Lol, I love these kind of posts. People like this don't realize how much they are helping the Patriots organization.One reason is that the Patriots team still draws a lot of energy from the 'we're not respected' mentality. You'd think that's impossible if you were agnostic. Then you read laughable posts like this and realize it's just commonplace enough that Belichek can still use them to motivate his team every week. It's one reason the Pats are the class of the NFL. The team that all free agents want to be on.

The other reason is that Patriots fans love, and do mean LOVE, to argue about their team. Nothing makes a New England fan happier than defending his team. Fans up here live for it. You want to make New England fans unhappy? Tell them that you've jumped on the bandwagon. It takes all the wind out of their sails. Making up ridiculous arguments like this is just fuel for the fire. Hopefully fringe people like you keep up the good work. Trust me, you're helping the Pats. Their fans wont ever get bored of defending the team, and that mentality carries through to the teams motivation.

 

[The Great Snook]

Go Pats!!!

 

[Adebisi]

The other reason is that Patriots fans love, and do mean LOVE, to argue about their team. Nothing makes a New England fan happier than defending his team. Fans up here live for it. You want to make New England fans unhappy? Tell them that you've jumped on the bandwagon. It takes all the wind out of their sails.

So true.I've even taken to trying to convince Jets fans that there's still hope. :(

 

[cvnpoka]

"You're trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game."

lol at this

 

[TobiasFunke]

You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals.

"No explanation whatsoever?" Goodell said the following: "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me. It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message. The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents - it is something done widely in many sports. I think it probably had limited, if any effect, on the outcome of games. That doesn't change my perspectve on violating rules and the need to be punished."What more did you want?

Maybe it's just me, but I would want an explanation for destroying the tapes that actually explains why he destroyed the tapes.

I guess for the same reason the cops destroy drugs when they are seized? I'm not really sure what it would have taken to satisfy you here, but I am sincerely curious.

I believe cops destroy drugs so that they don't escape the control of the authorities and find their way back into the marketplace (they're really just creating greater demand, but we'll save that for the FFA). You think Goodell destroyed the tapes- which were out of date by the time the story broke- to keep them from getting into the wrong hands?Goodell's answer is standard issue political doublespeak. You see it all the time, for example in debates from politicians who don't want to answer the question. He repeats the question, then gives a bunch of flowery, authoritative quotes without actually answering it substantively. Here are the potential "explanations" in his quote:1. They were "consistent with what the team told him." So why not let others see that to confirm the consistency? It's consistent, therefore it must be destroyed, lest its consistency wreak havoc upon us all.2. It was the "appropriate thing to do." Says who? Is there a commissioner rulebook that directs him to destroy videotape evidence? Did his priest tell him to do it? Was there underage porn on there after the football that needed to be taken out of circulation?3. It "sends a message." To who? Other people who might videotape signals? "If you videotape signals, not only will your team have to pay a huge fine and lose a first-round pick, but you'll also be losing those blank tapes/CDs that you can buy in packs of 50 for like $20 at your local Best Buy!!! Better think twice!!!"For what it's worth, I have no idea why he did it. I'm just answering your question about his explanation.I also don't really think the Patriots have some sort of longstanding cheating policy. I'm simply saying that the Scarnecchia thing is, well, an odd coincidence, to say the least.

 

[Kenny Powers]

… I was reminded of this last Monday, when the Patriots were mercilessly pounding the Jets 45-3, and just thought how interesting it is that the Patriots are the highest-scoring team in football — by a whopping 41 points — in a year in which they’ve totally changed their offensive philosophy… It all just proves to me that Belichick used to be and still is the smartest guy in the room … and how unimportant to everything on the field the videotaping seems to have been.

Ive heard this said numerous times this year, including during the game yesterday saying how everyone will copy this offense next year, but what Ive been seeing looks like the exact same Patsies offense of the last 5+ years. Maybe slightly less deep plays because no Moss, Woodhead is basically Kevin Faulk, and the rest of the WRs are doing what their WRs have done for the past decade........Advantage or not, I'll still call them the Cheaters as long as Belichick is there.

Their 2010 offense is quite a bit different than the '07 offense, which in turn was quite a bit different than the offense they'd run in previous years.

The two TE sets they are running so much now are just like the ones they used to run with... :( Ok, but those single TE sets where the TE is split out are just like the sets they used to run with...

Theyre running sets that fit their current personnel, and Hernandez may be a TE by designation but he might as well be a WR. What I see is the Pats doing what theyve always been doing. A passing game dominated by 3 or 5 step drops that end up being quick slants or crossing routes to welker, branch, edelman just like it was to troy brown, david patten, and well - branch and welker. A bunch of passes to the RB, from the backfield/split out/screens which are mostly woodhead this year but faulk in the past. This has always been the basis of their offense, say 75-80% of their passing plays. The other 20-25% has changed based on personnel, ie when they had Moss more deep passing attempts, more targets to "TE's" this year since they only have 2 WRs they trust and both are better pass catching TE's, etc.

 

[PatsFanCT]

You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals.

"No explanation whatsoever?" Goodell said the following: "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me. It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message. The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents - it is something done widely in many sports. I think it probably had limited, if any effect, on the outcome of games. That doesn't change my perspectve on violating rules and the need to be punished."What more did you want?

Maybe it's just me, but I would want an explanation for destroying the tapes that actually explains why he destroyed the tapes.

Should he have given them back?

 

[TobiasFunke]

You've got the NFL destroying the tapes it collected from the league with no explanation whatsoever, after imposing a penalty that seems far too harsh for simply videotaping signals.

"No explanation whatsoever?" Goodell said the following: "The reason I destroyed the tapes is they were totally consistent with what the team told me. It was the appropriate thing to do and I think it sent a message. The actual effectiveness of taping and taking of signals from opponents - it is something done widely in many sports. I think it probably had limited, if any effect, on the outcome of games. That doesn't change my perspectve on violating rules and the need to be punished."What more did you want?

Maybe it's just me, but I would want an explanation for destroying the tapes that actually explains why he destroyed the tapes.

Should he have given them back?

Nah. He should have auctioned them off for charity.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

The other reason is that Patriots fans love, and do mean LOVE, to argue about their team. Nothing makes a New England fan happier than defending his team. Fans up here live for it. You want to make New England fans unhappy? Tell them that you've jumped on the bandwagon. It takes all the wind out of their sails.

So true.I've even taken to trying to convince Jets fans that there's still hope.

New England fans probably circle the wagon more so than any other team's fans in the league. It is part of the reason why we are so frustrating/annoying in the eyes of others. We have the mentality that our team can do no wrong which leads to a lot of contradicting statements when moves are made that were previously defended such as the Moss trade (everyone loved him until he was traded and then he was attacked by fans like piranhas.) We like to hear we are the best while simultaneously hearing that that we aren't good as we are. You rank New England #2 in the ESPN Power Rankings behind Atlanta and everyone will complain about why we aren't #1 and still don't get any respect while ignoring the fact that any other team's fan base would be joyed to be see their 2nd best team in football.

 

[Amused to Death]

Since the commissioner whacked the Patriots and coach Bill Belichick in September 2007...

Here we are almost a half decade later since the team got stripped of a draft pick plus $500k of Bill Belichick’s money. The Pats winning percentage is higher as well as points per game.

What are people's thoughts?

September '07 to December '10? A little over 3 years, no? That's 65% of half a decade.

 

[Adebisi]

I believe cops destroy drugs so that they don't escape the control of the authorities and find their way back into the marketplace (they're really just creating greater demand, but we'll save that for the FFA). You think Goodell destroyed the tapes- which were out of date by the time the story broke- to keep them from getting into the wrong hands?Goodell's answer is standard issue political doublespeak. You see it all the time, for example in debates from politicians who don't want to answer the question. He repeats the question, then gives a bunch of flowery, authoritative quotes without actually answering it substantively. Here are the potential "explanations" in his quote:1. They were "consistent with what the team told him." So why not let others see that to confirm the consistency? It's consistent, therefore it must be destroyed, lest its consistency wreak havoc upon us all.2. It was the "appropriate thing to do." Says who? Is there a commissioner rulebook that directs him to destroy videotape evidence? Did his priest tell him to do it? Was there underage porn on there after the football that needed to be taken out of circulation?3. It "sends a message." To who? Other people who might videotape signals? "If you videotape signals, not only will your team have to pay a huge fine and lose a first-round pick, but you'll also be losing those blank tapes/CDs that you can buy in packs of 50 for like $20 at your local Best Buy!!! Better think twice!!!"For what it's worth, I have no idea why he did it. I'm just answering your question about his explanation.I also don't really think the Patriots have some sort of longstanding cheating policy. I'm simply saying that the Scarnecchia thing is, well, an odd coincidence, to say the least.

First, I think we both can agree that Goodell handled this with the long-term financial interests of the league in mind. It was more about preserving the [perception of] integrity of the game than it was about doing the "right" or the "fair" thing. It is naive to think otherwise.1. That being said, he is the commissioner of the league. He is trusted to do what is best for the league. Why would he need to let others confirm what he's seen? And just because the American media and public were not allowed to view the tapes, is it really safe to assume that no one outside of the Patriots organization saw them, aside from Goodell? I have a hard time believing that Goodell does not have a very close (albeit very small) group of advisors that he works with and that he discussed this matter with. I would be surprised if he didn't allow them to view the tapes.2. Again, he is the commissioner - he is trusted to use his judgement to determine the appropriate course of action. I doubt that there is anything in the "commissioner rulebook" that tells him how to deal with an assistant coach tripping an opponent, but he'll have to make a judgement on that, too.3. I have no idea what he meant by "sending a message." I'd like to think that he was referring to taking away the Pats' first round pick, but that is purely assumption on my part. Obviously, destroying the tapes probably helped the Pats more than it hurt them. On the other hand, if you were an opposing coach whose signals had been taped, would you want them aired for the entire world to see? I know I wouldn't.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I believe cops destroy drugs so that they don't escape the control of the authorities and find their way back into the marketplace (they're really just creating greater demand, but we'll save that for the FFA). You think Goodell destroyed the tapes- which were out of date by the time the story broke- to keep them from getting into the wrong hands?Goodell's answer is standard issue political doublespeak. You see it all the time, for example in debates from politicians who don't want to answer the question. He repeats the question, then gives a bunch of flowery, authoritative quotes without actually answering it substantively. Here are the potential "explanations" in his quote:1. They were "consistent with what the team told him." So why not let others see that to confirm the consistency? It's consistent, therefore it must be destroyed, lest its consistency wreak havoc upon us all.2. It was the "appropriate thing to do." Says who? Is there a commissioner rulebook that directs him to destroy videotape evidence? Did his priest tell him to do it? Was there underage porn on there after the football that needed to be taken out of circulation?3. It "sends a message." To who? Other people who might videotape signals? "If you videotape signals, not only will your team have to pay a huge fine and lose a first-round pick, but you'll also be losing those blank tapes/CDs that you can buy in packs of 50 for like $20 at your local Best Buy!!! Better think twice!!!"For what it's worth, I have no idea why he did it. I'm just answering your question about his explanation.I also don't really think the Patriots have some sort of longstanding cheating policy. I'm simply saying that the Scarnecchia thing is, well, an odd coincidence, to say the least.

First, I think we both can agree that Goodell handled this with the long-term financial interests of the league in mind. It was more about preserving the [perception of] integrity of the game than it was about doing the "right" or the "fair" thing. It is naive to think otherwise.1. That being said, he is the commissioner of the league. He is trusted to do what is best for the league. Why would he need to let others confirm what he's seen? And just because the American media and public were not allowed to view the tapes, is it really safe to assume that no one outside of the Patriots organization saw them, aside from Goodell? I have a hard time believing that Goodell does not have a very close (albeit very small) group of advisors that he works with and that he discussed this matter with. I would be surprised if he didn't allow them to view the tapes.2. Again, he is the commissioner - he is trusted to use his judgement to determine the appropriate course of action. I doubt that there is anything in the "commissioner rulebook" that tells him how to deal with an assistant coach tripping an opponent, but he'll have to make a judgement on that, too.3. I have no idea what he meant by "sending a message." I'd like to think that he was referring to taking away the Pats' first round pick, but that is purely assumption on my part. Obviously, destroying the tapes probably helped the Pats more than it hurt them. On the other hand, if you were an opposing coach whose signals had been taped, would you want them aired for the entire world to see? I know I wouldn't.

I think we can agree on this, which means you and I have reached a rational conclusion on the Goodell/tape aspect of this thing. This isn't nearly as fun as me tossing out wild insinuations, though.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So Peter King is carrying water for New England. Go figure.

 

[Adebisi]

I think we can agree on this, which means you and I have reached a rational conclusion on the Goodell/tape aspect of this thing. This isn't nearly as fun as me tossing out wild insinuations, though.

I hate when that happens. More wild insinuations, please. Will provide extreme overreactions in return.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think we can agree on this, which means you and I have reached a rational conclusion on the Goodell/tape aspect of this thing. This isn't nearly as fun as me tossing out wild insinuations, though.

I hate when that happens. More wild insinuations, please. Will provide extreme overreactions in return.

You're far too reasoned and rational. I'll wait until that k1ouye guy posts again, thank you.